Appropriations & Oversight Committee — 2022-05-23
Attendance
Christopher Cinella ; Jack Eccles ; Mark Garipay ; Jen Grigoraitis ; Maya Jamaleddine ; Manjula Karamcheti ; Shawn M. MacMaster ; Leila Migliorelli ; John Obremski ; Robb Stewart ; Ryan Williams
Agenda
- Call to Order
- Public Comment
- Departments
- Information Items
- INFO-2022-7 : Information Item Updating City Council on Salt Shed
- Orders
- ORDER-2022-119 : City of Melrose Operating Budget for Fiscal Year 2023 in the amount of $95,256,080 (Ninety Five Million, Two Hundred Fifty-Six Thousand and Eighty Dollars)
- ORDER-2022-120 : Reauthorization of City of Melrose Revolving Fund table as first adopted by City Ordinance June 18th, 2018 and annually thereafter. Revolving Funds are further authorized under Massachusetts General Law Chapter 44 Section 53E 1/2.
- Adjournment
Minutes
CITY OF MELROSE APPROPRIATIONS & OVERSIGHT COMMITTEE CALENDAR● MAY 23, 2022 Council Chamber, First Floor, Melrose City Hall Budget Hearing 7:00 PM 562 Main Street, Melrose, MA 02176 Attendee Name Title Status Arrived Jen Grigoraitis Chair Present Leila Migliorelli Vice Chair Present Shawn M. MacMaster Absent Jack Eccles Present Mark Garipay Present Maya Jamaleddine Present Robb Stewart Absent Manjula Karamcheti Present John Obremski Present Ryan Williams Present Christopher Cinella President, ex oficio Present
INFO-2022-7 Informational Information Item Updating City Council on Salt Shed Recommend Place on File City Council
ORDER-2022-119 Operating Budgets (City, School, Regional School) City of Melrose Operating Budget for Fiscal Year 2023 in the amount of $95,256,080 (Ninety Five Million, Two Hundred Fifty-Six Thousand and Eighty Dollars) Held in Committee Appropriations & Oversight Committee
ORDER-2022-120 Revolving Fund/Reauthorization Reauthorization of City of Melrose Revolving Fund table as first adopted by City Ordinance June 18th, 2018 and annually thereafter. Revolving Funds are further authorized under Massachusetts General Law Chapter 44 Section 53E 1/2. Held in Committee Appropriations & Oversight Committee City of Melrose Page 1 6/3/2022 9:57 AM
Transcript
▶ 0:00 Jen Grigoraitis: By using the setting because that's what we decided. Yeah, okay. So just as this, all right, good evening. Today is Monday May 23rd 2022. The time is 7 pm and this is a meeting of the Appropriations and oversight committee. I am counselor. Gregoritis the chair joining me tonight our vice chair Migliorelli and counselors Echols garapay. Gemala Dean Karam chadey obremski Williams and president sonella ex-officio that will serve as notice of a quorum for the record. In accordance with the open meeting law this meeting is being recorded and broadcast on our local cable access Channel mmtv, as well as live streamed on the mmtv website and available for future viewing through the city of melrose's meeting
▶ 0:47 Jen Grigoraitis: portal at this time all-motion by unanimous consent to open public comment. Okay, seeing no objection public comment is now open. We don't have anyone with us tonight in person Mr. Clerk. Do we have anyone in the virtual waiting room we do not have anyone online at this moment. Okay, seeing no one to speak in public comment all motion by unanimous consent to close public comment. Seeing no objection public comment is now closed our first matter of business. This evening is various Department budgets and first up. We have Department 211 the Melrose police department and joining us is Chief Lyle welcome Chief and while you're getting settled at the table. I will entertain a motion to suspend the rules so we can hear from the chief.
▶ 1:30 Oh, we have a motion to spend the rules made by President sinela seconded by counselor Eccles all in favor. Any opposed the rules are suspended welcome Chief the floor is yours. I have to point out. Was brought to my attention today. There was two typos. on the PowerPoint presentation one under the line of 53 that should start off with fy22 requested budget for 23 and Budgeted for 23 you can see it. It starts with 21 and the same is true on line 54 the next page. So my apologies to the council for that. I will have clean copy sent to everybody tomorrow. Thank you for the backdrop shortly. I like to thank every member of the Melrose Police Department the last 12 months. We're still we're still dealing with covid from time
▶ 2:30 to time and I have to thank every police officer and supervisor in the police department for all that done over the past 12 months. as far as I Can't reach it five minutes. We'll take a five minute recess so we can fix the window situation. One reason thank you councilor pay for the assistance Chief. Please continue. There's a new program that we started on the police department. I don't know if you're familiar with it. We have a clinician now. She works in my office. It's the only space available for so she's in my small conference room. Her name is Tony Cochran. We started this plant about four years ago, and we finally got there late last year and it's a win-win for our community part of the program is we're building a hub program for the
▶ 3:40 city to deal with homelessness. Folks with addiction that still very prevalent in this community and it was very prevalent during covid as that number showed as well as mental health is another big problem for our community and any Community around so we are building a team and place we have DCF involved the dmh Department of Mental Health. We have Melrose Wakefield on board. The city side has a social worker through the health department as well as Mystic Valley Elder services and it is growing as we speak Melrose housing authority to assist folks on our community. We will be having an open house at the Milano Center in the month of June try and coordinate it so it doesn't impact you with your budget meetings.
▶ 4:24 But we will find a date we'll give you a couple dates. So you all can attend if you would like. We also have a new task force officer team canine Giselle. I don't know if you've seen her. She's pretty famous out right there on social media now and our Handler Sean Morris so that and we have another Task Force officer as a detective assigned to the DEA and then other canine Nero with their the Handler is Brian Tran. With that I'm available for questions as the budget is presented. Thank you Chief. And I know Council Garrett pay had a question. Thank you Chief. Thank you for being here. Congratulations. I think are in order for your last budget. With us number 15. Yes it is. Thank you for that.
▶ 5:13 Mark Garipay: Question on overtime. Yes is the overtime. Is there any that reimbursable is in your cover related reimbursable through any of the Federal funds or will be coming back to your department through that. Yes. Yes, and no so some of our overtime for 911 training for instance is through a state Grant the 911 program that covers the training 16 hours for every officer supervisor in the building this DEA task force, which is a detective assigned to the DEA. The detective is out on a call out for the DEA for investigation. That over time is reimbursable. That's it. Okay, so I see that it's budgeted. Sorry. Had it right here. over time was spent 497 and 20 20 21 budgeted 4:57 this past year. You're at 671 and we're
▶ 6:19 only up to 482. It looks like you're recommendation was 530,000. Can you just explain a little bit on? Is 482,000 going to be enough? What? I'm looking very honest with the council. I know in July first that a budget will budget will not make it until the end of the year. There's always moving variables people come people go illness injury military deployments the past couple years. It's been covid very it was prevalent a police department and family members. That's all changed now. It's sick time, but I can give you a breakdown on our overtime if you like. Excuse me. It's it's the second page from the back. You can see where the money spent I'm sick backfill is a big number and that a lot of that is covid related offices or
▶ 7:28 family members that have contracted the illness. I caught overtime as caught overtime that's pretty straightforward, but the courts were often courts were closed and then they dialed back and now I think there's another uptick so I dial back again. So those numbers may drop. The grants is the 911 training Grant. Minimum Manning's a big one. We we have a minimum of three offices per shift. And anything Falls below that it's an automatic over time minimum meaning. Our staffing levels have taken a hit this past year. We are in the process of hiring six new officers. That's just going to keep us status quo where we're at. We have three officers leaving one's leaving for a transfer to Western Mass the family home
▶ 8:19 families moving out there. one officers retiring the end of July and we have another officer that is looking to be hired by the city of Everett and their Police Department as a straight hire off the list. So come come August first. We're essentially going to have 14 performing a sign of shifts. That's a very low number. It's concerning to me. The other parts are all caught prosecutor sros. detectives traffic officer by contract so there are many moving parts and there's there's only so many bodies. So we're constantly forcing. That's why our overtime numbers what they are. A lot of these officers work Double-Double and there's a huge fatigue Factor on an officer comes in on the day shift expecting to go home go out
▶ 9:09 Mark Garipay: to dinner go to a movie or whatever. It may be. They're forced. They're stuck and it happens quite frequently. every week So in your presentation, you said this 33 offices? The six that we have we hired this year is that included in the 33? And the three that we're going to No, we're going to lose we're gonna end up at 33 where we're gonna end up saying so for the numbers for for August for us for instance for a good date. We'll be down to 30 patrolman 30 of that 30 patrolman, and I'm assigned a dispatch. three detectives two sros one prosecutor In one traffic officer leaving us with 14. It's actually 14 and a half because it's eight and a half petrol that run dispatch that leaves the city with.
