Legal & Legislative Committee — 2021-04-12
Attendance
Christopher Cinella ; Jack Eccles ; Jen Grigoraitis ; Shawn M. MacMaster ; Leila Migliorelli ; John N. Tramontozzi
Agenda
Minutes
CITY OF MELROSE LEGAL & LEGISLATIVE COMMITTEE CALENDAR● APRIL 12, 2021 Web-based remote meeting Committee Meeting 7:15 PM , Melrose, MA 02176 The public should take notice that the Melrose City Council may, on certain occasions, have a quorum in attendance due to standing committees of the City Council consisting of both voting and non-voting members. Members attending this duly posted meeting are participating and deliberating only in conjunction with the business of the standing committee. Attendee Name Title Status Arrived Jen Grigoraitis Chair Present Leila Migliorelli Vice Chair Present John N. Tramontozzi Voting Present Shawn M. MacMaster Voting Present Jack Eccles Voting Present Christopher Cinella President, ex oficio Present Pursuant to Governor Baker's Order Suspending Certain Provisions of the Open Meeting Law, and the Governor's Order imposing strict limitation on the number of people that may gather in one place, this meeting of the Legal and Legislative Committee will be conducted via remote participation to the greatest extent possible. We will post a comprehensive record of these proceedings as soon as possible after the meeting on the City of Melrose website and on MMTV/mmtv3.org. The public can find online access instructions to view this meeting at www.cityofmelrose.org/remote-meetings
ORDER-2021-104 Amending Revised Ordinances Amending Chapter 173 of the Revised Ordinances of the City of Melrose Without Recommendation City Council City of Melrose Page 1 4/16/2021 12:18 PM
Transcript
▶ 21:36 Jen Grigoraitis: Committee. I am Councilor Grigoraitis, the Chair. Joining me are Vice Chair Migliorelli and voting members Tramontozzi, McMaster, Eccles, and President Sinella, ex officio. Also joining us tonight are non-voting members, Councilors Thomas, McNaught, Stewart, and Gimaldi. Pursuant to Governor Baker's order suspending certain provisions of the Open Meeting Law and the Governor's order imposing strict limitation on the number of people that may gather in one place, this meeting of the legal and legislative committee will be conducted via remote participation to the greatest extent possible we will post a comprehensive record of these proceedings as soon as possible after the meeting on the city of melrose website and on mmtv3.org
▶ 22:22 Jen Grigoraitis: and at this time without objection i will open public comment okay seeing no objections so public comment is the portion of our meeting where any member of the public may speak to any item on tonight's agenda again this is the legal and legislative committee agenda if you wish to speak if you can please raise your digital hand and this foot will bring you forward so you'll have we'll be able to hear you but not see you and if you can please state your name and address for the record thank you this but we have mr. Dipper mr. Dipper may Harris yes yes we can hear The floor is yours. Okay. My name is Myron Dittmer, 93 Altamont Ave, Melrose. I'm speaking on behalf of the Mount Hood Park Association.
▶ 23:17 We're an environmental group in Melrose dedicated to the protection, preservation, and the promotion of Mount Hood Memorial Park and golf course. Notice that the word park comes before the words golf course. This is because the park came first before the golf course. Back in 1907, John Slayton had built and donated an observation tower at the highest point at Mount Hood on 25 acres for the enjoyment of the residents. It was only later during the 1930s that the city purchased additional land to expand the park to 235 acres and build the golf course. Also later, the city built cabins for recreational purposes for both the Boy Scouts and the Girl Scouts at Mount Hood. And more recently, we now have a tot lot,
▶ 24:04 picnic areas and bike and hiking trails intersecting the golf course and because of this we can no longer separate the golf course with surrounding passive and active recreational uses at mount hood tonight i am speaking against order 2021-104 which amends chapter 173 to delete section 173-2 which currently restricts the sale of alcohol and parkland managed by the park commission i have previously discussed with you for our reasons for not deleting section 173-2 of the ordinance since by doing so it would set a bad precedent and signal to the public that the city condones alcohol sales and consumption on parkland even though such a change would add significant safety risk to all residents and families who live near and around parkland
▶ 24:58 such as mount hood as previously discussed excessive drinking remains a big problem in the city with both adults and youth and looking at our crime statistics confirms that alcohol library related crimes such as drunkenness and dui stops are increasing we believe that any change which allows alcohol and consumption in and around parkland whether it be at mount hood bowdoin park or any other park is the wrong strategy and message sent to the public and the youth of our city there are many more effective ways to support our local economy than selling alcohol on parkland such as reducing the meal tax on local resident restaurants for a period of time improving parking downtown by increasing city efforts and advertising to encourage residents to shop locally even
▶ 25:52 shutting down traffic on Main Street famously during summer months for businesses or vendors to sell their services and products as they do during the Victorian Fair in the fall. Another reason given to allow the sale of alcohol and beverage parts at Mount Hood is because this is an effective way to monitor and control alcohol rather than having golfers sneak it onto the course. This argument is totally spacious. GMC has not been able to monitor or control alcohol brought in illegally by golfers from their small parking area in front of the clubhouse what makes anyone think that they can do better on a 5 600 yard golf course which beverage carts operated by older teenagers paid at minimum wage finally at mount
▶ 26:41 hood this is not an economic issue or an issue to spur economic development since the golf course revenues already bring in millions of dollars each year and the city gets enough money from these revenues the rev to renovate and upkeep all the parks in the city the money the city would get from a beverage cart selling alcohol would be they say approximately seven thousand dollars which represents zero point zero zero eight percent of the 2021 city budget I have just heard that the city will be getting $8 million for infrastructure from the federal government under the American Rescue Plan. Therefore, this change in the ordinance is clearly not being done to spur local economic development. It is being done to satisfy special interest groups within the city with no regard to public safety.
▶ 27:32 As I have spoken to you previously, this order represents a clear and present danger for residents living adjacent to and around Mount Hood. and i can only hope that u.s city counselors who are the stewards of our green spaces in melrose will recognize your public safety responsibilities and not approve this order i've sent counselor gregory rightist a list of 27 residents who are butters or live near mount hood and who are firmly against this order deletes to delete section 173-2 of this ordinance i hope you will have the courage to vote against this order it is the right thing to do thank you for your time and attention thank you mr dimmer ms foote do we have anyone else in queue we do have mr kevin
▶ 28:20 art can you hear us yes can you hear me yes yes can you please say your name i'm sorry sure yep my name is kevin art um i actually live in new hampshire uh i am the uh the manager of mass golf management and I was asked to speak on behalf. And I just have a basic little prepared statement. Having a beverage cart on a golf course is an expectation and a norm at many golf courses. Many of our customers on a weekly basis ask if they will see a beverage cart and when they are told that that won't be possible they are surprised and unexpectedly find out that that's not the case. We believe that golfers enjoy the convenience of beverage card service where they can get not only an alcoholic beverage, but a sandwich, snack, water, soda, or even basic golf necessities.
▶ 29:16 A beverage card will also help control customers bringing their own alcohol onto the course. Currently, we are playing the role of policemen constantly having to chase and confront customers who would try to bring beer or other alcohol onto the course. This happens more often when customers know that there is not an on-course option. When the golf course is the entity providing alcoholic beverages, we are more successful in managing consumption. When we are trying to enforce prohibition, we can struggle for that control. While we are the current management company of Mount Hood Golf Course and are requesting the use of a beverage cart, we know that this will not always be true. We believe that our beverage
▶ 29:55 cart experience will allow us to create and implement an effective plan that can be used in the future management contracts to come our experience with beverage carts over the last 20 years in new hampshire where we own and operate four courses gives us the knowledge and expertise of how controlled sales from a beverage cart can improve our ability to manage alcohol in the course provide a better experience for our patrons and provide additional revenue for the park commission and for mass golf management thank you thank you ms foote do we have anyone else checking right now do not see any additional hands raised at this time at this time without objection i will close public comment shall i read the letter oh yes i'm sorry sure one letter that was a resident requested to have
▶ 30:56 read into the record write a letter dated april 8th 2021 to mayor broder i am responding to an article that appeared in the melrose free press written by myron ditmer about allowing the sale of alcohol on a beverage cart i agree with everything written by myron and would like to add some more observations as a resident of melrose for 35 years i have lived in two neighborhoods both of which had unique characteristics my first neighborhood was where we raised our children and my second neighborhood is where we help raise our grandchildren the issue in my first neighborhood was the public drinking in the fells woods this was a problem for the local and state police several times a year the police would crack down
▶ 31:34 on public drinking and make arrests when it got out of control the neighborhood i live in now next to mount hood has problems with public drinking with young people and constantly uses police resources to combat it i bring this up because a change allowing drinking in public areas will only exacerbate the problem i would like to share an event that occurred in my old neighborhood my young next door neighbors were celebrating a birthday with a group of relatives and friends the party was outside in the backyard and some of the attendees were out in the front lawn a patrol car came by and asked the people in the front to move to the yard because no public drinking was allowed hold that thought for a moment besides adult golfers using the golf
▶ 32:12 course there are youth golf programs high school golf tournaments and functions for first communion confirmation weddings and graduations some of these events occur simultaneously with golfing there are over 40 residential homes that have but the golf course ask these tasks ask these taxpayers if they want more drinking golfers using the course liability must be consideration golfers are being served by a mobile cart the bartender has no idea who is drinking and how much at the end of the golf round the golfer now goes back to the club bar or it goes down to the fishing game bar and continues drinking who knows how many drinks this person has already had now the person gets into a car and drives through the residential streets of melrose after an entire day of drinking
▶ 32:54 Jen Grigoraitis: by the way the road leading into the fish and game is a public road i asked you to hold a thought earlier in this letter whoever heard of a public park allowing public drinking if the power is to be changed the bylaws for public drinking to accommodate the golf course consider the rippling effect it will have on public drinking across the city jack hud signature thank you ms foote um so just to confirm that without objection we will now close public comment okay seeing no objection the this committee has one order before us tonight which is order 2021-104 amending chapter 173 of the revised ordinances of the city of melrose and at this time i'll entertain a motion to suspend the rule so that we can hear from members
▶ 33:39 Jen Grigoraitis: of the administration most of the generals second second so we have a motion to suspend the rules made by Councillor Eccles, seconded by Councillor Tramontozzi. Madam Clerk, can you please call the roll? Tiana Grigoraitis. Yes. Yes. Vice-Chair Migliorelli. Yes. Councillor Tramontozzi. Yes. Councillor McMaster. Yes. Councillor Eccles. Yes. President Sinella. Yes. Yes. Six yes. Yes, so the rules are now suspended. While Ms. Foote brings in our guests, I'll just remind councillors that we will, if you can please raise your hand if you have questions, and I will start with voting members of the committee and then move on to non-voting members. Mr. Gardiner, can you hear us? Yes, can you hear me?
