ORDER-2017-82 : Amend Melrose Revised Ordinances, Chapter 228, Sec. 228-15 (B) Water Rate Review Committee as set forth herein. (Amended in Legal & Legislative Committee-Feb. 27, 2017)

Transcript (~26 min @ 38:36)

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▶ 38:18 John N. Tramontozzi: you can't second it oh second that's right you're not you're a non-voting member right we have a second by alderman's work who is avoiding the voting number thank you all in favor aye any opposing none so I'm gonna read let me just read into the record the order so we have one order and that's order number 2017 dash 82 to amend the Melrose revised ordinances chapter 228 section 228 dash 15 B water rate review committee as set forth here in this order is sponsored by president of the Board of Aldermen, Donald Kahn. Let me read it. It says, Be it ordained by the Mayoral's Board of Aldermen that Section 228.15 be amended to provide. There is hereby created a Water Rate Review Committee to consist of the Director of Public Works, the City Auditor, an Alderman Appointment by the President of the Board of Aldermen, and two citizens Appointment by the President of the Board of Aldermen. The Committee shall meet at least quarterly ready to review the water rates established pursuant to this section, the cost of operating the water system, and any capital improvements to the system. It shall report its findings and any recommendations to the Board of Aldermen no later than the 13th day of April each year, sponsored by President Donald Kahn. President Kahn, you have the floor.

▶ 39:36 Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you. We met several weeks ago and discussed this and I think it's important for the public who might not have seen us the last time to give a brief history lesson of where we're at, how we got there.

▶ 39:54 Speaker 1: Up until the last approximately five years, the water and sewer rate setting process would be as follows.

▶ 40:07 Speaker 1: We would get an order, and there would be recommendations as to what rates we should adopt for water and sewer. Walderman had no participation or really any foreknowledge of what was going on. The recommendation came from the city auditor and other city officials. There was no formal codification or process. It was similar to recommendations we get for example from, well actually we don't get recommendations from the assessors, but we, so we would get the recommendations and we would have to make a determination as to whether we wanted to adopt or not adopt what was proposed as rates. There was not a lot of, there was no back and forth prior to the receipt of the order And to be honest, we didn't really have a lot of real play in what went on. The administration, after the new charter was adopted, sent down this order to codify a process. And that process was to have a rate setting committee established consisting of the treasurer, the auditor, and I believe the director of public works. At the time that that was before us, I felt very strongly that I wanted us to have more of a seat at the table, more of a role since we had to vote at the end of the day as to what the water and sewer rates were and we had to approve the budgets, I wanted to have at least one alderman participate on this committee. I made a motion, I appreciated my colleagues that you adopted the motion and amended and we included an aldermanic representative on the rate setting committee and i think i had the privilege to do that for two or three years i was followed by alderman Tramontozzi for two or three years and now alderman forbes is on there the other thing that unfolded after the formal vote to establish this committee was that meetings of the committee were held in public minutes were kept and some level of public participation was adopted and there's been this has been disagreement as to what the appropriate level of public participation is or should be but at least we had some public participation uh starting at that point as water as water bills have climbed

▶ 42:47 Speaker 1: from maybe $100 20 years ago to a large amount per quarter now, it's become more of a contentious issue. And the genesis of the filing of this order is I feel that it's important and appropriate to have some citizen input and have citizen at the table during these deliberations. And I hope that the rest of the board concurs with me and that we adopt an order that at least includes some citizen representation on this committee. The order I filed would not retain the treasurer as a voting member of this committee. I think I would suggest that having the auditor on the committee is probably sufficient. And there's a redundancy to have both the auditor and the treasurer as voting members. I did not include the director of the city engineer as a member of the committee. And have been taken to task by people and I think I was wrong not to include the city engineer. i would hope that as we go forward that we amend this order if it's adopted to include the city engineer the other thing that everybody needs to understand is that this is not a rate setting committee this isn't this is not a situation where you have an independent commission like i believe lynn has a independent water and sewer commission that deals with all things water and sewer and sets rates this is an advisory committee and what this committee is mandated to do is to study the water and sewer rates and the water and sewer budgets and make recommendations to us they they don't have any formal power to make a binding vote and and respectfully relative to the speaker who i have talked with on many many occasions and have disagreed with from time to time um entities like the planning board and the board of appeals actually have the authority to make independent binding votes on on zoning matters and things of this that nature and this group this advisory committee is an advisory committee the other committee that's similar to this in the city is the traffic commission but everybody should be aware that the traffic commission was established under a home rule petition and acts under statutory authority. So rightly or wrongly, maybe wrongly, but what we did is we, I mean collectively the Board of Aldermen, When they voted to support that legislation, power relative to certain traffic regulations and rules was ceded to the traffic commission. So I think this is apples to the traffic commission's oranges. But regardless of what anyone thinks, I can't see how it's a bad thing for us to bring citizens on board onto this committee. and i i can't help but commenting that um i didn't see the wisdom of having reserve funds