▶ 9:58 14 half offices seven days a week 63 shifts a week rotating you can see how they get very tired very quickly fatigued and concerns me very much. So I also saw in there you have. Look into move, so someone into a resource officer in the middle school, which I 100% support but there's I gonna take an office. So that's gonna take an officer off the street before the office are out of control. Yes. And okay. What do you think the ideal? I guess it's 44. I would love to have 44 officers. We could do great things in the community with that but certainly 30 33 or 34 is not enough. Not enough for our community. Okay. You know if I make counsel, there was a management study done in 2012 11 12, and they said that the numbers we had at that time was about the
▶ 10:56 same. Was certainly not adequate but 44 was excessive. I begged it different with the management, but we have never got up to anywhere close to 44. I think that's it for me. Personally. I just want to thank you for your service. What the years stand that but, but I appreciate it. You always get back to us or at least for me when I call you. I usually get a phone call backs within a few hours, and that's much everybody in. This race doesn't have my vacuum number. Something's missing. Feel free to call me. I always answer if I don't shame on me. Thank you. Thank you any other counselors with questions? Basedramically rally thank you madam chair. Thank you Chief file for being here tonight. Just one quick clarifying
▶ 11:45 Leila Migliorelli: question on the last I think it's the last two pages the presentation Revenue collected and fy22 to date is Less than the previous two fiscal years and then this the page after that goes to overdue payments analysis. Is that is that part of this? Is there a pot? Yes. Okay. So looking at that chart. These are the outdo payments. Do those usually end up? Being fulfilled by the end of the fiscal year is like do you anticipate all of these overdue payments to come due by June 30 some of those carrier to years summer summer companies went out of business. We chase them the city writes it off. I mean, there's no way to go. We had an opportunity to take them to court we would Is the largest so what's the largest am reading
▶ 12:36 the color correctly that it's Melrose Public Works, or is that not? DP DPW is number one a lot of their projects are run through grants when the reimbursement comes in we get we get paid someone like I don't want to pick on the mayor's office on Melrose High School, but those are all. Community projects summer stroll home for the holidays. Those are all covered by the police department. All those are overtimes are details that are covered by the police department and we wait for the auditor's office to reconcile and the money gets moving and it all comes out of a salary and wager overtime to cover those expenses. So it all most of it unless it's like we should be all cleaned up on on or about July June 30.
▶ 13:27 Manjula Karamcheti: JD Cheap Lyle, thank you so much for being here. And for everything that you do this is just a quick question extended from the question counselor garapay was asking you but can you break it down for me? So what it looks like like day to day if you have a 31 officers, you did a great job reviewing sort of all the different positions. Like how many police officers do you have available per shift to answer to anything that might come up in the city of Melrose like whether it be a college field, you know speeding whatever like how many people do you have available? Because it sounds like there are a lot of specific roles like just bad the sros. So like what does that leave you for shift in terms
▶ 14:10 of like Manpower I use the word. Yeah, well, that's what I'm hearing. For instance. I don't know if you folks know. I number one calls for services Melrose Wakefield Hospital. I've made no bones about it. We're up there every day, right and it takes two police officers. We have three. There's your numbers first acts that that's we're going to Melrose waiting for fortunate. We have an additional body. We'll have four. And usually we have a massage on every shift and a supervisor inside yours on the days evenings and the overnights one dispatch. But a minimum Manning is three per shift. 24/7 but every domestic politics to officers so you can see where we struggle to do extra Duty as far as traffic enforcement they'll set up there'll be there 15
▶ 14:55 Manjula Karamcheti: minutes and then they get a call and they're gone and then people get upset. Geez, you know, why isn't that police officer here? Well on the day shift, we have a full-time traffic officer officer brownie does a very good job. He's a he's a contractual position. If it's an emergency, like they had an emergency at the hospital this afternoon. He went up there with that the whole shift went up there. Right. She's in the building. Everybody went up there. Yeah, thank you so much for explaining that I think it's so helpful to get a better picture of what that actually looks like in terms of like a day in the life of the city of Melrose and how many officers we have available to us. Thank you. So other things we do it this past
▶ 15:33 weekend, we are fortunate Saturday night. We had a bicycle officer that's all but you have to understand that most of these offices already worked there 50 60 hours a week not details, but over time and a lot of them do a double double which is they'll pair up with another officer. I'll do a day in an evening or an evening and an overnight tonight. You do the same tomorrow night and we can't have them work 24 hours a day. It's just not healthy. Not saying it's 16 hours a days is healthy all week long either, but that's what they do. So and then you see on the details the revenue that comes into the police department from the details and that's why you saw the spike. That was the the endless
▶ 16:11 project on Howard Street. That's why that number was so high our Advent fee that year. Yeah, thank you so much. I really appreciate you breaking it down for us. So thorough bremsky. If you're say if you're responded to the hospital on like a Friday I said day night for someone who maybe being transported there from a nearby community and you guys get there and you deescalate the situation. To offices from other nearby communities ever respond to Melrose Wakefield Hospital or is it just strictly mauroast on occasion. We you know, we'll call from Mutual aid, but that's very rare. Very very I try to take care of our own. All right? No, I get it. That's within. The city I know you so everybody in the room knows what I know that
▶ 16:55 Ryan Williams: I've been dealing with since the management study. And for to hire a new officer from day one, do we get the list to the day that they're ready for their for patrol? He's about 12 months 11 and a half 12 months. To all the kids are in the academy now, we won't see them till Christmas. any other Council Williams Thanks. And you mentioned details and it's something that I don't fully understand. So if you've got a minute appreciate you helping me out with it. I'm here all night, whatever it takes. So on the slide for administrative fees collected is that primarily detail payments? That's all that that's all it is the detail payment. So but I like, you know, let's take FY 21. It completed year about 282,000 but the total amount
▶ 17:42 Ryan Williams: of detail salary that comes out is higher than that, right? Yes. Like I mean I 2020 I saw numbers that were more like 600,650,000, right? Is is that in is that all over time considered over time or is it regular shift pay or is it it's a detail rate for the city of 64 dollars an hour? Okay. Now the average patrolman's $35 an hour for overtime. So what would you rather do? Yeah, for sure. Yeah, they get it. Yeah. I guess I was thinking too about the number of police and the shifts and the fact that guys are working and I know that folks want to work, you know, they want to work the time but yes or no. Yeah. Well, so this gets to my question. Is it is it concerning at all that we have? The collective bargaining agreement requirement for police to
▶ 18:34 Ryan Williams: do traffic details when we're this thin on officer numbers, like if you had a choice, would you rather be able to choose? To have civilian flaggers at some locations to give officers time to rest to to be more flexible with how you're assigning shifts see the details on the problem. It's the overtime because details we have retirees that fill the vacant details as well. Okay, so and then we have a pool of neighboring Police Department. So when we were real heavy with details during covid every Department around here was coming to mostly oh my gosh, you know because they weren't having any details and we had that electrical project. There are two years so that wasn't a problem. It's the overtime. I see
▶ 19:16 Mark Garipay: I see. Okay. All right. I appreciate that. That's elective too. By the way. That's there's nothing forced on that. Right? Absolutely understood. Thank you. You're welcome. Council grape. Yeah, I'm sorry Chief just spocked another question when you were talking on the overdue payments. We see Melrose Wakefield Hospital here. You mentioned that we're up there every day. We have a ordinance an ordinance on our books for troubled properties. We know we've done it with particular houses in my wood. And we ever discussed with the hospital if we're up there and they're not profit. It's great. They're in that they're in their community hospital, but there are also using a lot of our services taken away
▶ 19:58 Jack Eccles: from other residents have we have looked at brought them to the table to try to discuss on what we can do in order what they can do in order to Put more Security in the air or I look the reimburse us for some of the council. I looked at that ordinance very well. I thought we could be applied in the city solicitor had a different point of view than mine that it can't be applied. Really, so we're still Going to the hospital when we get a call for service. Okay. Thank you. counselor Eccles Thank you madam chair. Thanks for being here. Chief. So the talk about the spike in the revenue collected. Are we like anticipating closer to like 200,000 this year and kind of stable from assuming that there's none other
▶ 20:45 Jack Eccles: big project. Is that kind of what we're looking at? And is it just lower because obviously we have another month and a half of Revenue to collector. You know, I would say for comfortable number. It's probably 175 annually for the admin fee. And then just talking about like the difference between details and over time over time is something that you know, someone calls out sick. That's when someone gets over time, right? It's not so no one is doing a detail and getting over time at the same time. Oh, no that we I audited myself. Okay. We are at the details of faithfully. There's a lieutenant audits it and then I got it on top of that. No, no my watch little thank you enough departments have gone through that. We're not going to be one of them.