▶ 34:42 Yes, Mr. Gardiner. Is that our only attendee? Oh, and Mr. Van Kampen. Thank you very much for letting me participate in this discussion. This is a discussion that's been going on for many, many years at Mount Hood, and we as a Park Commission have not put forward this beverage cart idea. I understand that the ordinance change is much broader than the beverage cart. However, when Mr. Diblin was talking about a nominal, He was talking with the city budget versus what our budget is. He said less than 1%. He's just wrong. The last the difference between the revenues that Mount hood has the Mount hood enterprise fund has has realized. We lost about 118,000. From 2019 to 2020. Although the projections from.
▶ 35:46 Golf management company may not be tremendous as far as our percentage. We only get 11.5 percent of the golf and 11.5 of the beverage and food. It may be 7 percent, but that's 5-7 percent of the budget that we have. We contribute, at least last year on a down year, over 600,000 to the city budget. We're self-sufficient as an enterprise fund. we have an obligation in a lot of senses to follow what the professionals are telling us. In golf management, those folks are the professionals. They run the golf course. They understand what it is. But the point I just want to make before we sign off on this is the fact that this is a control issue. It's more a control issue than it is a money issue. they've told us for years that the golf management folks are that they can control better what
▶ 36:46 happens on the golf course from an alcohol perspective if in fact they have more bodies out on the course with the with the beverage cart to see who's drinking what and who's doing what's going on they are committed to having tips certified folks they're committed to having um people who who are qualified to do this not the you know the teenage the older teenagers minimum wage folks that myron was talking about and i think they at least deserve the opportunity there will be several several conditions placed on any activity on the course that i can imagine through the liquor commission the liquor commission is probably more qualified to to impose those restrictions but i think at the same time i think i think that at least we have
▶ 37:36 to be given the opportunity to consider this it will the process and will be going forward that there will be a a full public hearing on anybody and everybody who wants to weigh in on what should happen here the the melrose park commission is only one step in the process um i think that there's a lot of background and a lot of work that should be done here. Chief Lyle has weighed in. He's come in in favor of the beverage cart for a lot of different reasons, which you folks are probably aware of. I think that in a lot of senses, that this request should be given some serious consideration this year, as opposed to past years when we may not have pushed it as hard as we did before, but frankly, we need the money. Thank you.
▶ 38:32 Thank you, Mr. Gardiner. Just for clarification for the benefit of my colleagues and the public watching at home, Mr. Gardiner is the Chair of the Parks Commission. I see Mr. Square with Mayor Broder's name on it. Is the Mayor Mr. VanCampen want to speak next? Madam Chair, I believe Mayor Broder has some introductory comments connected to this order. I don't see Mayor Broder. Mayor Broder, are you able to hear us? There we go. We all good? Everyone hear me? Outstanding. Good evening. I do very much appreciate the opportunity to meet with the committee and the other members to offer some comments on the order that is before you this evening. As you know, this order would revise section 173-2 by eliminating the absolute prohibition around possession and consumption of alcoholic beverages in land controlled by the, under the purview of the Park Commission.
▶ 39:47 To be clear, eliminating this prohibition does not mean this activity will be unregulated by any stretch of the imagination. Quite the contrary, any vendors would still have to endure a rigorous two-step approval process through both the park commission and the liquor commission now this process does provide for public notice and an opportunity to be heard excuse me before such a license can be granted and to a point that was raised earlier anyone serving alcohol whether it's for on-premises or off-premises consumption is required to have tip certification for those who don't know that is training specifically designed to help service check ids and assess patrons for their quite frankly their level of inebriation uh in excuse me in particular context um striking down this
▶ 40:45 section will give the city more not less control over patron drinking particularly at the golf course now the licensing process and required controls put the city in a strong position to thoughtfully drive policy around alcohol in park spaces. I want to be clear that despite the heartfelt nature of the testimony that has come before, I want to make sure you-all understand, I know you do, that what we're discussing tonight is not the licensing of a beverage cart at Mount Hood. It would initiate a process where that would be a possibility. But again, that would have to go through both the Park Commission And the liquor commission before any approval of that particular manifestation of this change.
▶ 41:32 Could go forward now, during my campaign for mayor, I promised to explore. Changing our liquor beer wine regulation and ordinances with an eye towards enhancing economic opportunity. And with an eye towards enhancing quality of life, quite frankly, to that end last year, I convened an advisory group to provide me with advice and recommendations in that area. and i want to let you all know who was on that group um it's consisted of the following members of the city solicitor robert van campen kelly cargavan his assistant um emma schner particular who's a senior planner in the office of planning and community development joe nevin is the chair of the liquor commission uh brendan kent who is a melrose resident many you may remember brendan as
▶ 42:22 a former phys ed and wellness PE instructor in the Melrose Public Schools. He is now the athletic director for the Wakefield Public Schools and in that role as a very deep role in terms of wellness, alcohol abuse prevention, substance abuse prevention. You're a real leader in that area. Mark Arelli, who some of you might know as a local resident, is a musician and music producer who performs regularly throughout the Northeast. We also have Lindsay Target, who is a Melrose resident and a mom at the Roosevelt School. I think you all know Dr. Frank Ranchero from the Melrose Board of Health. Richie Talieri is the proprietor at Giacomo's, and Lauren Grimmick, the former Executive Director of the Melrose Chamber of Commerce,
▶ 43:13 who you all quite frankly have a good sense to just appoint to the Melrose Commission on Women. now the group did complete its work in the summer of 2020 and given covid um we that we quite frankly intentionally slowed down the process but one of the recommendations they talked about was the need to revise this section which does delineate various offenses in parks including but lord knows not limited to the possession the possession and consumption of any intoxicating liquors and we've already talked a little bit about two examples that have that have already even referenced that show how the restriction impacts local enterprises. For several years, the Parks Commission has considered the possibility of a beverage cart at the Mount Hood Golf Course.
▶ 43:59 Now, unless and until this ordinance is repealed, that is not possible, quite frankly, to even consider. The Parks Commission nor the Liquor Commission could consider that activity and impose restrictions on it or limitations. That would not at all be possible without this change. Another example that Mr. Dittmer mentioned was the farmer's market, which is located in Bowdoin Park, which is under control, which land is under control of the park commission. Now, this means again that under the current ordinance, the market cannot sell beer, wine, cider, unlike many other farmers markets, including the market In nearby weight field and patrons quite frankly cannot even purchase such items. To take home and enjoy, or to give us gifts or whatever the case might be.
▶ 44:53 Vendors have expressed the desire to offer these products. And these products have been well received when we have had the opportunity to offer them. Uh, at winter markets where the park prohibition. Does not apply and the attention here is to give those vendors. opportunity to sell that full array of products much like they would at their their brick and mortar brick and mortar locations eliminating this section would absolutely ease the current prohibition and would make the farmers market a more attractive venue for local businesses and consumers and i have to note that i did have an opportunity to watch a little bit of your discussion about the santa fe grill which was excellent and i know the question came up
▶ 45:40 uh as to whether or not they would have the opportunity to do outdoor service well in terms of beer and wine or potentially other alcoholic beverages to the extent that the land that they're considering doing that on encroaches on parkland as we sit here today that proposal is a hundred percent dead on arrival and i suggest if we could have a conversation through a regulatory process we might come to something that satisfies folks safety concerns and provides an amenity that we have seen uh with outdoor dining since the pandemic hit is something that our residents and i suspect people outside the community want and will draw more patrons into our community now that having been said as i stated previously this change would not represent
▶ 46:32 an end to the control of possession of alcohol and to reiterate nothing can happen if this order is passed without the express approval of the park commission and the liquor commission now probably of less interest but still important is there are several outdated or redundant provisions in this in this section um it is duplicative of certain city ordinances and state laws which I think Chief Lyle is available to address and there is some quite frankly unconstitutional language depending on how it is applied around limitations to speech and worship. I respectfully suggest that this order provides us an opportunity to move forward to give, quite frankly, our businesses and many members of our community
▶ 47:29 the opportunity, at a minimum, to explore opportunities that are available in many other spaces, quite frankly, but are not currently available in certain other locations within the city. I've already gone on too long. I know you have many questions and myself and the administration are happy to answer any questions you might have or any clarifications you may want thank you mr mayor um mr van campen or chief lyle did you want to say anything in advance or can we or do you want to get to questions we can go we can go right to questions i think the mayor has basically covered all the bases okay all right so um so far i've seen councillor Migliorelli so i'll turn it over to you thank you madam chair um thank you
▶ 48:22 Leila Migliorelli: um for the administration for being here tonight um some of my questions have been answered but like the mayor said you know to clarify i think for the public we're not voting on beverage card at mount hood tonight um and what we are doing is it's striking an ordinance that has um a lot of other language in there that prohibits a number of offenses in our parks and it sounds like from the mayor um that most of those other offenses and it was covered in his memo um are are covered by other state laws and city ordinances um so just want to be clear about that the one reference um mayor broder and i don't know if this is for mr van campen in the memo that you did not reference um that the the section that says um not to pray aloud or make an oration or harangue or any
▶ 49:13 Paul Brodeur: political speech or canvas or solicitation that that part in your memo you didn't specify whether that's prohibited by other or allowable under other state laws could you speak to that question quick question first i will do that quickly and i will defer to the city solicitor justin k i like to say i'm a i'm a recovering lawyer um but um there are probably um statutes out there that that do prohibit that activity uh potentially but i suggest with a high degree of confidence that that they are unconstitutional. You can certainly have some limits on time and manner of expression. It is likely that it would be appropriate for if someone wanted to have a large religious service with many people attending,
▶ 50:05 Paul Brodeur: that might be subject to a permanent requirement. Someone standing, let's say, in Milano Park on the corner of Grove and Main, we've actually already seen it on certain occasions. Speaking their mind, that is something that, quite frankly, we shouldn't and can't regulate unless it comes to the point where it is goes outside the bounds of First Amendment protections. It's just solicitor, I'm not sure if there's anything to add to help out with that. Just just to put a finer point on that. The mayor is absolutely correct. The 1 thing we looked at when considering changes to this ordinance. From a 1st amendment, sort of a free expression, free speech. Perspective, so, as a municipality, as a government, we can't impose reasonable restrictions as to time place and manner. And I think the mayor spoke to that.