▶ 46:26 Speaker 1: in the budget process and didn't think we should have it and was not in favor of it and maybe we will not be in favor of it next year when i make a motion not to establish uh monies in the in the ongoing budget for reserve fund but i hope that you will support this order in some form i think it's i think it's a worthwhile thing to do uh i think we can only benefit if we have citizen input

▶ 46:51 John N. Tramontozzi: in this process that's all mr chairman do you want to make an amendment to add the city engineer as

▶ 46:56 Speaker 1: one of those listed personnel uh certainly well i'll wait for the discussion okay any further

▶ 46:59 John N. Tramontozzi: discussion by um voting members um alderman's work next and then alderman Rita after alderman

▶ 47:07 Michael P. Zwirko: thank you mr chairman um i i was actually traveling on business when this order first came up so i was unable to attend the meetings i did watch and also read the minutes so i wanted to first say thank you to president khan for making the motion to hold this so we could have this hearing tonight um there was also discussion at the meeting that described the benefit of having a committee either be an odd or an even number and the one thing that i would comment is i don't think that we should be um i don't think we should put too much credence into to whether or not it's an odd or even number. And I say that not only because, as President Kahn pointed out, that it's an advisory committee, but also I've found that odd number committees actually create more polarization, because if you know that you're going to have a tie vote on an even committee, it forces the group to compromise and work together in order to get a vote that will not be in a tie. When you have an odd number, generally individuals' ideologies tend to polarize themselves because they know they can get to a certain number and win the vote so when we're deliberating this evening as to how we're going to amend this order just keep in mind that you know the the end zone shouldn't be an odd or an even number the compromise the way that the committee is compromised is more important than the output of the the the totalitarian the totality of the committee's numbers so just want to put that out there for thought I would also add that i do agree that we should add the city engineer the present city engineer miss proacas ellis prior to her coming here to the city of melrose did extensive work in ini mitigation and effort work in previous municipalities for which she served i think that she lends a lot of expertise in that area and i think that the as we saw from the hearings this fall and last spring excuse me last spring and last fall there is work that's going on in that area at the city level certainly more could be done but um we're doing more than we have in the past so i think that she brings something that's needed to the committee and i think the city engineer's office should be there i would support two members of the public being on this advisory board i certainly would be willing to compromise with just one um putting it out there that i i see as written it seems fine obviously with the addition of the amendment to have the city engineer there i do also feel that the auditor should remain on the committee specifically because i asked a question last year during the budget process whether or not the reserve accounts as well as the enterprise funds are considered by outside rating agencies for our bond rating and our fiscal stability the answer to that was affirmative so i think that the city auditor's president's presence is important and then i just make one knit here and i'm only saying this on a technical term i don't know if it's actually needed but i noticed that the amendment or excuse me the order is written only says water i don't know if it's important to put and sewer only because we actually do set water and sewer rates it might be a nit but maybe it's an important one so with that uh i i'm finished with my questions and comments mr chairman

▶ 50:21 Speaker 1: just a point of information mr chairman that that wording is from the original the original ordinance that was adopted.

▶ 50:29 John N. Tramontozzi: I think historically, when the committee's been talking, they haven't just exclusively talked about water, they've talked about sewer as well. For sure. But good point, good point. We could have further discussion. I know Alderman Wright has some comments to make.