▶ 21:27 Jen Grigoraitis: Perfect. I think that was my only question. Thanks for being here. I look forward to serving with you on the traffic commission for a few more months. Thank you Chief and congratulations on your 15th and final budget presentation. And I know that we look forward to having more like a moving out of the state. You have to come to budget presentations anymore. And I know we my hair will start growing again. I don't know. Well, we look forward to seeing you again before retirement and I do have one question. I have the revolve an account. Is that up tonight or not? Is not up tonight. No. Oh, that's next week. So what we should be good. So I will entertain a motion to move the bottom line. So we have a motion to move the bottom line on Department 211 made
▶ 22:13 Jen Grigoraitis: by counselor Carm Shady seconded by counselor Eccles Mr. Clerk. Can you please call the roll? Vice chairman mcgrally, yes. Counselor Eckles, yes. Counselor garpy. Yes counselor jamaladin Councilor Carm Shady. Yes. Counselor bremski. Yes counselor Williams. Yes. President. Snella. Yes. Andrew garitus please. Yes. Mine, yes. I guess thank you chief. Next up. We have Department 151 city solicitor. There was a memo in on both the website and attached to the packet. What is the will of this committee? counselor Eccles motion move the bottom line second We have a motion to move the bottom line on Department 151 made by counselor Eccles seconded by councilor Williams Mr. Clerk. Can you please call the roll?
▶ 23:10 Vice chairman early. Yes counselor Eccles Yeah Council gerepe. Yes counselor. Jamaladin councilor crime Shady. Yes counselor bremski. Yes counselor Williams. Yes president. Sonella. Yes and check your grace. Yes, it's fine. Yes. Next we have Department 241 inspectional services. Vice chair Migliorelli motion to move the bottom line second. We have emotions move the bottom line on Department 241 made by Vice Chair Migliorelli seconded by president sanela. Mr. Clark Vice chairman literally, yes. Counselor Eckles, yes. Counselor garpy Yes concert. Jamala, Dean countertime Shady. Yes. Counselor bremski. Yes counsel Williams. Yes, president. Sonella. Yes and chair Gratis. Yes, that's not yes. Nine. Yes. Next we have inspectional service revolving account number
▶ 24:08 Jen Grigoraitis: 2658. Motion to move the bottom line second. We have emotions to move the bottom line on revolving account number 2658 made by councilor Williams seconded by president. Cinella. Clark Vice chairmanelli. Yes. Counselor Eccles. Yes castlegarapy. Yes counciloridine Council crime shooting councilor bremski. Yes counselor Williams. Yes, president. Sonella. Yes and shared a greatest. Yes. That's nine. Yes. Department 540 BB estate Vice charmingly Riley motion to move the bottom line Thank you, even motions move the bottom line and Department 540 made by Vice chairman glorelli seconded by counselor Eccles. Mr. Clark Vice chairmanelli. Yes. Counselor Eccles. Yes Council Gary pay. Yes Council Jamal Dean
▶ 25:04 Jen Grigoraitis: Council crime Shady. Yes counselor bremski. Yes counsel Williams. Yes president. Sonella. Yes and Cherokee writers. Yes, that's fine. Yes. Yes BB estate revolving account number 2750 Motion move the bottom line second. We have a motion to move the bottom line on revolving account number 2750 be a state made by Vice chairmagliarelli seconded by president sanela. Mr. Clark Vice chairmanelli. Yes counselor Eccles. Yes castlegarapy. Yes Castle Geraldine. Yeah, cancer crime Shady. Yes, sir. Bremski. Yes counselor Williams. Yes president sonella. Yes chair greatest. Yes, it's nine. Yes. And yes next we have Department 611 Melrose Public Library motion of the bottom line second. We have a motion to move the bottom line and Department 611 made by counselor Williams
▶ 25:52 seconded by president sonella. Vice chairmanelli. Yes. Counselor Eccles. Yes counsel. Gerepe. Yes counselor. Jamaladin. Yes counselor crime Shady. Yes counselor bremski. Yes counselor Williams. Yes, president. Sonella. Yes and chair Grigoraitis. Yes, that's nine. Yes. Department 141 Assessor motion with the bottom line second. We have a motion to move the bottom line and Department 141 made by President sanela seconded by Vice chairman glorelli. click Vice chairman. Yes. Counselor ecklus. Yes counsel. Gerepe. Yes councilor. Jamaladin Council crime Shady. Yes counselor bremski. Yes counselor Williams. Yes president sonella. Yes. And Trigger guardis. Yes, that's nine. Yes. Okay Department 543 veteran services
▶ 26:46 Jen Grigoraitis: motion the bottom line We have a motion to move the bottom line made and presidents and all the second did by counselor Karm Shady on Department. 543 Vice chairmanelli. Yes. Counselor Eccles. Yes counsagarpe yes counselor jamaladin Council crime Shady. Yes counselor bremski. Yes Council Williams. Yes president sonella. Yes. Trigger girls. Yes. It's 9 yes. And yes. veteran revolving account number 2607 motion to move the bottom line second. We have emotions move. The bottom line on revolving account number 2607 made by counselor Carm Shady seconded by president. Sonella, Mr. Clark Vice chairman. Yes counselor Eccles. Yes castlegarapy. Yes councilor Dean. Castle crime Shady. Yes councilor bremsky. Yes
▶ 27:37 Jen Grigoraitis: counselor Williams president sonella chair Grigoraitis. Yes, it's nine. Yes nine. Yes Department 545 disability commission. I will note that we do not have a memo from the disability commission. However, it is a zero percent budget change. So motion to move the bottom line second. We have a motion to move the bottom line on Department 545 made by counselor Williams seconded by counselor Carm Shady Mr. Clark one more time. Yeah Vice chairman, really? Oh, she wrote it. Yes counselor Eccles. Yes counselor garpy. Yes counselor. Jamaladin. Yeah Council Carm Shady. Yes counselor bremski. Yes Council Williams. Yes. President sonella. Yes and sugar greatest. Yes, that's nine. Yes, great moving on to informational order
▶ 28:32 Jen Grigoraitis: 2022-7 information item updating City Council on salt shed. This comes to us from the administration and we will be joined under our current suspension of Rules by Two Gentlemen from Weston and Samson. Please feel free to take the table and just for our viewing public at home. We are going to attempt for the first time in the history of the city of Melrose or certainly the city council a hybrid meeting where we are going to have the director of Public Works join us remotely. So we're going to give it a try. he want to recess my link for I think we're gonna first hear from our guests and then bring up the director per weekaselis is my understanding. Is that correct? That's fine. Right? Here we go. We're here and Grand Adventure. So
▶ 29:21 welcome gentlemen, if you don't mind introducing yourself and then feel free to present. Sure. Yes. Thank you. My name is Jamie fair. I'm a team leader and project manager with Western and Sampson. We're going to give a brief overview of the salt shed project and with me is one of our senior Engineers Tyler cough, Alicia. So with that I'll go through the presentation. Thank you. So this is just a brief overview of where we currently stand is some of you most of you probably know the existing salt sheds locating at the existing DPW and you can see it located there just to the west of el pond. And as you probably know the salt shed is in very bad shape right now. It's been getting worse over the years when we first started looking
▶ 30:12 at it in 2020. It was in tough shape and they were doing some repairs to keep it going and those have just gotten worse. You can see here that you know, the walls are being pushed out the salt is you know, spilling through openings in the walls and DPW is doing the best they can to, you know, keep things together with with what they have. This shows an example on the left in 2019. You can see a support calm that's sitting on a concrete pier and now in 2022 that's been pushed off of that peer. So there's some very significant structural issues the roof has, you know holes at their patching as they can periodically, but we are definitely getting rain water that comes through you can see the holes that
▶ 30:54 they like coming through the roof here. The sidewalls are failing in places. You can see they're bulging out those sidekickers are rotting. The framing is is really and terrible shape some more shots of the side walls where you have the deterioration that's been going on over the years another shot here. You see the roof is a blue, you know, blew up in a windstorm understand a piece actually flew off and could have potentially hit somebody but thankfully did not some more shots here of the side walls that are in Failure. So this is just sort of a timeline overview of where we are. So we did the initial study in November 2020. We completed an Alternatives analysis report. We looked at three different salt shed Alternatives and
▶ 31:46 we ended up selecting the high arch Gambrell and I'll talk about that process a little more details just sort of an overview right now to give you a sense and then in May 2021 we did. Project and it was not approved. So we worked closely with the DPW Elena and James and we assessed some different fabric structures to try to find a lower cost alternative and we'll talk about that a little more detail and the prices were a little lower but they didn't have the same benefits and utility for the DPW and so is determined to move forward in April 2022 is current April. We rebid the project with the original design working with a lane and James and and also in there and we'll discuss it some alternative sites were looked at throughout this reassessment process.