▶ 51:05 This is an absolute prohibition. On those activities, so that's why, at least from my office's perspective, we were concerned. About that language continuing in place. I tried to do a little research counselor. As to the, the origin of this particular ordinance, and we know that. We know that the board of park commissioners was created by. I believe special act and I'll refer I'll defer to chair Gardiner on that 1. uh in the 1930s and this ordinance appears to go that far back so i suspect that a lot of the language that's in this ordinance has now become outdated by you know state law changes etc uh and at the time the question of praying aloud or engaging in political activity on public land
▶ 51:55 Leila Migliorelli: i can't speak to the solicitor who wrote this particular ordinance at that time but i suspect that it was not top of mind but there were certain restrictions that you just simply cannot impose uh by what so thank you um also related so in doing some research um i noticed that ordinance 177.2 does place some restriction on drinking in public places so um just for the benefit of everyone else um the that ordinance says no person shall drink or possess in any open or partially consumed container any alcoholic beverages is defined by mg mgl 138 while on in or upon public way or upon any way to which the public has a right of access or any place to which members of the public have access as invitees or licensees or a park or a playground or private land or place
▶ 52:49 Leila Migliorelli: without consent of the owner or person in control thereof so um i just wanted to focus on that and if that is creates an issue here or does the statement about with without consent um who would be the consenting authority to allowing um you know possession of alcoholic beverages um and is that the city at large is that the parks commission so just want some Yeah, and just, and that's a very good point. Chief Lyle and I actually were talking about 177-2 when we began this process and that ordinance and keeping it on the books actually speaks to the layer of approvals that would be required for any entity to be licensed to sell or consume alcohol on, in this case, parkland. In the case of 177-2, so if it was on parkland, you would still require
▶ 53:44 the consent of the park commission through their regulatory permitting process. If it were, for example, and we're living it today, a public street, a public sidewalk, wooden fire as a prime example, has table or will soon have table service right on Essex Street where alcohol will be served that required the consent of the city through the department of public works so so i view 177-2 counselor as a real strong sort of uh symbolic mechanism that that supports the proposition that there have to be a number of regulatory approvals before uh the activity that is being allowed if you will by striking 173-2 can actually occur okay quick quick comment That sounds to me like an open container law,
▶ 54:39 which I think might also be embedded in state law. I don't want to get too far over my skis on that, but I think that is a contrast with perhaps New Orleans, which has no such thing. And then one, I have a few more questions. So you can, in the memo, it mentioned that no alcohol will be sold on school grounds or at other athletic fields? Does that mean that non-school athletic fields or athletic games? I know there were some questions about that from the public. Yeah, so there's a statute on that activity. Chapter 272, Section 40A actually speaks to selling, delivering, or possessing alcohol on what is called school premises. So for example, depending on, again, depending on the nature of the real estate that we're talking about,
▶ 55:37 if it's deemed school premises, any ability to sell or consume alcohol on that real estate would require approval of the school committee. Once again, council, that's a very good point. Here yet again is another layer of regulatory oversight. For example, I would argue if Fred Greenfield, As an example, we're considered for some type of an alumni event, let's say, and they wanted to have a 1 day liquor license. And have, you know, have that kind of an event. My argument is that that would require school committee approval. Power commission approval liquor commission approval 3 layers of regulatory approval. In order to allow that 1 day liquor license, and obviously the liquor commission would be the last step.
▶ 56:28 In the process, because if the park commission and the school committee said, no, then clearly the commission would have no authority to issue a license at that point. If I go ahead in terms of in terms of youth exposure. The, which is the regulatory body for. I guess I take school related athletic events. That's an absolute prohibition on alcohol being present at their events. As do most, if not all of the. Youth sports federations, like, you know, literally baseball does not allow. Serving a serving of liquor, um. So, there's also the, those kind of control provisions that you will. Okay, thank you. Um, so just getting back to the sort of the impetus for this around, um, helping to if we strike this ordinance, it then goes through several steps.
▶ 57:28 Leila Migliorelli: But with the ultimate goal of stimulating economic activity in Melrose, and so we've already talked a little bit about Mount hood and the farmer's market. None of those are neither locally owned businesses, but do you envision any other instances in which people would be working with the business community, supporting the business community Melrose? And what type of events would you see happening at some of our other parks that would sort of necessitate this ability to have like alcohol at parks? So like the Common or El Pond Park, Gooch Park, what are the things are you envisioning? Is it private parties by people that can, seek a one day license if it's not, if it's not school related athletics,
▶ 58:15 Paul Brodeur: I know there's adult teams that play at parks. Is that something that you could seek a one day license for? So what's sort of the vision and kind of how do you connect that to economic activity in Melrose specifically? Sure, I'll start and I think Joan or Bill might want to speak to it as well. But first of all, I mean, quite frankly, I disagree with the proposition that the farmer's market and the folks operating the golf course within the city of Melrose aren't Melrose businesses. One is a nonprofit that is, Yeah, that has a board of directors and employees that are all as far as I know. Melrose residents and the wow. Golf management is not located here, but they, they are effectively run the business there.
▶ 59:06 Paul Brodeur: And we certainly want to see them do well, and their success is our success. I also, and there are certainly opportunities for. Our local, our local businesses say. Um, or or, you know, our restaurant folks. To be creative about what they might. What they might want to propose, and we would have to listen to that. I think on a case by case basis, but. 1 thing that strikes me is if you want, you want to create an atmosphere. Where people are are drawn to Melrose. So, in the example of I'll use the golf course, but maybe a better example is when. The symphony played out on. You know, they're outdoor concert out on the baseball field. And I suspect many of us were there and I think while they're.
▶ 1:00:07 Paul Brodeur: Well, there was no permitting or licensing there. I think we are all. Not so naive to believe that there was no drinking going on at that. But it was a very well, very well run. Highly controlled event and I certainly think we should consider the possibility. That that could be duplicated. With whatever vendor wants to make a proposal as long as they are responsible. And willing to go through the process, and we see the symphony. mayor broder i'm sorry to interrupt speaking of laws um we this body needs to comply with open meeting law um so we need to recess from this so that we can open public comment for appropriation yeah sorry welcome welcome to a busy night don't worry so um just for the public watching at home
▶ 1:01:01 Jen Grigoraitis: where i will entertain a motion recess from legal and ledge motion recess second we have a motion to recess made by councillor migliorelli seconded by councillor mcmaster madam clerk yes vice chair migliorelli yes councillor Tramontozzi yes councillor mcmaster yes councillor eccles yes president sonella yes success success so this meeting is recessed i will turn it over to councillor mcnaught for the opening of appropriations and then we can hopefully return to legal unless thank you thank you council Grigoraitis um just to be clear what i'm going to do here is get us to open public comment and then i think we should recess and come back and finish here everybody's okay with that that said good good evening the time is 802
▶ 1:06:48 Paul Brodeur: YBCs provides food and beverage service subject to the licensing controls that we're discussing. Of course, they don't go through the Park Commission because of that particular location. I think hopefully, we've all been to the very successful, very enjoyable Beer and Bites events that have gone on at Memorial Hall. Again, with that same licensing control, the indoors farmers markets at Memorial Hall do have that provision that we've discussed already. Even outdoors, I've seen a couple of circumstances where I guess I'd call them beer gardens or beverages were allowed to be served at the fire faders 5k that was probably 100 feet. from the Melrose Common went through that process. At least one time there was,
▶ 1:07:47 I want to say it was the Spooky Sprint, where I think it was the applicant that had beverage accessibility in the parking lot, in between Regina Gifts and their function hall. I think in many respects, given the nature of the control, we should be prepared to consider, would obviously be on a case-by-case basis, these types of things in a broader space. I think you all know there's been a lot of interest in the community for additional performance spaces that most likely, if they would be done, would be located in park spaces, perhaps near a pond or whatever the case may be, That possibility again, no guarantee, but the possibility that there might be occasions. Where that is appropriate for, um, some kind of beverage service.
▶ 1:08:51 Leila Migliorelli: I think we should at least be prepared to explore and then, of course, um. The possibility for private functions. Um, your weddings and the, like, certainly a possibility. i'm not sure um if folks are kind of there yet with those that would certainly be willing to again consider it in the context of the licensing process counselor mcglee really i believe we were on your questions do you have any additional questions and i can i can cede my time if if we want to change it up but just a kind of a follow-up to those points so i guess the strategy here was to just strike this ordinance and leave it with the liquor commission i've noticed in other cities do have a little bit more parameters within their city ordinances around the sale of
▶ 1:09:40 Leila Migliorelli: liquor and just a little bit more explicitly talking about permitting, deferring to the permitting process. I think what's confusing here for the public is that the council doesn't have any authority for liquor permitting and we can't really speak to the regulations. And I think a lot of the questions that came up were related to that. I know obviously it's something that we could pursue as a council um but also you know you as a as mayor could could do that is this you know seeing this just striking the language and not making any reference to the sale of alcohol and um open spaces is that just wanted to get your thoughts on that oh yeah there's already a a a very comprehensive regime of regulation
▶ 1:10:25 around this, quite frankly, and I think that both commissions are very, very mindful of their role as public stewards. And you're right, there are different ways that communities do this. Some communities retain all licensing with the legislative branch. Some kick it all 1,000% to a single licensing body, but I think we are at a point where we have a pretty sophisticated group and a very strong regulatory regimen, and I think that it has served us well, and I think it can continue to do so. Thank you, Mayor Broder. Madam Chair, I do have some questions regarding mount hood specifically for probably for mr Gardiner um happy to continue with that unless you want to move along um why if you're comfortable if we could hold those i know
▶ 1:11:30 Jack Eccles: we have a few other counselors in view um next up i have counselor eccles thank you madam chair i think many of my questions um have been asked uh i think that it's kind of worthwhile to just hammer home the point that it's um this the change this ordinance change doesn't make it so that you know anyone can can drink in a public park um i guess one thing i'd like to ask is kind of if mr van campen if this is the right question for you to kind of describe the licensing process and what that looks like in front of the liquor commission um and then i can ask a compound question if you're okay with that it's just like how does the enforcement of an alcohol a vendor for alcohol go if they if they kind of
▶ 1:12:20 fall outside of the rules what are some of the penalties there so um i'll use mount hood as as an example so um um golf management has a uh a license to sell alcohol um out of the clubhouse at mount hood so the process for example with respect to mount hood would require them to file an application with the Melrose Liquor Commission for what is known as an alteration of premises, which means they are merely going to expand the premises of their license to include the golf course itself, which would allow the beverage cart to serve alcohol and allow that to be conducted as a licensed activity. Before the alteration of premises would be approved by the liquor commission it would have to go uh before the commission through
▶ 1:13:16 a public hearing process so the so the members of the community uh would have the ability certainly to uh voice their uh support or opposition uh to that application for an alteration of premises so that is as as relates to mount hood and golf management um another example um if i'm answering your if i understand your question correctly counselor uh would be for example the melrose symphony orchestra and let's say they wanted to have an annual fourth of july outdoor concert uh at morelli field or at the at the west knoll um at that point they would be required to get approval from the park commission theoretically uh assuming morelli is considered school premises theoretically the school committee and then when they apply to the liquor licensing commission
▶ 1:14:08 Jack Eccles: they are applying for what's known as a one-day license. That one-day license gives them permission at that one moment in time within a certain umbrella of hours to sell alcohol and allow for the consumption of alcohol at that event. That one-day license would also require a public process before the Liquor Commission. So I hope that answers your question. Yeah, and then the latter half of my question, which is just what does what does it look like? Is it the liquor commission that does any enforcement if a vendor who serves alcoholic and it violates any laws around serving minors or over serving that enforcement kind of handle and by what body? Yeah, so enforcement of the liquor laws, enforcement of any license conditions,
▶ 1:15:03 would be conducted by agents of the Liquor Commission and the primary agent of the Liquor Commission is the Norris Police Department. In addition to that, the Alcohol Beverage Control Commission, which is the state agency governing liquor licensing across the Commonwealth, conducts compliance checks on an unannounced basis. So, for example, If you have an event, the ABCC may send one of their inspectors to that event to ensure that your bar staff is TIP certified, that you're following all required protocols, both under Chapter 138, which is the statute governing liquor licensing in the Commonwealth, as well as any conditions that may have been imposed by the local commission. So it would be Melrose Police and, to a certain extent, the ABCC as well.
