Finance Committee — 2021-10-14
Attendance
Christopher Cinella ; Mark Garipay ; Maya Jamaleddine ; Leila Migliorelli ; Robb Stewart ; John N. Tramontozzi
Agenda
Minutes
CITY OF MELROSE FINANCE COMMITTEE CALENDAR● OCTOBER 14, 2021 Web-based remote meeting Remote meeting 7:01 PM , Melrose, MA 02176 The public should take notice that the Melrose City Council may, on certain occasions, have a quorum in attendance due to standing committees of the City Council consisting of both voting and non-voting members. Members attending this duly posted meeting are participating and deliberating only in conjunction with the business of the standing committee. Attendee Name Title Status Arrived Leila Migliorelli Chair Present Robb Stewart Vice Chair Present John N. Tramontozzi Voting Late 7:03 PM Mark Garipay Voting Present Maya Jamaleddine Voting Present Christopher Cinella President, ex oficio Absent Non-voting members present include Councilor Grigoraitis, Councilor Eccles, and Councilor MacMaster.
ORDER-2022-39 Administrative Order Approval by the Melrose City Council of the City's ward and precinct boundaries and map as enumerated herein in accordance with Massachusetts General Laws, Chapter 54, sections 1 and 2 and the 2020 U. S. Census population data. Without Recommendation City Council City of Melrose Page 1 10/19/2021 3:37 PM
Transcript
▶ 17:17 Leila Migliorelli: And I know that President Sinella is not here this evening, and Councillor Tramontozzi is not here as well. Non-voting members, Councillors Echols, Grigoraitis, and McMaster are also joining us as well. Pursuant to the suspension of certain provisions of the open meeting law, this meeting of the Finance Committee will be conducted via remote participation to the greatest extent possible. We will post a comprehensive record of these proceedings as soon as possible after the meeting on the City of Melrose website and on MMTV3.org. The public can find online access instructions to view this meeting at the cityofmelrose.org backslash remote hyphen meetings. Um, so now we come to the public comment portion, I will motion by unanimous consent to open the floor for public comment.
▶ 18:06 Leila Migliorelli: Um, counselor Stewart. Point of order, Madam chair, uh, do we have enough for 1? Could we just confirm that for. We have 4, I see council determine is an attendee right now. So. Okay, so I'm just going to continue on with the public comment piece and let Councilor Tramm and Josie come in. So, I'm motioning by unanimous consent to open the floor for public comment and this is a portion of the meeting where anyone can speak on any item on our agenda tonight. So, seeing no objection, we are now open for public comments. Mr. Clerk, is there anyone in the queue for public comment? I'm not seeing anyone, but. No, not at this moment. Right, if there's no objection, I'd like to close public comment seeing none. We're now closed for public comments.
▶ 19:05 Leila Migliorelli: Um, and since we have, um, some members of the, um, city administration, um, and the state government to, um, with us tonight, I'd like. To motion by unanimous consent to suspend the rules before we proceed. Seeing no objection, the rules are now suspended, and now we move on to the one and only order on our agenda tonight, which is Order 2022-39, approval by the Melrose City Council of the City's Ward and Precinct Boundaries and MAP as enumerated herein in accordance with the Massachusetts General Laws Chapter 54, Sections 1 and 2, and the 2020 U.S. Census Population Data. So, Mr. Clark, if you could bring in city clerk, Kristen foot, I see her here and Mike Owens, who's a community engagement director from secretary Galvin's office.
