Boards & Commissions Committee — 2026-03-09

Attendance

Cal Finocchiaro absent · Ward 6; Bradley Freeman present · President, Ex; Elizabeth Kowal present · At-Large; Christopher Park absent · Ward 3; Kimberly Vandiver present · Vice Chair

Agenda

1. CALL TO ORDER (0:00)
2. Attendees (0:08)
3. MINUTES APPROVAL (0:20)
4. PUBLIC COMMENT (0:42)
5. APPOINTMENTS/REAPPOINTMENTS (1:10)
6. Reappointment of Robert Tullis, 8 Thurston Road, to the Historic District Commission (HDC), for a three-year term, said term to expire on the last day of February 2029. (1:28)
7. Reappointment of George Bibilos, 264 Grove Street, Melrose to the Melrose Historical Commission, for a term of three years, said term to expire the last day of February 2029. (18:32)
8. Reappointment of Darren Brown, 43 School Street, Melrose to the Historical Commission for a term of three years, said term to expire on the last February 2029. (25:40)
9. Reappointment of Joseph Hunt, 132 Mount Vernon Avenue, to the Melrose Historical Commission for a three-year term set to expire on the last day of February 2029. (32:57)
10. Reappointment of William Butler, 102 Crescent Road, to the Beebe Estate Board of Trustees for a three-year term, said term set to expire on the last day of February 2029. (48:10)
11. Reappointment of Jessica Rowcroft McKenna, 5 Marmion Road, Melrose to the Beebe Estate Board of Trustees for a three-year term, said term to expire on the last day of February 2029. (55:50)
12. Reappointment of Bryan Thorp, 77 Wentworth Road, to a five-year term as a Regular Member on the Zoning Board of Appeals; said term to expire the last day of February 2031. (56:20)
13. ADJOURNMENT (1:08:40)

Minutes

Boards & Commissions Committee Monday, March 9, 2026, 6:45 PM City Council Chamber, 1st Floor 562 Main Street, Melrose, MA 02176 MINUTES I. CALL TO ORDER Kimberly Vandiver Vice Chair Cal Finocchiaro Elizabeth Kowal Christopher Park William Bradley Freeman President, Ex Officio Member Ryan Williams Chair Attendee Name Title Status Arrived Kimberly Vandiver Vice Chair Present Cal Finocchiaro Ward 6 Absent Elizabeth Kowal At-Large Present Christopher Park Ward 3 Absent William Bradley Freeman President, Ex Present Officio Member Ryan Williams Chair Present Meeting was called to order by Chair Williams at 6:53 PM. II. MINUTES APPROVAL Boards & Commissions Committee Meeting March 2, 2026 6:50 PM Motion to Approve minutes by unanimous consent without reading them made by Chair Williams. RESULT: ACCEPTED [UNANIMOUS] AYES: Elizabeth Kowal, Kim Vandiver, Ryan Williams, Bradley Freeman III. PUBLIC COMMENT When: Mar 9, 2026 06:45 PM Eastern Time (US and Canada) Topic: Boards & Commissions Committee Meeting Join from PC, Mac, iPad, or Android: https://cityofmelrose- org.zoom.us/j/98894076215?pwd=b8ohUU6XBbEKunhqiRfm812q7RUUMy.1 1 Passcode:237508 Webinar ID: 988 9407 6215 Motion to Open public comment made by Chair Williams at 6:53 PM There were no comments on the floor or via Zoom Motion to Close public comment made by Chair Williams at 6:53 PM IV. APPOINTMENTS/REAPPOINTMENTS

A. (ID # 2026-397): Reappointment of Robert Tullis, 8 Thurston Road, to the Historic District Commission (HDC), for a three-year term, said term to expire on the last day of February 2029. Motion to Recommend made by Councilor Vandiver Seconded by President Freeman All were in favor and motion passed RESULTS: PASSED [UNANIMOUS] TO: City Council AYES: Elizabeth Kowal, Kim Vandiver, Ryan Williams, Bradley Freeman NAYS: None ABSENT: Cal Finocchiaro, Christopher Park

B. (ID # 2026-309): Reappointment of George Bibilos, 264 Grove Street, Melrose to the Melrose Historical Commission, for a term of three years, said term to expire the last day of February 2029. Motion to Recommend made by President Freeman Seconded by Councilor Vandiver All were in favor and motion passed RESULTS: PASSED [UNANIMOUS] TO: City Council AYES: Elizabeth Kowal, Kim Vandiver, Ryan Williams, Bradley Freeman NAYS: None ABSENT: Cal Finocchiaro, Christopher Park

C. (ID # 2026-379): Reappointment of Darren Brown, 43 School Street, Melrose to the Historical Commission for a term of three years, said term to expire on the last February 2029. Motion to Recommend made by Councilor Vandiver Seconded by Councilor Kowal All were in favor and motion passed 2 RESULTS: PASSED [UNANIMOUS] TO: City Council AYES: Elizabeth Kowal, Kim Vandiver, Ryan Williams, Bradley Freeman NAYS: None ABSENT: Cal Finocchiaro, Christopher Park

D. (ID # 2026-444): Reappointment of Joseph Hunt, 132 Mount Vernon Avenue, to the Melrose Historical Commission for a three-year term set to expire on the last day of February 2029. Motion to Recommend made by Councilor Vandiver Seconded by Councilor Kowal All were in favor and motion passed RESULTS: PASSED [UNANIMOUS] TO: City Council AYES: Elizabeth Kowal, Kim Vandiver, Ryan Williams, Bradley Freeman NAYS: None ABSENT: Cal Finocchiaro, Christopher Park

E. (ID # 2026-310): Reappointment of William Butler, 102 Crescent Road, to the Beebe Estate Board of Trustees for a three-year term, said term set to expire on the last day of February 2029. Motion to Recommend made by Councilor Vandiver Seconded by Councilor Kowal All were in favor and motion passed RESULTS: PASSED [UNANIMOUS] TO: City Council AYES: Elizabeth Kowal, Kim Vandiver, Ryan Williams, Bradley Freeman NAYS: None ABSENT: Cal Finocchiaro, Christopher Park

F. (ID # 2026-311): Reappointment of Jessica Rowcroft McKenna, 5 Marmion Road, Melrose to the Beebe Estate Board of Trustees for a three-year term, said term to expire on the last day of February 2029. Motion to Recommend made by Councilor Vandiver Seconded by President Freeman 3 All were in favor and motion passed RESULTS: PASSED [UNANIMOUS] TO: City Council AYES: Elizabeth Kowal, Kim Vandiver, Ryan Williams, Bradley Freeman NAYS: None ABSENT: Cal Finocchiaro, Christopher Park