▶ 1:15:51 Jack Eccles: Gotcha. I think I just have one more question, which is, if the Liquor Licensing Commission is going to issue a change of premises or a new license or a renewal, do they have access to any previous violations and are those publicly disclosed as part of the licensing process? Yes. And in addition to that, and that's a very good point, the Liquor Commission is fully empowered to discipline any licensee for any violation of its regulations or any license condition, and that could involve suspension of the license for a number of days, weeks, or months, or revocation of the license itself. So, there are some teeth in terms of ensuring that anyone holding a liquor license, which is a privilege in the City
▶ 1:16:41 Jack Eccles: Melrose is abiding by all requirements thank you and you just brought up one more question which is if if for example this ordinance were to pass and the change of premises was issued by the liquor licensing committee commission if there were issues involving the sale on the course could they revoke just the change of premises as as part of the disciplinary action it's basically do we have a chance to take it back it turns out to not correct in that case the liquor commission is is certainly fully empowered to you know impose any level of discipline that would address the violation i also would point out to the members of the committee that the for example the gulf management liquor license at mount hood is renewed on an annual basis and the
▶ 1:17:33 liquor commission must approve the renewal of that license on an annual basis so if there's any activity um during the preceding 12-month period and i believe the police department is occasionally uh asked for input as to license activity or activities connected to a licensee um if there's any issue uh during the preceding 12-month period i imagine the liquor commission would look at those instances very closely in evaluating whether or not to renew the license and in the case of for example the golf course whether or not to renew it as a full premises license including you know the 18 holes of the golf course or just the function hall thank you i just want to put a little bit of a of a finer point on that i don't know if hopefully it's
▶ 1:18:19 Paul Brodeur: helpful is the commission also during the licensing process uh has the ability and frank camp and correct me if i'm wrong to essentially alter the application by that i mean if someone were to i'll use the farmers markets as a in a hypothetical example if the the farmer's market wanted to have beer and wine for sale, say, and also proposed, again, I think this is highly unlikely, some consumption area would be perfectly within the control of the Liquor Commission to say, we are issuing a license for sale only and not consumption, much like we have two different licenses for beverages not to be consumed on the premises versus a more traditional restaurant license. Thank you both. Thank you, Madam Chair.
▶ 1:19:29 Christopher Cinella: You're muted. Sorry, sticky mouse. I was just saying that next up is President Cinella, followed by non-voting members Jamala Dean and Stewart, and if I'm missing anyone in the queue, if you can. Okay, I apologize. So we'll continue with our voting members. So President Cinella, councillor mcmaster and then councillor Tramontozzi the president validates the course thank you madam chair i believe that's a fine to speak on mute um most of you uh asked many of the questions that i have but i would like to hear from the chief who lives relatively close to mount hood and what what say you about beverage cart and how that would control I mean, they have grounds through roaming around the course, as it is, that could confiscate
▶ 1:20:28 or throw people off the course for drinking and bringing their own booze. What are your thoughts? What are you hearing from your neighbors? Well, to start out, I lived in Stapsville for a couple of months. I've been a member up there for 30 years. I'm still a student of the game. I think I always will be. But on any given weekend, I'll go up there and I'll play and I'll look at the barrels and every tea box are full of beer cans from Saturday. I'll use the term, it's the Wild West up there. No offense, Mr. Gardiner, but what's going on up there now is not working. That's why, you know, if a beverage cart's a solution, I'm in on it, I'll support it. As far as the control up there, it's up to the rangers, and those rangers are generally
▶ 1:21:17 all weekends covering the front, which is the front nine and the back nine. But most of the consumption up there that I can see is being smuggled onto the golf course. So, many of my neighbors are quite upset about it. I know that there was questions about underage drinking up there any Friday or Saturday night. You'll see kids going up there with backpacks, and they're not going up there to study. they go off into the woods, if they go deep into the woods in Saugus, there's nothing the Morales Police Department can do. If they go deep into the woods behind the playground up there, we run three sectors. It's virtually impossible for us to put two officers in there and leave one sector covered on the city.
▶ 1:21:55 Christopher Cinella: That's my thought on that. I will support this if there's some control measures in place. I think these might have been answered already, but maybe for the mayor or Mr. Van Campen. do you has the liquor commission already kind of categorized out the permits as far as so if i want to one day i want to have champagne down at the gazebo i need to apply you know from my from getting married or whatever doing photos and i want to have champagne that's a one-day license versus an ongoing license like the beverage cart like cedar park they have to reapply every like Like, one's different than the other, and then you've got the consumption aspect versus just the sale. So, these all different have these all been kind of sorted out.
▶ 1:22:49 So, that's a good question. So under state law, there is a, there is what's known as a section 15, 138 section, 15 license and a 138 section 12 license. Those are licenses. For either on premises consumption or off premises consumption. So. think of buccaloos and beacon hill as licensees for off-premises consumption the folks who buy liquor in those establishments do not consume it on premises the mount hood the gmc license is a an on-premise license which means you buy your beverage and you consume your beverage on premises so um the gmc license is an annual license that on-premises license it's a restaurant license it's an annual license that is renewed at the end of every calendar year the event you
▶ 1:23:37 mentioned uh council the champagne event uh that i think you said you were going to plan for the members of the city council that event would be a one-day liquor license it would be a non-recurring event so that's a separate type of license issued by the liquor commission so if you think about a farmers market doing an annual event on open space for the mso for example i use them as an example just to use them as an example but the mso having an event on open space so that would be under a one-day license because it's a non-recurring event thank you just a point of order mr van camp in every event with the city council is a champagne event um so uh and then next we'll we'll move on to Councilor Tremendous.
▶ 1:24:27 Thank you, Madam Chair. Mr. Van Camp and I have a few questions for you. The golf management company has a lease arrangement with the city. How does that work and how is the revenue, in particular, the revenue that the GMC gets from serving liquor at the clubhouse? How is that dispersed to the city, if at all? What does the city get? I'll let Chair Gardiner comment a little bit here. But generally speaking, golf management has a management agreement with the City of Melrose who manage our public, we own golf course. As part of that management agreement, there is a concession agreement that allows golf management to operate the concessions that comprise the golf course operation, which includes the liquor license under which alcohol is served at the golf course.
▶ 1:25:38 I believe, and I don't have the exact numbers in front of me, but I know Mr. Gardiner will correct me. I believe the City of Melrose receives 11 of the gross receipts of all concession activity at the golf course and i want to i want to be very clear about um where those funds go as members likely know mount hood is operated under an enterprise fund so every dollar raised at mount hood whether through greens fees or concession revenue or golf cart rentals is um ultimately Passed into the Mountwood enterprise fund, so it doesn't go to the city's general fund. It goes into the mounted enterprise fund and then it goes as a result of that. Basically back into Mount hood and public open space. The management contract, just so, you know, I think sets a minimum threshold.
▶ 1:26:36 Where the managing company gets. The 1st, 600,000 in revenue on the golf course. And then above 600,000, and typically we hit, we get a target above. 600,000 clearly at the golf course above that 600,000. The city through the enterprise fund receives a share of those additional revenues going up to, I believe 1.2Million dollars. Chair Gardiner, am I correct in saying that you are correct? The. The share on the food and beverage is 11.5 percent and we split the revenues based on the contract numbers with GMC. GMC's contract runs about another year, another year and a half. It's a publicly bid contract so that it goes out to bid every every five years or so and it's going to come up again very, very soon. So this vote could
▶ 1:27:36 John N. Tramontozzi: be important based upon the attractiveness of the next round of bidders with this particular golf course one of the arguments uh for these alcohol cards was that it would raise revenues for the city but i don't see how much revenues it's going to really raise if uh if we because i assume that the alcohol cards would be under the concession uh part of the agreement which would only give us 11.5 percent so we're not generating uh all that kind of income that these cards supposedly will generate and for that matter i i is that correct mr van camping to fall under that provision of the contract actually would uh counselor in in the thing with that particular point was in years past gmc has always asked us to put this forward uh to the council as to whether
▶ 1:28:33 or not they could have a beverage cart up at the golf course in years past we've done the same analysis that you just put your finger on how much money we're going to make does it make any sense the point i was trying to make and and possibly i didn't do it but there was a drop off in income between 2019 and 2020 for us about 118 113 000 due to the pandemic due to various other issues Even $7,000, as I think is in the packet, the GMC would project that we could make as our 11.5 percent of the beverage is about 5-7 percent of our budget. It's less money that we come asking the council for. You folks, I would imagine, would know better than anybody else in the city that every nickel counts right now in this uncertainty.