▶ 19:59 It's not allowed to let him in as a panelist at the moment. Mr. Owens, do you hear us? Yeah, I can hear you. Can you hear me now? Yes, we can hear you. Yes. Okay, you can hear me now, right? I apologize. I've not used WebEx many times. So I'm not too familiar with the dashboard here. Yeah, it's a little tricky. We can hear you. We just can't see you. So, I don't know. We can keep going. For now, unless there's some work around Andrew or Mr. clerk you're working on. I'll try to work. I don't know if it's on my end here. The option is grayed out so I'm not sure what the issue is. Okay. Well, Madam Clerk, would you want to get started with just introducing us, introducing the order? Can you hear me? Sure. So I put together a brief timeline. I put some notes together just to kind of give a little bit of a history
▶ 21:21 for education purposes. In April, the Secretary of the Commonwealth advised municipalities of the re-precincting process that happens every 10 years. It's in response to the U.S. federal census data and that Melrose's population went, it was a 10.5 increase from 26,983 to 29,817. In April, they provided, the secretary's office provided a brief Zoom meeting for all 351 communities to sort of explain the process and they advised that the communities form a for the lack of a better word a working group there was no formal appointment but um they suggested because i was going back to through my notes the gis um the people the planning department engineering the city solicitor the city clerk and then it was just to prepare for the official census data
▶ 22:14 release they said they thought it was going to be september 30th and these are all you know No estimates at that time. So, I think in July, this little working group convened and it was very small. There was a secretary of the state election commission webinar to advise of the delay in the federal census data normally comes out in April because of the pandemic. I believe in a host of other issues, the information was delayed that they were telling us to be on the lookout for the Census Bureau numbers to do the re-precincting. The working group was a member of, Rob VanCampen was leaving at the time, so there was no city solicitor input at that point. This is July. So it was myself, President Cinella, Council Gregoraitis,
▶ 23:05 Denise Gaffey from Office of Planning and Development, the Mayor was in as well. trying to think jane uh who does the gis mapping in case there was some need of that in august the secret the state election commission um gave us an update that the numbers were expected in mid-month and that the data packet which is our block census data the map an approved vote and the factors sort of the factors they looked at in the when they were going to create a map that that was on the way let's see what else and august 17th the data packets were released on a rolling basis to all of the communities september 16th melrose received its data packet and on september 28th i sent the council a memo outlining the process and gave you
▶ 23:52 the 2010 historical packet that the former city put together with that map and boundary descriptions at that time um the only person to my knowledge are the two people that are here currently that were here in 2010 are miss gathy and miss pitts that have any kind of sort of knowledge base and of course counselor tramitosi so that's sort of where we're at so we um we the group made the decision i guess i'm paraphrasing and speaking for other people that because of the knowledge base of the state election commission and their ability to do this year you know decade after decade after decade that we would go with their expertise knowledge and skills in providing the map um what you see in this order is exactly that what was provided to us from the secretary's
▶ 24:37 office with zero changes to it and that's where we're sort of it that wasn't very brief was it no thank you madam clerk that was helpful um mr mr owens is there anything you would like to add on to talk a little bit about the state's um process in providing uh cities and towns these maps and sort of walk us through deadlines that we should be aware of sure uh can you hear me yes okay and i do apologize for some reason i uh have the camera there's no option to turn it on here um so i apologize um that we don't have video but um anyhow uh i i think the uh madam clerk there covered it pretty well and i know we've been in uh communication recently uh and she's been in good communication with our census team here um but um
▶ 25:31 the as uh clerk had mentioned there was a delay with the uh the release of the census data um which has kind of put uh the uh the process here on a very short timeline um the data was originally supposed to be released in june um and it it didn't get to us until uh it wasn't released by the census bureau until mid-august putting communities in this kind of short time frame um the uh but uh you know melrose has done a good job with uh with going you know uh going through the process um there there was growth in melrose on not a tremendous amount of uh shifts um the important factors to pay attention to which my understanding seem to seem to be covered here is that no precinct can be over 4 000 residents and that each precinct must be when the within a
▶ 26:27 five percent variance of your average precinct size so uh the way you get there is you take your population you divide it by the amount of precincts you have and that will produce uh the average precinct size and uh and you can each precinct cannot be more uh than five or five percent um plus or minus from that average precinct size so um you are in good shape there of course if you look at precinct uh seven two you're getting a little close you're at 4.98 but um you know that's that's uh just kind of how it how it shakes out so um this map is is a a good map from our standpoint that would pass the ledrc um and uh and as you i'm sure are all aware that there was a legislative change um which um normally the process for re-precincting
▶ 27:21 would be that uh municipalities would go first with re-precincting uh those uh maps create the building blocks for redistricting for the legislature to uh to redistrict and draw their legislative uh voting districts um there was a change in the in the law uh temporarily for this this cycle um due to the short time frame um that you know municipalities are in but also the legislature is in um so uh that time frame has allowed or that that legislative change um allows the redistricting process to go on simultaneously well municipalities are working on their precinct maps so i say that because i know there's been uh questions from a number of communities about how that would impact the local uh level uh or the local process for
▶ 28:16 precincting um and and you know uh in reality or in practice it really doesn't have uh an effect on on our process uh nor should it really on the municipality um i say that because you know we they're two they are two different functions the municipal re-precincting process and the legislative redistricting process um and uh although they won't have um you know the municipal input in um to do redistricting since it's going on kind of simultaneously um We are encouraging communities to submit their maps to the LEDRC and have them approved in a timely fashion, you know, as soon as possible, because doing so would allow us to turn over what what's called a shape file, which is the, the data that goes into a map.