G. (ID # 2026-396): Reappointment of Bryan Thorp, 77 Wentworth Road, to a five-year term as a Regular Member on the Zoning Board of Appeals; said term to expire the last day of February 2031. Motion to Recommend made by Councilor Vandiver Seconded by President Freeman All were in favor and motion passed RESULTS: PASSED [UNANIMOUS] TO: City Council AYES: Elizabeth Kowal, Kim Vandiver, Ryan Williams, Bradley Freeman NAYS: None ABSENT: Cal Finocchiaro, Christopher Park V. ADJOURNMENT The City of Melrose does not discriminate based on disability and is committed to hosting accessible meetings and events. Individuals with disabilities who need auxiliary aids and services for effective communication, written materials in alternative formats, or reasonable modifications in policies and procedures, in order to access the programs and activities of the City of Melrose or to attend meetings, should contactthe City’s ADA Coordinator, Polina Latta platta@cityofmelrose.org. Motion to Adjourn by unanimous consent made by Chair Williams at 8:01 PM All were in favor and meeting was adjourned 4 January 13, 2026 Office of the Mayor Melrose City Hall Melrose, MA 02176 Attn: Diane MacDonald Dear Ms. MacDonald, I am writing to you to express my interest in being reappointed to the Melrose Historical Commission. I have enjoyed almost 4 years of service and look forward to more productive work on behalf of the Commission. During my time on the Commission, I was very active in helping to develop and roll out the Mary Stetson Clarke Historical Recognition Award a couple of years ago. I think this award has helped raise awareness about celebrating and preserving the history of our wonderful city. Additionally, it is always a pleasure to work at our booth at the Melrose Victorian Fair and engage with our fellow Melrosians and enjoy their almost palpable excitement about the history and the wonderful homes of our community. I have also enjoyed working at a number of “Research Your Home Nights” where we make resources available to our residents so they can learn more about the history of their homes. I am also excited at the prospect of working with the Commission as we transition from an Advisory Commission to a Regulatory Commission working in partnership with the Planning Board. I look forward to helping to implementing the recent move to give the Commission “demo-delay” oversight of proposed projects. I am hopeful this can be done thoughtfully and add value to the process and not simply being viewed as obstructionist. As someone who has lived in this city 55+ years and having seen the many changes that have occurred, I feel I have a lot to offer my fellow Commissioners. I think we have a tremendous mix of backgrounds and experience on the Commission and it is my hope that I can continue to work with these wonderfully talented people. Thank you for your consideration. Very truly yours, George J. Bibilos 264 Grove Street, Melrose, MA 02176 781.888.4144 City of Melrose Office of the Mayor Attention: Diane MacDonald 562 Main Street Melrose, MA 02176 Darren J. Brown djbrown219@gmail.com 43 School Street Melrose, MA 02176 781-724-6912 14 January 2026 To Whom It May Concern, I wanted to express my interest in reappointment to the Melrose Historical Commission. During my two years on the Commission, I currently serve as the treasurer and have assisted with all events including the Research Your Home Nights, the Melrose 175th celebration and the Victorian Fair. These events have given me the opportunity to assist residents with learning more about their home and the community along with how to use the available resources for future research as well as the role of the Commission in the community. I am currently reaching out to contacts in the archaeology and historical preservation fields and awaiting word back from the Mass Historical Commission on a proposed housing development. The Commission’s mission statement is something that I strongly support and believe in. I have long been an advocate of the preservation, protection and promotion of all aspects of the region’s rich history and through education and usage can raise awareness for both present day and future generations. I have been interested in history for as long as I can remember and had pursued a career in the field serving as a museum curator for over fifteen years. I have provided advocacy for the region’s historical resources both professionally and in volunteer positions through my affiliation with area historical societies, organizations and house museums. I have an extensive history in education and collaboration with different organizations and communities. I served nine years as a member of the Town of Saugus’ Historical Commission and six years as the elected president of the Saugus Historical Society along with the two years on the Melrose Historical Commission. I strongly believe that I have the necessary interest, passion and skill set to continue in my role for another term as a valuable member of the Melrose Historical Commission. I look forward to hearing from you. Thanks in advance for your time and consideration. Sincerely, Darren J. Brown Office of the Mayor c/o Diane MacDonald – Hello Diane – My name is Joseph Hunt, and nothing would give me more pleasure than to be reappointed for another term on the Melrose Historical Commission. I have been a member of this commission for about 15 years. I have previously served as secretary and presently serve as the commission’s vice-chair. I am honored to be a member of this current commission which is the most talented and active that I’ve been associated with. During my current term, in addition to actively participating in monthly meeting discussions and planning, I initiated and presently manage a decorative historic home plaque program. These plaques are intended to not only publicly identify specific historical Melrose structures and sites, but their inherent visibility will help raise awareness of Melrose’s history. Since the historical commission ‘s existence is not well known, I submitted an idea to help raise its public awareness. The idea was to have participating downtown stores display a large commission supplied photograph showing their building or storefront appearance from about 50 years ago when the commission was established. This idea was successfully implemented by other commission members. Along with commission members, I participate in our twice-yearly “Research Your Own Home Nights” where Melrose homeowners are provided with internet and physical resources. Then they are coached in how to best use them when researching their own home. I also help man our table at the Chamber of Commerce’s yearly Victorian Fair. If I am reappointed, I intend to continue the above activities while being mindful that the assumption of Demolition Delay regulatory obligations will require some current manpower and schedule adjustments. As always, my focus will be on balancing the preservation of Melrose Historical assets while avoiding Melrose becoming a dull, uneconomic “time capsule” I hope the above information is adequate for submission to the City Council. If not, or if you have questions, please contact me. -Joseph Hunt, Vice Chair Melrose Historical Commission Beebe Estate Board of Trustees Reappointment Accomplishments Co-Chair Bill Butler; Treasurer Jessica Rowcroft McKenna List of Accomplishments for 2025 - Hosted a series of six beer garden events in 2025 - Rekeyed entire building - Decorated property for the holidays - Refurbished Council on Aging plaster walls and painted - Painted rear exterior of property - Extensive brush removal and landscaping - Continued garden maintenance and improvements - Partnered with the Creative Alliance on a new website - Hosted 67 events consisting of private parties, non-profit meetings and community educational classes - Trustees met 11 times over the past year - Added two new Trustees including a Building Manager - Finalized the Beebe Estate MOU - Added a portable air conditioner to increase Summer rental opportunities Beebe Estate Board of Trustees Reappointment Accomplishments Co-Chair Bill Butler; Treasurer Jessica Rowcroft McKenna List of Accomplishments for 2025 - Hosted a series of six beer garden events in 2025 - Rekeyed entire building - Decorated property for the holidays - Refurbished Council on Aging plaster walls and painted - Painted rear exterior of property - Extensive brush removal and landscaping - Continued garden maintenance and improvements - Partnered with the Creative Alliance on a new website - Hosted 67 events consisting of private parties, non-profit meetings and community educational classes - Trustees met 11 times over the past year - Added two new Trustees including a Building Manager - Finalized the Beebe Estate MOU - Added a portable air conditioner to increase Summer rental opportunities Bryan E. Thorp 77 Wentworth Rd. Melrose, MA 02176 9 February 2026 Jennifer Grigoraitis Mayor, City of Melrose City Hall, 562 Main St Melrose, MA 01276 Dear Jennifer, Per your office’s request, I am sending a brief list of my work during my time on the Zoning Board of Appeals. I would like to note that I am a recently retired architect, with more than 40 years of experience with a wide variety of project types from residential housing to major institutional projects. I have been a Melrose resident since 1992 and raised my 3 children (all MHS graduates) here. I have served on the ZBA since 2008. Since my last appointment to the Board in 2022: ● I participated in 116 cases, including five Comprehensive Permit Applications ● I was the Board’s representative in the unsuccessful arbitration for 28 Greenwood St.. ● I was elected Chair of Board of Appeals in April 2025 ● I participated in the Board’s adoption of Rules and Regulations for the first time ● I attended a training given by a land use attorney to review zoning laws, permits, and the re-codified zoning ordinance. I hope you find this information useful. Thank you for the opportunity to serve the residents of our community and represent Melrose as we continue to grow smartly and work to improve the lives of our neighbors. Thank you. Sincerely, Bryan Thorp

Transcript

▶ 0:00 Ryan Williams: Is the ninth. Okay, here we go. Good evening everyone. Today is Monday, March 9th, 2026, and this is a meeting of the Boards and Commissions Committee of the City, council of Melrose. I'm the chair of the committee, Ryan Williams, and I'm joined by voting members councilors Elizabeth Cowell, counselor Kim Vandiver, and President Brad Freeman, ex officio. This serves as a notice for quorum and a roll call. So the meeting will proceed in accordance with Massachusetts Open Meeting law. Tonight's meeting will be recorded, and it is also being broadcast by our partners at MTV and live streamed on their website@mmtv3.org. At this time, I wanna motion by unanimous consent to approve the minutes from the March 2nd, 2026 meeting

▶ 0:38 Ryan Williams: without reading, and I see no objections. So those minutes are approved. Next on motion by unanimous consent to open public comment. I see no objections, public comments. Now open public comments, a portion of the meeting where people can come and speak on any item on the agenda. Do we have anybody remotely for public comments? Okay, I think all of our participants are on the agenda tonight, so I don't think there's any public comment there. So I will motion by unanimous consent to close public comment and with no objections, public comment is now closed. Okay. So we have a number of reappointments tonight, and I want to say first that I very much appreciate the members of the commissions for coming tonight to be with us,

▶ 1:17 Ryan Williams: because as counselors, we frequently reappoint people so often that we never see them or know who they are or what their committee is. So every once in a while, I thought it would be good to just get people on the floor, um, to make face contact and talk. So, uh, with that said, the first, uh, reappointment on the agenda is ID number 2 0 2 6 dash 3 9 7 reappointment of Robert Tallis of eight Thurston Road to the Historic District Commission for a three year term, said term to expire on the last day of February, 2029. Uh, Mr. Telus, would you please come forward and tell us a little bit about your experience? Good evening. Thank you. Um, I thought you could just give us a brief overview of your experience on the, um, historic District Commission

▶ 2:05 and any expectations you have for the future, and let the counselors know anything that you want us to know, whether Year ahead. Okay. So I've, I've served for one term, which I think is, what, two or three years. Um, and, uh, we meet, uh, monthly as needed. So sometimes there are no petitions in front of us and we don't hold the meeting. Other times there is one or two or three. Um, so I've attended almost all of the meetings. I may have missed one, um, that we actually held to here. Um, petitions. Um, the petitions that come into us are for people who are making, um, or proposing to make visible changes visible from a public way or visible to the public, I think is the way. It's, um, the way it's worded within the historic district.