▶ 32:37 So that's just an overview of what we'll cover and a little more detail on that. So the alternative analysis there's three major types of structures that we looked at the high arch Gambrell structure. The one in the upper left-hand Corner that we ultimately selected the fabric structure in the upper, right? And then they Gable and salt shed in the bottom. The Gable end is similar to what you have now sort of. a smaller version of the high arch gambrel high arch Gambrell is a solid permanent structure wood framed heavy-duty Timbers. And then we also have some accessories. These are all very standard accessories and I'll say the high arch cam Brown and the fabric are standard structures as well for Public Works facilities. So we have
▶ 33:25 a brine system that increases the the salt loading accuracy has like attacking us to it that keeps the salt on the road. So it's more environmentally friendly and also helps to melt the ice at colder temperatures. So you can use less salt on the roads, which is also you know better for budgeting and for the environment loading ramp. It's a very tight site. So we have a loading ramp that can be moved and put away during the off season and that makes it much safer and easier for the folks to operate and low the trucks there often working very long hours. So anything to make it safe and easy is definitely a huge benefit and then we have the advantage of a canopy off the back to get some storage from equipment.
▶ 34:07 Which is, you know desperately needed at the DPW for keep some of their equipment out of the weather. So so numbers that we looked at. So we it really boiled down to the high arch Gambrell versus the fabric with the concrete block wall the fabric and block wall. That's the least expensive option that's available. And so these are all 20 21 numbers where we're waiting for the bids. We'll have the 2022s once they come in and so we had a difference of about 278,000 between the two. And and working with the tpw. They prefer the high arch because the many advantages it's environmentally friendly you can dump the salt completely within the salt sheds. You're not dumping it and then pushing it in and you're near Wetlands
▶ 34:56 you're near L Pond. We're in the the Wetland buffer area. So that's a huge environmental benefit by able to dump inside and also saves on man hours because you don't have to double handle the salt now dump it on the ground and then push it in. So one one motion. So to speak reduces the maintenance and operational costs. I kind of just describe that and then what the fabric structure you have to replace that fabric every once in a while can be more prone to getting hit and damage you won't have that because this is such a tall structure. It's designed specifically to avoid being hit because it is so high has a rare canopy to allow the storage of equipment and we can also accommodate the solar panels on the
▶ 35:39 roof. This is a chart that we put together just to give you a sense of how construction cross costs are progressing. I'm sure you've heard with covid and supply chain that things are going up. You can see the green line is the cost of the high arch Gambrell structure going from 2018. And we projected we could project out the 2022 with those dashed lines the hard number stop it 2021 and then the blue line is a fabric structure just a little less expensive, but you can see the class or definitely trending upward and sort of the the big reason for the jump from 2020 to 2021. That's a look at the initial study costs versus the final design costs and we found during the Geo technical investigation at
▶ 36:27 the site is on a peat layer which would require ground improvements to keep the foundation stabilized and there's also some environmental contamination on site that needs to be addressed. So those costs are part of the large increase. Across that period and then coupled with the supply chain issues that we've seen with with covid. And this is a total project cost breakdown just to give you a sense because you can get a quote for a building from a vendor, you know, as an example on the right for a fabric structure sort of an all-in number from a vendor with the wall and everything about 295,000. But what that doesn't give you is all the other costs associated with the site the ground improvements the
▶ 37:13 pavement the site work the ramp and the brine system the electrical construction contingencies. We try to give you a complete project cost. So you have the funding set aside to get you all the way through construction and also account for some perhaps additional work that could be encountered with the environmental issues or other issues like that. So when you hear the building number, that's just keep in mind if you with it's a small piece of the overall total project cost. And then these are some examples from other municipalities that we've worked with. We did the the Shrewsbury salt shed. We adjusted all of these to 2021 numbers. So Shrewsbury adjusted is about two million, you know, and we with the high arch gambrel. We're roughly 1.7
▶ 38:03 and then on the right we show sort of the the special features a canopies Brian system loading ramp environmental considerations in ground Improvement. So we have a check next to the one so so Melrose we have all of those features. So each one of those are included and then for Shrewsbury, you know, we just have the canopy the ramp and the ground improvements and so that's a little more money but it was a bigger salt shed, but it didn't have all the the add-ons. I'll call it or you site considerations that we have here. Raynham was about one point one five million. That was a smaller salt shed. Only had a canopy it didn't have the site issues that we have here. And then Burlington about 1.7 million
▶ 38:52 about the same round numbers slightly bigger, but less of the features I'll say. And then this is some fabric structures. So these costs are a little lower because we're fabric. It's a different style of building as I explained. And so Middleboro went with the fabric there about 1.5 million round numbers Winchester did a small fabric for about 880,000 but that again it's a fabric structure and they didn't have any of the site issues or any of the features that we're going to be using from Melrose. And so these are some photos this is very similar to what's being proposed here, except we have the portable ramp. So this is Shrewsbury salt shed. They have the ramp out front and the canopy. Raynham side mount the canopy. They
▶ 39:46 also had a rear mounted canopy. These are high arch Gambrell structures. Burlington similar high arch gambrel structure. It's the most popular solid shed just due to the utility and durability. So very similar. And then Middleboro, they did go fabric with the cast in place wall. They didn't have the the site challenges that we have but that's an example of what that could look like and then Winchester that smaller one that I was telling you. It's much lower profile fabric structure on a concrete block wall. We also looked at some alternate sites working with Elaine and James say they really LED this part of the effort. And so there was a collaboration with DCR that was discussed. The issue that with
▶ 40:37 DCR is that they were only planning on 800 tons. And you know, we need to add another 1200 on top of that. So it would more than double the size of the shed that they're planning on and they're a couple years out and they're a lot of logistical challenges that were identified and then with Route 99 just due to the location and the distance from many parts of the cities that they had significant concerns with moving forward with that option. And there's a lot here, but I think the question came up as well. What if we didn't build a saw Jet and we just closed out the site and so if we were to just demo the existing salt shed perform the soil remediation and then paved the site. Where round numbers for
▶ 41:26 about 345,000. Big Driver, there is are the contamination issues that are present, you know. And so that's everything. Thank you very much. In order FaceTime regularly do we not have this in our iqm too this presentation? I didn't see it in there way. We could have this email to us because it's really hard. I can't read I can't read that those figures so you get that email to your questions. Yeah, helpful to get that. Yeah, I can be done now if possible or email it to you right now. Yeah. Yeah. I think we can do that. Yeah. If you do city council at city of melrose.org, it'll get to all of us, okay? One easy and and I think the intent was this was sort of an initial presentation more informal