▶ 29:10 Once it once your map is submitted to the LEDRC and approved, we then can turn that shape file over to the legislature. which would allow them to see the locally approved map and to try to conform legislative districts as closely as possible to that map. Additionally, there is an amendment process if there were changes that come as a result of redistricting. There is an amendment process through the ledrc where if approved by the if this map is approved by the ledrc and there are necessary changes that have to be made as a result of the redistricting process the amendment mechanism is the mechanism to make those changes um so that any any any uh you know any um map um that's approved on the local level would um conform with
▶ 30:11 those changes from redistricting um if that makes sense i know it's i know uh it's quite a lot of information and uh it's quite a long-winded explanation but um that's just kind of where we're at at this point um so the process from here would be um if the municipality were to move forward on a on an approval um once it's approved all these materials can then be submitted to the ledrc which is you know the the local elections district review commission um and uh then the ledrc would would um vote to approve the map um given that's in conformity which this map is um and then we can get that stuff up to the state legislature thank you mr owens and um before i take count uh questions from counselors i just want to clarify that while the sponsor of the
▶ 31:07 Leila Migliorelli: order um on file as mayor broder that's just merely a formality this is an order that has to come before the council um by state mandate so um just wanted to clarify that for the public any questions from councillors any questions from voting members first before i take a question from councillor mcmaster councillor Garipay thank you chair Migliorelli uh two quick questions um Um, typically, um, I guess we're in a tight timeframe. So this year is a little different than most, uh, how much local input to usually, um. Take during during a normal process when they're, when they're doing the redistricting. Madam chair, if I can answer that, if I may, um. So, it's a great question, madam chair. May I answer? I'm not sure if I yes. Yes. Sorry. Yeah, I know. Um, so, uh, it's a good question.
▶ 32:08 Um, that's really, um, up to the community. Um, typically, um, there, so the, the, the law does not require a public comment period or, you know, uh, you know, uh, some sort of individual public forum on this, um, the council meeting or the local legislative body public meeting would be uh the the uh public kind of input um period or session um however the each community the best practice so to speak that we recommended that we recommended early in this process back in um uh i think it was february march when we first got going and when we did the webinar with um madam clerk and with the with the city um we recommended what we say is the best practice which is to form a working group of um on the local level of you know your clerk uh engineering
▶ 33:10 planning um any other stakeholders uh that you choose um to to kind of shape these maps and to to have you know that that input um and we we recommend that because you know those individuals the um sometimes um you know there there may be a representative from the local uh legislative body or whatnot those individuals in the working group know the community well um but we also recommend you know having um people on staff in the city because the process is really about populations and data um and and it's less about you know politics campaigns and and the things that these maps affect but it's really it shouldn't be built on that so that's why the working group is really of um experts um various experts throughout throughout the city um and then
▶ 34:10 you know if that working group wanted to to do additional uh public input periods or comments they are they are more than welcome to do that however uh the the public hearings the public meetings such as this and i'm sure a full council meeting would be uh the best forum um for for public uh direct public input so to answer the question a little more succinctly every community does it differently um we have not seen um i think we had uh i think there were two cities um that that had um a public kind of a public comment night uh separate from their legislative body meeting, separate from their council meeting or select board meeting. Thank you. Just one recommendation to go forward. I know this is only every 10 years and
▶ 35:04 Mark Garipay: who knows how many of us will be still here next time we're redistricting, but I think it would be great for full transparency. We live in a world where we want transparency and I think it would be great to leave enough time to inform the affected residents that will have representation changed. That would be a suggestion I would like to see going forward, but that's all the questions I have. Thank you very much. Appreciate you being here. Thank you. And Madam Chair, I can just mention the public notification piece just quickly, if i may yes in terms of changes so um once all of uh the once the ledrc portion is finished and um we are done with you know that this portion of things uh or this this kind of stage of things um
▶ 36:01 our office does work with each community to provide a list of um any residents that would be directly um impacted in terms of uh polling location changes or or ward or precinct changes so we will provide the city a list of those residents so you can you know send a letter or notice directly to them um just to notify them um as as you know of those changes we can't do it in advance um just because we don't know what those changes would be uh until they're done so So it's a little tough to do in advance, but I, you know, I do understand that the importance of that. So we will try to get that information over to the city as soon as this process is complete. Thank you. Thank you. I mean, I understand it would be tough.