▶ 1:29:29 I think this is the time that we at least have to explore the issue. Everybody's discussed what a long process this is going to be. We still have the liquor commission that has to weigh in on this. There's going to be a big public hearing that we would conduct. I don't know what the population will do. We've said no as far as pushing forward the request from GMC in years past on the beverage card. To be honest, a lot of times it's because at the same point you're making, as a counselor, is the fact that we didn't make enough money on it. But I think in this climate, in this situation we're in now, it's at least worth considering. But we don't get to first base unless we get by this particular .
▶ 1:30:15 John N. Tramontozzi: I appreciate that, Mr. Gardiner. Thank you. But I also am looking at the social host liability. This is different. We're providing uh the alcoholic beverages being consumed on the golf course that significantly increases the risks against the city that i see uh it's different than the golfers bringing their own alcoholic beverages and sneaking contract our contract says otherwise our contract says that they indemnify us totally and they have to provide liquor liability coverage i'm sure it does and that's good uh providing the insurance but doesn't prevent uh the city from being named in any kind of litigation that may may occur but but yeah i appreciate that that's uh that's generally how these indemnification agreements uh occur um we always get dragged in yeah i know we always get
▶ 1:31:07 John N. Tramontozzi: dragged we still always do but i the the less time do we get dragged in the better would be uh because we are in the uh in the long run um let's just assume for argument's sake all right that um mount hood golf course did not exist would we be looking to eliminate uh 173.2 of our ordinances and if so why if mount hood golf course uh didn't exist uh i don't know that 173-2 would exist to be honest with you uh and i say that because if you look at the entirety of of Chapter 173, there's a section in 173 that actually, I think it's Section 17 that refers to the fact that these provisions, I'm looking at the current ordinance, Sections 173-2 through 173-13 being the rules and regulations of the park department shall not be altered or
▶ 1:32:08 amended without the approval of the Board of Park Commissioners. The uniqueness of this chapter in our city ordinance is that what we're talking about tonight, back in the early history of Mount Hood, are actually part of the regulations that govern how the Board of Park Commissioners after they were created, were governing and overseeing all of our parkland and open space throughout the city. To specifically answer your question, if the golf course didn't exist, an argument can be made that this ordinance wouldn't exist because quite frankly, the Board of Park Commissioners may not have been comprised as it was through the Slayton bequest and everything else. But in the final analysis, whether or not the golf course is in existence,
▶ 1:32:53 173-2 would still be looked at as an obstacle to what this administration is trying to do with spurring additional experiences and activities on public open space that we in the administration and the mayor can speak more eloquently to this than i can but that we in the administration think would actually add a benefit to the community not take away from the community and the question about um liability um that's a fair question counselor and i as you know like you i have to think of liability issues every day in my role, we actually view this and I've had conversation with Chair Nevin of the Liquor Commission with Mayor Broder and even with Mr. Gardiner in the past, we actually view the ability
▶ 1:33:43 specific to Mount Hood to have a licensed beverage cart on the 18 holes of the golf course as an actual way to control alcohol consumption and reduce liability as associated with the golf course operation so if i'll jump in real briefly here the short answer the question is is yes we would because the opportunities exist regardless of whether or not the golf course exists and the controls in place would be the same um you know it's very much hypothetical because the golf of course, does exist and is selling liquor at the clubhouse. But again, the example, which is I suppose a small one, of the opportunities for things like the farmer's market would justify at least opening up the licensing process so that folks can consider it.
▶ 1:34:48 John N. Tramontozzi: Mr. Van Kampen, isn't it? Is it possible? We could narrow the language in this ordinance to allow for the use of the parks, which remember now we're talking about parks that are utilized by children, by students and so forth. Minors minors. But we could narrow down that provision to allow for the one day liquor licenses that such as the Meryl Symphony, if they chose to perform in the public park or on the farmers market and so forth. You know, why do we need to have a blanket, you know, open elimination of the prohibition on alcohol consumption in our public parks to, you know, ultimately to benefit the golf course when we can do the one-day liquor licenses? And, you know, I prefer to see something like that take place rather than the total elimination of the prohibition on consumption on the parks.
▶ 1:35:53 Certainly, and I assume there are always different ways to look at a particular issue. In this case, going back to what Councilor Migliorelli asked at the beginning of the meeting, 177-2 continues to contain that type of protection. There's still an approval process before you can possess alcohol on public space, parks, streets, sidewalks. And when we begin this process of looking at this ordinance and deciding what the best approach was, you know, it became clear not only that the language in 173-2 dealing with the sale and possession or the possession and consumption of alcohol was overlapped to a certain extent by 177-2. It became clear that other provisions in 173-2 were either antiquated, basically overridden by state law or superseded to a certain extent by state law, or to a point the mayor raised earlier, the ability to prohibit, blanketly prohibit, I should say, prayer or political speech is just not something that our administration
▶ 1:37:13 John N. Tramontozzi: in any event, wanted to keep on our ordinance books as offensive under the Constitution. So when we look through this whole ordinance, we concluded as an administrative team that the entire section should be struck given for the same reasons I just offered you. Well, thank you for that explanation, but I still have to be mindful of the residents' concerns as previously noted earlier in the meetings and uh uh and and and those concerns are concerns that i would have as well uh so i'm i'm i'm not likely at this point uh i'm not convinced that this is the proper way to go and and i'm i don't think i'm gonna i would be supporting it but i appreciate that uh that's all i have now uh madam chief thank you council thank you
▶ 1:38:08 Shawn M. MacMaster: Thank you, Councillor Tramontozzi. Councillor McMaster. Thank you, Madam Chair. I just had one question. I know that Vice Chair Migliorelli has other questions and I don't want to infringe on her path. I could see the direction she was going in some of the questions. So I'll just stick with one question that I think is unrelated to where any other Councillors have gone. And that question relates to what's next. And what I mean by that is this is now the second order that's come before us in a matter or five months related to the sale and consumption of alcohol. Mr. Mayor, you referenced the advisory group that you brought together. I think you said that it concluded its work in November. I'm wondering what other recommendations were put forth that might result
▶ 1:39:01 Shawn M. MacMaster: in this council being asked to look at other ordinances, or for the city to consider changing regulations relative to the sale and consumption of alcohol. I think it's important when we look at these to have some sense of where we are going as a city, what's the ultimate direction before we vote on these in piecemeal. And I did say that at the time in November when we had the other order before us that I was hopeful that maybe there would be an omnibus order. And I thought that might be the next step after that order that It came before us after the work of the of the advisory group to give us a better sense of the long term picture. So that when we're voting on these, we're not voting on them as they come before us.
▶ 1:39:47 Shawn M. MacMaster: But as part of a larger plan that I think relates to what you reference in your memo, Mr. mayor, which is economic development. So, again, wondering what what's next, which we expect to potentially have in front of us. if anything, as a council related to the sale and consumption of alcohol. Thank you. I'm trying to think of what the other one was. To allow other businesses to sell alcohol. I think that was a way back. I don't think that was six months ago. That obviously, that doesn't matter. I think, quite frankly, it's important for these things to rise or fall on their own. I think it was important for the community, and happily, you all and the legislature agreed that there could be a limited expansion of the availability of spirits to
▶ 1:40:56 our license holders that currently have beer and wine, and one existing business in Melrose has been through that process at least from the city side and another one is in the midst of preparing um to do that um and this i mean i again i think this stands on its own i'm always looking for opportunities not just in in this arena or um or hospitality maybe maybe really large um But right now, I don't anticipate the council having another order to take up. Certainly, you might think of things on your own that you want to take up that we'd be happy to consider. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Councilor McMaster, if I could just add to the mayor's comment. One of the focuses of the advisory group was to determine any necessary regulatory changes
▶ 1:42:02 That the liquor commission would have to consider, given the passage of the recent. Home rule petition that that allowed for expanded alcohol sales and our retail food establishment. So a number of the. Ideas and concepts that that advisory group has basically. Looked at and offered thoughts on the mayor broader. Really revolve around regulatory changes that are within the exclusive jurisdiction of the liquor commission. Less so the city council, but I think the mayor is correct when he says that there is likely not. Any other legislative change to propose to the city council. At least at this, you know, at this particular point in time. Thank you. Thank you. Madam chair. Thank you. Council McMaster. I'll circle back now to vice chair before we move on to non voting numbers.
▶ 1:42:56 Leila Migliorelli: Thank you, Madam chair, and thank you, Mr. and you just provided a good segue into my next question in terms of regulatory versus legislative policy that the council can do with the beverage cart. I'm just curious about how the allowance of the sale of alcohol on the not including food goes. So, for example, how do we rationalize the fact that in our restaurants? You have to order food while you're drinking, but this beverage cart would be operating on the golf course without requiring food. And I know that, you know, in looking at that, that, that food piece is part of isn't that part of the regulatory rules under the liquor commission? I guess even stepping back or further, like, it's a little bit unfortunate. This whole conversation is done under the light of Mount hood because we don't this is not what we have purview over. We don't have purview over the regulatory stipulations that the liquor commission does.
▶ 1:43:56 And while constituents are coming to us unhappy with some of this, there's not much that we can do about that. So, specifically with this, even though we don't have purview over it. How do we reconcile those 2 things? Well, I think, first of all, it's an assumption that the beverage cart would be exclusively a beverage cart. Most beverage carts that I've experienced at golf courses, when I've studied the game, as Chief Lyle likes to say, have a food component to them, whether it's hot dogs or whatever it is, prepared foods or you name it. My sense is the commission would clearly require some food component to any beverage cart on the golf course as our regulations require that for a restaurant licensee, there must
▶ 1:44:47 Leila Migliorelli: be a food component. Unless the commission decides ultimately to change their regulations, I think arguably that would have to be a food component on the beverage cart until that time. GMC is committed to that too. GMC has said that they would commit to food being a component of the beverage cart. Sure. I guess my question though is that food's a component at restaurants and it's served there, and yet I know of several people who are stopped from ordering a second beverage because they have to order food at a restaurant. I'm just curious how this would be managed by the beverage cart operator. That's a terrific question. I'm wondering, how does that work in terms of the current broad? I'm not sure if you'll know this.