▶ 42:18 Jack Eccles: meeting and then we're going to come back after the bids are open and go through it again. So just so you can get familiar with it. Yeah counselor Eccles. Thank you. Madam. Chair just I guess just one one question I voted for this last time I based on you know, what the what plan comes before us and think it's an important project. It was listed number one. I keep seeing that support beam. Is there like anything we that can be done. In the meantime. I've seen a picture of that like four or five times and it seems precarious and if we're not gonna finish it by the end of the year is there that might be not a question for you. But yeah, I mean, we have a structural engineer. I think we could come up with a remedy if
▶ 43:01 needed I think. A point we would like to make is that the salt shed is in really really bad shape and to try and repair it and get you through another season. We have a lot of concerns about that and and so the project, you know, it's out to bid now and you know, we're really hopeful that we can you know work with you and get it approved just because we don't know if we can get that salt shed through another season. We're it's also helpful a lot more than just that support beam. All the Raptors are broken when I was out there visiting taking photos. I was kind of nervous just being around the Salted in general. So yeah, I'm not asking for another season I'm asking about today. So that was just kind of my very for
▶ 43:44 an interim measure. Yeah, that's something we could certainly look at. Yes. To think just before we continue with questions. I'm gonna have us bring up director proacas Ellis so that she's also able to hear and/or respond. So if this takes more than a couple seconds, we'll motion to recess. But here we go history in the making. Motion to recess. Thank you. Oh sure. We'll hold one second on that motion while we see if this works. thank you counselor garepe Oh, no, we see her. Can you hear us? We can't hear. Okay, we can't hear you. Okay, why don't we take that motion to recess for one second all in favor. Hi. Okay, we'll recess for three minutes. Can anyone hear me? There's like a delay. but I just have to
▶ 46:00 Ryan Williams: one minute and then we'll end our recess and kind of hear me exciting All right. I think we are back from our recess and we are in our first ever hybrid meeting so welcome for awake director prokosellis. And if there are questions from counselors. counselor Williams Ceramic computer turned off. Yes. Hello. This feels weird to turn around because you're technically behind me. Hello. There. You are. Hi. Thanks for joining us remotely pretty cool. So whoever amongst the participants feels comfortable answering the questions, please feel free. My so my first question is there was a couple of comments there was a couple of statements made throughout the course of the presentation about reducing salt
▶ 46:51 Ryan Williams: use and I want to clarify because I think you're talking about like reducing salt spillage. Maybe the ramp in particular is the goal of the ramp to just reduce spillage by more accurately loading Vehicles. Okay. All right. It's the other goal. I'm sorry. Yeah good is to make it easier for the load or operator. Yeah, when the loader is up elevated, they can see down into the back of the truck more easily. So it makes yeah, okay. Excellent. Same question with the gambrel. Structure reduces you said reduces salt. I assume you mean reduces salt spillages are like a shoot system that a not so much a chute system. It's a large trailer truck that comes on site and they'll Elevate that to dump it. So inherence, it's
▶ 47:35 so high that okay makes sense. Thank you. Appreciate it. Okay. My my next question is where was the DCR site? I'm this is my I'm fairly new to the council. So I don't know here for that discussion. If I could I'll defer to Elena on that one the location the DCR site. Or that was on Woodland Road, and it's installed them. a couple miles probably two three miles from the city yard down the Parkway and then down. On street. I guess it's called at that point and then take a right on Woodland. It's kind of across from the zoo. Oh, yeah, renovating that whole facility and they already shared the salt shed up there with masking routine. But as Jamie mentioned it's an 800 ton salt shed and they're replacing it with another 800 times
▶ 48:30 Ryan Williams: salt shed. So less than half the size of what Melrose alone would need. Okay. Thanks. You showed the Winchester fabric structure. Does Winchester have multiple sites for Salters at the only one they have? That's the only one I believe, you know, interesting. Um. And then the last series questions I have are generally around brining. So there's a brine tank in. This is the intention made this question. Probably for you. Elena is the intention to use brining as a proactive Road treatment strategy in lieu of not always but sometimes in lieu of rock salt. Elena you want I'm solution is made with the salt. So it's we added we add an environmentally friendly chemical called Magic. Mine is zero. It's what we use it now as well
▶ 49:21 and treat the salt with it you spray it on the salt and then you use that salt. Ideally you use that to pre-treat the roads and it it causes the snow and the ice not to form to begin with and then it allows you to use less salt during and after the storm. So I just I just want to clarify on this point. Are we talking about truck spraying brine liquid on Melrose streets absent of hard rock salt within the liquid I mean besides dissolved. With the truck still spread the salt the exact same way but the salt has been pretreated with the with the chemical to form a brine more of a solution. And so that's how it goes down. So it's One of the things that this Brian solution touts is that it reduces the bounce of the salt. So when
▶ 50:08 you just spread salt on the roads, you've seen it bounce all around and then some of it doesn't end up on the road. It goes off to the sides one of the advantages of the brine. Is that it that it? Just reduces that bounce so the salt kind of stays where you put it and then it also melts the ice at a lower down to lower temperatures than the salt alone. So when you pre-treat you ideally avoid the need to put as much salt down if any if it's just a short-lived ice storm. Sometimes you just pretreat and then you're done. When you say just pre-treat are you referring to just putting down liquid on the streets Brian liquid? Okay. Is the capacity of the tank sufficient to? Move to a system or use a system where we're well,
▶ 51:07 I guess first I should ask when communities are brining their streets like we see in Cambridge and Burlington has this Brian facility. Are they spraying? liquid brine solution pre-treating on the streets I would assume so I mean what what we've been doing for the last several years is considered industry standard for reduction of salt. We went through process of developing a whole sop. um, you can to be consistent with our stormwater nifties permit and Jamie might be able to answer a little bit better in terms of is the brine tank that we're designing sort of standard size for the volume of salt that we're putting in our shed to be able to you know to deliver the brine. I I would assume that it
▶ 51:58 is but Jamie, I don't know if you have comments on that what you've done in other communities. Sure. Yeah, the the tank size is very similar to what other communities would use. So I think you're in line there and and I think like you're explaining Elaine. I've heard from other communities their preferences to try and brine the streets in advance when they have the Manpower just to prevent the ice from forming can't always do that. But yeah be preferred. Are we are we brining currently? Yes. We're running currently without years. But do we do is there Brian tank president in the current salt shed. There is okay, but we don't always use it in that manner. Sometimes we apply the chemical ourselves to the to the loads
▶ 52:43 of salt as they're going out. The the tank inside is intended to treat the salt inside the shed, but we have been treating the salt once it's on the trucks. I'm not sure why we had moved to that system. I think it was a logistical issue with our existing salt shed. Um, but the intent would be to use this new brine system with the pumps and all to treat to treat the salt. Jamie do you have anything to add on on our existing system and just thought it was in rough shape and we met with the highway form and he indicated they've had you know troubles with it. It's near the end of its life and need to be replaced. So that's why we plugged in a new one for this project. Actually couldn't hear that.