▶ 2:55 And Melrose has one historic district. It's the downtown district. It basically borders Main Street from up at, um, uh, Essex Street, I guess, um, street. The library is on and down to, um, halfway, uh, through the middle of town, just below the old savings bank building. Um, and most of the, uh, petitions that we hear are for signage changes because the district is so heavily commercial, the things that change the most are the tenants or their needs for branding and signage. So we hear a lot of, um, petitions about, uh, the need to, um, revise or, or put up a new sign sometimes that involves lighting. Um, we don't allow any internally lit signs, so, uh, signs can be lit, but the light has to be cast on the sign.

▶ 3:50 Uh, sometimes, uh, the building already has, um, gooseneck lamps or some other methodology of lighting the sign, and the petitioner is just reusing those. But sometimes they want to, they're sign to be lit at night, and the building does not have any lighting on it, so the lighting comes along with it. Um, we also hear petitions for, you know, changes in windows, uh, changes in, uh, door thresholds, um, things like that. Uh, we had one up the block where, uh, a porch that was on the back of the house but was nonetheless visible to the public was falling down. They needed to replace the entirety, two story porch. Um, so we hear those kinds of things. Uh, just recently, for instance, the YMCA wanted

▶ 4:35 to make their front entrance handicapped accessible. They had a small step at the main door. They proposed taking out that granite slab that's, you know, been there since 1893 or whatever, and replacing it with a sloped, um, granite threshold that that project has done. Any of you go to the y know that it's been in place for about a month now. So those are the kinds of things that we, that we hear, um, of concern to me in particular, um, as an individual on the board is, um, the need or the, the perceived desire. Uh, I have that desire to expand the existing districts such that it incorporates all of, uh, downtown down to the gas station and the, and the runner store. Um, even though there aren't any, um, really important

▶ 5:23 existing historical structures that are in the uncovered part, I feel very strongly that the perception of town and the street corridor that one, uh, uh, is aware of as one travels through downtown, really consists of the buildings on both sides of the street all the way to the end of that density. Um, and again, since we hear so many, um, uh, petitions about signage, whether the building is of significant historical, uh, note or not, I think it's important that we protect the overall ambience of downtown Melrose. So I'm advocating that we try and expand the, um, the historic district. Another thing that I've been working on just recently is, um, an effort to create a historic district around certain individual, um, buildings,

▶ 6:11 or small groups of buildings, um, in town. Um, this was given rise to by the, um, Benjamin Lined House at 2 44 Main Street. Uh, and the ability of, uh, of, uh, anybody who wanted to develop that more densely, uh, if they utilize the chapter 40 B, um, to really densify the site. Uh, and in the act of doing that, either demolish, um, or hopefully preserve for relocation, um, the existing Benjamin Line House, which is a very historic house occupied by a very, uh, a person of historic note, uh, in the history of the town of Melrose, and really even in the founding of our country, because he, uh, fought, um, uh, and in the, in the battle, the shot heard around the world was fired in Lexington and conquered.

▶ 7:08 Um, so I prepared a, uh, uh, historic district study. Um, the process as the city council should know, and if don't, if they don't, they're gonna find out very soon, um, is that the Historic District Commission prepares an initial study. We submit it to the planning board of Melrose and to mass historic. Both of those boards have 30 days to respond. We then take their responses, if any, into consideration, we, um, choose or not to modify our initial study. Then we present the revised, um, study, uh, taking those comments into, um, into account, um, to the city council and the city council votes as to whether that historic district should be created. Um, as you also know, separate from the Historic District Commission,

▶ 7:59 there was an effort to, um, pass a demolition delay, uh, permit, which you guys voted on, I think, two meetings ago. And that's just another protection that we can have for some of the historically significant, um, uh, culturally significant and architecturally significant infrastructure in the town. So I'm interested in all of those things, and that's why I volunteered to serve on the board. And basically that's what I've been doing for the past couple years. Thank you very much. Any questions or comments from counselors? President Freeman? Yep. Um, thank you for, for all you've done for, for the commission and for Melrose. One question I have is, as you're talking about expanding the district of downtown, is that consistent with

▶ 8:39 Kimberly Vandiver: what other cities and towns have done with non historic components of a longer corridor? Yes. Okay. Short answer is yes. Yep. Thank you. Uh, Councillor, um, sorry. Councillor Vandiver. Thank you. Um, thank you for coming tonight, and I really appreciated, um, your writeup and all the writeups we have in the packet. Um, I, this was a change we made a year ago to, um, have reapp appointees give us more information about what they, um, have been working on. And, um, and I think everybody has really risen to the occasion, and I love reading all of the detail and the work that goes into these boards and commissions. Um, I had a question about, I had attended one of your meetings, um, would've been I think December, uh,

▶ 9:26 Kimberly Vandiver: and there there was a question about signage, uh, for a dog grooming business that had come up. And there was some discussion at the time, uh, about the fact that this business owner hadn't been aware of, um, what they needed to take into consideration with this sign. So they'd gone ahead and purchased a, purchased a sign that turned out to be non-conforming. Um, and there was some discussion about what could be done to make sure that anyone issuing permits was aware anyone was, you know, working on signs, was aware so that, you know, the rework could be prevented and you could get ahead of it. Is there, um, I'm just curious if there's any update on, um, what, you know, somehow inserting yourselves earlier into

▶ 10:08 the process or making sure that permits get approved with this? So, it's a problem. It, it, it's, it's a re recurring problem in the three years that I've been on the board. Um, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the act of being notified generally happens when somebody applies for a building permit. And the people at inspection services are supposed to look at the permit, determine whether the building that is the permit is being pulled for, is in or not in the district. If it's in the district, they're supposed to tell the permit, applic, key, applicate, appli, whatever they are the applicant that they have to, um, come before us, uh, in order to get permission for, as I say, any publicly visible changes.

▶ 10:56 Um, two different things tend to happen. Either, um, inspection services just misses it. Um, to be quite frank, I don't think they're as good as they should be and as zealous or as aware as they should be. Um, Lori, uh, Masa has had some discussions with them trying to focus them on really looking at the address, making sure that, um, it, it, um, if it's in the historic district that the applicant is told that they have to come see us first and not to issue the building permit until they have the sign off letter from us. It happens. Sometimes it doesn't happen. The other thing that happens is, um, when somebody applies for a permit and they're in the district, or they apply for a permit in general, um,

▶ 11:43 the permit doesn't always spell out everything that the applicant intends to do, um, as a part of the course of their work. Um, sometimes it's because they have a contractor and the contractor just says, you know, electrical work and it doesn't say adding lights to the outside of the building, for instance. So electrical work in general would not fall under our purview, adding lights to the outside of the building would, so ISD doesn't know that they're going to do something. The other thing that happens, particularly with signage, and this is just, it's the industry, the signage industry, is people who are in the sign business. One of the things that they do as part of their business is they procure permits from the cities

▶ 12:26 and jurisdictions where they're erecting the sign. So what a sign guy will say is, don't worry, I'll handle it for you. And then they do whatever they normally do or wanna do. They don't necessarily come in for a separate permit. The building permit doesn't say, oh, by the way, I'm erecting a sign because the applicant has been told by the signage guy, don't worry, I'll handle it. And so the permit never says that there's a new sign there or revised signs or whatever. And the other thing that the signage industry does is the people who erect the signs also design the signs. You know, and they have little software packages where they can, you know, design signs and, you know, they're pretty good, but they're not great.

▶ 13:11 Um, and so there's nobody looking over the shoulder saying, is this sign appropriate for the building on which it is mounted? Is it too big? Is it too small? Is it too tall? When it should be wider in terms of proportion? You know, should it be a blade sign that sticks off the, the, they just don't think of all the various options that a real, uh, real, it's a bad way of saying it. A uh, it's a pejorative way of saying it that a, uh, an architect or a graphic designer, or a true signage designer would consider. So they just go to their bag of tricks and they say, you know, we've done this before. It's been successful. How, what do you think the owner says, that's great. He says, don't worry, I'll take care of all your permits.