▶ 50:44 Francis X. Wright Jr.: All set? All set, you're on. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I also wasn't present at the last meeting. had a family matter to address but I did watch it on TV I I guess my point of

▶ 51:08 Francis X. Wright Jr.: view on this is that I I believe committees are more functional and and most successful when they're smaller versus larger I mean the city saw fit to reduce the size of the school committee I think that that was one of the reasons when the Charter was amended I think there's evidence to that to that extent and in various studies as relate to size of laws boards and committees I would agree that the city engineer should be part of this team this board that you know the individuals positions that we're talking about having comprised this what rates setting committee are all professionals I believe they can all be trusted to use the good professional judgment and so I guess I would look to

▶ 52:13 Francis X. Wright Jr.: amend the order to substitute one resident for the city engineer to staff it with the DPW Commissioner the auditor city engineer and Alderman and one

▶ 52:28 Francis X. Wright Jr.: resident a question whether or not the resident should be should well the question whether it should be a resident versus citizen I don't know if there's a difference i don't know if we want to specify that i don't know if it should be a resident slash property owner or just a resident i'm comfortable with it just being a resident but obviously property owners are the ones who pay the water and sewer bills in the city also if this board is going to see fit to approve the appointment of residents or citizens on this committee I guess I would look to have that those individuals or that individual be Appointment by this board as a whole as opposed to by the president of the board that person is coming out of this board and therefore I think we should all hope if we're going to approve this we should all have a voice voice and the selection of that person I guess I would forego making any motion at this time to the extent anyone else has any comments they would like to make I think that's that's fair and reasonable for the first time any voting

▶ 53:51 John N. Tramontozzi: members of this committee like to speak I just want a clarification for what you

▶ 53:53 Michael P. Zwirko: said so you wanted the makeup would be under your proposed amendment it would be a member of the board of aldermen a citizen the engineer and the auditor yeah through you

▶ 54:05 Francis X. Wright Jr.: mr chairman the dpw commissioner the auditor the engineer and alderman and one resident

▶ 54:15 John N. Tramontozzi: okay so i missed the dpw okay thank you um out of courtesy to all members of the board of alderman i will take any discussion from non-voting members if there wish to be any and then i think what we could do is i'm going to defer back to president khan for uh suggestions on amendments if he chooses to do so then i'll open it up to others um any other any other comments or discussion any members are non-voting or voting yes sorry thank you um just again to um clarify through

▶ 54:44 Mary Beth McAteer-Margolis: the chair with alderman Rita proposed amendment as if it becomes that it would include the director of public works and the city engineer to you mr chairman yes yes thank you um great that's

▶ 55:03 Mary Beth McAteer-Margolis: i think those two um are important both of them and as well as the auditor i mean i think the director of public works has the big picture view of what's happening in the department and where the funds may or may not be spent or coming from and certainly I think our current city engineer is more than qualified to and should be definitely on this I mean I think one of the reasons we are where we are is because we have had changes of staff and we have had you know certainly fabulous increases in use of technology to find out that we have had these issues and and we should address them I also am inclined to agree with Alderman Kahn the president Kahn that two citizens is not a bad idea and maybe especially if we put in the requirement from Alderman Wright that this board is in charge you know it makes the final appointment you know we may get people from different parts of the city you know condo owners homeowners somebody who owns a true family and lives in it so I'm not afraid of having two citizens or having it be just a little bit bigger and certainly I do think this board should also be represented so I was not at the first meeting for this but I do think it's important that we review this and thank President Kahn for bringing it forward Thank you.

▶ 56:43 John N. Tramontozzi: Alderman Mortimer.

▶ 56:45 Peter D. Mortimer: My thoughts have been expressed, thank you.

▶ 56:47 John N. Tramontozzi: Great, wonderful. Any further discussions? I think we've had some good suggestions relative to possible amendments. President Kahn, I defer back to you.

▶ 57:01 Speaker 1: Yeah, a couple of comments. As I indicated before, I agree that the city engineer should be on the committee. There's probably nobody here that disagrees with that. As to Alderman Wright point as to whether this person is designated by the President or the Board of Aldermen, I think it would be fine if the Board of Aldermen voted to approve or disapproves the name that was submitted to it by the President, perhaps.