▶ 53:33 Manjula Karamcheti: Oh, can you hear me now? Okay. I was just saying that when we met with the highway form and at the site initially you could see that the existing brine system was in bad shape and it was near the end of its life. So it was requested that we had a new system with the project. That we've been spraying directly on the trucks. Thank you counselor Carm chadie. Well first I want to say thank you so much for the presentation. It was really helpful to get the background of what happened in the past and the different options what's available the cost breakdowns all of that just so helpful to have that information, right? So I guess I will start by saying that I did my first one of my first tours that I went on was
▶ 54:29 Manjula Karamcheti: of the DPW facilities and being the curious person that I am I went to walk into the salt shed and I was pulled out quickly by the DPW director in the city engineer and I'm not being dramatic. They were truly afraid for me because I tried to go inside and they were worried. So what that makes me think of is not me but our DPW workers is are there safe working conditions? And to me it doesn't seem like the salt said it's safe give in I was just trying to walk in and I was Again, physically pulled out for fear that something would happen to me. So I definitely see the need for us to move forward and I think you've presented great a great case for for why the high gambrel is a good option for us. So I really what
▶ 55:21 Manjula Karamcheti: I want to ask you about is, you know, we've gotten some requests from constituents particularly those who care about the environment about like reducing our salt on the streets and are there alternatives to Salt my understanding is that the brine solution is that alternative but I don't know enough about this kind of thing. So, Are there other options to reduce salts or is I think Brian solution the one it's the one I've heard of but I don't know if there's more to it. I I would say that that's correct. The brine solution is the one and there's different types of Brine and sort of each Community kind of tankers with it and finds out which one works best for them. There's magnesium chloride calcium
▶ 56:07 chloride straight salt brine making systems. I think this magic go is sort of on the lines of like a MAG chloride is what it sounds to me. That's a very popular Brine and as Elena described, you know, you use that and you spray the salt with it to basically boot, you know, boost the melting power of that salt. So you minimize the amount of salt that's being used that way and then it also gives it that kind of sticky texture to it. So it doesn't bounce off the road as much so you use less get more, you know salt in the areas that you need it and that's that's really The the primary method that towns are using everybody uses salt. You can't really I don't even heard of anybody getting rid of all their salt but by having
▶ 56:54 the brine as a supplement, you can minimize the salt usage and you can also minimize or eliminate the need for sand. There's a lot some communities you sand. But the problem with sand is it's great you get that grit, but then you have to clean it up and the off season and then that has a little bit of contamination and that's regulated by the DP additional costs. So not using sand and using salt with the brine system is is definitely the way almost every Community goes. So just to summarize what I'm hearing is the current salt shed is unsafe, correct and we are exploring and utilizing environmentally friendly practices to the best of our ability to reduce our salt use. Absolutely. Yes. Thank you very much. Welcome. Are
▶ 57:42 Jen Grigoraitis: there any counselors with questions for the Time before I have a couple so that I'm gonna ask if you and then I'll turn it over. Um, so on the my first question is on timeline. I know that this is out to bid now and obviously would be pending financing but should that come through is it even realistic given the issues in the construction industry right now that this would be done this winter. I mean we have projects that were funded two years ago. That still aren't right direction, right? No, it's a great question and the answer is yes, you know, we have it's it's out to bid now. We're talking to the contractors that bid before we know a couple of these folks are very experienced with doing this type
▶ 58:24 Jen Grigoraitis: of salt shed. They're aware of this job. They were aware of it before and every we're getting positive feedback that they can meet the schedule we have in the bid specifications that construction schedule is about four and a half months roughly 140 days from the notice the proceed so if that was today bring us to October 10th. Pits are gonna be open this Wednesday. Yeah. So everything we're hearing is at the materials are there and ready and that they can do this. Okay, and then continuing on this I've heard this too that the salt shed is unsafe. We can't have people in there. We pull people out now. I'm not an expert on the Massachusetts building code, but I know something can be declared structurally unsound so has if the
▶ 59:10 Jen Grigoraitis: salt if we're literally pulling people out of the building. I mean are we condemning it? Are we I guess I'm it's like it's so unsafe and yet I'm assuming we have DPW workers who are continuing to go in there, which is concerning to me, right? I guess Elena I'll speak and then maybe let you jump in a little bit but we you know, we did do our initial structural assessment and some repairs were made to stabilize things. And since Tyler was on site the other day, you know, it looks like there's been more damage done there has not been a formal, you know reassessment from a structural standpoint, but certainly everything we've seen and heard is that it is unsafe and I saw a yellow caution tape across the the entrance the
▶ 59:53 Jen Grigoraitis: other day and I don't know Lane if anything maybe to add to that if you would Yeah, the good news is that we're done with the salt season unless something crazy happens with the New England weather. So we shouldn't have to use salt again this year. And so we have blocked it off so that nobody should be going in there. And our hope is that it will be demolished before it needs to be used again. So if it's Not demolished before it's used again. Is it then going to be declared? Like I'm trying to understand if this doesn't go forward what actually happens like we've now we're publicly stating that a buildings unsafe. I'm assuming we're not allowing. employees in there and then where to like how what happens when Melrose has a snowstorm and there's no salt
▶ 1:00:40 shed. I guess that's what I'm trying to understand. I would honestly advocate for demolishing this. Building no matter what because I think it's I find it so unsafe and I can't believe that we are allowing it to to even have continued as long as we have but it is it reached a really critical point actually counselor. Karenchetti was with me when I saw that support that is now completely off. It's it's Footing and so that's the point at which I said we should just block this off and not let anybody in we have not sought a formal Declaration of condemned from The Building Commissioner. We considered doing that last year, but we just weren't sure. we weren't presented with any sort of Plan B as to what happens if we condemn our salt shed,
▶ 1:01:32 and we don't have plan in place to rebuild or to do something different so We didn't request for the Building Commissioner to come and give an opinion but based on that that support that's completely off the footing now, I would guess that that building is condemnable and and also the the pieces of metal flying off the roof. so you know, I I've been wanting to take that step for quite a while, but I just haven't known where that leaves us, and I've been a little hesitant to to do so, but That's my assumption. It would be condemned if we sought the opinion of the Building Commissioner. So just to so let's assume because we're we're all on here saying it's unsafe that we're not going to let employees in there this coming winter and there
▶ 1:02:22 is no new salt shed. So what is what does that look? I mean, what is the plan B if this this fails like where does I just want the community in all of us to understand what the choices are? Yeah. That's been the challenge that we Face throughout this discussion because we brought this to the council for vote two times before which is why I wanted to bring the Consultants today in an informational capacity when we don't have a number we're not voting on an amount, but the discussion to date has always been surrounding funding order. and the counselors who have not voted in support of the funding order have just not wanted to pay the price tag that were proposing and wanted to find an alternative that is less costly and
▶ 1:03:12 Personally, I think that we have exhausted all options of less costly. Alternatives the only less costly alternative is a fabric shed that as we saw cost less than 300,000 less and for something that we then have to replace the fabric every decade or so and we can't put solar panels on it and we can't move the canopy off the back to store some additional equipment. You know it it's just not practical to spend that kind of money on something. so much lesser than the full building, so I think that I think the council was hoping for an option that was half the price but still met the need. and that option really doesn't exist. So in my mind. Plan B. Is we demolished the shed and maybe we? I don't know. We just have salt in
▶ 1:04:08 a pile for a year until we get approval but the prices are only going up on this building. So there I don't think there's ever going to be a cheaper option. It's only going to get more expensive so I guess I've also been waiting for someone else to tell me. What is Plan B for those who didn't support it the first time or the second time? And you know, I've been open to any and all suggestions but just have not heard a single viable suggestion aside from the DCR sharing option which sounded great except that they're not even in design and there is a phased project up there and I don't even know what phase the salt sheds going to be in so they're years out. Building anything new up there and what they have right now.