▶ 13:53 Next thing you know, the sign is installed. Somebody drives by at night, the sign's internally lit and it's too big. And we're like, well, what happened? And the owner is thinking, you know, what happened? I, I paid $5,000 for this sign, and now I have to take it down. So, um, it's a problem. It really, um, requires, I think everybody, um, but particularly the applicants 'cause it's the, it's, it's the, it's the responsibility the applicant to understand the, um, the regulations under which they are operating, uh, to be aware. But it, it's, it's just, I don't wanna say constantly, but regularly falls through the cracks. Yeah. Yeah. And then we don't have really much, unless it just happens to be wonderful,

▶ 14:37 in which case we say, you should have come to see us first. But it happens to be wonderful, so we'll approve it. But lately, there's some ones that don't happen to be wonderful, and, and we've sort of, as a, as a commission said, you know, we can't just, you know, have people ask for permission anymore, ask for forgiveness anymore. They have to ask for permission. So we're gonna say, no, you gotta take the sign down and reapply. And the dog one, um, in particular, they were going to reapply this month, and they don't have their act together yet. So they've, um, requested a, um, uh, uh, a Okay. Thank. Yeah. Thank you for all of the, the context around that. Yeah, I, I, I think it would be great if there's a way

▶ 15:16 Kimberly Vandiver: to continue to look at, you know, whether it's the inspection services or perhaps reaching out to all of the, um, the owners of the buildings who, who rent them out or, you know, somehow getting ahead of it and trying to Yeah. Continue to get people in front of you before they already do the work on the sign. I think that would be helpful. But I, I appreciate that. It's a problem. And yeah, you Know, another good example is the Coolidge and, and the people who manage the Coolidge should be congratulated 'cause they've been a joy to work with, and they were forthright, but, you know, they're just, they're going through a huge air conditioning, um, program. Now, those apartments don't have any air conditioning,

▶ 15:52 so they're adding air conditioning. You would think, what do I need to see the Historic District Commission for if I'm adding it air conditioning to, you know, to my units. But of course, air conditioners require rooftop units and ground mounted condensing units, and they're huge. And for that particular building, they're really quite large. And they had, or originally proposed to put a couple of 'em right out in front of the building between the building and Main Street. We were aghast, as you might imagine. Thank you very much. No further questions. Okay. Thank you. I just have one quick clarifying question. To go back to the expanding of the business district. If that were to happen, would all the existing

▶ 16:30 businesses within the new corridor be grandfathered into all variances? Uh, so I would hope not, but it really depends on the city council as to the language that they enact. Um, I would hope that they would not be grandfathered in. Okay. I, I'd like to have a further conversation about that, just 'cause to me that's a lot of expenses on, on some of our business owners. It can be. Um, you know, another good example is the, um, the new, uh, uh, Chinese restaurant and Asian restaurant that went in, um, on this side of the street, two blocks down, just two doors below the bank. And they technically are not part of the district. And when their sign went in, it had a large placard on the face of the sign that said

▶ 17:15 who the sign manufacturer was. And that's one of the things we don't allow. Um, and so I asked Lori if she would voluntarily a, would politely ask them to voluntarily take that sticker off the face of the sign. Mm-hmm. And they did. Um, and it's a much better looking sign than it was when it, you know, in the first three days after it went up. Um, but, you know, I don't want to see s and p sign company prominently displayed on the face of the sign. And I would hope that most Melrose residents don't wanna see that up and down Main Street either. Hmm. Okay. Thank you. Um, thank you for all the information I've learned quite a bit, and it's given me a lot of context. Uh, so at this time, I'll ask if anyone has any more

▶ 17:59 Ryan Williams: questions, and if not, what is the will of this committee? I'll make a motion to recommend. Okay. Second. Okay. Motion to recommend by Councilor Vandiver. Seconded by President Freeman. All in favor? Aye. Aye. Any opposed? No one's opposed. Okay. I passes. Thanks very much. You do not have to be present for the council order that goes through. Thank you very much for coming. Next up we have, uh, ID number 2 0 2 6 dash 3 0 9 reappointment of George Biblios of 2 64 Grove Street, Melrose, to the Melrose Historical Commission. And, uh, you, you're at Grove and, uh, Faxon or close to it? Oh, yeah. Yes. Yeah. I used to live at Malvern, um, Malvern and Fax. And you have the 17, you have the flag out in front and everything.

▶ 18:45 Ryan Williams: I do. Yeah, that's right. I thought I recognized you from out there. Um, thank you so much for coming to talk to us today. Uh, I would like to open the floor up to counselors if any questions Point of order. Did we wanna, um, see if you guys comments before I have? Oh, sure. Do you have any comments to introduce or describe your Experience? Just real briefly? I, obviously George Ello reside at 2 64 Grove Street. I've been on the, uh, Melrose Historical Commission now for four years. Um, um, lived in Melrose since we moved here. My family moved here in 1970. Um, love this, love the city and the way it's evolved and, uh, you know, enjoy being a part of that through the, through the Historical Commission.

▶ 19:29 Um, a lot of interesting initiatives, obviously with everything that's been going on with the Benjamin Line House and the, uh, the demo delay that's, that been bestowed upon, uh, the historical Commission. And I think that's something we're gonna be getting our arms around and how to administer that. As we also transition potentially from a, uh, I, I believe an advisory commission to a regulatory commission. Um, we've, uh, we've rolled out the Mary Stetson Clark Award. She was a prominent historian in the city. We've awarded that to some prominent historians in the city, uh, the past couple of years. Um, uh, we, we have the, the Home sign program, which I'll let one of my colleagues talk about that since

▶ 20:12 Kimberly Vandiver: he, he's, he runs that. But a lot of interesting initiatives, uh, obviously the Benjamin Line House, and that has been first and foremost, but, uh, enjoy serving on the commission. Uh, feels like it's a way for me to give back a little bit to this town that I love with this city feels like a town, but this city that I love so much. So Bye. Any questions? Uh, and as best I can. Sure. Thank you very much and thanks for the point of order. Appreciate that. Um, councilor Vanderberg, Thank you. Uh, to your point, I believe we're the smallest city before any smaller we would be a town, um, in Massachusetts. Yeah. Yeah. Um, I, uh, thank you so much for your service and, and everything that you've done.

▶ 20:50 Kimberly Vandiver: Um, I, I'm also particularly interested in the Benjamin Lined House, given that it's in Ward five, which is my ward. Um, and as well as seeing how the rollout goes of, um, of the demolition delay in that whole process that, that we're gonna move forward with. Um, I was curious about, you know, as we've, as the council in the last few months, has talked about historical houses a little bit and, and things like that. Um, I know that they're, they're really essential part of the fabric of our community, and a lot of people feel really passionately about them. But I feel that, and, and we have, as you mentioned now, you know, the placard the sign program and everything like that. Um, I think it would even be great, you know, to find

▶ 21:29 Kimberly Vandiver: some places have Walking tours. I don't know if you have any thoughts or if the commission has at any point discussed hosting, walking Tours or other events to kind of bring more people up to, you know, familiarity with important houses and, and locations within the city, things like that. Yeah. In the past, uh, Melrose has had walking tours and, um, that has, we actually have, we have been talking about that, about, uh, some potential walking tours and maybe biking tours as well. So that's certainly on our radar. Um, uh, you know, it's, Melrose is not very big and it's certainly a very walkable city. And, uh, there are, I don't think people realize how many historical sites and how many historical homes there are, you know,

▶ 22:10 Kimberly Vandiver: peppered throughout the city. Um, I think a few of us learned more about that during the pandemic as we walked. And we walked and we walked. 'cause we had nothing else to do. But, um, yeah, no, that's certainly something that, uh, the commission's looking at. And, uh, I think potentially over the, you know, the upcoming months, you know, we'll be maybe trying to do, I, I think there was some, they wanted to take a look what the old program was, and maybe I don't try, try to mimic it, but try to do something, um, because there, there's clearly some interest in that. Certainly. Yeah. That's great. I love the biking idea too. That'd be fun. Yeah. Thank you very much. No other questions. Okay. Any other counselors have questions?

▶ 22:44 Ryan Williams: I have, uh, a quick question. Um, first I wanted to say that I haven't been to it, but I love the idea of these, like, get to know your house nights. Oh, yeah. Can you hear Me? Sorry. Oh, yeah, yeah. That's what coming up. Yeah. Yeah. I have an 1860s, uh, colonial, and I wanna learn more about it, but I also would like to find out about historic renovation contractors that specialize in historic preservation and renovation. And that's a particular topic of interest that I have, um, with regard to like how residents can learn to, uh, gain access to people who are in the trades, who specialize in preservation as opposed to replacement and would, would offer preservation or restoration first instead of offering a replacement.

