Appropriations & Oversight Committee — 2024-09-09
Attendance
Cal Finocchiaro ; Mark Garipay ; Ward Hamilton ; Maya Jamaleddine ; Manjula Karamcheti ; Leila Migliorelli ; John Obremski ; Devin Romanul ; Robb Stewart ; Kimberly Vandiver ; Ryan Williams
Agenda
- Call to Order
- Public Comment
- Legislative Items
- GRANT-2025-3 : Acceptance of Field Demonstration Project Area: Age Friendly/Dementia Friendly Capacity Building in the amount of $10,000
- GRANT-2025-2 : Acceptance of Natural Hazard Mitigation Plan Update grant from MEMA/FEMA
- APPRO-2025-1 : An Appropriation from Contract Stabilization (#84042) in the amount of $363,000 (Three Hundred Sixty Three Thousand Dollars) to Department of Public Works (#014023) for the replacement of Melrose High School Skylights.
- Adjournment
Minutes
CITY OF MELROSE APPROPRIATIONS & OVERSIGHT COMMITTEE CALENDAR● SEPTEMBER 9, 2024 Council Chamber, First Floor, Melrose City Hall Committee Meeting 7:30 PM 562 Main Street, Melrose, MA 02176 Attendee Name Title Status Arrived Maya Jamaleddine Chair Present Ryan Williams Vice Chair Present Mark Garipay Present Robb Stewart Present Manjula Karamcheti Present John Obremski Absent Ward Hamilton Present Kimberly Vandiver Present Devin Romanul Present Cal Finocchiaro Present Leila Migliorelli President, Ex Oficio Present
GRANT-2025-3 Grant Acceptance of Field Demonstration Project Area: Age Friendly/Dementia Friendly Capacity Building in the amount of $10,000 Ought to Pass City Council
GRANT-2025-2 Grant Acceptance of Natural Hazard Mitigation Plan Update grant from MEMA/FEMA Ought to Pass City Council
APPRO-2025-1 Appropriation An Appropriation from Contract Stabilization (#84042) in the amount of $363,000 (Three Hundred Sixty Three Thousand Dollars) to Department of Public Works (#014023) for the replacement of Melrose High School Skylights. Ought to Pass City Council City of Melrose Page 1 9/12/2024 2:40 PM
Transcript
▶ 0:00 Maya Jamaleddine: Good morning, Good evening. The time is seven, uh, 30 on Monday, September 9th, 2024. This is a meeting of the appropriations and, uh, oversight committee. I am Maya Jamal, Dean, uh, pronouncer and her the chair. And also joining me tonight are Vice Chair William, counselor Ro GPE Hamilton, Kara, Shari Romano Stewart, and President Raio. This serves as notice of a quorum for the record in accordance with the open meeting law. This meeting is being recorded and broadcast live on MMTV. Um, I will motion by unanimous consent to open the floor for public comment. Seeing no objection, we are now open for public comment, and this is the portion of the meeting where anyone of the public can, uh, speak on an item on our agenda for tonight.
▶ 1:03 Maya Jamaleddine: Do we have anyone online? There Are no attendees online. Since we have no one, uh, in person or online for, uh, public comment participation. I, if there is no objection, I will motion to close. Public comment. Seeing none, we are closed for public comment. And since we have members of the administration here tonight to speak on the items before us, I would like to entertain motion by unanimous consent to suspend Rule 37 B before we proceed. And, um, seeing none rules 37 B is now suspended. And for the record, counselor Ver is, um, has joined us for tonight. Uh, first item on our agenda is Grant, 2025 dash three. Acceptance of field demonstration project area, age friendly, dementia friendly
▶ 2:08 capacity building in the amount of $10,000. Good evening. Good evening counselors. Good to be back with you. Uh, so this grant is, uh, from the Massachusetts Councils on Aging. Um, this particular, um, application was for dementia and age friendly capacity building. So, um, our goals for this particular, um, project would be, uh, three key areas. One, to, um, conduct information sessions for local businesses, the public and city departments to train on, um, dementia and, um, you know, how to interact with folks, um, who may be, um, diagnosed with that. Um, we would like to install some way finding signage on the COA campus to make it more accessible and friendly for folks who are navigating, um, as well
▶ 3:05 Maya Jamaleddine: as create some print resources. So, um, a resource guide that we could distribute to folks to have in their home that would be kinda like a quick hit, um, you know, general resources in, in the city. And we'd hope to recreate that, um, each year as we, um, can update some of those things as well as, um, a map that would help people navigate the city, um, and locate different resources that would be available to them. Thank you. Do we have any question from counselors? Seeing none, um, I would like to actually, um, suspend the rules so I can ask you as the chair. Um, and seeing no objection, I would, uh, um, I, you know, uh, the rules are now suspended, but I do have a couple questions. Who, uh, would be benefiting from, uh, this program?
▶ 4:05 Maya Jamaleddine: Is it just, um, uh, you know, the members that are participating in your program or citywide? Um, so the great thing about this is that it would be, um, beneficial to not just the aging population, but, um, all residents in Melrose. So, um, those resource guides could be distributed to anyone. They would have, you know, age related materials as well as, um, general resources. Um, and then the goal of age friendly, dementia friendly is to create a welcoming and accessible community for all. So, um, it really would impact, um, all residents, not just older adults. Okay. And do we have any, uh, plan to, for the outreach, uh, for instance, family members that, uh, are caring for someone with dementia, how we can reach out to them?
▶ 4:53 Maya Jamaleddine: Sure. So we already have, um, a caregiver support group hosted at the Milano Center. So, um, we'll plan to start there. Um, but we do have, um, you know, plans to campaign within our newsletter as well. Um, I'm sure the mayor's office would be, um, willing to have us in some of the, um, literature that goes out, like the weekly update and things like that. So, um, we'd hope to pull from, from folks, um, not just from our own membership, but throughout the community. Yes. Awesome. And I, I am aware of, uh, few organizations that do run those programs or do have clients in Melrose, such as Elliot and Mystic Valley. I'm not sure if we have any connection that we can share those information with them so
▶ 5:38 Maya Jamaleddine: that they can also benefit from that program. Absolutely. I app I do appreciate your effort. Um, uh, what is the will of the committee Motion to recommend? Second, We have a motion to recommend made by Councilor Kati, seconded by Vice Chair Williams. Um, Mme. Kirk, Council Ro? Yes. Council Ope. Yes. Council Hamilton? Yes. Councilor Jamine. Yes. Chair Jamine. Councilor Karen Chaney? Yes. Council Armo? Yes. Councillor Stewart? Yes. Council Ver Yes. Council Williams? Yes. And president? Me? Yes. That is nine. Yes. Thank you. This order passes. Thank you so much for being with us. Right. Um, next on our agenda. 10. Yes. Excuse me. 10. Um, 10. Yes. Um, next on our agenda is Grant 2025 dash two. Acceptance of Natural Hazard Mitigation Plan,
▶ 6:38 update Grant from, uh, MEMA and fema, um, to we, yeah. Director, uh, pro Castels with us tonight. Hi. Thank You. Um, so this is a fairly straightforward one. The, um, natural Hazard Mitigation plan is a big and important document for us, uh, that requires an update every five years in order to continue to qualify for FEMA grant funding. And we've just reached the five year mark. Um, FEMA has said that doesn't put into jeopardy any of our grants that we are, that we've recently gotten from them. Um, but we had applied for this funding quite some time ago, and we just finally heard that we achieved, um, that we got the funding. So, um, it's a $30,000 project, 22,500 is the grant, and then there's a $7,500, um, match that we can cover
▶ 7:31 through operating for opera, excuse me, through our operating budget from, um, DPW Admin and Engineering Professional Services is where we would cover it. We did put it out for an RFQ. Um, we have a qualified consultant who submitted and we're ready to award that contract as soon as we get the grant money. Thank you. Um, I have Vice Williams and next, uh, councilor gpe. Thanks. Can you tell me a little bit about the public outreach that's associated with this? Like, what's the character of the outreach? What are the questions being asked? So, last time around five years ago when we did this, we did, we did it in conjunction with the, um, MVP, the Municipal Vulnerability Preparedness Program.
▶ 8:17 And so we did extensive outreach. Um, we are finding that the plan, as we put it together five years ago, most of it is still applicable. The major project that we completed is the generator for city hall and the generators for the sewer pump stations. Um, but in, you know, a handful of small projects here and there. But short of that, like the drainage issues we identified, it's generally all the same areas that we continue to have issues with. Um, so there will be, there will be a committee, there'll be some open meetings for it, and it will also be presented, has to be approved by the council. So there will also be a final meeting presenting to the council. That will be another public meeting.