▶ 1:04:55 Jen Grigoraitis: Doesn't even accommodate us never mind us combined with Dot and DCR. So that was a great idea, but not not a viable one. Right. I think what I'm trying to ask is if we put a pile of salt at like are we putting a pile of salt down on the ground or are we driving to Stoneham driving to Malden setting sending trucks through every corner of Melrose with salt that we stored other communities. I I agree with you. Every decision has consequences. I'm trying to understand. Not what is an alternative to this which with all due respect. I definitely do not think is the purview of this body. Although we're all pretty great. I don't think we have that level of expertise but what happens if this doesn't pass what does
▶ 1:05:39 next winter look like for this community? I would say our best option. If we want to have a new salt shed by Next by the winter season. As of right now I've arranged with Wakefield that they will take all our whole all of our salt that's left over in the shed to Wakefield in preparation for demoing our salt shed. If we reach next winter and we still don't have a salt shed. I would say our best option is you know begging our neighboring communities for a temporary partnership where we where we you know pay for our salt shipments to go to their shed and we go and get them from there, but I can tell you for sure that I can't imagine any other community is going to want any permanent solution where every Miller's
▶ 1:06:27 Ryan Williams: DPW truck is driving through their Community every storm to get salt. Those types of things just don't go over. Well, I don't think we would want another Community driving through Melrose throughout storms. To our facility either but that's probably the best temporary option if we had to demolish but couldn't rebuild. Thank you. I appreciate that forecasting of what it would look like and now those are my questions councilor Williams for the second time. Thanks. I want to Elaine is talking a lot about the council. And of course there's a new Council there's a couple of new people on here. And so I wasn't a part of these discussions and to be clear. My concern is not that this all shed is too expensive my concern
▶ 1:07:11 Ryan Williams: if you could call it a concern, I think the building should be condemned right now. It's totally unsafe to work and I wouldn't work in it. I'm and I wouldn't let any of the people on my crew work in it. I mean, it's literally falling apart one strong win could blow sheet metal off and send it into the pool. That's a couple of you know, Parcels down the street full of kids. Um, the line of questioning I have are on brine is because I'm very interested in the flexibility of this community to adapt to the changing Dynamic that we're putting down on these roads with bike Lanes with more sidewalks and with our capacity to pretreat some of this not with a brind rock salt solution, but with a liquid brine solution, which
▶ 1:07:53 Ryan Williams: is what we pilot what we've seen piloted in other cities where you take a truck you put a liquid tank on the back. It's full of salt water and you drive through the streets and you just liquid apply this stuff like a Mist down on the street to reduce to really reduce the use of salt. We're talking 75% because you know, you can pre-treat and brine the rock salt. But as soon as you put it in that truck, it's up to the operator to decide how much salt to put down. And so I'm skeptical of suggestions that we can reduce salt being thrown out on the streets only because at the end of the day, it's up to who pulls the shoot and how much comes out the other end. I'd be interested in seeing like how many
▶ 1:08:31 Ryan Williams: Tons of salt we purchased each year and what the forecast is and whether we see that going down year after year as a part of follow-up on this and I would like to know maybe this is my only actual question whether or not the tank would be compatible with any kind of output system that would allow you to couple a hose up to it on the outside and fill up a tank on a pilot project somewhere down the road. The water tank, that's inside. I mean, is it just a big vat that mixes and then you shoveled salt out of it or does it have outputs? Yeah, won't you the system were proposing does have the capability of filling up saddle tanks on would you call it saddle tank? Yeah, okay. So things will hold the Brian on the back of the
▶ 1:09:13 Mark Garipay: tank trucks but also has a capability of spraying down the cell pile and pre-treating it like Elena was talking about it's flexible and as the opportunity to do it either way as designed for this project. Excellent. Okay. Thanks very much. I appreciate it. Nothing more. thank 's on the on the fabric option if we go with the fabric option, I mean, well, it doesn't sound like we're going because it's already out the bit but with the fabric option. Talking to the DCR. They built a number of them over the last few number years and they've done block foundations and then did a solid wall inside. By doing that. You wouldn't have to go down and pour a foundation could be used the same pad, correct?
▶ 1:10:06 Mark Garipay: Correct. They would go down maybe six to 12 inches roughly with the block wall Foundation. Okay? Yeah, so so with that being said if we don't have to do that, we know that soil is contaminated right now, right? We also know that whole street. was an automotive dealership back in the day. Mm-hmm. So I guess my question is if we clean that portion of that yard up. Mm-hmm. Could we be cleaning it up again in 10 years with the way things flow? Like if it's contaminated then property next door is contaminated. It's right on the property line. Could that flow back into our property? And we're going to be cleaning it up again down the road. That's something that our environmental engineer will take a look at he
▶ 1:10:52 hasn't said that to be the case based on the data that we have so far, you know, that's he's very familiar with like a down gradient property status. So he did right now, he does not believe there's contamination coming from another site onto this site, but that's certainly something that will look at closely during construction because during construction we're gonna you know, open up the ground for the foundations and I'll add the Irish Gambrell does have I'll call it. It's a minimal minimally invasive Foundation. It's not like one giant spread for that raps around. They're like individual strip footings that are constructed so it's not that much so, but we'll certainly In that area up, they'll take a close. Look at that take environmental samples
▶ 1:11:37 Mark Garipay: and we'll have them look specifically at your concern to make sure there isn't, you know from another property. Yeah, so not saying the other property see if it's coming from the The west side of the property. Mm-hmm going towards the Fell's way. It slopes that way right probably slopes that way towards the pond. Is it safe to say or is it could we assume that any contamination up there would end up down the other end of our property. I guess it depends. I mean we have to take a look at the contamination that area but yeah in speaking with our LSP part of what we have to do next is a investigation to define the limits of the contamination. And as of now we don't know but we have to take those steps. Those are
▶ 1:12:21 Mark Garipay: Upcoming steps that we're going to take to help answer that question for you. Yeah. Well, we're only taking those steps based on the high Ox Gambrell which is out the bid that those steps have to happen whether or not a salt shed goes there or not. So if we went with a fabric then we definitely wouldn't need to spend $130,000 that is in here to clean that soil up right now, right? So my favorite is that we're spending it now, we're going to spend it again in 10 years. So I know you're getting at the fabric doesn't have the foundation. So you have Think there's less there is less soil removal boat. The majority of the soil generated on site is when you repave and it's the 12 inches that you need to remove and replace
▶ 1:13:03 whereas the foundations of the higher ground Barrel like Jamie said our pretty efficient and the amount of volume generated from those is a smaller this pretty small percentage in if you look at the cost estimate between high arch cambrell and the fabric you'll see the cost for soil disposals still pretty significant, but it is less than the high arch Cambro so and I don't know if the end. it's just me speaking based on my understanding of from our LSP is that the end goal isn't necessary to clean it all up, but potentially ending with a aul or Right. It's an activity in use limitation. So so they're gonna do a regardless of higher scambrel or fabric. We're gonna do a phase one environmental assessment per the
▶ 1:13:58 depth standards and they'll look at concerns related to contamination coming from off property and we'll confirm that that won't be an issue for you. And then the plan is to just remove the amount of soil that's necessary to get you in a compliance with the depth standards. And so we anticipate that there'll be residual contamination left behind but it won't be a health risk or safety risk to anybody will be capped with pavement or soil cap. And then it will be registered with the dep with they call it an activity and use limitation. So honestly like these they'll do the assessment. I don't think you need to be concerned that it's gonna come back 10 years from now, they'll they'll figure out if there's anything coming from
▶ 1:14:45 Mark Garipay: Json property and and whether you have the fabric of the high arch, I think you'll be protected from that contingency. So I'm just struggling with a fabric building being this amount this amount of money right when you know, it doesn't sound like this as much prep work in construction costs based on right the 270,000 estimate we've got right now last may you gave us to estimates Like this the gambrel the fabric and then this time we just got a cost of a fabric of 270. Is there any way to try to take that cost and put it into something like this so we can take a Take a look at it and decide for what? I mean. I don't know the 279. I think I I need to interrupt just because I was looking at that clock which is slow. It's 8:15, and we actually need
▶ 1:15:43 to gavel into Finance in order to be. In compliance. So I apologize. We're going to have to recess out of this meeting open another meeting and then come back. Okay. So motion to is there can I entertain a motion to recess motion recess second motion about Teresa has made by Vice chairman. We really seconded by counselor Eccles all in favor. I thank you. We'll be recessed and then we'll come back to this. Had a side. Ah, yeah. disappeared Good evening. Today is Monday May 23 2022 and the time is 8. 12 Pm. This is a meeting of the finance committee. I am Consular Jamal Dean the chair and joining me tonight in foreign members Vice chair gerepe counselor. Magliarelli counselor karamchetti councilor of
▶ 1:20:23 fabric shed, which is concrete block walls Which still require driving piles? I believe because of the repeat layer that was found in our geotechnical analysis. So you still need some sort of peers or footings underneath the concrete block walls in select locations and that cost estimate shows the cost of the building along with each of the individual add-ons that what makes it go from a couple hundred thousand for the fabric shed up to 1.3 1.4 million for the completed project. And so I'm wondering if Wilson Community put that up on the screen. If not, I can actually put it up on the screen if and you're gives me the ability to share. I'm not sure which is easier with my face on the screen here.