▶ 23:27 So I, I'd love to come to the, to the next, uh, I'd love to have you actually, the renovation piece you mentioned is interesting because we, you know, as I said, we, we rolled out the, the Mary Stetson Clark Award and we've recognized a few people for their, uh, the commitment in, uh, to preserving history in Melrose. But I think that was another angle we were thinking about, talking about, about people who have done significant historical preservations in their homes. And that might be another angle for this award, but to your point, um, but to your point, uh, you know, raising awareness about, you know, uh, contractors who do a good job in this area and whatnot. So we have no point well taken. Yeah.

▶ 24:05 Ryan Williams: So it's certainly something worth talking about. Awesome. Um, and I wanted to ask also, ha, I, I understand that you all have interacted with the demo delay ordinance. Have you already had a meeting about this with anybody at the Lion House, or has that not occurred yet? So the, uh, The, the developers came in, they made a presentation in terms of what was going on there. They, they showed us the proposed, um, development. It was, it was really strictly informational. We asked questions. I, I don't know if at that point we actually had demo delay or not. It was, we was sort of in limbo. Um, but it was, it was a cordial meeting. Um, you know, at the end of the day, I, I, I would like to think that demo delay is going

▶ 24:46 Ryan Williams: to be a tool in our toolbox rather than some sort of a blunt instrument, to be quite honest with you. So, um, in, in efforts to preserve history in the city. So I appreciate that. Thank you. That was something I heard as well from Housing Advocates about it to, to consider it a tool in the toolbox. And I would encourage you and the other members of the commission, if you have feedback for the council on the ordinance and the way that it's hitting real world, uh, conditions to let us know, because we can make amendments or take suggestions anytime. Thank you. Thank you, sir. What is the will of the committee make a motion to Recommend? Second. Okay. Councilor Freeman, councilor President Freeman makes a motion

▶ 25:21 Ryan Williams: to recommend Councilor Vandiver seconds. All in favor? Aye. Aye. Any opposed? No. Okay. That passes. Thank you very much. Appreciate it. Next step, we have, Uh, 2 0 2 6 3 7 9 reappointment of Darren Brown, 43 School Street, Melrose, to the Historical Commission for a term of three years, said term to expire on the last February last day of February, 2029. Thank you. Same spiel. Anything you'd like to share, please do. Uh, Yeah. Uh, good evening. Um, my name's Darren Brown. Uh, as was said, I live at 43 School Street. I've lived in Melrose for 16 years. Um, my wife is born and raised in Melrose, and, um, after we started our family and lived in another community, um, came back here for, uh, our kids to go to school.

▶ 26:08 Um, I've been on the commission for two years. I serve as the treasurer. Um, and one of the big things that we've been working on is with regards to, um, awareness and education, and as you were mentioning with regards to, um, research Your Home night. Mm-hmm. So that's one of the things that we've been having, um, two events per year, um, in which every time we've done 'em now over the past several years, they've been completely full. And, um, it's just an opportunity to, you know, give people, um, the tools to use to learn more about their homes, uh, whether it be, you know, historic fire, ma fire maps, um, city directories, historic photographs. We're able to use all of these different items to, you know,

▶ 27:01 give people more information and kind of lead them not only these physical items that we have, but other places that they can go. So, you know, from here, you know, you can use Ancestry, you can go to, um, the Registry of Deeds, um, some of which some stuff's online, some stuff you have to go there and look at physical copies, but just, you know, kind of give them the, the road, the roadmap to be able to learn more about their property. And so that's one of the big things that we work on. And I know you mentioned, like with the, with the age of your home. Um, so a lot of times, like with the old homes, like, you know, you can find a lot of information and sometimes people have, you know, newer homes

▶ 27:41 that may only be, you know, 50 years old. But in a case like that, sometimes even just looking through city directories, you are able to, you know, provide all this information for people. So, you know, not only did they find out who lived in their home and when they lived there, um, did they own the house? Did they rent it, but were they the first home on their block that had a, a telephone, you know, stuff like that, that, you know, even though the home, the home may not be super old, it's able to give them all these little, you know, bits of information so they're able to make that connection to their home. So that's one of the things that, uh, I enjoy doing is getting out and talking to people, um, with regards to the, you know,

▶ 28:21 the, the history aspect and, um, just promoting, you know, the history of the community and with regards to, um, walking tours and bike tours, that's something that, um, definitely interested in. Um, you know, we've talked about it as George had mentioned at the commission level, and I've, um, you know, created and, you know, led both walking and biking tours in other communities for different organizations and the POC service and stuff like that. And so that's definitely something that, uh, I'm interested in. Um, and, you know, with regards to the biking pot, is that, you know, yeah, Melrose is a, is a small city geographically, but you know, sometimes you may have all these great places that you want, you want to talk about

▶ 29:06 Bradley Freeman: that all have a connection, but maybe a foul walk, but, you know, hop on the bike and you can hit all those things in an hour and, um, walk out with all this great information. Thank you so much. Yeah, no problem. President Freeman. Um, one, one question I have, and, and you know, I was reading your letter and you referenced the melrose hundred 75th celebration. Mm-hmm. Do you have, does your permission have any interaction with our public schools? Do you go in, I know Winthrop, for example, is celebrating its hundredth year next year. Has the historical commission ever gone in, talk to the students about the founding of their school, help them research that, or even done one of, of your researcher home nights as part

▶ 29:43 of a curriculum for a classroom? I can see fourth and fifth graders really getting into that and learning more about it, and getting more excited about learning the history of Melrose. Uh, we haven't, but something that I think would be great is not only, you know, going and, and talking to the students at the different schools about, um, you know, the history of their neighborhood, the history of their school is, you know, somehow like letting them create almost like an exhibit in their school. So like, you know, every school be able to create something like that would be interesting because then, you know, they have more ownership in this school besides, it's a, a place where they go five days a week, you know, to learn.

▶ 30:22 Um, they actually have that connection. So I think, you know, doing something like that, being able to talk to the students, um, you know, and not only the elementary schools, but you know, middle school and high school as well, um, I think would be a, a great thing to do. And, you know, I'm definitely on board for doing something like that. Okay. Let's, let's, let's have a further conversation. I'd love to partner with you and just try to help, help Yeah, absolutely. You know, introduce you some of the schools and see what we can do there. Yeah. And in, in the past, um, you mean like, I worked as a museum curator and during that time and stuff, like, I had partnered with, um, you know, the community and stuff where I was, um, with the schools

▶ 31:00 Kimberly Vandiver: and, you know, um, basically worked with, um, at that time was all third graders, um, but every third grader in the school, in the, in the community, um, you know, basically went out and talked to them and, um, they created exhibits and stuff with me. That's Great. Thank You. Yeah, not a problem. Councillor Vanderberg. Thank you. Uh, that does discussion kind of star sparked for me as well. I would love to actually know more about, not at a home level, but a neighborhood level. What, what we see historically in the city, and maybe even have, you know, a map of this area was industrial, this area was orchards, this area was, you know, here's where the first school was and, and things like that.

▶ 31:41 Kimberly Vandiver: Um, I, I believe, you know, in things I've encountered, my neighborhood used to be an orchard and have a stream running through the bottom. And it's, it's kind of neat to kind of think back through that. And, um, I think that'd be another really nice lens to see the Melrose history through, if, if that's something that you end up working on. Yeah, Absolutely. And I think just even, you know, your your street name, where does it come from? You know, um, as I said, I live on School Street, it's right near Winthrop, but it's, you know, it, you know, was named after a school that was there prior to the Winthrop, you know what I mean? So just like being able to, you know, talk to people and stuff about like, where the street names come from

▶ 32:21 or, you know, I know earlier, um, several people talked about, you know, Benjamin lined and talking about like, you know, line Street, you know, where's the name come from, and just being able to, to talk with people and stuff and just, you know, share those stories with them. And that way they also walk away learning more and knowing, um, you know, basically having more of a connection within the neighborhood and their community. Thank you. That, that's wonderful. I, uh, I'd like to make a motion to recommend Second. Okay. Motion to recommend by Councillor Van Devin, seconded by Councillor Coleman. All in favor? Aye. Aye. Any opposed? I passes. Thank you so much. No, very Welcome. Thank you very much for