▶ 8:59 Um, so there will be opportunities for the public to comment. Um, I believe we're also required to post a draft on the website. I think we did that last time too, in solicit comments for a period of time. Um, so that would all be planned for this time around too, but I don't expect it to be quite as robust as it was five years ago, because like I said, I think the information is vastly the same. Okay. Cool. Thank you. Okay. Thank you. Um, councilor gpe. Thank you. Um, Madam Chair, uh, two quick questions. Uh, Eng, um, engineering division, um, picked the consultant. Um, can you tell us the process on that? Yes. So we process, Or We did a full, um, RFP process. So we put a request for proposals in the central Register
▶ 9:46 combines newspaper, website, um, and we advertised opened bids, unfortunately, um, Actually, I'm gonna take a step back. In this instance, I don't believe we went to that, to that same usual length. Um, we solicited from specific contractors, and the reason was that we anticipated that the consultant who wrote the report last time, who we were very pleased with, we expected to submit again, and they did not. So we had solicited from a handful of consultants and we ended up only getting one proposal, um, from Weston Sampson. They are qualified to do the work. It's a team that we felt comfortable with. So apologies for my, uh, starting out with the incorrect information. That's how we do all of our RFPs normally.
▶ 10:33 But this one, we weren't required to do that. So we, um, sort of honed in on a handful of consultants that we felt were qualified for the work. And are you confident that the project will be $30,000 and if you go over, will you become, will you absorb that within your budget? Yes and yes. Okay. Thank you. That's it. Okay. Any other question from my colleagues? What is the will of the committee Motion to recommend? Second, We have a motion to recommend made by Councillor Che, seconded by Vice Chair Williams on discussion. Seeing none. Madam Turk. Councilor Ro? Yes. Councilor Ope. Yes. Councilor Hamilton? Yes. Council Kara Shady? Yes. Councilor Romanul? Yes. Councilor Stewart? Yes. Council Vandiver? Yes.
▶ 11:21 Maya Jamaleddine: Councilor Williams? Yes. President Elli? Yes. Dear Jamal. Yes, It's 10. Yes. Thank you. This, um, uh, order passes. Thank you for being with us tonight. Next is appropriation 2025 dash one and appropriation from contract stabilization, uh, number 84 0 42 in the amount of 363,000 uh, dollars to Department of Public Works. Uh, number 0 1 4 0 2 3 for the replacements of Mars High School skylights. Sorry. Give us one second. Good evening, counselors. Um, I'm here tonight with DPW Director Elena Parus Ellis, and CFO, Carrie Golden to address this request. And I'm gonna turn it over to each of them to talk about their respective areas of expertise, namely the work that we've identified that needs to be done,
▶ 12:20 Jen Grigoraitis: and then our recommendation for where we would like to pay for this from. Um, I just wanted to overarching acknowledge that this is not where we wanna be tonight, is talking about this. I know we had had a lengthy discussion with you all back in May about the desire to do this work and replace the skylights at the high school after one had unexpectedly failed last school year. Um, the work has come in much higher than anticipated in costs. And given that we have no dedicated capital maintenance line in our budget, that is requiring us to make a request to come to you for stabilization money and to be doing that 69 days into the fiscal year. So, um, I just wanna frame it that we're not thrilled
▶ 12:58 Jen Grigoraitis: that this is where we are at, but also really recognize that this is work that absolutely needs to be funded so that we can move forward and hopefully do so and secure the pricing that we've been provided. So I'm gonna turn it over to Elena and Carrie. Elena, do you wanna go first? Sure. Um, so as the mayor said, obviously we don't like being back here asking for more money for a project that we've already requested funding for. Um, at the time when we requested the funding before the project was about to go out to bid, the bid documents were done. We had a hundred percent cost estimate. Um, and then as we proceeded through the bid opening process, we did not receive bids, um, on the skylight portion.
▶ 13:38 We didn't receive a qualifying bid for that. And so we had to carry an allowance in order to sign the contract and then negotiate with the general contractor for the final price. Um, they had to get a sub to do the work. Um, so we're, we're asking for $363,000 that covers the added costs in addition to a $50,000 contingency because we wanna ensure that we will not be back, um, a third time for this item. And so now we have, we have bid numbers in hand. We have a contractor and a subcontractor all ready to do the work. And the position we're in right now is that the lead times on the, um, materials are very long, six plus months. And so we need to order the materials now to be able to do the project next summer.
▶ 14:24 Um, and the manufacturer has said that he'll hold his price until October 1st. So if we don't get through this process in September and get the materials ordered, it will only be more expensive. Um, some of you're probably aware that one of the skylights did fall in, um, at the high school last year. We were actually already working on the bid documents for this project at the time. So it was a need we had identified. Um, but, you know, just makes it that much more visible and that much more critical for us to advance it quickly. Thank you. Great. Um, so I'll just kind of address the funding piece. Um, like the mayor said, uh, we are very early into the fiscal year, and so these are often the most challenging things to, um,
▶ 15:13 fund when these, uh, surprise things pop up. So we did decide to go to the contract stabilization fund just given the balance that is in that fund. Um, when the fund was originally established back in oh six, it was a contractual obligation and salary and wage, um, fund. So, um, I think most of the appropriations that the city council has seen from that has been for, uh, collective bargaining agreements. Um, there was one appropriation for contract last, uh, fiscal year. It was one of the first orders of the fiscal year. Um, it was for $5,000 for the St. Mary's lease that was, um, being negotiated at the time of the contract. Um, if this order is approved, the balance in the capital stabilization,
▶ 16:02 or I'm sorry, the contract stabilization fund will be 670,902. Um, so there's still some money in there. Um, currently on right now, um, I provided a report. I, there's two things that I provided, um, a memo that shows the balances in all the stabilization funds. Um, and then the other piece is a page from our official statement, um, that we have to provide when we go up for bond ratings. And it just identifies, uh, the collective bargaining agreements and where we are, uh, which ones are outstanding. And currently, um, we just have one or, or two contracts for our superiors and patrol that are outta contract for fiscal 2025. Perfect. Thank you. Can I, Madam chair, can I just expand on that a little bit?
▶ 16:55 Jen Grigoraitis: Um, no. So I think recognizing that I sat in one of your seats this time last year. I recognize that we're often before you asking you to make a binary choice of yes or no, but you're not always have the full context of what are the repercussions of that, yes or no. So the benefit of the conversations that we are having up on the second floor is that our known or anticipated known contractual obligations for FY 26, excuse me, FY 25, that we would look to take out of this fund with your approval is any retro pay for our two outstanding contracts, which would be the two police unions that went out of contract meeting. Their current contract expired in June of this past year. So right now we're in a situation where once we settle,
▶ 17:37 Jen Grigoraitis: that contract will be needing to do some sort of back pay. Similar to what you all saw when we settled the fire contract. There are no other city or school contracts that will go out of contract in this current fiscal year. Um, the other cost that we anticipate may come to you all from contract stabilization is that we aren't, we likely will have two retirees from the police department. And contractually those come with fairly significant payouts of vacation time, comp time. And so depending on the total cost of that, we may be looking for that money to be drawn down from here. On the capital side, the issues that were not known that have popped up that we're sort of internally deciding when and how to address, are
▶ 18:16 Jen Grigoraitis: that we have had two police cruisers that have been in accidents, um, and we believe are both total losses in terms of drivability. So at least one of those vehicles we anticipate would absolutely need to be replaced this year. That's the kind of thing that, that we would look to the capital stabilization account, recognizing that that is a fixed thing that we need to purchase and we would hope to have some money from insurance, but it will certainly not be fully covered. Um, the other item that some of you all may be aware is that we've had some, um, structural issues on the Lincoln School playground, not the, um, tot lot that you can see from the main road, but the one behind the building,
▶ 18:54 Jen Grigoraitis: that playground is about 25 years old. We've had, um, former park superintendent Joan Bell out there along with a playground consultant. The useful life of that playground has been met. We're not able to replace any of the components of that playground 'cause they're no longer made. So in order to make that a fully usable, completely inclusive playground by 2024 standards, we would be looking at a total replacement, which we anticipate is around $150,000. Um, that's obviously not a critical capital need in the sense that nothing is structurally failing in a building that we're putting folks in. But clearly we wanna make sure that that school building has an equitable and accessible playground.
▶ 19:33 Jen Grigoraitis: And in reference to what Elena mentioned about lead times, even if money fell from the sky today, we would be looking at that as a project for next summer. So we're recognizing that the further into the fiscal year we go without identifying a funding source for that project, the further we get into next school year before that playground is, um, completely renovated. So none of those are things that you all have to grapple with tonight, but I just wanted to give you the benefit of sort of the other things that we're weighing as potential requests to you all as you look at these files. Thank you. Awesome. I I, I do appreciate the, um, extra additional information, um, uh, provided any question from my colleagues.