▶ 1:45:37 How does that work in terms of the one-day licenses that we issue off park lands, like the bridge fundraisers, the symphony stuff? Do we strictly enforce that requirement and is it a requirement under that license? Yeah, so a 1 day license is a separate category. 1 day license is not a restaurant license. So the same food component. Would not apply to a 1 day license that would apply, for example, to the GMC license. So, so the, just so the members of the committee in the community know that the license that golf management operates under at Mount hood is a. section 12 license for consumption on premises so under our liquor regulations any licensee who has received a section 12 license does there is a certain as you said council there's a food
▶ 1:46:33 requirement or food component to that um and so as chair Gardiner just said i think that um gmc and you know i have no idea what the future holds but i think gmc if i understood incorrectly is committed to meet that whatever the food requirement of the liquor commission is that's imposed on GMC, it sounds like they would be committed to meet that requirement. They did say that and they won't have any choice. They don't have any choice is the important part. They're going to put the requirements on there. If councilor is correct and that is still the state requirement going forward after the lifting of the pandemic restrictions, they don't have any choice, they have to do it. That's the whole separate operational end of this that is,
▶ 1:47:16 we're far away from at this point in time, in my opinion. Thank you. I guess the change, even if this were to pass, this committee and the council would probably not take place this season? I don't know what the timing is, Councilor, as to we would hope that it would at least be addressed. We would hope to move it through if that's the case, but we still have to hold as a Park Commission a full public hearing and get the input and have my commissioners hear from everybody and understand the pros and cons of what's being proposed. Then you have the liquor license commission that has to as the experts on this particular area, they have to get it and they have to impose whatever restrictions may happen.
▶ 1:48:12 Leila Migliorelli: I just don't know if it could happen that quickly. I would hope one way or the other, I'd like to see it decided as soon as possible. But I think there's a lot more steps, I think as the Mayor said, and as Mr. Van Kampen said, that we're far from the finish line as far as this issue was concerned. We don't get there unless we get by this particular ordinance issue. Thank you. Just one last question. I think just to be responsive to the constituents and their concerns, Um, and this chief file stated that, you know, there are issues right now up at mount hood and around mountain hood with, you know, underage drinking residents were complaining about the speeding there. Is there anything that the city can do to help offset this or, you know, mitigate some of these problems? What are the steps needed? And is there anything that I don't know whether the management golf management company can can assist with?
▶ 1:49:09 or if it's something that the city can do to offer something to the residents as part of this. Since right now, the current environment sounds like it's not all that great up there. I'm just curious about that. If I can just weigh in on that one. The golf situation for the last year has been markedly better than it was in the past. There was a change in the actual onsite management. Mr. Doyle, he's running the show up there. He's much more stringent. He's much more active as far as enforcing the policies that are in place with respect to alcohol on the force. As the Chief says, it's not great, but it's, in my opinion, markedly better than it was two years ago. It's an ongoing process. It's a process that if you want to solve 100 percent zero alcohol,
▶ 1:50:08 I don't think that'll ever happen. But at the same time, the focus and the interest and the ability to enforce it, I think on golf management's part has been tremendous, at least in the last year, more so during the pandemic when there were more people up there. You just have to have the boots on the ground. I think the point for me overall on the beverage card is the fact that it gives more boots on the ground for people to look to see what's going on and i think you're going to find that more folks will be less apt to illegally bring alcohol in the cart if they know they can spend money um if they're going to have it available to them at that point in time they can get a sandwich they can get a beer so be it um it's just a feeling that i'm getting from
▶ 1:50:59 discussing it with the golf management folks over the years they've said that they've had good luck in all their other courses in New Hampshire, they see that they've had problems with that in the past. For them, it wasn't a public situation, it was more a revenue situation. These people are sneaking beers on the course when in fact, we should be making money on it and they're pros at it. I think it'll make a difference, to be honest with you. That's what I'm being told, that's what I'm seeing. I think we should give it a shot in my opinion. But if I may, um, there's certainly, this is not an issue that is, uh, limited to mount hood and I've had the opportunity to speak to chief file about it chief.
▶ 1:51:46 I don't want to share some of the recent conversations about. Enforcement interdiction, if you will. Across the city certainly counselor, you know, I had spoken to the mayor about this in the city attorney as well. The city is in the process now replacing the substance abuse coalition coordinator. Certainly want to work with her and start with educating. Students at in the middle school, we have 2 roles. I'm going to reach out to them and instruct, you know. The students and staff here about about alcohol consumption. And the safety measures that should be taken place as well as. I think we need to educate parents as well and as soon as we can start having community meetings, which we desperately needed, I think the first few are going to be related to alcohol and educate the parents about what's going on on weekends when
▶ 1:52:45 the kids are going out on a Friday or Saturday night and all we see is backpacks going up Mount Hood and we have no authority to stop them or search them unless there's a crime being committed. And the strongest action we could take is if they're trespassing after hours. and by that time it's too late already for that but i think the first step is to educate mom and dad or the guardians in the in the household about the kids and the safety measures that's my biggest fear up there it's not safe up there in some areas when they go into saugus there's a clip that actually goes right into the quarry and that's i've been up there many times with the golf management people and i know bill might want to elaborate on it too the fences are broken down
▶ 1:53:25 up there and it's a good couple hundred feet drop and that's my biggest fear over on that side and then the kids come in off of swain's pond and go into the woods there they built these elaborate forts in the middle of the woods the next time i go in i want to make sure i get pictures and send all you those photographs but i think the first first and foremost it's the parents educate the students in the schools and the police department will do their part with the golf course in a few weeks we'll be rolling out bicycles bicycle patrol which not only covers mount hood but all the parks and playgrounds as well as the bellevue golf course and downtown area i know last year it was limited because of covid having bicycles out on officers on a bicycle but that's our commitment
▶ 1:54:05 Maya Jamaleddine: and also the da's offices need be if it really requires that the diversion program the city's program or the da's program it helps you helps they help you so quickly regardless of what happens with this order obviously i hope it passes but regardless of what happens with this particular water this is going to be an issue that is going to continue to get the attention of the city thank you uh counselor jamaladeen thank you madam chair and thank you everyone for um helping us better understand this order that's coming before us um i could not ignore i'm a non-voting member however i could not ignore all these emails that we received from our residents. Listening to their concerns, I don't live around the golf course.
▶ 1:55:10 Maya Jamaleddine: However, I can only imagine how much this problem is an issue for them living there near the golf course before this order passes. From my understanding, Mr. Arndt mentioned that they do have an existing issue patrolling their customers coming to the golf course and having a drink. And so I'm trying to understand how having carts on the golf course would limit that. How would we, how are we going to identify. Drinks that are bought from the court from the cards. Or things that are brought. In addition to the cards, does that make any sense? It doesn't in council. That's a very good point. I had a conversation earlier today with Joan, Evan, the chairman liquor commission. And we were talking about that issue and chief Lyle and I earlier this morning, we're actually talking about that issue and.
▶ 1:56:25 1 of the things to consider is that under any liquor license, if there was an alcohol beverage cart on the golf course. The individual who would be driving that cart around the golf course and selling and serving alcohol from that cart. Would be tip certified, meaning that they would be trained. to understand and observe and to confirm whether an individual on the golf course was um inebriated and so the view is that if you have a tip certified uh employee traveling around the golf course um he or she would actually be able to control alcohol consumption just by virtue of their training and if a member who happened to be golfing that day was was heavily intoxicated then he or she would take appropriate action and that person would actually likely either no longer
▶ 1:57:22 Maya Jamaleddine: be served alcohol or would be removed from the golf course great that's great point um okay so scientifically speaking and based on a lot of research when we open when we have you know a drink around us that's an influence whether for adults or for teens for under age or um age um you know like uh regular um and permitted age if i'm gonna say so um so how are we going to consider how is that going to help our residents to limit the consumption consumption of the drink, if we are opening the drink and we make it more accessible during, you know, on the course. I mean, I would just offer that it would certainly be accessible on the golf course, perhaps, frankly, less accessible than it is today.
▶ 1:58:40 but it would arguably be much more controlled in terms of its accessibility so i don't know that that answers your question but um you know the view here is at least as to the golf course and i i don't want any of us to miss the point because i know the mayor will chime in here if i don't say it but this is much larger than mount hood golf course what's before you tonight this is you know that's one example of many in the community but as far as the beverage cart at the golf course once again certainly would be accessible because it would be for sale but it would be much more controlled and much more regulated than it currently is yeah i i'm mentioning um the golf course just to mention one of these uh parks but i would have the same concern on any
▶ 1:59:35 Maya Jamaleddine: other park as well it would be similar um it's just that um it's just because of you know we wanted to mention one of the parks that's why i'm i'm giving an example um i you know i understand that this will bring revenue to our city however i would like to focus uh on the safety of our residents and on the comforts of them and making them feel more safe in their home. So I would like to encourage our voting members to look more and take into consideration our residents' concerns and hopefully this would help leading us to a better decision. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Counselor. Kamala Dean counselor Stewart. Thank you, madam chair. Um, a lot of a lot of talk and questions have been already answered. I do want to go back to the commission and Mr solicitor and you mentioned that they do have the authority for suspension and or revocation.
▶ 2:00:55 Robb Stewart: Given a situation where they want to just how many times have they actually done that? Well, that's a good question. Um. I would have to look into that. I know there have counselor. I know there have been disciplinary proceedings. I'm thinking back. I've been here a long time and I'm thinking back to. All those years, there have been disciplinary proceedings, and I can get that for you. Council. I just don't have that off top my head tonight. Sure. Sure. That'd be interesting to understand what the situation was and what discipline they imposed. Thank you. And we talked, I think we talked at length about the. Counselor, can I interrupt you for one second and just also note that the Alcohol Beverage Control Commission also has its own enforcement authority, and I believe has exercised that authority in Melrose over the years as well.
▶ 2:02:02 Robb Stewart: So I'll try to get an answer for you. Right. I do appreciate that. And this question that I have is more fundamental to what we try to establish as a city. So, Mr. Mayor, maybe you can help me out with this. I know that we try to position Melrose as unique, as a family town, as a town that is quite unique from our, I think some of the other communities in our in our neighboring area and I think we've enjoyed the benefits of the values that we have. And honestly, and being here for 31 years. Now. A lot of that, I think, can be attributed to some of the. The tighter controls that we have that that make it a friendlier atmosphere, a family atmosphere. My concern here is alluding a little bit to.
▶ 2:03:11 Robb Stewart: Council and McMaster may have been suggesting is that. You know, when when does it end? You know, we introduced the next last year. We're starting to bring in more restaurants that have full liquor licenses. Now we're opening up parks. To me, it's watering down that family, that sense of community that is, I think, attributed to the fact that there were those tighter controls. So I'd like to get your perspective on where this is going. Sure, I appreciate the question because I think it's an important one. I've been here for 52 years and the town was completely dry and we have slowly evolve over time and I'm not saying that is the only reason, but that is certainly led to. You know, and I wouldn't want to go back, I guess, I'd say, you know, the, the turners and the Buckelews and the Beacon Hills.