▶ 1:21:18 It Atlanta if you can do it, it might be easy because my presentations on a separate Chromebook to to match up with the city system. Yes, so under if you can allow me to share or I can forward it to you if you want to put it up on the screen either way. Oh great. Now I can share. so I'll put it up here and then Jamie and Tyler if you can explain it. I can make it a little bigger. Okay, everybody. We can't read that or I know I can't read that is it in the in iqm too is It was attachment five in my packet and it's the second page of attachment five. Okay, so I might because now you're very very tiny. So I think my my preference would be to have everyone open it on their own Monitor and have you go
▶ 1:22:24 back to being full size you Okay. All right and Jamie, do you have it then to I've got it. I did just email it to you again. I've got it on my laptop here. I just couldn't put it up on that on that screen. So if other folks have in front of them I can walk we all have access to it. Yeah. All right, so it starts out with this is the November 12th. 2021 fabric salt shed with eight foot concrete block wall if you can see that the top there. And so the so if you look at you have the the top numbers of the block wall the electrical panel roof. That's just a protective covering and the structure itself gets to 295,000. And so that's the the building cost that we've been talking about. But then we have the additional construction
▶ 1:23:16 cost that apply and so I won't go through every number I'll go through maybe some of the bigger ones but you know, we've got the demo of the solid shed. We have 130,000 soil disposal allowance dewatering site grading sub-based preparation new pavement because of the contamination, there's dust monitoring. That's one of the bigger ones at 45,000 and then the biggest one in that chord and that area is the ground improvements is 161,000. Those are that's because of the peat layer. So even though you have a block wall. Duration, those fabric structures can only take so much differential settlement and if it goes over like a small amount, they'll say the warranty isn't valid. So it's we've kind of been down this road before you could do it,
▶ 1:24:07 but you're just you you're taking a chance and so we're doing the ground improvements underneath the block wall foundation and within the footprint of the salt shed. So that because that's so pile will have a tendency to to push down and cause differential settlement. And so all those those costs add up to another round number 500,000 you see that there so you get a subtotal of the 800,000 and then this is going to be run by a State Certified DeCamp certified general contractor. They're going to manage it. And so that's what those markups that you see the bonds and insurance General conditions and supervision 46,0988. They're overhead and profit 11% 95,688. And then we add a an inflation factor
▶ 1:25:01 to project that through May of 2021. So those markups add up to 178,000. And then you get a subtotal there of 980,000. And so so based on this where what we're trying to convey is that before we have the the additional features with the canopy, you know, we would expect the construction bids to come in at 980 and we try to be conservative but not like overly conservative. We don't want to be the low, you know, we're trying to advise on a budget to get you through the job. And so we have the 980 and then there's a 10% construction contingency. That's only there and that's 98,000 that's only there if we hit additional contamination or additional ground improvements or there's always something that comes up during construction. So
▶ 1:25:55 that's post award only if needed if we don't need all that or any of it, you don't you don't pay for it. We just recommend budgeting for it to to get you through the project and because we're looking at fabric there is no canopy. It doesn't have that ability. On this site, then we have the the add-on for the brine system the 35,000 the loading ramp at the 50,000. And so that's those are all of your I'll call them construction costs with the 10% construction contingency then underneath that are the design permitting special services and construction Administration line items. And so we have the fabric structure the actual design of the structure itself, the bidding process the environmental Design
▶ 1:26:50 Services 15,000 construction Administration that's time for us to be on site observing the construction of the fabric structure and the block wall reviewing shop drawings reviewing invoices doing electrical expression things of that nature because of the contamination of a separate. Project within this the 40,000 is for the environmental Construction Services oversight of the removal of the contaminated soil. And sampling and then the have the ground improvements. That's our geotechnical Engineers overseeing the contractor installing the ground improvements. It's going to be like grouted peers that will go into the ground through the peat layer down to firm undisturbed subgrade materials. And so that's that's sort of the engineering and
▶ 1:27:42 Construction Services associated with that part of the project. And so when you add all of those we have a total project cost so 1 million two hundred and twenty seven, that's the base. And then when you add in the brine it bumps up and then you add the then the brine with the loading ramp goes up and then having everything brine loading rapping canopy the one point three million. Oh, you're right. There's no canopy. So yeah, it's just the same number. Yeah, the other one has canopy. So yeah ignore that. It's so it's 1.3 million and So that that if we weren't in covid we would say that would be the budget total project cost to carry but because of covid and uncertainty Supply chains escalation inflation Etc.
▶ 1:28:33 We recommend another 15% and that's only if the bids come in and it's necessary. That's that's a budget that wouldn't be spent unless it was dictated by by the bid prices. So I know that's a lot. We try and break it down in detail because we know it's a lot of money and it's like holy mackerel spending over a million dollars for salt storage, but I can tell you this is what every town city goes through. These are they're just expensive systems the environmental contamination the site the permitting they just all add up and we try to be honest with you. So you get the full cost up front and we try and break it all down to be as transparent as possible. Any other questions Council Grandpa? Yeah. The
▶ 1:29:21 Mark Garipay: only thing I'll say is just a counselor. or cheer woman gregoritis is point. I didn't support this last time. and it's it's not up to the council to propose things. Our responsibility is to vote based on what we think is is best. So, you know, if someone votes against something I that person does not need to come up with a solution. I believe that's the administration's job in the city's job. So that's all I want to say. Thank you any other counselors with questions. Okay, I will entertain a motion to place on file. We should play some file. Sorry even motion to place on file made by president's Nellis seconded by councilor Williams all in favor. Aye any opposed. Okay. So this is on file. Thank you gentlemen for being
▶ 1:30:17 Jen Grigoraitis: with us this evening. Thank you in first bearing with us through some procedural stuff. Thank you Elena for joining us. I also want to especially thank Kirk of committees Go real for jumping in to help us set this up and to IT director Ellis for joining us tonight. I don't know if I'll ever be able to recreate this but it was very exciting that it happened. So thank you all and then we just have two brief votes before us. The first is order 2022-119 CD of Melrose operating budget for fiscal year 2023 in the amount of 95 million two hundred fifty six thousand and eighty dollars. I will entertain a motion to hold emotional Holden Community second. We have a motion to hold made by counselor eckel seconded
▶ 1:30:58 Jen Grigoraitis: by Council the Carm chady all in favor. Any opposed order is held and then order 202. 2-1 20 reauthorization of city of Melrose revolving fund table as first adopted by city ordinance June 18th, 2018 in annually, thereafter revolving funds are further authorized under Massachusetts General Law chapter 44 section 53e and a half. We'll entertain a motion to hold fish hold second leave emotion to hold made by counselor Eccles seconded by Vice chairman learelli all in favor. Opposed that is held and lastly. I will entertain a motion to adjourn motion to adjourned second. We have a motion to adjourn made by Vice Chair Migliorelli seconded by councilor Williams all in favor. We are adjourned. Thank you. See you Thursday.