▶ 36:52 Shawn M. MacMaster: I'd like to see it prior because especially this year where we're in a virtual meetings, not in person and I wouldn't say the community as a whole is engaged in a lot of items unless it's a big ticket item like we just had last last week but once again thank you thank you for your time appreciate it thank you any other voting members okay councillor McMaster thank you madam chair good evening miss foot good evening mr. Owens thank you both for being here I have several questions and just for mr. Owens so that he can understand the context now that uh my questions um are really focused on helping the residents of ward five understand the impact that um uh voting on reprint we precincting uh will have uh because there's been a significant
▶ 37:47 Shawn M. MacMaster: uh uh increase in in the population of ward five and because the map takes much of five two away from ward five uh precinct two and uh puts it into ward seven and because there are streets in ward five one that are being lost to um to ward three um so i'll start with uh miss foot miss what you had talked about the um the working group um who described it as a working group it doesn't didn't seem to have a formal name who was responsible for initiating that working group and identifying members um to to participate in that group sure through the chair so the secretary's initial input says these are the suggested um areas of uh administration members that should be in the group so i met with the mayor in response to that initial email saying
▶ 38:45 Shawn M. MacMaster: you probably want to put your group together and brainstormed the in response to sort of that information engineering planning city solicitor i pulled the file from the previous 2010 order it wasn't much in there and so that's really how that working group was formed and prior to the release of the map were there any recommendations or any communications to the secretary of state's office from the working group or as far as you know any member of the working group or from the mayor's office uh through the chair just to clarify was there any recommendation from melrose to the state to my knowledge it was oh sorry yes correct whether or not it was from the working group any individual member of the committee or the mayor
▶ 39:37 Shawn M. MacMaster: if you know um sure if you know beyond the question about the working group because i know to my knowledge there was a zero input interaction or information provided from the melrose side of the house back to the state regards to the map and just so the public understands what then was the charge of the working group if the working group didn't meet and make recommendations what was the purpose of the group and what function did it serve uh i guess i'm speaking for other people which is difficult i believe the purpose was to receive the information from the secretary's state elections commission um take a look at it um back to mr owens point the factors that they looked at the five percent you know with other awards and the the ability that the redrawn
▶ 40:27 precinct and ward boundaries would not result in a dilution of any minority group member vote um if so we looked at these factors we looked at the method they provided um they also tried to make that the there were no protruding tails or what they called long protruding fingers or tails so that the woods and precinct boundaries looked as smooth as they could that they were bounded by certain geographic boundaries so i think we looked we the working group looked at the map as was presented to us in light of these factors and made the decision that because this is what the secretary's office does we were going to go with their recommendation that was a discussion within a meeting okay yeah webex meeting okay and the uh election a few weeks from now uh in
▶ 41:15 Shawn M. MacMaster: november uh as you know we voted as a council to temporarily shift the polling location or centralize the polling location to the middle school um understanding that no uh formal change beyond that election uh was made um and uh there's no um no one is pursuing that at this time at least not that i've heard uh how will this impact polling locations uh after the november election the next time voters go back to the polls will people's has that been determined where will the voters now in ward 5 1 and 5 2 who are being lost to ward 7 and ward 3 where will they vote Right now they voted the Lincoln School. The Lincoln School has been cut out of Ward 5. So that has not been discussed by this working group in any fashion at this time?
▶ 42:12 Shawn M. MacMaster: If you know, how will that decision be made in the future where people will vote after this election? I do not know the answer to that question. So I don't want to suppose or hypothesize. It's okay. And Mr. Owens, again, thank you for being here. Can you help me and my colleagues in the public understand how exactly is the re-precincting initiated? How is it determined? Is this a human being who sits in an office who looks at maps and highlights maps? Is it a computer system? How does this come about and how can we assure residents that it's, you mentioned it's based on population and the reason why we look at population and not other factors. How then can the public be assured that this isn't arbitrary?