▶ 2:04:18 Paul Brodeur: That weren't around when when you arrived when I arrived have really improved. The options that are available to both local residents and made for a more thriving. Business community, I mean, part of the goal here in some respects. Is to interest folks in coming to Melrose and increasing that foot traffic and doing. uh doing those kinds of things that again that we have done very carefully over time and i see that this as quite frankly as a as a progression in that direction we still have very very very firm controls and i think i have a a high degree of trust in the community overall and the folks on the park commission and the liquor commission that have the opportunity to regulate this on a very granular level to make it very community friendly
▶ 2:05:21 Paul Brodeur: um and again i don't i in some respects i think again i i mentioned it before i think of the um i think of the uh melrose symphony outdoor concert where kind of an interesting position for the city to be in because potentially the majority of the people who attended that Broke the law, there were people all over the place. Bringing in their coolers and illegally drinking. Um, I don't want to I don't want to. I don't think that's a good way to do businesses to. Tolerate certain activities, um. You know, with a wink and a not, because we kind of think they're okay. And have others, uh, be done and it's not a matter of trying to duplicate. other communities experiences um but we always look for success where we can find it and this
▶ 2:06:19 Paul Brodeur: is a little bit off the subject of you know the specifics regrettably greatly focused on mount hood in this particular situation um but you know creating a diversity of economic art of opportunities is important and i think the trends for us are very good on a you know germane to the um you know there are activities where um or spaces where kids are available and do we want to expose them to that um as a general proposition no but again quite frankly we do it in certain respects there is no um at our events at memorial hall where alcohol is available most of them are not age limited in any way so i'm not sure there is um i'm not sure how important the distinction is between a tightly regulated event outside versus the tightly regulated event
▶ 2:07:30 Robb Stewart: inside. I have a lot of, but most importantly, I have a lot of faith in the community to manage this appropriately. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I have one last question that you prompted me on. I think there certainly is a difference between an event and an ongoing opportunity on a daily basis. Would you agree that they are two separate and distinct situations that perhaps need to be debated as separate and distinct situations as opposed to lumping them together? Because when I hear talking about like a one-time, one-day event that has the one-day license, you know, there's, I think, reasonable arguments. When you have an ongoing situation where there's already a much broader situation and issue that needs to perhaps be explored and rectified, that is, I think, a very different area of discussion.
▶ 2:08:44 Paul Brodeur: It feels like we're blending the two together. Would you agree with me that it might make sense to segregate these into two distinct conversations? I think quite frankly, I think that is exactly what's happening tonight. I think that's what will happen before the licensing authority. Again, I am very, very comfortable with the controls and the regulatory authority and the responsibility of the folks that have been appointed to these boards, Subject to the approval of, you know, the, the city council to legislative branch. And, you know, again, we, I think we unfortunately have tried to focus a little bit too much on. So, the 1 about ism, where that is appropriate discussion for. Certainly the body, but also the, the regulatory.
▶ 2:09:47 Robb Stewart: Um, Mr. maybe I should clarify, I think that the 2 distinct areas that I'm talking about is a 1 time event, such as a symphony and an ongoing situation, such as Mount food where alcohol is available on and every day all hours of the day. No, I think I got it and the, um, it's not all hours of the day to be sure the city already has. Rules around that and of course, alcohol is available. At mount hood, you know, essentially, whenever mounted is open. Even, I believe don't hold me to this when when the course isn't open, it's a little bit of a. Head scratcher, I suppose, in certain respects that. They that the ordinance that prohibits the. The sale of possession of consumption of alcohol somehow doesn't cover.
▶ 2:10:45 Um, clubhouse, but, uh, you know, that is, um, I, I get, I, I certainly get your point. Uh, but again, not to not to. Keep repeating myself, but I do believe there are controls in place. That allow the licensing authority here, the flicker commission. To make intelligent decisions, recognizing that there are differences between the 2. Quite frankly, they already do that with restaurant licenses, with the existing license at Mount Hood, with some of our club licenses like RVFW, RLs, and those situations which have a little bit of a different operation than some other things that we do, but they all go under one regulatory regime. Fair enough. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Thank you, Madam Chair. Sure. Thank you, Councillor Stewart.
▶ 2:11:40 Cory Thomas: Councillor Thomas, followed by Councillor McNaught, and then if anyone else wants to be in queue, please raise your hand. Thank you very much, Madam Chairwoman. I'm a non-voting member of this. I have one question from Mr. Gardiner. It just touches on what Councillor Stewart and Mayor Broder were just talking about. And I apologize if this is already touched upon, but what will the days of operation of the beverage cart be if approved? It would have to be determined by the regulations imposed by the Liquor Commission. They could set them. There hasn't been any specific request from golf management company as to when they would operate them. I would think that that would fall within the purview of the liquor commission as to what they think is appropriate.
▶ 2:12:28 Cory Thomas: Did they mention what they run now in their clubs in New Hampshire? Is it a solely weekend thing? I've been to golf courses where on a Tuesday you wouldn't have a beverage top, but on a Saturday and Sunday you might. Yeah, they didn't mention that they have so Hagan woods and I didn't ask them that that's probably a pretty good question as to what they do and how that affects the revenues piece of what we've been talking about here tonight. But I don't know, to be honest with you. All right, no, that would be great if we can find out, but I'm sure it will throughout the process of the checks and balances to get these approved. And then just add 1 statement to make it's refreshing to see chief Lyle, our, our head law enforcement officer in the city in our mayor mayor broader talking about education and the substance abuse commission and how this relates.
▶ 2:13:16 Cory Thomas: To our youngest, our youngest golfers, our youngest members of the community. There are a number of junior operator, junior members of the Mount hood, including my son is a number of teenagers that take advantage of this golf course. every day. I think it's picked up even more. Golf was one of the first things that kids were allowed to do during the pandemic. So to hear Chief Lyle and Mayor Broder talk about educating our youth at the school level, hopefully at the middle school level, and throughout the high school. Mayor Broder, you know in the past that I've reached out to you and we've talked about expanding the role of the Substance Abuse Commission and really having a strong footprint
▶ 2:13:54 Cory Thomas: at Norris High School and hopefully into the middle school where education you know really needs to start. Norris Alliance Against Violence is a huge and a well-cultivated group at the high school level and I'd love to see the Substance Abuse Coalition have that kind of impact at our middle school and our high school. And I'd be happy to you know join anything with Chief Weil and Mayor Broder and help out bringing this to fruition moving ahead. Thank you all for being here tonight and thank you for all the residents that reached out uh so i really appreciate you appreciate your ongoing leadership and i know someone who's involved um with youth sports and there's also kids in the you know in the district program you know how um how much of that is is not
▶ 2:14:40 Paul Brodeur: just playing the game and that we certainly have rules against that against and essentially zero tolerance for alcohol drug substances substance abuse um but that the support and the coaches in particular are an integral part of delivering that delivering that message and that is you know that's touching kids in so many different ways is how we get that message across we very much appreciate your leadership absolutely and then the feeling is mutual so thank you chief eileen Mayor Broder. Thank you, Councilor Thomas. Councilor McNaught. Thank you, Madam Chair, and I'm also a non-voting member of this committee, so thank you for allowing me the chance to speak. I think I just wanted to provide a bit of a different perspective of what my thoughts are on this,
▶ 2:15:34 Jeff McNaught: and I would start off by saying I don't think $7,000 is going to make it rain in the City of of Melrose. I don't look at this as a moneymaker. I look at it as more of an amenity. As someone who had a junior membership that Councilor Thomas was just mentioning, when I was a child for 150 bucks a summer for all the rounds I could play, I just wanted a Gatorade. And if you've ever walked Mount Hood, you've pretty much got to be a billy goat to get around Mount Hood, especially as a kid when you can't rent a car. So I just want to really emphasize, it's not a beer cart. It's not an alcohol cart. It's not open all hours of the day. And I understand some people don't golf, don't know golf. I totally get that. I'm not trying to be a wise guy by saying any of
▶ 2:16:24 Jeff McNaught: this, but most of the time it's, you're looking for a pack of peanut butter crackers and a Gatorade or three Gatorades because it's so hot outside. You know, when beverage carts go out, they're not out every day of the week and especially in the northeast you're going to see them out on weekends and during tournaments mainly they're not going to be out all day long because they're big money losers in fact if you don't have a full course all day long there's no point in sending that thing out there now when you do have it out there and it's a busy busy day and you're playing golf you're going to be lucky to see that thing twice in a round and that's when you're going to load up on Gatorades and snacks and things like that and you're going to put it hopefully in a cooler
▶ 2:17:07 Jeff McNaught: that can be put on a cart because most courses have coolers on the carts. I don't think Mount Hood is there yet. But I say all this to say that it is more of an amenity. It's a convenience and it's something that we're very far behind on. I have to be honest. I've played all the courses that have been mentioned in emails by residents um they may not have beverage carts but they certainly sell alcohol and and they don't manage um the sale of it and the drinking on premises anywhere near as well as my hood does what happens on the course is a different ball game i agree with chief lyle i think a lot of work has to be done there but the reason i'm speaking is to say um if you put these beverage carts out there and if you put another ranger out there you will have
▶ 2:17:58 Jeff McNaught: eyes and ears on the course and you don't have that right now you just don't you can't expect someone cutting fairways or doing any type of maintenance work on the course to stop and radio the clubhouse and say someone's drinking a beer which they would be the right person to do that anyway what you want is the eyes and ears that are driving around the course and a ranger to be able to radio the clubhouse and say there's a guy on the fourth hole he's drunk it's not one of our beers can we send someone out here you kick him off the course and you take away his residential discount or you don't allow them back there's a million ways that we can go about making this really really responsible um and especially you know i played a lot of courses that sell
▶ 2:18:44 Jeff McNaught: different beers on the course as opposed to what's sold in the clubhouse the reason they do that is when you're out there they're going to know you know we're selling corona lights out here where'd you get the budweiser some you know something to that effect um just see i just have a couple more thoughts here um no matter what happens here tonight or in the council we do have to do something about the language in in the ordinance um it is unconstitutional and by way of example we did have a big prayer service i'm assuming there was a permit pulled for it on the soccer field at the knoll on easter sunday there's a lot of people there that were speakers it was very well done um so it just goes to the point of um why this ordinance that not just needs to be