▶ 32:57 Ryan Williams: your time. Next up we have ID number 2 0 2 6 4 4 4. The reappointment of Joseph Hunt of 1 32 Mount Vernon Avenue to the Melrose Historical Commission for three year terms, had to expire on the last day of February, 2029. And hello, Mr. Hunt, and thank you so much for your time tonight. Well, I guess I'm the fourth person to appear. I guess that means I'm batting cleanup. Take it. Well, anything you wanna share with us about your experience or tell us about, um, please do. Well, I'd be glad to because it's been a very, uh, illuminating and exciting time for myself where my parents moved to Melrose after the war, which for me is World War ii. And that was about 1947. And I have to say, I really wasn't

▶ 33:55 that interested in Melrose's history very much until I, 30 years ago, happened to buy a house on Mount Vernon Avenue, which was 136 years old now. And so that got me interested in the work that the commission did. And so about 15 years ago, I joined the commission. And in those days, uh, we had, I would say probably negative visibility. Uh, Melrose wasn't built out 110% or so like it is now, so there was no real, um, pressure onto preserving and taking care of, uh, historical heritage, particularly physical heritage with respect to structures. So our main purpose was to submit information to the Massachusetts Historical Commission, uh, which would put it in a database called ris, Massachusetts,

▶ 35:05 uh, cultural resource, something or other. Uh, and there are about 703, uh, Melrose, uh, houses in that database. And if you are interested in researching your home, one of the first things to do would be just to see if someone during those years has actually researched your home and it's on the database. Just put MA into Google and, uh, go to the sites. It's very easy to navigate. Uh, the other thing we did is, was already mentioned, we participated in the Victorian Fair, and we had your research, your own home night, which we held in the library where we could expose participants to the city directories, uh, all the maps we had, as well as giving them, uh, some of our own personal hints and experience.

▶ 36:07 However, since those days has been a big shakeup in the commission for a variety of reasons. And I have to say that the people who constitute the historical commission today, uh, and I'm using a judgment of on the last 15 years of my participation on the commission, the group we have now is the most exciting and knowledgeable and self-motivated group that I've been, uh, privileged to work with as far as my own personal participation for about 10 years. I was the secretary. Uh, my main problem with that was reading my notes because I wasn't that good on the computer yet. Uh, today for about the past six or eight months, I am the vice chair. Now, with respect to what's happening currently, first

▶ 37:17 of all, I wanna compliment the library and the people responsible for getting the library funds to do this is to digitize so many of the resources that they have. Uh, in particular, the newspapers have been a, a wealth of information, and they're currently in the process of digitizing the city directories, which are absolutely indispensable. And this is important work because it not only makes it physically, uh, more easy for Melrose residents to access these resources, but it has the fantastic advantage of being searchable. Now, you don't have to go through 400 pages looking for Eldridge Goss or, or one of the famous families or information about your own home. You can just plug your street in and, and do a great search.

▶ 38:16 Uh, so we're very happy with the, uh, what's going on at the library. Secondly, I want to compliment those folks who have worked on generating a demolition delay document. I've done two things. One is I've examined the document that was the council item, I think back in October, October 21st, I think. And I have to say, uh, comparing it to some of the demolition delay documents that are in adjacent towns, like, oh, I looked at Medford, Malden sga and there was another one I can't recall right now. But ours is by far the most organized, well, it's still a little bit, but it's way better organized than some. And from my own experience, while I haven't ever had to participate in a demolition delay event

▶ 39:31 over the years, I've had a lot of contractors work on my house, and I hear little rumors here and there around town about demolition delay from contractors. So I have kind of an inventory of anecdotal information, and I can say they, they really don't respect demolition delay. And over the decades, they've have a lot of, uh, nefarious ways of defeating the purpose, and in particular, by reinterpreting definitions and, uh, doing schemes that sound like they're appropriate, like examining the structure to make sure it's safe. And, oh, gee, uh, finding things. Uh, one of the more popular ones is a demolition by neglect. Anyway, there was a whole series of those things, and I was very happy to see that

▶ 40:38 those are called out in the demolition delay document from October 21st. And there were penalties, uh, at the end of the document. So, uh, I'm really happy bet how things are going between all the personnel on our commission, the digitizing that's going on at the library, and the, uh, in my view, very satisfactory. I'm sure there's some tweaks that need, but very satisfactory, uh, demolition delay document that I think is better than others. So I also, uh, finally want to say I'm very glad the confidence that the council has expressed in us, uh, to, uh, include us as one of the team organizations, uh, with respect to demolition, delay, and preserving as many of the, uh, historical assets we have.

▶ 41:43 Elizabeth Kowal: So with that, I'll entertain any questions you have. I am having a little trouble with the echo in the room from time to time, so, Okay. Thank you. Uh, Councillor Coleman. So I just wanna thank you for all of the work that you've done. You are quite an inspiration, and it's really just lovely to see you here. And I didn't know if you were gonna throw your fellow counselors under the bus. I was a little nervous about where you were going with that comment, so I'm so happy to hear that you are really enjoying your time. Um, I live in a very old house as well. I live in the Finney Sprague homestead that was built in 1798. So, uh, this has been really fun for me to hear. I did not even know about the learn about your house,

▶ 42:18 Elizabeth Kowal: although the tenants who had the house before me, the ARDS certainly left me a lot of information, including the old walking tours. Um, I have the, those pamphlets. So, um, but what I wanted to just, uh, echo what, uh, Councillor Williams has said earlier is when you talk about the demolition delay and sort of some loopholes that people may be finding, or ways to sort of lessen what the intention was, please do speak up about that, because obviously, when it was drafted, there was intent behind it to help, um, with all of this. And so I really just wanted to reiterate that point again, is that it's new. Um, and so there's gonna be ways that we need to perhaps strengthen it, perhaps change it, perhaps, amen.

▶ 42:58 Elizabeth Kowal: Whatever it is. And so I would just ask, um, that you do, if you are hearing these things or you are witnessing these things that you don't stay quiet about it. I don't think you will, but that you bring, bring it back to us, because if we didn't get it a hundred percent right, I think the goal, and, and, you know, Councillor Williams was helpful in drafting that to begin with. Um, we wanna get it right and make sure that it's intent, it's played out in what its intent was meant for. Well, thank you very much. Very ahead. Happy to provide feedback. Yes, thank You. Thank you. I just wanna echo Councilor Kowal, um, thanks and appreciation to you. And one thing one of your colleagues had mentioned,

▶ 43:34 Bradley Freeman: I I wanted to reference it was the sign program that you have as someone who lives in a house from the 1950s. I don't have the honor of having one on my house, but I loved when I was knocking doors going up and, and seeing those signs and just the pride those individuals have in their house. And so thank you for, for that effort, and I think it really does help tell the story of Melrose. So thank you. Well, you may find this surprising folks, but I actually have a couple of applications with me. Uh, if you're interested in a historic fact, 75 years old or or older, Okay. I'll take one. Yeah, I would take one. Yeah. All right. Um, councilor Vandiver, Thank you. Can you, uh, I, I am familiar with the sign program to some extent.

▶ 44:17 I haven't participated in it, um, but I believe there's some research that's done and you come back with a sign that says the name of the original owners and their occupation. Is that correct? You have, uh, two areas where you input what's going to be on the plaque. Uh, the top one is a little factoid about your house. Uh, I happened to be working on my own application and, uh, in this case it was the owner original occupant was from a, the Goss family, famous Goss family, Willis c Goss, son of Curtis Goss. And, uh, it's interesting, quick aside to read in the newspapers where they refer to him as Willie, but, uh, so that's one thing I put on the top line, Willis c Goss. But you can also add another factoid on a second line,

▶ 45:23 in my case merchant. But you can put almost anything you want about your house. We have one that was, uh, uh, a laboratory at one time to investigate gypsy moss. And so form a site of gypsy moth laboratory. Uh, so anything like that in the application, uh, shows four plaques, kind of different examples of things you could put on those little factoid lines. Now you may say, gee, my house is maybe old and venerable and has seen a lot of the Melrose scene over the years, but I really, The facts I found are kind of boring. So what do you do? Uh, well, I think what we propose is you put the official name of your house, which is your address, and I, I tell you the, uh, the prime delivery trucks will certainly appreciate that.