▶ 43:03 What specifically does that process look like? Thank you, councillor. So when we so our office will provide we offer, I should say, technical assistance to municipalities to create the maps. So when we get the data, we receive the data and then we produce a draft map for each community along with some other materials that are necessary. And we provide all those materials to the community in what's called a data release packet. The community gets that data release packet and the data release packet outlines the two kind of ways to navigate through the re-pre-syncing process. literally it says option a or option b option a is to use the technical assistance of our off office um and the way that works is you get the draft map that we've sent um your working group
▶ 44:05 or whomever you've put together on the municipal level uh looks at that um and then they would request revisions from us at the city's direction um so we don't actually get involved in any of the decisions kind of made around shifts or how the map is drawn, we get the request for revisions from the city. And then we have three cartographers here. Cartographer is the technical term for somebody that does mapping. So we have the cartographers. And once the city sends in request for revisions the cartographers will update or revise that draft map and then we provide it back to the city and the city would then say yes this is what we requested or or no if it's a yes we then prepare what's called a final file cabinet and we send that final file
▶ 45:02 cabinet over and that that final file cabinet contains the final map plus a block listing which is a breakdown of each census block that makes up the map with the populations, demographic information, all of those things. And to kind of narrow in on your question, those materials are computer generated. So the mapper actually manipulates the map and moves it based upon the requested changes. And then the other materials, that block listing that provides that demographic information and the population totals for each census block all of those materials are computer generated based upon that map that block listing and then the legal boundary descriptions that describe what the map is you know where it's kind of talks about northerly
▶ 45:54 to you know main street then easterly to such and such point um so that legal boundary description um that block listing and that final map are sent over in the final file cabinet um and then at that point it's ready to be presented um to the local elect uh uh legislative body um the alternative would be if you select option b which is a municipality produced option um that is where we just provide you the shape file which is that kind of raw data file and then on the city level you would use a gis coordinator um in your in your in your engineering department possibly and they would be the ones to actually kind of produce everything that i just described um so we don't actually get involved in the decisions and we do stress to each municipality
▶ 46:42 that it is your map and we're just simply providing the technical assistance but all the kind of revisions and input does come from the city and when making revisions or requests for revisions we do ex stress to the city or explain to the municipalities um that you know you know your city best so um you have to identify where minority neighborhoods may be um or where um you know particular ethnic groups may be located um so that when you're making shifts you're ensuring that minority vote dilution does not occur um and you know paying attention to your neighborhoods in in those ways um so um in terms of actually drawing drawing the map and coming up with those revisions that is all at the direction of the municipality um and because the municipality
▶ 47:34 Shawn M. MacMaster: would know best so um so we just provide the technical assistance um for that so in but in In this case, though, that so, even though the municipality has the opportunity to make recommendations or requests and use the secretary of state's offices resource in this case, though, the map we have before us this evening that that didn't happen. Correct? For us tonight is the map that was submitted to the city without any input from from the working group or from the city. So we create, if I'm through the chair, we create an initial draft map when we give you that data release packet. And then we say, you know, here's your draft map. Here's all the materials. Here's option A, option B. Let us know if you want revisions.
▶ 48:26 And it would be precisely at that stage there where the working group reviews the map and then can, if they choose, can provide us revisions. revisions. If the city looks at it and it conforms with what they wish and they're happy with it, then they can simply request the final version. We don't get involved in that because it's at the city's direction. So I don't know specifically, I don't know if any revisions were made because I didn't work on the map myself. So I don't know if any revisions were made to the map, but if they weren't that would be because that's what the working group group chose um so every working group does it a little differently um some working groups you know have a number of revisions um and
▶ 49:15 then there there have been a number of cities that the working group decides that they are happy with with uh they the map we give them um and you know like i said we we produce it based upon population um we we try to reduce reduce the shifts as much as possible um but we do provide the map and the block listing and all that for the city to be able to know where people live and what you know uh if there are any minority groups or ethnic groups that would be impacted and and and you know the city should be looking at all of those things and considering those things before they request the final version from us thank you so um so there sounds like there there are a few options on the table the option one would be the secretary of state's
▶ 50:01 Shawn M. MacMaster: office releases the map a municipality can go with that map or option two would be the municipality could through its working group make requests or recommendations and utilize the secretary of state's office as a resource option three would be to on its own accord use the the software provided by the secretary of state's office to create its its own maps i just want to make sure so those that's really the process and okay is there a third option does this council have the opportunity um to make any amendments to the map regardless of what was sent to us by the site or i guess let me back up if we started with the secretary of state's uh map that was that we have in front of us um and regardless of the what the working group decided
▶ 50:56 um not to do does the council have the ability within the parameters of the five percent and you know ensuring that the population in a ward is not over four thousand people does the council have an opportunity to make a uh an amendment to the map Through the Chair, if I may. The Council is welcome to do whatever it chooses. We don't interfere with that. So that would be really a question for the Council. Just from a practical standpoint um i think that i don't i don't think the council can really say you know i think the council can make uh decide not to take action and then the uh and then make recommendations to the working group and then the working group would provide us those revisions if the working
▶ 51:55 if you know that's the will of the council or the will of the working group um and then we would make those revisions we would provide you a new final file cabinet and then it would go through the process again it would go back to the Council for approval. Madam Chair, I have two quick questions just on the the timing. Sorry, just interrupt, you're getting approaching your time so if you can kind of wrap it up quickly. Thank you Madam Chair. Madam Chair, if I could just follow, just to clarify, the alternative could be the Council could still, you know, move forward. And then a counselor who is not in support could could always vote against the map instead of sending it back to the working group. That's always another alternative also. But again, that's the will of the council, the will of the counselors.