▶ 20:15 Ward Hamilton: Okay. I have, um, counselor Hamilton, vice Chair Williams, and Councilor Ver and Councilor Pen Carro. Everyone go Ahead, Madam Chair. And thank you all for being here this evening and through the chair. Um, thank you Ms. Proa Ellis. Thank you also for meeting with me last week to discuss this project and timeline and certainly helped me. Um, this afternoon. I, I was thinking about this and I realized maybe I went through Melrose High School and really didn't look up. I just appreciated the, the, the natural light. So I reached out to Mr. Merrill, the principal, and asked, and, and right about the time that the kids got out, he and I walked up and we took a look. I was, um, very startled and concerned that there is nothing in place
▶ 21:11 Ward Hamilton: to protect people in case another section of that skylight falls out. And I, part of the reason I thought of it was I'm like, what did we do? Did we take them all out? Did we put in overhead protection? And there's nothing? And I would submit to you that there's no way to tell by looking if another panel is gonna drop. And by virtue of the fact that one panel has fallen, we can't claim to be surprised if another one falls. So, um, I thought about that. And, um, this isn't to ambush you in any way, shape or form, and I think you know that. Um, but in looking at the project, uh, which I did when you all shared those documents, it appears that when it's time to do the skylights, part of what the contractor's gonna do is they're gonna erect
▶ 21:55 Ward Hamilton: staging inside the building and then, you know, to work from underneath. And obviously, we're not gonna just crack the glass and let it all drop. So there will be protection and stuff. Could we ask the contractor now because of this safety issue to come in, put the staging, put the overhead protection, it would be like two by eights running across and, uh, you know, plywood. So that one, they've, they've started, they've mobilized. Um, two, we're protecting everybody inside the building. There'll be a change order, there'll be a longer scaffolding rental period. But, um, I'd be very concerned to leave things the way that they are now. I think there's some exposure for the city and nevermind the money part.
▶ 22:38 Like we don't want anyone to get hurt. And, um, so that's, that's my initial observation. I Yeah, that is, that is definitely something that we can look into. We did consider early on, um, if we could either close off hallways during the school year or, um, you know, erect something, uh, allowing us to get up there. But it, as you said, it's scaffolding. It wouldn't be the initial look at it, said that it would take up too much of the scaffolding itself would take up too much of the hallways for those to be usable. And the principal said, there's no way we can function without those hallways in use during the school year. So, but we, we will take absolutely another look at that. Sure. Okay. So he and I looked at that
▶ 23:25 Ward Hamilton: and, you know, I, I do this. And so I think there is a way to use pipe frame staging that you can walk through. Just like when we walk down in front of the Y and there's a staging and there's overhead protection, um, yes, we'd probably have to, it would cost more. What I'm saying to you is, one, you have my commitment to spend more to I, and two, I don't think I need a commitment from you that we're going to do something to protect these kids. I'm ready to vote to support this and really make it happen. We can't leave that and go and consider what we're gonna do. I, I, I would like a commitment tonight that we're gonna do that and we're gonna vote on it tonight and hopefully we all move this forward.
▶ 24:10 Ward Hamilton: But that's scary. We have the $50,000 contingency. Um, so we hopefully that would be able to cover it. I mean, I, I guess I can't commit to something beyond the budget that we're having approved. I would, but if we can do it within the budget, then we can work with the contractor to figure out what they can do. Right. And, and I would say, and I don't, here's where, I don't know how the financing stuff works, but we've got the money now to do it now, and I think you start to find out about free cash in November and then it gets certified February, march. It, I think the additional scaffolding rental based on my experience could be another $50,000. It could be a little bit more. Um, I'm, whatever it takes, we need
▶ 24:54 Ward Hamilton: to protect the kids, but there's probably a way to to fashion it into the project already. Um, so I would strongly, I, I would like that commitment tonight that we're gonna, and if not, what are we going to do? Because I, that's, that's all for now. Okay. Thank you. Thank You. You're welcome. Next I have the Vice Chair Williams. Thank you. Um, I confess, I don't remember when we talked about this, uh, you said it was about a year ago that that skylight fell through? No, it was less than that. And we, we actually talked about it during free cash in the spring at our budget hearing. That's, so I actually, what I don't remember is the actual date that this light fell That I, I don't know the exact date,
▶ 25:36 Ryan Williams: but it was in the spring. Yeah, it was during the school day. The, um, the personnel at the school, the custodians and the principal could hear some cracking and, um, so cleared the area. Yeah. And then I guess about 15 minutes later it fell, it's a tempered glass, so it heavy shatters into a million little pieces and they swept it up and, and then got up on the roof and um, and boarded it up. Just that one. So that one hole just has a board over it right now. So, and I'm looking at the, um, at the one of the two A and it says several contractors and engineered, evaluated the skylights and they're beyond their life cycle. I should lean forward. They're beyond their life cycle and in need of replacement.
▶ 26:21 Ryan Williams: So I guess my, like, my question on this, and I, I know that we've inherited a lot of this stuff 'cause these are old, right? And like everybody in the room has inherited this stuff, but it, are we worried that there are other dangerous architectural elements that are beyond their life cycle? And, you know, can we, you know, do you get the receipts and say, Hey, everything that was installed in this state, we need to go up and evaluate it. I, you know, I don't know what's up there, but are there other risks, other concerns that, um, About This stuff? So maybe not a risk in the same way of, of something, you know, falling into the school, but the entire learning commons roof needs to be replaced.
▶ 27:03 And that was, that's actually where this project started. So the first time we appeared before the council, we were requesting money to do a roof evaluation of the Ripley, the Franklin, and the learning commons. Um, when the architects from Gale got up there and viewed the condition of the skylights, um, they said, you know, this is also a high need. So we added it into their scope to evaluate that as well. And they completed that evaluation. The Franklin roof was well over a million dollars multimillion dollars. The, um, and the Franklin also has many masonry needs. The high school, the learning commons roof by itself was about $3 million. Um, the skylights were estimated to be about 600,000,
▶ 27:45 which is why we said, okay, let's use that money we have right now for this. Um, and then the Ripley roof is so far beyond its useful life and, and is a whole different discussion. So, um, there are deferred maintenance needs all over the city. And I, I've been saying this, uh, for as long as I've been in this position that without a recurring capital line item, either in the, um, the operating budget or a set bonding amount, that's just set aside in the model for, for continuous facility maintenance. We just keep kicking the can down the road and we have a lot of needs. Yeah, I hear that there's definitely a big need for a robust capital improvement program that's funded. Yes. Yes, yes. That is funded. Yes. We're
▶ 28:31 Ryan Williams: Good at identifying the needs. Yes. I think, I think everybody, I hope everybody around the table shares that, um, concern. The second question I have is with regard to the contract stabilization fund and the targets that we set for that fund, you know, where is that? Are we gonna be able to recover that money and meet those contract, the, the meet the target that we've set for that fund in the fiscal year? Are we worried that we're gonna run it a little thin? Sue? Um, we are anticipating that we will have free cash this year, um, for fiscal 24. Um, we'll find out in late fall, um, of 2024. So typically when, um, we look at free cash, we try to, we invest, we try to, uh, up to 20% back into stabilization funds.
▶ 29:24 Ryan Williams: So we would be looking to replace, um, whatever we can based on other deeds though. Um, we kind of look at free cash as a package and other things that have come up. So we would hope to be able to put money back in. Yeah. So I, in a way you're kind of like, you're, you're addressing the most important needs as fast as you can in this case. 'cause there's such a threat. Mm-Hmm. Um, and then rather than wait for free cash to come in and then apply, you know, to capital projects, you're paying for it now and then reimbursing the fund. Right. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense to me. You alright? No questions. Thank you. Thank you. Um, counselor Vandiver, Thank you. And do we need to gavel into the next meeting
▶ 30:03 Kimberly Vandiver: for before I continue? Are we okay? We have 10 more minutes. We Have time. Okay. Um, thank you. Uh, I guess my question about this is, it seems important but not essential that I get done immediately. I understand there's a lead time and it has to be committed to, to get it done. Um, but you know, when this vote happened in June and people weren't interested in, in a larger budget, I, I think what people to some extent were voting for is, you know, living with the exact budget put down and, and all of the list of, of things that were presented to them of, we won't have a capital budget. We won't have these positions, we won't have this, we won't have that. Um, so I wonder if, you know, we said that there would be
▶ 30:46 Jen Grigoraitis: some, some tough re you know, consequences of that vote. And I wonder if this would logically be one of them and whether it's worth trying to make it all come together kind of outside of the budget or if we should be, you know, allowing some things to be missed that are, that are not mission critical. So I I think this is mission critical. I mean, I think we have recognized that this is a real concern. The skylights I think are 50. They're original to the school, original to the building. So about 50 years old. Um, one of them has already failed. We have no identification for what won't we put 900 kids a day in that building. Um, not almost none of them had the ability to vote for the financial future of this community.