▶ 46:32 So, um, and, uh, then of course, what everybody wants, and in the biggest letters, all nice and incised and painted black on a white plaque, uh, is the date. And then finally, uh, since we vet your application, uh, we have Melrose Historic Commission as kind of a IMP tour, if you will. Great. Thank you so much for explaining. And I, I, that was actually one of my questions and why we hadn't necessarily done it yet. I wasn't sure what goes on that line and what if we find out that their occupation wasn't very interesting or nothing much to put there. So that, that's very helpful to know about the options. Sure. It could be the architect or the builder or what social events were happening. I know for example, um, for Rus Hinchey

▶ 47:34 Ryan Williams: down in the corner of Wick and, uh, west Wyoming Avenue, if that was still around, that was a social center for that whole area. So in a lot of houses have turned out to be, uh, neighborhood clubhouses, especially if there's a lot of, uh, children in the neighborhood. So that would be something. Thank you very much. Such a street clubhouse. Absolutely. Sure. Thank you. Um, Can I make a motion to recommend? Yeah, sure. Uh, motion by Councillor Vandiver, seconded by Councillor Coleman. All in favor? Aye. Aye. Aye. Any opposed for having me? Thank you. Okay, thank you. Um, so how about we have ID 2 0 2 6 3 1 0 and ID 2 0 2 6 3 1 1. This is Mr. William Butler and Ms. Jessica Crot McKenna, come up together since there's two

▶ 48:28 Ryan Williams: of you and there's two chairs. Thank you, gentlemen for coming. Thank You. Thank you. Uh, so we will, I think we'll just vote on them individually 'cause we're all in person. It's easy and fast, but you guys can share your experiences together and tell us a little bit about what it's been like to be on the commission or on the trustees. Sorry, the board. Go for it. Okay. Uh, so my name is Jessica. I live at five Marion Road, and I've been a Millrose residence since 2012. I've been on the board of trustees for the BD estate since 2015. I just had to look that up 'cause it's been so long. I couldn't quite remember. Um, I was invited to join by a former colleague of mine who I used to work with at the Massachusetts Historical Commission.

▶ 49:22 I'm a preservation planner by profession, and so I was brought in to help guide and advise on some of the historic preservation practices with regards to maintenance of the BBB estate. Uh, the BBB estate, as you may or may not be aware, was listed on the National Register of Historic Places in 1980. And one of our jobs as the board of trustees is to maintain that, uh, building to the best of our ability and to meet the Secretary of Interior standards. We've done a number of things over the past couple years. Most recently this past year, we've, um, installed a new master key system for safety. We've done some plaster work and some interior painting, some exterior painting coming up this spring.

▶ 50:08 Uh, it looks like we're gonna be funding some gutter work. We do have wood gutters on the building, and also looking at replacing our back door, which is the accessible entrance to the facility, and ideally providing one of those electronic buttons to get in. That's pretty critical since it is the Office of the Council of Aging. Hmm. Yep. Great. Uh, my name's Bill Butler. I've been on the, the board of trustees since 2015, uh, as well. Uh, I'm the co-chair. I've been the co-chair for about, uh, four years, I guess, something like that. Um, and if you don't know much about the bb it's a place where we has tenants, long-term tenants, uh, friends of the Fells is there, Melrose Alliance against, uh,

▶ 50:54 violence, uh, the COA as well. And then we have, uh, special private events that we, um, rent the, the facility out too for various, you know, uh, bridal showers, baby showers, weddings, things like that. Uh, on Saturdays, um, the BB Association, which is comprised of basically an artist association, they have their art shows on Saturday. Um, and we're just right now undergoing efforts on kind of a, a, uh, having a larger scale marketing effort. We're just about to kick off on social media, uh, for renting the facility, renting, uh, the building as well. Um, and, um, I think that's, yeah, pretty much wraps it up and what we do. Thanks so much. Yeah. Any questions? Uh, president Freeman, Um, you know, just talking about some, some event rentals

▶ 51:43 Bradley Freeman: and, and looking to maximize the use of the beautiful building. I saw your new website. I think the website's great. I think it's really helpful to learn more about the PB that way. And saw that you installed air conditioners to help attract additional summer rentals. Is there anything else as a city we could be doing to help make the building more accommodating to increase rental opportunities? Or do you feel like you're pretty much maximizing rental opportunities right now? Great question. So we're in the process of talking to a contact at the city of, of George. I can't remember about installing wifi. Like that's kind of a big thing as we get people inquiring, they want to do kind of multimedia events and things like that.

▶ 52:19 Kimberly Vandiver: We don't, we, we kind of say, you gotta work off a cell signal or, you know, um, a neighboring signal, uh, that you might be able to tap into. Um, but I think we we're just waiting to hear back, but we are ready to go to have wifi installs. That'd be great. Thanks for asking. That's great. Yeah. Councillor Vandiver, Thank you. Uh, I really appreciate the work that, that you do. Um, I, the beer gardens I think have been hugely successful. A lot. I, those are very well attended and a lot of fun. Um, I know there have been the art exhibitions and I haven't made an inside to one. Um, I wonder if there's, uh, you know, when there's something happening in the building, like other ways to, you know, exterior signage or open doors

▶ 53:08 or ways to direct people in, or maybe I've just been oblivious to it, but I, you know, that's one thing that I would like to make it into and for whatever reason haven't connected with yet. Well, uh, great news. Um, and, and a and a very point, great question. Right now we are, the beer gardens are gonna be moving to Saturdays, which is, uh, pending approval from the artists. Um, but it looks like they would do it. So we can kind of, uh, it's probably the largest attended events that we have at the BB are these beer gardens. Um, and then they will be working with the artists, uh, on the same day to draw additional traffic to their shows. And, um, you know, who knows, maybe have artists actually

▶ 53:53 Ryan Williams: outside on the lawn, things like that. So, um, we're excited, hopeful to, to see that come to fruition shortly, maybe by our next board meeting. That's wonderful. Yeah. Perfect. You, you already solved it. Yeah. I mean, you just Walked, right? I mean, it was ideal. It Was really, Or come by any Saturday. Yeah. Um, uh, should I make a motion to anyone else in line at your Discretion? Sure. Motion To recommend? Okay. Second. Second. Oh, sorry. Oh, I give it to her again. Um, motion to recommend made by Councillor Vandiver, seconded by Councillor Coleman. Um, on discussion, I wanted to ask you if you foresee or have had any conversations about impacts of construction next door? So, Um, I haven't told you yet.

▶ 54:44 Surprise, turns out there's a thing Happening next door. I'm only The, um, It's been quite a productive evening. Yeah. And we need to get our application for, uh, yes. A sign on, on the front of the building. Um, we Realized we don't have one. Right. We just realized that, Uh, so, um, looks like parking may be impacted and the city is going to be requesting our tenants to park on Berwick Street. Other than that, I'm unaware of anything else at this point, but thanks for asking. Yeah. Well, I will say one other project we've considered is replacing the chain link fence out front. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. With a much more attractive, more historically appropriate one. But we've held off on that in part because why do it now?

▶ 55:32 Ryan Williams: We'll wait until the construction's done. There's no need for a large piece of equipment to inadvertently bump into anything. Sure. Mm-hmm. Okay. Um, we have motion on the floor in a second if there's no other discussion. All in favor? Aye. Any opposed? No. Um, wait a minute. That was, let's just, that was one. Yes. So that was the order for Mr. Butler, and now we'll do the vote for Mrs. McKenna. Mm-hmm. Okay. Uh, we, we still need a motion for this, so Motion to recommend Second. Okay. Motion to recommend my Councillor Vandiver seconded by President Freeman. All in favor? Aye. Aye. Uh, any opposed? No, I'm also in favor. So those two motions pass. Okay. Alright. Sounds good. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

▶ 56:20 Ryan Williams: All right. And last but not least, 2 0 2 6 dash three nine reappointment of Brian Thorpe of 77 Wentworth Road to a five-year term as a regular member on the zoning board of appeals, said term to expire the last day of February, 2031. Thank you Mr. Thorpe for coming. The committee does not know this, but I, Mr. Thorpe, um, I did a Hail Mary and put him on the agenda before he confirmed. He confirmed last night and I responded and my email didn't get out to him. And so I had to email him today at when the meeting started and say, where are you? And he said, I know what you're talking about. So I'm very sorry about that. I'm Here. I thank you so much. Wanted to really Appreciate take Kevin, and I figured you guys

▶ 56:57 Ryan Williams: all wanted to as well. Yeah. Um, so I would love for you to share your experience on the zoning board of appeals. Any, um, thoughts or concerns or issues or suggestions you have for members of the council with the year ahead? Sure. Um, so I'm Brian Thorpe. I live at 77 Wentworth Road. I've been in Melrose since, I think that's something I'm supposed to say since the early nineties, like 91, I think. Um, and we've lived in the same house, raised my family here. Um, I'm a retired architect, was principal architectural firm until a few years ago. Uh, I've been on the zoning board since I think, I think, uh, 2008 maybe. So I've been on the board, I'm closing in on 20 years. Um, they told me I had to find my replacements