▶ 52:44 Shawn M. MacMaster: Final question, if I may, Madam chair is just with respect to the delay and releasing the data. Mr Owens, can you just explain what the reason was for the delay and why that didn't seem to affect the schedule in terms of when we need to vote on this by? which I believe is October thirtieth. Is that right? So, I'm speaking to the delay and, you know, yeah, that wasn't extended. Yep, so the delay was from the U. S. Census Bureau, and there was a change. The original date was supposed to be June because the data would have come out. Um, the data would have come out in February, um, originally, uh, if my memory's correct, it would have been February and then that would have given a timeline for June thirtieth for the municipalities to submit.
▶ 53:36 Um, that statutory deadline was changed because of the delay caused by the U. S. Census Bureau. Um, and that it was changed not knowing when the data would come because the Census Bureau was. you know they didn't give us a specific date so by when june came uh the secretary of state's office had to work with the legislature to change that statutory deadline not knowing when the when the data would actually be released so the date was chosen for october 30th hoping that we would get it you know um sometime in june july it ended up being mid-august um and and there wasn't another legislative change um but i i should say that um the census bureau delayed the data across the nation um i know there was litigation down in i believe alabama over the delay um so
▶ 54:25 Shawn M. MacMaster: every state was impacted um in this way um and and from the i don't want to speak for the census bureau but our understanding is it was covet related delays um that's what we were told Great. Thank you, Mr. Owens. And Madam Chair, thank you for the latitude. I think, as you know, this has had a big impact or will have a big impact if approved by the Council on Ward 5. I might count. There are 18 streets that will be affected. It might actually be more, but that was my best count looking at the map. 14 of those streets will be going towards 7 on Ward 3. So, thank you for the time, Madam Chair. Sure. I believe Councillor Grigoraitis is next. Yes, thank you chairman really and through the chair. I was 1 of the 2.
▶ 55:12 Jen Grigoraitis: Counselors to meet, go to the 2 meetings of the working group. So I just wanted to offer some of my thoughts and thinking behind. The support of this map, and also just to clarify a few of the things that have come up in discussion. The 1st, is that it's my understanding from our state legislative delegation that based on the maps that have been proposed in the house in the Senate. will see no change to our State House and Senate districts. So that is not an issue, thankfully, that we have to contend with, though I know many other municipalities will, especially several cities. My understanding, I appreciate Councilor McMaster's question about where will people vote, and as I think many of you know,
▶ 55:57 Jen Grigoraitis: Ward 6 is one of those split wards where half of us actually vote in Ward 4. So my understanding is whatever is worked out within the confines of state election law, that would have to come before the council for a vote, just like the decision that we made this year to continue with consolidated polling for 2021. So just to reassure that I think we will continue to have a role in those determinations. And then I'm really glad that we touched on the block report data, because I think that's really important. And in all honesty for me was what made me want to lean on the map provided by the secretary of state's office the direction from the secretary of state's office says that we must look at this block data which is a street by street listing of
▶ 56:42 Jen Grigoraitis: both population and self-identified demographic data to ensure that we are considering demographics when we review precinct lines we have to ensure that we are not diluting the minority vote or which is through either packing a district so that we are kind of condensing voters of color into one area or so sufficiently fragmenting populations of color that they are basically not a there is no ability to have a majority minority district so that is way beyond my area of expertise to look at that level of data and make that analysis um and so for me it feels like to ensure that that is happening i wanted to rely on the secretary of state's office which i believe um has that expertise and is able to do that so i just wanted to kind of highlight that i completely empathize
▶ 57:32 Jen Grigoraitis: about the shifts in the map um and i think all wards are seeing shifting of boundaries word 5 is certainly the most um significant but at the end of the day every word increase every ward will have approximately 5 000 residents in it so while we may be losing or gaining certain people an award the the overall number of people we represent if your award counselor continues um so but i just wanted to highlight the block data because i think that piece for me really felt like we needed to rely on those more expertise around cartography and around analysis of demographic data than certainly i have so thank you madam chair thank you um any other counselors with questions i actually just have a couple of counselor gare pay i'm sorry just for some
▶ 58:25 Leila Migliorelli: clarification uh to uh miss foot um the map that we have that's in the packet uh that we're voting on that's being proposed that is the original map that was sent um by the state with no changes through the chair that's correct thank you i just wanted to clarify thank you um i just had a couple of clarifying questions mr owens um so just to just to sort of summarize it up if if so we have this map this was the map that the working group agreed upon it is the first version that the state provided us um and it sounds like the working group you know put some thought into to as councillor Grigoraitis i just mentioned that you know the ability to craft these maps on our own sort of goes outside of the scope and expertise of the working group and for
▶ 59:15 Leila Migliorelli: you know perhaps within the city no disrespect to anyone within the city but this is it seems like a complicated um a map to pull together um if we were to if the council um were to draw its own map um you would we would still have to take into account all the factors that you had outlined at the beginning um correct and which would then potentially just lead us back to the same um To the same result, because we're looking at demographic data, looking at relative size. Is that correct? There's that probability that even if we took another crack at it to take in those into account those factors, we could end up at the same spot again. Yes, Madam chair, I do want to point out that our draft map isn't necessarily, you know, a suggestion. It's, it's, it's really.