▶ 31:34 Jen Grigoraitis: So I certainly don't wanna, you know, make, you know, have that reality carried out on their safety. So I I hear you. And I think part of what we're starting to recognize is that free cash, which has been sort of this city's safety valve for projects like this, um, given the realities of, um, you know, public construction and the increasing lead times for everything is that that almost doesn't allow us to be nimble enough to bid these projects, get contractors on board and stand up the work in the eight week period when we don't have buildings full of kids. So I think I recognize that it, it's incredibly frustrating. I say this as the mayor and as someone who puts a kid in that building every day
▶ 32:11 Jen Grigoraitis: as a high school student, that we're not gonna be turning around and doing this work tomorrow, but if we make this decision soon, then we can definitively do this work as soon as possible. Whereas if we wait until late fall or the winter when free catch is certified, we're likely beginning another school year where this is still a safety concern. And just to, um, circle back to Counselor Hamilton's concerns, we will absolutely be looking into everything we can do and have had multiple conversations with the superintendent and we'll reevaluate what we need to do to make the building obviously as structurally safe as possible given the realities that we're operating in. Mm-Hmm. I think if I could just add to that too, that the, um,
▶ 32:50 these types of capital projects, any of these capital projects, they don't ever come out of the operating budget the way the operating budget is structured. And even if the overrided passed, this would not be something that would ever have been funded from even the revised operating budget. Um, these are always capital asks. Um, if with my comment earlier about a recurring capital line item, that would be amazing if someday we were to get there. Um, but this is, this would've been independent of the override even had it passed. We don't have, um, in the facilities budget, it's all maintenance and custodial and, you know, it's day to day stuff, capital projects sit outside of that. Okay. And is there any, you know, just in the interest of,
▶ 33:38 of, of limiting spending is there, is there, you know, a version that's safe but not beautiful or safe but not full of light or anything like that that's Less expensive? No, we're already, yeah, we're already going with the least expensive option of, I was, I was a proponent initially of putting back in very similar, um, tempered glass because to have the maximum amount of light coming in. Um, and the consultants told us that was easily several hundred thousand more. So we didn't even bid the project with that option. We had to bid it with the, the Cal Wall Pro product, which is, um, or similar product, which is like a sort of translucent glass. Okay. Okay. That's helpful to know and, and the direction as well that,
▶ 34:18 Manjula Karamcheti: that's gonna end up going in. Okay. Thank you. Thank you Counselor Vandiver. Next. Counselor Karani. It's my turn. Okay. Um, so I clearly this is a safety issue and Mayor Gita, I think you spoke to the things that I was feeling about the situation. Uh, so I really appreciate you like naming it that it is a critical situation. It has to be addressed. Our kids are in the building. I think what I'm just trying to understand, and I don't have the expertise that Counselor Hamilton has in terms of, um, like process, but I think I'm just trying to wrap my head around. We have a 50-year-old building that we had proactively identified as needing some significant work, and yet here we are, like in this emergency situation right now.
▶ 35:10 Manjula Karamcheti: So I'm just like, timeline calendar prevention. I'm just struggling with that piece of where we are right now. And I, I don't have like the expertise to understand how this happens and why, but I'm just struggling with that in terms of like how we prioritize and how we plan to like, prevent things like tempered glass falling in the middle of a hallway where kids go. So I don't know how to ask it any better than that. And I'm not trying to attack anyone. I just like, how are we prioritizing these things and proactively dealing with them to avoid crisis situations where we're waiting for paperwork and funding to make sure that kids are safe. Like it just yeah, I think isn't making sense to me.
▶ 36:02 I think I can explain the timeline. Um, so when we approved the, um, the funding for the roof evaluation, we initiated, we went out to, um, for proposals. We hired Gail Architects to do the work. Um, they completed their, uh, their study July 20th, 2023 is the date on their final report. So that was the Ripley, the, um, Franklin and the learning commons roof and the skylights. So we were attempting to be proactive. This was long before anything ever fell in. Um, as soon as we got their report last July, we identified what we expected that we had the funding for based on their preliminary cost estimates. They were very preliminary, but we had to say, okay, this is the money that we have from an old bond.
▶ 36:50 We had 416,000, we'd asked for another a hundred thousand from for toward the roof. Um, so we knew we had that money and then we knew we had to get this little piece of the Franklin roof done. So we amassed this project, we decided to put it all in one bid package to try to be, um, more economical, um, with the design, the bidding and everything, just having one contractor. So the design phase for any of these projects takes a minimum of six months. That's six months is a pretty quick design because you go through multiple phases. They produce 30%, 90%, a hundred percent, they get cost estimates at each of those milestones. They go back and forth with us as the client. Um, so any sort of building design in a six month
▶ 37:32 timeframe is actually pretty quick. Um, and that's about the timeframe that we used for the design. Then we put the project out to bid. Public bidding requires you open, you advertise everything that takes a few weeks, then you open filed sub bids for all the, the trades and then you have to give the general contractor another couple weeks to put their bid in incorporating all those trade prices. Um, so we opened bids in May and that was a pretty quick turnaround from July. Having a report to May. I would say the skylight that fell was probably in March, April if I don't remember the exact timeframe. But we were already well along our way in designing and bidding this project. Um, when we opened bids in May, we expected to be able
▶ 38:19 to award a contract and order the materials right away. Um, and our hope was that we would be able to install this summer, but with lead times on, on the, um, materials being five, six months and the building being occupied, you know, we only had that one window of time we realized where we didn't get a sub bidder for the skylights and we had to go back and, and negotiate with the contractor. Um, that process took a couple of months, but we realized already at that point there was no way we were gonna make it for this summer. So then we had, you know, a few months to, to work on it, but there's nothing we can do to expedite it faster than next summer short of shutting down this whole section
▶ 39:03 Manjula Karamcheti: of the school while the work takes place. And that's not feasible with the, with students. So I guess I will just echo what, uh, counselor, um, Hamilton said, and also Mayor Greg, what you lift it up, that we can't wait a year for safety to be put in place. I mean, school has already started. We probably should have done something before school started just in terms of prevention, knowing that it could potentially happen again. So I just wanna echo that sentiment of even using some of the money that we might potentially approve today to do some of that work and then moving forward once we know more, I guess. Thank you. Next, uh, councilor Ro. Um, actually you, you asked a question that I was looking
▶ 39:55 Cal Finocchiaro: for that timeline of, you know, the bid and the, um, the costs that came out of that. Um, so I'm just trying to understand. We signed a contract with Greenwood Yes. Not knowing how or having a con a subcontractor that actually had a cost for the skylights. So we signed a contract using the allowance price that the architects had originally, the way the public bidding works, if you don't add of any qualified sub uh, filed sub bidders, you can carry an allowance and still award the contract, but then you have to negotiate with the contractor for the final price. So, but that allowed us, what it allowed us to do. The reason we signed the contract was because it also included the Franklin work and the Franklin work has to happen before winter.
▶ 40:39 And so we had to award the contract, um, and then work with them on the final price. Um, we did have a subcontractor in that time though, who provided a price where they could do the work. Um, so we now have that subcontractor who's planning on doing the work as a sub to Greenwood. So we haven't signed, we'll have to sign a change order for that difference between the allowance and the final subcontractor price. Um, and so we haven't signed that. We can't sign that until we have the approval for the money. Okay. And, and so do you, your office create, do you create the, the bid documents that go out? So Gail Architects created the bid documents. Okay. This is, uh, far more detailed than our in-house capabilities.