▶ 57:50 and I've just had no luck. Uh, But, uh, um, in that time I've seen a lot of different cases. We've seen a lot of, uh, um, building that has happened in the city. And, uh, um, I'm currently the chairman of the board, uh, uh, chair at this point, uh, for about a year or so now. And, um, I really like it. I think it's an important, uh, um, it's an important role to take. I try to, um, put my architect's hat away. We have a planning board. We have city planners that do that. So we look very, uh, closely and try very carefully to, um, stay in our lane in terms of, uh, um, in terms of zoning, appeals and, um, and whether we accept those or deny those. Um, and I think we have a pretty good group. We've done a lot of, uh, um, uh, I think

▶ 58:43 we've handled a lot of, uh, challenging cases. One of the things that happens, uh, one of the things that you all know is that any 40 b project that comes before us, um, to streamline the process, we are the adjudicating authority, or at least the authority has to re review those plans comprehensively. Um, I have a lot of experience doing construction and managing projects and, uh, um, our board is, uh, very good. And we, um, I think we do a good job at kind of varying out the questions and the details and trying to be responsive to the city. Uh, you know, I think the last, um, year or so has been, um, uh, it's been not challenging, but I think, uh, the city and some people in the city question the amount

▶ 59:36 of the development that's been happening. A lot of those things are kind of not in the control of the city or in control of, uh, you know, because it involves money and things like that. Um, and financing for projects. And, uh, um, so, uh, everything kind of all came before us at once. And so we have a lot of work along the rail corridor, uh, along, uh, Tremont and Essex right now. Um, and I think people look at that and, um, just get concerned with the amount of development. On the other hand, uh, we've just received safe harbor again, or we, we, we, we had it reinstituted, uh, which helps us, uh, in the process, the 40 B process is, um, challenging, uh, in terms of, um, trying to balance the needs of the

▶ 1:00:29 Bradley Freeman: needs of the state and the community, uh, and the individual neighbors. So, um, we do our best. And I don't really think I have anything else to add. I didn't have a prepared statement or anything. Thank you. Any questions, comments, president? Quick, quick comment, and then a question. Um, I had the opportunity to watch a board of appeals meeting recently where you considered the, uh, the gas station on Upham, granting them a variance for, for food. And I was really impressed with just how you discussed that case and the other cases pending that night. So I just wanna thank you. Thank you. And your board members. I just, quick question. You know, it says here, you had about 116 cases come before you.

▶ 1:01:09 Yeah. How many of those end up being completely rejected versus modified to an extent, to, to, to achieve passage at some point? I would say a, the majority are modified to receive passage. You know, I think, um, we, there, there's a standard that's, you know, written into mass state law about demonstrating a hardship. But, you know, a person buys a house and they're part of the community. Lots of times we have people that wanna stay in the community, can't afford to move out of the community or whole host of reasons. And I think, um, you know, one of our jobs when we're looking at it is to help them. Uh, you know, I have some, sometimes it feels like we have lots of continued cases. Uh, we have to explain to people that if they want to go,

▶ 1:02:01 uh, and proceed and it's voted and rejected, they can't come back for another three years, uh, to, uh, with the same material, uh, project. And so we encourage them to look for alternatives, I think is the, is the way we describe it. And we have a lot of, uh, people with, um, ideas about ways you can, ways you could, um, adhere. I mean, everything in Melrose is an existing non-conforming, non-conforming lot. Uh, and so a lot of it is, uh, in cases that run afoul are things that want to increase those nonconformities, those become problematic. Uh, and so we work with them to try to minimize those things as best we can. But I really think, you know, we're trying to, uh, I feel like it's important to try to help the community grow

▶ 1:02:55 and kind of do what they want. And, you know, they've invested a lot of money in the, in the town, so, you know, we do what we can. So I don't know how many we've rejected. There are plenty that come that are ill-conceived that, and, and a lot of them are actually stopped before they even come before us, because the planning department will pull 'em aside and say, no, you can't do this. But, um, I would say that some of the things that the, um, the new, uh, re codification of the zoning, uh, zoning ordinances, um, helped us in terms of streamlining some of that process for those kinds of folks where they want to do something and they maybe wanna enclose their front stoop. Uh, so they have a, so you don't just walk into the house,

▶ 1:03:45 Kimberly Vandiver: you know, that technically would violate the setback of the, uh, uh, front yard setback, but, you know, that's not a deal breaker. That's not, you know, you can work with them to try to, um, make that happen for them. So thank you very much. Mm-hmm. Any other questions? Councillor Vanderford, Uh, thank you so much for the work that you do. I've, I've sat in a couple of the kind of more passionate meetings you've had. Oh, great. And, uh, I really appreciate you, as you said. I think that's a great way to frame it, balancing the needs of the state community and the individuals. Um, uh, so yeah, I just wanted to, to express appreciation for everything that, that you've done, and especially with the 40 b um, projects.

▶ 1:04:28 Kimberly Vandiver: I think, uh, yeah, I, I think if there are any things people are frequently coming before you with, um, you know, where, where it's not where you need to work with them, I think any, I think for a lot of homeowners, it's kind of like an unknown if they're going into that process. So any Yes. You know, materials that can be made available on the website or, or giving people an expectation or how they could come for you best, I think that might be a direction. So I think, um, what I would say is that the, um, the planning department, I think does a really good job. Uh, Lori and, and Adam, uh, and Maya all have worked with folks, so a lot of times they'll, they will have already, they'll already know what

▶ 1:05:16 that process is supposed to be like. I don't think that always happens. Um, you know, I don't know how you improve outreach because that's, I I think the, um, the resources are available if you choose to come in and talk to people. Um, it is remarkable. Uh, something as simple as just, uh, knowing that you should talk to your neighbors before you plan a addition or a modification to your house. Um, that would seem to be something that wouldn't need to be said, but I'm surprised. Um, I'm, or I'm never shocked when I find out that, and sometimes the people that come in opposition or, or are as much as anything, just seeking out information because they haven't, they don't, they don't know what's going on.

▶ 1:06:06 So, um, that's part of what, what we have to do is explain the process to 'em. And I don't mind doing that. I think it's important. Um, you know, the 40 B process, that's a very complicated thing. And, uh, um, we've, um, had it, we, the, for the, I think it was for Greenwood, I don't think it was for, um, um, it's not for Summit, but uh, for, um, Greenwood, we had part of one of our meetings, or for the 40 B project, we, um, went through the process with everybody. We put up a slide deck that basically tried to explain for the neighbors that were there, um, you know, what, what's entailed, what you can deny, what you can't deny what that process is for the housing court. Um, and you know, I think that went a long way to helping

▶ 1:06:59 that group of people, that information's available in city, you know, in city Hall. Um, so, um, we're trying, but it's a two way street, and you've gotta get people, you know, uh, the, the project on Main Street, you know, obviously that got a lot of people excited, but in the end, that's really a, a good thing because, you know, somebody stops me on the street and ask me a question about it, I can explain the process to them, and then they leave not quite so impassioned about what's happening. They, I mean, I think it's really important too, um, for the residents to understand what we're doing and what we're trying to do. Um, so it's, Well thank you so much for, for that. And, um, I think that's, that's really valuable.

▶ 1:07:51 Kimberly Vandiver: We'll see what the main, as I mentioned in one of the other discussions at the main street, um, project 2 44 is in my wards, so I, you know, we'll see how that plays out over the next month or however long. But, um, I really appreciate your, that you, you and the board have the experience at this point with those types of projects and explaining them, and hopefully we can, you know, work through that as community, Work through it. It's, it's, uh, it's challenging. My daughter lives in your ward, probably then on Derby Street, so Oh, great. Not that far Away, but, Uh, thank you. Thank you again. And I'd like to make a motion to recommend. Okay. Motion to recommend by Councilor Vandiver. Second.

▶ 1:08:31 Ryan Williams: Seconded by, no, just getting President Freeman. All in favor? Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Any opposed? No. Um, no one's opposed. So that passes. Thank you. Great. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank You. So you, alright. That's the end of our agenda, uh, not to belabor at all. Motion by unanimous consent to adjourn hearing. No objections. We adjourned. Thank you everyone. Thank you.

Original documents

• Minutes (CivicClerk PDF)
• Agenda (CivicClerk PDF)
• Agenda packet (CivicClerk PDF)
• This meeting on the city portal