▶ 1:00:09 how the day it's it's us coming up with a map to we try to kind of create a map as close to what is your current precinct lines are based on new data so we we create the map just kind of really in that way and then we provide all the information to the city to review and to to kind of analyze So I don't want to I don't want to say that this is a suggested map because it's really not because we, we look to the city to say, yes, this works for us or no, these are the revisions and we, we have no horse in the race, so to speak, for lack of a better term. We were just simply doing the technical assistance. But so I just want to kind of clarify that and make sure that's known. that's known. But to your point, yes, if you were to draw a map, it's very possible that you could
▶ 1:01:09 end up back at this point, or something very similar to it, or something different, but the something different could have other changes, such as a minority vote dilution, or it could have significant shifts where particular representation, current representation may be impact in a particular way although i do want to point out that's not you know an official consideration of the ledrc but i know that that's things that people in local communities care about um so you know when you start to make shifts um i i i should explain that the way we create a map is a map is made up of individual census blocks a census block is not what you not a traditional city block a census block is a unique geographic area defined by the census bureau all of them are
▶ 1:02:01 unique in size and shape and population value some census blocks for example um have no population it could be a graveyard it could be a forest it's just the geographic area the way the census bureau has broken up the city um and they do that because by the census blocks have to be bounded by natural natural features roads streams railroad tracks things like that um you know you can't just create lines on your own so because the census blocks are are all unique when you shift one it has a domino effect on the rest of the map um so you could shift you know um you could need to move a block um and that block could have a massive area of land but only have three people in it so you're shifting this this whole huge area of land that only has three people but it's going
▶ 1:02:52 to have an effect on all those other blocks because of its size and that has a ripple effect throughout the map so it really is like a game of kind of like a rubik's cube or um you know it it really is once you make shifts it's going to start to impact um have an impact throughout the rest of the city and throughout the rest of the map so to your point yes um because of the uniqueness of the census blocks um when you start to make shifts um you know you will have this ripple effect and for that reason you may find that this is is probably you know it may not be perfect but it's it accomplishes what you need to accomplish um in terms of ensuring minority vote dilution doesn't occur making sure all the other requirements are met um you know there there
▶ 1:03:44 Leila Migliorelli: are naturally going to be um shifts somewhere and i think it's i don't want to speak for for the city but i know a common goal among cities is to minimize shifts while staying in compliance with the requirements of the statute thank you mr owens you you hit on some of my other questions and um i like the point made that this is not really a suggestion this is what what works given with the data that we have um and just to kind of like further confirm since um you know we have this deadline by october 30th so there the decision sort of has to be made by then and if someone were to if we were to completely go rogue and decide that we all you know vote no it would it would come at a cost to the city um to to continue the process any further is that correct
▶ 1:04:31 as well yes so um so we have a target uh deadline for october 30th because of the change in legislation um you are now allowed to go up to um one month after redistricting is finished which would bring you to a december 15th date however a couple things to consider because of the short timeline we are also impacted by that and the ledrc is also so there is now a bottleneck of map approvals that are occurring in the you know next week and the first week in november um if all a bunch if a lot of cities were to wait until december we're going to have another bottleneck um towards the end of uh december so from logistic and and that really takes away from the thoroughness of the ledrc's ability you know to go through the maps and it could also um run
▶ 1:05:20 you you know run a risk for the city but um so there's the logistical side of it but the other side is you know redistricting is happening and they are going to draw their their districts the way that they want so um it's really in the best interest of each city to get their materials approved so they have something set in stone that the redistricting committee can use um so that um you know your your voice is heard in that process and they can try to conform their maps to this what the city um desires um the alternative is if if you wait and then redistricting is done you know that that you have nothing uh set in stone you know um but if you miss that so if you miss the october 30th deadline uh i don't think you're gonna have from what i understand you will not
▶ 1:06:13 Robb Stewart: have the impact of a master being appointed um but if you miss that december 15th deadline you will Um, once a master is appointed, the city would lose all input, lose all control. The master would draw the map. Um, and then, um, and then the city, unfortunately would have to pay. The actual cost of the master being hired. Okay. Thank you very much. Um, I don't have any other questions and, um. Seeing no other questions from the council and what is the will of the committee. Counselor Stewart, thank you manager. Actually, I do have 1. Requestion and if you don't mind through the chair, I would actually like to, um, uh, ask council chairman tozy based on his experience of going through this once before.