▶ 41:25 Okay. And why do you think there was such a big discrepancy? Just 'cause of timing or, So part of it is the lack of competition, the fact that no contractors were interested in this particular project. You know, if you don't have any sub bidders, then there's no, um, competition for the work. But the other thing that, that the architects were telling us the reason why their number was so far off, I guess several of the manufacturers of this, these types of products, there's typically competition for the actual vendors. Um, but I guess one company has now bought up their competitors and this is a recent development. And so there's not, there aren't choices. We have, we have a spec that, you know,
▶ 42:06 dictates a certain type of product and now there's only really one company making that product. So they can name their price. So they're Like monopolizing it and Ba basically giving Us a, A price. Yeah. Okay. That was my questions. Thank You. You're welcome. Thank you counselor. Uh, I actually would like, go ahead Madam Chair. I'd like to be able, we have to, uh, gavel into this Council meeting. So, uh, we have, um, I would like to make a motion for recess to go to full council. Um, I'll make that motion to CFO council. So we have, uh, a motion to recess made by counselor, uh, seconded by Vice Chair Williams on discussion, seeing none. We're now recess, Spin around right for coming. Good evening. The time is eight 14 on Monday,
▶ 49:17 Maya Jamaleddine: bad, said yes. We are back. And um, the rules are still suspended. Um, I have, I was in there somewhere. Um, so I have counselor, counselor for pen. Are you done with your questions? I'm, thank you. So I have counselor and counselor Stewart, and then for the second time, uh, and then Counselor Romano. And then for the second time is Vice Chair Williams and President. Thank you Madam Chair. Um, I, I don't, I'm, I'm not, um, I mean I support this order. My concern is, I was glad to hear it today, was taking it outta the contract stabilization. Um, I think, I don't want to get down a road where we start. I think it was the intent was, as we said, was all for contracts on that and we have capital stabilization now
▶ 50:24 Mark Garipay: May gave us a little more clarification on what we have coming down. So, um, one thing I would like and you had mentioned, we typically use free cash. Looking at the amount of contracts we have, which is probably 85% of the employees in the city that will be coming up in FY 2026 that we at least make a commitment. We replenish the contract stabilization with the amount we're taking out today. I would, I would like to see a commitment. I understand it's pending on funding, but based historically where we've been over the last number of years, I would think we would be able to get this back up here. It does concern me that we have 80% of the contracts or employees, uh, on, that'll be under contract.
▶ 51:07 Jen Grigoraitis: That could leave us with a lot of exposure. So Absolutely. I'm happy to make that commitment. With the caveat pending funding, I mean I think we are anticipating free cash to be, because it's based on FY 24, whereas we will see an FY 26 a much a greatly reduced amount of free cash because we raised our local receipts to close the school budget gap. Um, but we're anticipating we should be in the 3, 4, 4 3 and a half to $4 million range. Okay. So yeah, we would look to replenish stabilization accounts accordingly, and we certainly recognize that, um, we're in the column before the storm as it relates to, um, collective bargaining. Um, thank you. Um, alright. And then just going back to the project itself, um,
▶ 51:56 Mark Garipay: Gail and Associates, we hired them 250,000 to come up with a design back a few years ago. Correct. 150,000 to do the evaluation of the three locations and then a hundred thousand approximately. Actually our total contracts that we've signed with them are a little bit less than that. It's just right around 200,000 between the evaluation and the design. Okay. And the note, it's, uh, and then, uh, you were before us on April 29th in appropriations about the original four, that second 400,000, but it, there was 250,000 we were talking about. But um, yeah, There was 250 originally and some of that is construction services as well. So that hasn't been spent yet. And, And, uh, so what, what I'm, what I'm struggling with,
▶ 52:42 Mark Garipay: and like I said, this has to get done. I'm supporting it. I mean, but we can't continue to continue to get down this road and keep on coming back from money. I mean, we have, we paid them 250,000. They were the estimator, right? A sub to them was the estimator PM and C, Whoever we paid. How, how are we that far off? When you were in front of us on April 29th, you said this will get us there. Mm-Hmm. And then we opened the bids on May, May 9th was the, was the bid. So we knew on May 9th we weren't gonna meet that number. So, uh, I'm, I'm struggling and here we are. The school year's already started. 'cause it was a commitment that we were gonna get that done when, when you were in front of us.
▶ 53:25 And here we are in September, we have a building that now I'm really concerned. I mean, I that, that it may not be safe. I I'm like, I'm, I'm shocked. We were as surprised as as you are about the, the escalation of costs between what the estimator gave us and where the bids came in. And unfortunately we just don't have any control over that. We have to trust the professionals that we're hiring and PM and c is a very reputable, um, cost estimator. So for them to be that far off is unusual. And that was the explanation that we got about the consolidation of the manufacturers and the lack of a com a competitive bid. And so if the bids were open in May mm-Hmm. When did we find out that it was gonna take five months to get skylights?
▶ 54:19 I mean, I would've thought that that would've, if you were committing on April 29th that we were gonna have it done, I would've thought those conversations were going on during this whole process. They certainly were, but without a, without a subcontractor who's available to do the work and without, you know, the ones, they're the ones who are ordering the materials and they're telling us that's what the lead times are. We didn't have anybody under contract. So, you know, should Gail have known that the lead times were gonna be longer, perhaps? Um, they've been fantastic to work with though on other projects. I mean, they did Memorial Hall. I think people have been generally happy with them there.
▶ 54:56 Mark Garipay: We've been very happy with them other than these issues on the, on the skylights. Everything else they've done has been very high quality and they've been very responsive. So, you know, we rely on them and I mean, they're the experts. We're paying 'em a lot of money. I'm just about, um, I'm struggling with it. I'm not, I'm not a contractor, so I don't, I don't know the total process, but I would, you know, whatever. Um, so we had looked at doing, you were in front of us on the 29th, you had mentioned that to do the whole high school roof was $3 million. Uh, roughly Not The whole, the learning commons roof and the school roof. I'm Sorry. Learning commons roof. Yeah. So, and now we're into this for over a,
▶ 55:46 Mark Garipay: almost over a million, right? 1.2, 1.3 million now. Yeah. Their original estimate I have here was 3.1103 million, um, to replace the existing roofing and skylights and perform mason masonry repairs in the, um, in the learning common area and the skylights. So, and this is probably for, for for Carrie, but we're into it for a million. It's costing a little bit more. Is there any duplication? Would it make sense to, I mean, I guess we're now it's kind of emergency state, but to do the whole roof now and bond it. So this Would solve leaks, right? This would qualify for MSBA accelerated repair. So we plan to apply for it for next year, um, for the remainder of the roof as well as the Franklin roof.
▶ 56:32 Um, that would get us about 50% of the costs paid for by the state. So it's hard to pass up that kind of money to advance a project more quickly. So our hope is that we would be back before the council actually probably this winter, requesting authorization to apply for MSBA and then provided that Carrie says that we have the bonding capacity to cover our portion. But that is our hope for both Franklin and, um, the learning commons that we can get those funds from MSBA. So back, I read this, it said we, uh, they went up and replacement, um, you had engineers up there, um, when they originally did the assessment of the roof. Right. And that's when we noticed that the, the, um, the skylights needed work.
▶ 57:25 Well we asked them to look at the skylights as Well. Okay. Ha Have we had anyone, um, go up and take a look and say that they are safe and put it in writing for us? Any engineer? So we have had folks go up and take a look and advise us on whether they thought we had immediate needs. They didn't feel we had immediate needs, but we don't have something in writing. I can't imagine that any architect is gonna put something in writing saying that they guarantee that we're not gonna have an issue between now and next. Exactly. That's why I think we need to figure out how to make the school safe right now for the, for the students like tomorrow. Um, I, I'll give more questions. I, I I'll come back.