▶ 2:19:33 Jeff McNaught: amended but i think fully stricken um but again that's for us to decide at a later meeting the last thing i would say is kind of to mayor broder's point or fully to meet mayor broder's point i have lived here my whole life and and a lot of a lot of us have or we've lived here for many years and we have seen responsible change in the way of alcohol um you know it wasn't alcohol wasn't sold in restaurants um most of our restaurants close at nine i think they all i think they all close at nine at least right now um you know we we sent a an incoming restaurant who proposes to be open later than that um to the council with a recommendation for passage just a couple hours ago tonight so i would submit to you that that will be
▶ 2:20:20 Jeff McNaught: just as well managed as a beverage cart or as an outdoor event for the symphony orchestra or for any other event in the city of melrose because we're just not going to stand for it to be anything other than that so i think putting beverage carts at mount hood and doing these other things is only going to help us be more responsible but let's not just focus on it as it's just a beverage got at mount hood that's not what tonight's about thank you madam chair thank you councillor mcnaught councillor Garipay thank you chair um i i kind of want to reiterate what uh councilman mcnaught said um you know i've lived in melrose a long time and i think in the 1980s the first restaurant we have with uh alcohol was the victorian until turn is opened in 1994 or so and and we as a community
▶ 2:21:15 Mark Garipay: Have have, I mean, it may seem like we're adding a lot of restaurants with in opening up alcohol. We are, but it has been a long, slow process and it's been done in a very well. Thought out thought out way, but we also got to look at the bigger picture. This isn't just about a beverage card at Mount Hood. You know, I think we, as we, as a council, we elect the commissioners. whether it's the liquor commission whether it's the park commission and there are many layers that need to happen in order for this to move forward and i i have the faith is everything that their track record on what they've been able to do both the park commission with the way everything looks and and in the liquor commission and the way they've been very thought thoughtful
▶ 2:22:05 Mark Garipay: and in which uh they've been able to move the process and opening up the lick the liquor um whether it's uh whether it's hard liquor at some of the liquor stores and gradually beer and wine it's been a slow process so i i am going to put my faith that the commissioners know what they know what to do there are many levels that this process needs to go through at first so that's uh i just wanted to say that and uh thank you all for your time tonight I also like Councilor McNaught and not a voting member. Thank you, Councilor Garipay. I just wanted to ask a few questions before we move to whatever is the will of the committee and make one comment, which is that to Mr. Gardiner, I believe under the recently passed Federal American Rescue Plan Act that we can replace lost revenue in city
▶ 2:22:56 Jen Grigoraitis: accounts. So I hope that that's something we would consider if to replace some of the revenue lost to mount hood given the what sounds like negative impact of that um but my my question to mayor broder and mr van campen is um when the advisory committee was meeting when you looked at other cities and towns um for those municipalities around us that have you know loosened up restrictions have they seen a reduction in teen drinking as a result of that increased regulation and i'll say that i'm someone who's generally very supportive of legalizing something and regulating it but i do think we have this inherent push-pull at mount hood which has been one of two identified possibilities um for how this ordinance would be implemented where we're
▶ 2:23:43 Jen Grigoraitis: as chief lyle said it's the wild west um so what were i just would be curious what were some of the takeaways from other municipalities counselor can you repeat that question because i only heard about 40 of that for some reason my speaker is cutting out on me uh did the advisory committee look at other municipalities that have relaxed ordinances around alcohol and have they seen a reduction in teen drinking or risky behavior as a result of that no the advisory committee didn't do that type of an analysis that was frankly not the sort of scope of what they were charged with doing so they didn't really go through the type of comprehensive analysis that I think you're asking about? I mean, has there been any review of other municipalities
▶ 2:24:36 Jen Grigoraitis: to see what's worked, what hasn't? As many people have mentioned, this is the beginning of one of many steps, but I'm assuming some thought has been put into the steps that come next. I know, for example, the city of Plymouth actually restricts one-day licenses to only be for nonprofit organizations as a way to focus on road races And not using public space to generate revenue. So I just was curious if there had been any. If we had looked at what other municipalities were doing and wanted to adopt any of that and if we're seeing. If there's anyone who was showing us how further regulation is reducing team drinking, but that seems to be a concern. Yeah. Apologies because I misunderstood your question and to answer that question. So we.
▶ 2:25:20 We are in the process, the advisory group did sort of a cursory look. But following some of the recommendations, the advisory group to look at overhauling our liquor regulations. Kelly call given in my office and Amy Lindquist, who's our assistant city solicitor who works out of the school department. Have actually been polling other communities, looking at their regulations, trying to figure out what works what doesn't work. You know, this issue of a 1 day license only to a non profit. Things of that nature, so there's certainly some work being done in that regard counselor. But for purposes of tonight's meeting, I really can't report conclusively that specific decisions have been made around that, particularly where those decisions belong to the liquor commission.
▶ 2:26:05 Jen Grigoraitis: Okay, and then my 2nd question is, I did want to think. Chief Lyle and Joan Bell of the parks department who I speak to regularly about the issues at Mount hood since that is in my. Ward and appreciate their constant thought and creativity around how to address those issues. And I know the chief spoke to some of them tonight. But some of those things require the commitment of resources from the city, whether it's additional, you know, authorizing overtime to have patrols, rangers, there's been talk about speed bumps. So, can we anticipate seeing some of those requests coming before the council as we talk about? I do believe part of as we talk about moving forward is to have an effective coalition where we're talking about quality of life,
▶ 2:26:52 Jen Grigoraitis: not just for the people who want to attend these events, but for the residents who are going to be impacted, such as those that live at the golf course. I'm sorry, I had to plug in my computer, so I missed the first half of your, I had to go get a power source. Can we anticipate any requests for funding to support some of the ideas Chief Lyle has presented around how to address some of the quality of life issues that we're seeing around Mount Hood and our parks and playgrounds? because i do believe they take resources in order to implement them and i think that the chief spoke to the ability already to stand up about some of those resources and i'm not i mean i understand very well the um the concern about youth drinking across the community and i'm happy to
▶ 2:27:51 Paul Brodeur: discuss with the council uh creative ways to to address that both with enforcement and education i am not sure with that there is um it'll be good to see what the if if the experience shows whether or not there's any connection between team drinking and the and the possible beverage cart at that mount hood i think that that is a i think that is a problem that i suspect um flies somewhat independently because we know two things we know that it is a problem and we know that it is that there's not never been a beverage cart at mount hood and that drinking in the woods across the city has been an issue for for 50 years in some way shape or form Again, not to be flip, but regardless of what the resolution of this order is,
▶ 2:28:52 Jen Grigoraitis: that is something we need to continue to discuss and work on. Thank you. Just two more questions, and this one might be for Mr. Gardiner. Is there currently a beverage cart in operation at Mount Hood that sells? I'm assuming that can legally operate as long as it's not selling alcohol, so Gatorade, sandwiches, some of the other things that were referenced. Right. There's not one on a full-time basis now, and I think Councilor Thomas asked me about the hours earlier. It's not a full-time basis. They've tried it out with obviously non-alcohol products for the leagues. They have a multitude of leagues in the middle of the week, and some of the very, very hot days they've done it, and it's been popular with the folks.
▶ 2:29:39 I think Councillor McNaught mentioned that he's golfed at other courses and people expected that type of thing. I think they've done it, but it's been on a very, very limited basis. We thought last year, if it was last year or the year before, I can't remember, I apologize, about coming before the council and asking, can we do this on a trial basis? I think the proposal was to do it with the police golf tournament. At least we would think we would have people who would at least report back to us whether it worked or didn't work. I'm sure it would have worked out best if we did it with Chief Lyle's group, but we just never got that far. Everything went haywire last year. But to answer it, I think it's on a very limited basis at this point in time and it's been popular for sure.
▶ 2:30:31 I think, and I was getting texts from Joan after the question was asked by Councillor Thomas that GMC has said in the past, her memory is much better than mine is, particularly as the hours go on. I think she said that GMC would try to limit it to the high times for them. The leagues, the groups that they have there, the folks that they can cater to and get some certainty to them, and then maybe on the very, very hot days. Again, that's all fluid. That's more operational than conceptual at this point, I think. Thank you. Just one last question. As we're talking about this ordinance as it relates to Mount Hood, my understanding from, I don't golf, but I have been to Mount Hood, is that we have an outdoor patio.
▶ 2:31:23 How does that currently, and I know people are allowed to have drinks on the outdoor patio, so how does that work with this existing issue that we have? There's no real tie-in to it except for the fact that it would just be, I think somebody referenced it earlier, it would be another expansion of the existing permit that golf management, liquor permit that golf management has for the clubhouse. It would be an add-on the way I understand it to their existing permit, and the conditions that exist currently for the outdoor patio, for the inside, for the function room, would remain as the standalone conditions, and they would have to have a separate set of conditions for the beverage cart if it had ever got approved.
▶ 2:32:14 Again, it's a long way away. But this ordinance doesn't prevent us from having alcohol outside at Mount Hood on the patio. I guess that's what I'm trying to- No, it does not. I'm sorry. The structure itself, The way I understand it is not considered open space so that it's, it's regulated and permitted differently. Okay. Mr. is that the. Correct. Yeah, correct. Because the patio space is part of the. The structure, if you will, and I assume at some point in the, in the not too distant past. When the outdoor patio was added, there was an application to alter the premise to add that outdoor patio. Space to include it in the license dairy. Thank you. Are there any more questions for our guests?
▶ 2:33:07 Jen Grigoraitis: Seeing on, thank you all for being here tonight and for your patients as we gaveled in and gaveled out and for all of our questions. And at this time, I will entertain whatever is the will of the committee. Motion to refer to the. Full board without recommendation. We have a motion to refer to the full board without recommendation made by a counselor. Seconded by counselor McMaster. Is there any discussion by the commit by the voting members? Okay, seeing none, Madam clerk, can you please call the roll? Chair Grigoraitis? Yes. Vice Chair Migliorelli? Yes. Yes. Council of Tram and Tosi? Yes. Councillor McMaster? Yes. Councillor Eccles? Yes. And President Sinella? Yes. Six yes. Six yes, the order carries. So this order will be referred to the
▶ 2:34:24 full committee without recommendation. So thank you and at this time I'll entertain a motion to adjourn. Motion to adjourn. Second. So we have a motion to adjourned, made by Councillor Migliorelli, seconded by Councillor Tramontozzi. Madam Clerk, can you please call the roll? Chair Grigoraitis? Yes. Vice-Chair Migliorelli? Yes. Councillor Tramontozzi? Yes. Councillor McMaster? Yes. Councillor Eccles? Yes. President Sinella? Yes. Six yes. Six yes, we are adjourned. Thank you all and I will turn it over to Chairman McLaughlin. Thank you, Councillor Rigoritis, Madam Clerk, when you are ready, we will resume with the Appropriations Committee. Just to remind everyone, public comment is now open. So we will be looking to the audience