▶ 1:07:01 John N. Tramontozzi: In 2010, um, whether. Um, any similar situations arose how that was handled. Uh, what your experience was, I think that might that would be helpful from my perspective since you've been through it. I'm having a little difficulty with the with the internet, but so there was actually, I recall, there was some significant, well, I don't know how significant it was, but there was some changes made. There was disputes amongst the councillors. All the wards seemed to shift a little bit. um everyone got some lost some streets added some others uh i know ward one uh we had um some changes uh again it wasn't significant enough there was no complaints on my end um however i i do think that um councilman mcmaster's ward is changing more significantly than it did 10 years
▶ 1:08:14 John N. Tramontozzi: ago there's a lot of because i know there's a lot of construction that's taken place there's a lot population growth in that section of the city unlike ten years ago when we went through this process so there was not a any major significant input from the council as we accepted the redrawn map that the state provided with very little fanfare and it all seemed to work out very well so I don't know I hope that That helps a little bit. But again, I do think that there is more of a significant change in Council McMaster's ward than there had been in the other, when it was done 10 years ago. I respect and understand his concerns, but I think we can get through this without any major problems. And I think we can get it done and accomplished
▶ 1:09:11 before the October deadline. Thank you, Council. Thank you, Manager. Madam chair, if I may. Yeah, I apologize. I, um. I do have to head to another council meeting just north of Melrose via zoom. If I may be excused, I can if there's any other questions, I'm happy to answer them before heading out. But if it's okay with you, if they're not, if I may. Yes, thank you so much, Mr. Owens. Thank you for your time and good luck at your next meeting. Thank you very much and I do apologize for having to head out. I'm very sorry, but many as you are all aware, many cities are in the same, doing the same thing tonight. So, thank you very much. Take care. Okay. And just another reminder for the public say a final word on this, too, is that we have to remember that while it may be a change
▶ 1:10:22 John N. Tramontozzi: for some of the ward counselors, we are fortunate to have seven wonderful, committed ward counselors who even if you're shifting boundaries, you're going to end up with representation. So representation doesn't change in terms of everyone still has a ward counselor. Everyone still has their So, with that, anyone would like to entertain a motion? Motion to recommend. Any second? I can second. If I could Madam Chair, maybe we can, I mean, we do need to get this before the full board, full council. Yes, why don't we just move to forward without recommendation at this time? so that it gives the board counselors further opportunity to review their positions on it. This is because this is all new to most of us and what we heard from the state representative
▶ 1:11:38 we have to digest. So if we can just move it forward to the full board without recommendation would probably be the better course. Okay, so the motion to recommend is not seconded. I'll entertain another motion. That's right. I'll make a motion to send it to the full council without recommendation. Second. Okay. Motion to send to the full council without recommendation made by Councillor Tramontozzi and seconded by Vice Chair Stewart. Mr. Clerk, could you please call the roll? You're on mute. Chair Migliorelli? Yes. Vice Chair Stewart? Yes. Councillor Tramontozzi? Yes. Councillor Garipay? Yes. And Councillor Dermaladine? Yeah. That's five yes. All right. So this will move to the council meeting,
▶ 1:12:47 Leila Migliorelli: full council at the next meeting, which I believe is next week. Seeing that there's no other agenda items, I'll entertain a motion to adjourn. Madam Chair, I'll make a motion to adjourn. Motion to adjourn made by Vice Chair Stewart, seconded by Councillor Tramontozzi. Mr. Quick? Chair Migliorelli? Yes. Vice Chair Stewart? Yes. Councillor Tramontozzi? Yes. Councillor Garrapate? Yes. Councillor Gimaldi? Yes. Five yes. We're now adjourned. see everyone next week.