▶ 58:10 Robb Stewart: Thank you. Um, councilor Stewart. Thank you Madam Chair. Thank you all for being here this evening. Appreciate it. Uh, just, and Madam Mayor, thank you for the help this morning that, uh, uh, I got through our conversation. I was clarifying what I'd like to do is, uh, talk a little bit about the, the contract stabilization fund, just so that we're all on the same page of where we're gonna land given some of the fairly immediate needs that are coming forward to us. Right? So you say that the 360 3 brings it down to six 70, then we have the two retirees. Um, any estimate, like rough estimate on what that would hit? Contract stabilization? It's 20 50, 80. I don't have an estimate at this point in time,
▶ 58:59 Robb Stewart: but I know that they've been here for over 25 years. So, um, with their collective bargaining agreement. Right. I imagine it's pretty substantial. So I would say under a hundred. Under a hundred for the two. Okay. Yeah. And then on the, the retro pay for, uh, the ne negotiation with, uh, the police force, um, do you anticipate that to be anywhere near $500,000? So I think we have to be careful about getting too close to exact numbers since we're currently in negotiations. Negotiations. Fair enough. Fair enough. Lemme lemme withdraw that question then. Yeah, I, I, so, but, um, just based on his historical, um, negotiations, uh, do you feel confident that we have the buffering to be able to, uh, handle
▶ 59:50 Jen Grigoraitis: that with a remaining balance on here? I think that's a fair better way to ask the question For this fiscal year. Yes. Yes. Okay. I think what I feel less, I think we could make requests to you tonight that would drain capital stabilization to zero between the matter that's before you and then the identified needs that we just talked about. Not necessarily all of which we can or will stand up before free cash comes down. But, you know, I think the reality, um, of these public construction projects is it, it's a quarter of a million dollars for us to do almost any type of repair to any building. I know you all saw in some of the free cash requests. I mean, when we talk about roofs and things, even just, um, repairs, we're in the 10,
▶ 1:00:32 Robb Stewart: we're in the hundreds of thousands of dollars. Right. Great. Um, thank you for that. And then shifting over to capital stabilization, uh, you have the $150,000 for the playground that you want to identify, uh, over Lincoln School and then two police cars or costs for those police cars. I think they run about 70 once it's, Um, okay. So another 150 covid and Yeah. So that puts us at about 3 28, um, as a, as a balance. Are we comfortable with a, a capital stabilization at 3 28? I know, Mean, given It's a relative question, right. But Yeah. Yeah. I mean, given the condition and, um, of some of the buildings and stuff, no. So we would look to put more money in that as well. Okay. But the alternative is if we hit those two
▶ 1:01:24 Robb Stewart: and then we came to 360 3, uh, from that based on those other, we would be draining capital to zero. So I just, I want to level set on that. Um, so I'll support this, uh, based on these facts. Um, just a couple of remaining questions that I had on, is the Franklin School roof replacement done? It's in progress. The, the, um, we're in still the shop drawing submittal review process, but, um, we've kicked it off with the contractor. They're submitting their shop drawings, they're gonna be submitting a schedule. They feel confident that they can do the work while the building's occupied. They might have a little bit of Saturday work or early morning work, um, that they need to do to, but they, they have assured us
▶ 1:02:07 Robb Stewart: that they feel they can get it done before the winter, which is our, our major need. Right, right. And as, uh, Mr. Troop had mentioned in his memo, uh, you have the four 16 and two 50 plus the, the requested 360 4, which is just over a million bucks to cover both projects. What's the draw on, on that number for Franklin versus what's gonna be remaining? So the skylights in total from the subcontractor are roughly 720,000 mm-Hmm. Um, but then it's hard to break out. So Greenwood Industries bid, it's hard to break out specifically what's Franklin and what's the skylights because they're, um, you know, all of their overhead, their general contractor overhead. Um, that's not, it's not itemized.
▶ 1:03:03 It's a lump sum bid for, um, just a handful of items in the bid form. So it's really hard to pull the, those numbers out. Um, so where we had the, where we had the amount we needed to award the base contract with the allowance, we decided to consider the money we have paying for all of Franklin plus a piece of the skylights, and then this remainder that we're requesting pays for the remainder of the skylights. So it's a little hard to kinda tease out all the exact numbers. Um, that's something I can certainly get for you if you Want that. Just, um, 'cause then I look at contingency and then how do you manage contingency, right. Because you're sort of, you're, you're overlapping and, and you may get surprised.
▶ 1:03:48 Robb Stewart: So, uh, just a word of caution on that. Um, and you brought up an interesting point on the MSBA, uh, on that accelerated repair money. Mm-Hmm. Um, what's the anticipated size of that, uh, revenue stream for, for, uh, roof repair? Do you have any idea? So It's, it's a little bit less than 50% as far as I remember from the horseman and the Hoover roofs. Um, it might be, it's, yeah, I think it's 40 something percent typically Of, of the total cost or of the Total Cost. So that means, Well, of the total eligible costs, sometimes they'll say like one little piece or another is not eligible. But for the most part, the projects typically are Eligible somewhere between 1.2 and 1.5 million and then Okay.
▶ 1:04:32 For the high school portion. For the high school portion. Right, right. Yeah. And, um, would they have to re redo any of the skylights when they do that full roof? No. So that was the same with the Franklin, that was part of the process. Once we completed this initial report before we decided what was gonna go into the actual design and bid documents. Okay. Um, was picking out work that would not be disrupted in any other, in any way from future work. So, um, that's why the Franklin work includes a tiny bit of masonry above the roof that they're replacing because there was no way to do that masonry work later without disrupting the new roof. Um, so in both cases we tried to include only what could be a self-contained project
▶ 1:05:19 Devin Romanul: that wouldn't be disrupted by the future larger project. Okay. Great. Thank you. Very helpful. Thank you Madam Chair. Thank you Councilor Romanul. Thank you. Um, thank you so much for coming and I, I got a lot of my questions, uh, answered. So I I have just one. Um, do we have a sense of what the total deferred maintenance on all city properties are? I know you've mentioned a lot of priorities tonight, but it's just helpful for me to think about, like, I know that's a moving target and I know it's escalating over time, but I just, it it would be really helpful information as we think about some of the priorities that you've listed here tonight. Yeah, I think there's a couple ways of looking at it.
▶ 1:05:58 One is the CIP process that we've done each year. DPW has submitted on average 90 to a hundred projects a year. And that's across, that's not just building projects. That's also that in the world, paving sidewalks. Um, but I would say at least half of those are building projects. But the, those are being submitted typically as replacement projects. But then there's a whole other element of, um, like on the building side, everybody's moving toward electrification, especially on the HVAC systems. So then you're looking at, you know, if we say it would cost us 200,000 to put in a new XY or Z-H-V-A-C component to do the electrified version of that, maybe double the cost. We get some incentives back from National Grid.
▶ 1:06:48 But, so there's so many ways to look at, you know, what that total cost is for the whole city, for all the schools, um, that it would be hard to put one number on it. Maybe a range would be Range will be fabulous, Would be feasible. Um, but yeah. And MSBA is now saying like, on the HVAC components, if you're not going electric, they're not gonna pay for any of those projects. So, you know, now you have to plan if you want that 40 to 50%, you have to plan for full electrification while you're, while you're at it. So, um, yeah, a lot of moving parts. But I can also say on the CIP end, when we did the CIP process, um, about a year, year and a half ago with the call center, um, the year one free cash allocation alone,
▶ 1:07:39 if I remember the number, and I dunno if you do, but I, I believe it was 7.4 million that were FY 24 at the time. These, this was during FY 23, these were the identified FY 24 projects that they thought should be funded through free cash. They had another list for bonding and another list for debt exclusions. And I remember that number 7.4 million was their fiscal 24 only. It was a five year plan, and that was just one year. And obviously we don't even come close to that with available free cash. Yeah. Excellent. And I'll just reiterate the feedback from my colleagues that whatever we can do to support doing this project expeditiously and, and perhaps even some of the earlier mitigation, um,
▶ 1:08:19 Leila Migliorelli: tactics, we happy to keep that conversation going. Thank you so much. Thank You. Thanks. Um, president gl Thank you Madam Chair. Um, some of my questions have been answered, but just, um, during Councilor Rae's, something that I just, I thought I heard. So were you aware, you were aware on May 9th that this was going to be, the cost was gonna be more than what we had? We, we had to get, we had allocated for you? So We opened bids, I, I'll have to check the exact date, but we opened bids sometime in May, May 9th. Might have been the bid opening for the filed sub bids. Yes. You had. Um, which really doesn't, that's not the final bid opening. Um, sub sorry, sorry to cut you off. The sub bids were filed for the project on May 2nd
▶ 1:09:07 and the general bid opening on May 9th. And I, I thought I heard you say that on May 9th, but that's why I wanted to clarify that you knew that it was gonna be morning more money at that point. Is that true? No. Well, we knew that we had no, we knew we had no filed sub bidders Okay. For that component of the work. So we opened the general bids with the allowance, but we had no idea on like what the scale would be to actually accomplish the work. So the allowance was based on the cost estimate from the architects from their subcontractor. Okay. Um, so we did not, then we had, through the course of June, um, we had contractors visiting the school who were possible subs for Greenwood. Um, or at least we were trying to set up visits.