▶ 57:34 Speaker 1: One or two citizens, at a minimum, we need one citizen. there's really no reason why we would not have some level of citizen participation on this so am i wedded to two no um i'm also mindful of the fact that this is an ordnance change and eight of us are going to have to agree with the final product so those are my thoughts and um

▶ 58:04 Speaker 1: you know again we don't have a full compliment tonight but i think we need to we need to advance

▶ 58:15 John N. Tramontozzi: this order to the full board anybody wish to make a motion to uh to amend other than right

▶ 58:27 Francis X. Wright Jr.: make a motion to amend the language by substituting well let me get my would you like

▶ 58:38 Francis X. Wright Jr.: me to read it maybe the best way for me to do is to read it the way i think it would read as amended okay so there is hereby created a water rate review committee to consist of the director of

▶ 58:55 Francis X. Wright Jr.: public works the city engineer the city auditor an alderman Appointment by the president of the board

▶ 59:07 Francis X. Wright Jr.: of aldermen and one resident nominated by the president and confirmed by the board of aldermen

▶ 59:14 Francis X. Wright Jr.: and then the committee shall meet at least quarterly to review the water rate established rates established pursuant to this section the cost of operating the water system and the capital improvements to the system it shall report its findings and any recommendations to the board

▶ 59:41 John N. Tramontozzi: of aldermen no later than the 13th day of april each year okay if i can just read it back as best

▶ 59:51 John N. Tramontozzi: i i heard it i think so it would read then that section 22815b be amended to provide there is hereby created a water rate review committee to consist of the director of public works

▶ 1:00:07 John N. Tramontozzi: city engineer the city auditor an alderman Appointment by the president of the board of alderman and one resident nominated by the President and confirmed by the Board of Aldermen. The committee shall meet at least quarterly to review the water rates established pursuant to this section, the cost of the operating water system, operating the water system, and any capital improvements to the system. It shall report its findings and any recommendations to the Board of Aldermen no later than the 13th day of April each year. Did I get that correct? Yes. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Is there a, so we have that motion to make that amendment, is there a second to that motion?

▶ 1:00:46 Speaker 2: Second.

▶ 1:00:47 John N. Tramontozzi: You can't, you can't, sorry. Is there a voting member prepared to make a second to that amendment?

▶ 1:00:54 Speaker 6: Hearing none.

▶ 1:00:56 Speaker 1: I'll second it for purposes of discussion.

▶ 1:00:58 John N. Tramontozzi: Okay, we have a second on that motion for purposes of discussion. I open up for further discussion.

▶ 1:01:06 Michael P. Zwirko: Alderman Zwerchhoff. Thank you, I support there being two citizens. on this water rate review committee it's not a hard and fast position I'm going to take I certainly will welcome at least one so that was a little bit of my hesitation to second so I appreciate the president doing so and as I also appreciate the work of Frank Wright to make this amendment as well but the point is is I'm I would like to see two so you know we have a motion before us I i understand that so um you know i feel it'll be a win if we get out of here with one but i would appreciate two the i would that that's my discussion piece um just to kind of cross my t's and dot my eyes i would ask that an amendment to the motion that's made following the words water we place and sewer there's three instances of that in the said motion so i just asked that that we add and sewer in the three instances where water shows up that's a

▶ 1:02:14 Speaker 1: motion I'm making so we have a further motion all right so we have a motion

▶ 1:02:20 John N. Tramontozzi: with the amendment as offered by Alderman Wright which I read we have a second of that motion so on the motion to amend all in favor of that motion to amend say aye voting members aye one two three what do we need for so that motion

▶ 1:02:47 John N. Tramontozzi: passes I'll go with that now is there further discussion so we have that new revised ordinance proposal you make them all those were make a motion to amend it

▶ 1:03:02 John N. Tramontozzi: to add the words and sewer correct after each instance instance where water correct mentioned okay that's everybody understands that is there a second to that motion second second any further discussions on just the insertion of and sewer after the words water within that amended proposed ordinance okay we have a second all in favor of that insertion that amendment say aye aye aye that amendment carries so now we have a revised ordinance amendment proposal

▶ 1:03:48 John N. Tramontozzi: any further discussions seeing none on that do we have a motion to

▶ 1:03:55 John N. Tramontozzi: we're not adopting, to- I make a motion to recommend the order as further amended. Further amended, okay. So now we have a motion to recommend the order as further amended by Alderman Wright. Do we have a second on that motion? Second. Seconded by President Klein. Any further discussion? Seeing none. On the motion to propose that, to approve that amendment, or to recommend that amendment, say aye. Aye. Okay, that passes. So that amended ordinance motion is recommended to the full board for passage at our next full board meeting. Motion to adjourn? Second. We have a motion to adjourn by Alderman Wright, seconded by Alderman Mortimer. Thank you. On the motion, all in favor? Aye. I oppose seeing that we are adjourned. Thank you.