▶ 1:09:55 We only had one contractor who ultimately came through and then one other contractor who ultimately is the one who gave us the price. But, um, we were in the process in June was trying to get prices for Greenwood to be able to do the change order to find out what the difference would be between the allowance and the final bid. Um, so that was continuing. We were still into July. We were still waiting for Jackson Glass. Who was the other, we have Suburban Glass and Jackson Glass. Were the two who were gonna give us prices. Mm-Hmm. Um, we were waiting into July for Jackson. They still never gave us a price. So now we just have the price from Suburban. And we're, um, planning on awarding that if we get this money, we're planning on awarding
▶ 1:10:37 Leila Migliorelli: that we were hopeful that Jackson would come in with a lower number. So, and until the point when we had actual numbers, we weren't gonna come back before the council and, and request funding to avoid coming back multiple times. Yeah. That makes, that makes sense. That part makes sense. I think, um, just to what others have said about making the building safe in the meantime, um, knowing that, and I don't know how long it takes to, to fortify and secure the, the skylights so they're not falling on people. Um, you know, know, is that something that like, I just, I feel like maybe something we should have been able to start at the beginning of the summer, um, knowing that we were headed in this direction in which we didn't
▶ 1:11:22 have any, um, any bids. So our, Our recommendation from the architects throughout the summer has been that we don't need to do anything to secure the, the existing silos. Okay. So that's a little bit of my hesitation to commit that we are going to do something extensive. Okay. 'cause the recommendation we've been given is that they should be okay until we replace them, especially with some routine inspections or, you know, continual, maybe minor maintenance. Um, but certainly if, if we agree on the costs tonight, and then we can get this, this sub bidder under contract through Greenwood ASAP, if we can sign that change order, then we have them under contract to us where they could, you know, we could ask them, can you expedite putting in
▶ 1:12:12 Ryan Williams: the, the scaffolding? Can you put something, even if it's some sort of tarping system or something up there to, to catch any debris that might fall. I'm not sure what they would recommend, but, um, we can't even have those conversations with the subcontractor until we have them under contract. Okay. Thank you. Thank you, uh, for the second time, vice Chair Williams. Thank You. Sorry to come back. I just, I thought of something. I was looking through the memo. How old are these skylights? They're original to the building, about 50 years old. Um, and that's, that's old. Yeah, that's old. Um, I, I noticed in the document that we said the skylights should last a minimum of 25 years, probably closer to 50 years.
▶ 1:12:54 Ryan Williams: It's a huge gap. It's a huge amount of time. Um, how long are they warrantied to last or guaranteed to last? That I'd have to look into. Okay. Okay. But I will say the 25 years is what the manufacturer says. Yeah. They should last. And then the 50 years is the reality of how long we tend to keep things and, uh, and how long they typically can last. Yeah. Um, for architectural features or mechanical, um, you know, building elements that are identified as being like midlife or well beyond their, or into the end of their useful life. Like you say, you know, you got a chiller and it was installed, you know, 1964 or something ridiculous, you know, long before any of us were, um, were around here.
▶ 1:13:45 Ryan Williams: Do you accelerate the maintenance rather? I'm sorry, the inspections of these items? Do you, you know, do you, if you know that we've got skylights on the roof that are 50 years old, do you start doing annual inspections at like 40 years or 45 years? And if that is true, you know, how do you miss a skylight that is presumably so soft that, you know, the wood is so soft or something has happened that the thing can just like imminently collapse under its own weight? I don't feel that I have the expertise to answer that specific question because in reading Gail's report on the skylights, there are so many components Sure. That, you know, there's the sealants and the, there, there, you know, held in by metal,
▶ 1:14:29 Ryan Williams: some sort of metal brackets on the outsides. And there's so many components I don't feel comfortable saying, you know, how you miss it or how you identify it. That's just not my area. Do you feel, do you feel like the city is, uh, able to make a determination on some of these more technical, um, without, without an outside consultant? No. We would rely on, we would rely on either the contractor or the consultant to tell us, you know, if something was more or less concerning. Yeah. Yeah. So generally you wouldn't have, I mean, I, I I'm assuming this so please correct me, don't let me speak for you, but would you, you would not call a contractor unless something was wrong? No, that's not necessarily the case. Okay. Yeah.
▶ 1:15:08 We have contractors who we work with regularly, sort of as consultants. Okay. Um, we have some roofing contractors that we've solicited opinions from. Um, actually the company Suburban Glass, who's ultimately giving us the price for the skylights, they're the ones who did the Franklin windows. And so Jay has worked with them before. They just fixed the, um, flashing for the, around, around the windows for the middle school gym issue. So they're a contractor that I see Jay calls and asks opinions because he has a good working relationship with them. Okay. I mean, do you feel, do you feel confident that we can identify the severity of deferred maintenance problems before they leak or have visible signs like that we're able to inspect,
▶ 1:15:56 to identify, I guess is what, Across the city? Across the, yeah. Yeah. That We're able, that we're able to conduct enough inspections, giving our staffing levels to see things coming. Yeah. I mean We have, you know, I can tell you for sure the Winthrop roof is in a critical situation. The Franklin Masonry is in a critical situation. Um, the boiler at the Ripley, if we keep that building in service for another, I think that their contract goes another two years. That boiler isn't a critical situation. We, we know of a lot of needs that are critical, but we just, our hands are tied from a funding perspective. Right. And, um, you know, I mean, frankly it is a very frustrating position for Jay McNeil, our facilities manager,
▶ 1:16:41 to be in, because he is constantly bringing issues to everybody's attention. And he can only go so far. He can, you know, use his expertise or use his contacts to come and look at something and say how bad it is and how much longer it's gonna last. And, and, you know, he's on the edge of a seat Yeah. All the time. And he is just one guy. Yeah. And, and you know, each, each individual project also, typically for these larger capital projects, it involves a study phase and then a design phase and then bidding and then execution of the contract. And that takes, you know, a year plus for a lot of things. So we're constantly in this position where we're identifying needs and unable to fix them. And it's a, there's just a snowball effect of it.
▶ 1:17:28 Ryan Williams: Speaking of money, I was reading through this and I realized that I was missing the Marijuana Stabilization Fund, but it's in there, it's 84 10. Right. It's called Education. Education Public Safety. Public Safety Health. It's got $250,000 in it. Is there any appetite to use any of that money to do something like this for a one time, one time quick fix for the schools? Well, that would require us still to, you all would have to approve multiple requests from stabilization accounts. 'cause that's not sufficient to cover what's before you tonight. Yeah. Um, I mean, what we have been doing with that fund over the past couple of years is using it to help stabilize the school budget. So, and that, as you all know,
▶ 1:18:04 Jen Grigoraitis: that money is not replenishing at the rate it previously had been 'cause of the changes in state law. So that's, um, I mean it's certainly money that's available for smaller capital needs related to education, public safety or health. But we felt like we'd be asking you to do like a split border, which felt a little messy And maybe keep your powder dry on that one knowing that we're gonna be tight on the school budget. Okay. Alright. I thank you very much. No questions. Thank you. Next Councilor Ra Sorry, I'll be really quick with this. I, um, the 363,000, is that like, that's, that's it. Like is there a built-in Buffer if they get up there and they find there's something else going on, There's $50,000 of contingency.
▶ 1:18:47 Okay. But that would cover anything if it's, you know, anything we do in the interim. Um, anything unexpected. Okay. Yeah. Any change orders And it's Suburban that's doing the Way Suburban Glass is the sub supplier who we expect to sign on as the sub for, for Greenwood Industries. And they feel confident that they can get this done for that amount. You don't think they're gonna come Back in? I, I think we're anticipating one small change order already from, um, the, the manufacturer of the Skylight component system, um, wants to do something slightly different than what's on the drawings that they think is, is preferred. So we're working, we're back and forth with the, um, architects to identify if
▶ 1:19:30 that's gonna result in a small change order. But I'm hoping that would be not eating into the contingency too much. Okay. Alright. Thanks. Okay. Uh, for the second time, counselor Carpen, next counselor. Uh, Thank you Hamilton. Thank you Madam Chair. Have we inspected the skylights since you were in front of us in April? Yes. I have not, I have not been on the roof, but, And who, who inspected him? Well, I guess I can't say that it was a full inspection. Jay McNeil has been up there with Gail, with Jackson Glass and with Suburban Glass all viewing the skylights as part of this project. How often are we going up there? Now that we know that it's gonna be another year? Is there gonna be a scheduled bimonthly
▶ 1:20:22 Mark Garipay: inspections of the skylights? I don't know what the frequency would be, but absolutely we will be inspecting them on whatever the appropriate frequency is according to the architect. Can you let us know what that frequency is? I can thank you. Um, in the bid, going back to the bid when it was opened, if you could just explain this, it was, uh, in an, in some information that, um, uh, Lauren, M**k had sent us the general, the bid tabulation sheet, uh, bid opening May 9th. We have a base bid of 9 97. And then we had alternates. Were those included in there? We Didn't, we weren't able to award any of the alternates. So the base bid was 9 97, but it didn't include the skylights because It includes an allowance for the skylights
▶ 1:21:07 Mark Garipay: of 400 something thousand. I don't have the exact figure, but 400 something thousand was the allowance that they were required to carry because they didn't have a, um, a bidder. Actually, you might see that number in there. It's four. Yeah, no, it's just the one page. It's just 'cause uh, the alternates bid one, bid two, bid three. Okay. Um, it says masonry chimney, um, okay. Franklin And Then, yeah, so we didn't award any of the alternates because we didn't have enough money to do any of 'em. So the 9 97 includes the 400? Yes. For the skylights. The 5 97 left was for Franklin roof. 'cause that was part of the, The, the base bid. The 9 97 includes all of the Franklin work that was part of the base bid.
▶ 1:21:52 Mark Garipay: So the small roof above room 26 and the mason, the critical masonry above one of the doorways. And then the masonry that was required to be done in order to not disrupt the roof by coming back later to do that masonry. So the abutting wall to the roof, that masonry was included in the 9 97 plus the allowance for the skylights plus any general contractor overhead. Um, you know, whatever, whatever Greenwood feels that they need to do the skylight portion. And we had 816,000 that was approved, um, taken out that two 50. Right. So, um, going back to um, Mr. Troops' e uh, letter, he stated that, um, I think in this allocation that we were gonna do, unless I misread it, someone else, uh, one of my co uh,
▶ 1:22:49 Mark Garipay: fellow counsels may may correct me, I'm not sure, but, um, talked about doing much needed masonry work at Franklin. I believe it said that in the email. Yeah. So, So that, that was the critical masonry, the, the pieces above the doorway and the pieces abutting the roof. So 360 3. Yeah, but that was a, that was an alternate bid on here at 2 52 97 Plus No, that's, yeah, so there's masonry in the base bid and then there's additional masonry. So the base bid includes for the Franklin component, the base bid includes the roof above room 26 mm-Hmm. Some immediately adjacent wall masonry repairs that Gail felt. If the contractor were to go back at a later date and do those masonry repairs over the new roof,
▶ 1:23:38 it would damage the new roof. So those masonry repairs are included. And then we have one doorway that has loose brick above it, and those were included in the base bid. That was the critical masonry repairs that Jim's referring to in the memo, um, that are included in the project already. Part of that 9 97, um, from Greenwood as well as the 9 97 also includes the 430 roughly of the, um, skylight allowance. Okay. Um, So we signed a contract for 9 97. Correct. And we had approved eight eight something. Yeah. And we, we used some existing funds that we had available to, to fill the small gap there. Okay. Thank you. Um, counselor Ro Oh no, sorry. You're all set. Okay. Uh, counselor Hamilton. Thanks.
▶ 1:24:37 Ward Hamilton: I'll try to move through quickly. It feels like everybody's had enough, but, um, an interesting point that, that I would suggest to you and everyone else listening. So until 2014, care and maintenance, the things we're talking about, janitorial services, et cetera, the school department handled that in Melrose. And then in 2014, all that responsibility came to DPW with no budget, as I recall. I believe with just budget for the operating, you know, to pay the custodians to pay the right. Yeah. Um, so sadly, one of the things that we've not had in aren't your fault, it's a long time ago, um, maintenance, right? Looking at what we have, taking care of it. So here we are now, 10 years later and whatever situation it was there.
▶ 1:25:22 Ward Hamilton: And that's largely something you've inherited. Um, just for the edification, edification of the council, because this is confusing, right? Public work, how does it work? Um, I'll just bang through this fast. Sure. You, you know it, I know it. But it, it's helpful to understand that in the commonwealth public work, the construction part, the design part, cities and town, municipalities, state level, all of those, um, bids or opportunities have to be advertised in a document called the Central Register. And that's published every week. And so, um, when we put this in, and it was in the April 17th issue of the central register, we have to say in that advertisement, here's our budget. So it's, it's not like when you get a bid
▶ 1:26:07 Ward Hamilton: for work at your house and you solicit bids and nobody knows. Everybody who's bidding knows we had 816,000. And so it perhaps didn't look super attractive in the, in the current market with escalation and all that stuff. So I think that's why on May 2nd we had no filed sub bids. And then on May 9th, we had just one bid from Greenwood Industries and their bid was, we had eight 16, their bid was 9 97. So they were saying, yeah, we'll take it, but you don't have enough. And, um, you know, of that 486 was the allowance for the skylights. And obviously it's not as easy as saying, so the remaining five 11 was for the Franklin. 'cause there were other things, but roughly, you know, that's how they were looking at it half and half.
▶ 1:26:55 Ward Hamilton: Um, so I think it's interesting, you know, it's important that we know and understand that one of the things that you and I talked about and other people who I've talked to have suggested is why don't we just roof over it? Well, you can't just throw a sheet of plywood and put rubber over it. And also the skylights, which are, they're, they're basically windows at a 45 degree angle. And building code is different for the fenestration and windows than it is for a roof. So right now we have a project that's basically not replacing totally, but restoring the existing skylights. Whereas if we said let's just roof it, we would have to frame and steal and meet all of those different load requirements
▶ 1:27:39 Ward Hamilton: and it would, could end up being more than the 717,000. Yeah. Or, or at least the same amount. So I understand all of that logic and I support it. And I think the natural light in that space is something we never wanna lose if we can avoid it. But timing wise, now we're looking at a year. I think I could wait a i I could wait a year if we're gonna make it safe. Um, in which, and I, and I'll, and I'll round out my final comment. So I think earlier in the first round of questions, Councillor Garrett pay asked and you said, we're not gonna find an architect or an engineer who's gonna sign off on this is safe. But then a moment ago, Gail's recommendation verbal, I guess is, it looks okay. I would submit to you that, um, we're not going to be able
▶ 1:28:29 Ward Hamilton: to know when one of those let's go. It might not happen for 10 years, it might happen right now. And I would strongly, the mayor gave me the assurance that you'll strongly, you know, you'll, I strongly urge you to think about that because if something happens, Gail isn't gonna be on the hook. They're not gonna step up and say, oh yeah, we told Elena it's fine. They're gonna say, you guys knew, go watch the city council meeting in, in here. You know. So, um, please, Let's make it safe. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. And Councilor Stewart. Thank You Madam Chairman. Chair. I'd like a motion to make a recommendation, uh, for this, uh, um, appropriate 2025 dash one to the full council. Second,
▶ 1:29:15 Maya Jamaleddine: We Have a motion to recommend made by Councillor Stewart, seconded by Councilor Karen Che on discussion. Adam Clerk Council ro? Yes. Councilor Gpe. Yes. Councilor Hamilton. Yes. Council Jamine. Yes. I'm sorry. Chair Jamine. It's okay. Councilor Karen Chetty. Yes. Councillor Arm? Yes. Councillor Stewart? Yes. Councilor Vandiver. Yes. Councilor Williams? Yes. President? Me. Yes. That's 10. Yes. Thank you. This order passes. Thank you for being with us tonight. Thank You very much. Thank you. And I just wanna say thank you for your very thoughtful questions and comments. I just wanna acknowledge they are heard and received. Yes. Thank you. And this was The last order on our agenda, but before we, uh, make a motion to adjourn, I would like
▶ 1:30:08 Maya Jamaleddine: to take a moment for, uh, personal privilege. Um, joined by counselor Van Dever. Um, recently we have been, um, uh, approached by many members of the community, um, with concerns about the rise of discrimination in our community. And for that, I would like to stand before you today with a heavy heart and a deep sense of shame. The rise of discrimination in our city, particularly against black individuals, is appalling and deeply embarrassing. We are witnessing acts of prejudice and not only in our schools, but also throughout the city. Actions that have no place in any community, let alone one that prides itself on being open and inclusive. I am gravely concerned by the reports I've heard and the incidents I've seen.
▶ 1:31:04 Maya Jamaleddine: But what alarms me even more is the rhetoric from some members of our community who attempt to justify these hateful behaviors to those who continue to change. That merose is one community open to all. I ask you to truly reflect on that statement. Is our community truly open to everyone? And would you still believe that if you were the one facing this discrimination? The truth is, our community has not been open to all. Yes, we have made strides and many of us are working tirelessly to build a more inclusive s but the reality is we have not yet achieved that goal. We still have a long way to go to ensure that our city is a place where everyone, black people of color, Jews, Muslims, immigrants,
▶ 1:31:56 Maya Jamaleddine: lgbtq plus individuals, can live without fear of discrimination. Um, this is not just a problem for those who are directly impacted by hate. It is a stain on our entire community and we must face it head on, or this statement will remain performative. Our words and actions must match our ideals. If we are ever to be the truly inclusive city we claim to be. Let us acknowledge where we have fallen short and commit together to doing the hard work necessary to make marrows a community that is genuinely open to all. Thank you and I hope you all join me in that. Um, with that I would like to make entertain motion to adjourn. So moved. Second, We have a motion to adjourn made by Vice Chair Williams.