Appropriations & Oversight Committee — 2017-02-13
Attendance
Robert A. Boisselle ; Donald L. Conn Jr. ; Scott M. Forbes ; Gail Infurna ; Jennifer L. Lemmerman ; Mary Beth McAteer-Margolis ; Monica C. Medeiros ; Peter D. Mortimer ; John N. Tramontozzi ; Francis X. Wright Jr. ; Michael P. Zwirko
Agenda
Minutes
CITY OF MELROSE APPROPRIATIONS COMMITTEE CALENDAR● FEBRUARY 13, 2017 Aldermanic Chamber, Melrose City Hall Rescheduled Meeting 7:45 PM 562 Main Street, Melrose, MA 02176 The public should take notice that the Melrose Board of Aldermen may, on certain occasions, have a quorum in attendance due to standing committees of the Board of Aldermen consisting of both voting and non-voting members. Members attending this duly posted meeting are participating and deliberating only in conjunction with the business of the standing committee. Attendee Name Title Status Arrived Peter D. Mortimer Chairman Present Gail M. Infurna Vice Chairman Present Michael P. Zwirko Alderman at Large Present John N. Tramontozzi Ward 1 Alderman Present Monica C. Medeiros Alderman at Large Absent Robert A. Boisselle Ward 4 Alderman Present Francis X. Wright Jr. Ward 3 Alderman Present Mary Beth McAteer-Margolis Alderman at Large Present Jennifer L. Lemmerman Ward 2 Alderman Present Scott M. Forbes Ward 7 Alderman Absent Donald L. Conn Jr. President/Ex-officio Member Present
ORDER-2017-90 Bond Authorization of a Bond in the amount of $5,950,000.00 to pay for costs of fabricating and installing modular classrooms at Hoover and Winthrop Schools and for renovations at the Horace Mann Elementary School Recommend Passage Board of Aldermen City of Melrose Page 1 Updated 2/14/2017 11:50 AM
Transcript
▶ 20:15 Peter D. Mortimer: This is the Melrose Board of Aldermen Committee on Appropriations. It is a committee of the whole, which means that every member of the Board of Aldermen is a member of this committee. I am the chairman, Peter Mortimer. We are joined by the vice chairman, Alderman Gail Inferna. Also, Alderman Michael Zwirko, Alderman John Tramontozzi, Alderman Robert Boisselle, Alderman Francis Wright, Alderman Mary Beth McAteer-Margolis, Alderman Jennifer Lemmerman, and President Kahn. Would someone open the floor with a motion? Motion moved. Thank you. Alderman McAteer-Margolis makes a motion to open the floor for public participation. Duly seconded by Alderman Lemmerman. All in favor, please say aye. Aye. Any opposed?
▶ 21:04 Peter D. Mortimer: Hearing none, we're open for public participation. Are there any members of the public in attendance who would like to come forward and make comments or ask questions about any order on the agenda tonight? Seeing none, Alderman Zwirko makes a motion to close public participation. Duly seconded by Alderman Inferno. All in favor, please say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Hearing none, public participation is closed. This meeting is being recorded by MMTV and broadcast simultaneously. It is available for future viewing on the MMTV website and on the Melrose, Massachusetts website. The first order before us is order 2017-90. It is the authorization of a bond in the amount of $5,950,000 to pay for costs of fabricating and installing
▶ 21:52 Peter D. Mortimer: modular classrooms at the hoover and the winthrop schools and for renovations at the horace mann elementary school alderman alderman lemmerman has made a motion to suspend the rules duly seconded by alderman Boisselle all in favor please say aye aye any opposed hearing none we are under suspension his honor mayor dolan is here along with other city officials to give us the information required for our deliberations on this bond good evening lady and gentlemen good evening thank you uh pardon my cold uh just for for the public we will have dpw crews out tonight opening up corners opening up some downtown um tomorrow morning if there are any issues coming back to school uh people can call 665-0142 and crews will be out all day tomorrow removing
▶ 22:48 snow in the parking lot so i thought the dbw did an excellent job mr schenner and his staff it was a tough weekend and the guys in the women of the office worked very very hard so i want to thank them publicly dear members of the board of alderman tonight you will take a critically important vote to address space needs and educational equity for the most public schools now and for the next several decades. To recap, over the last several years the Morris Public Schools has been making necessary adjustments to space and operations to meet the needs of escalating class sizes in the earlier grades. You are all very aware of that. This also included the funding of a demographic study by this Board of Aldermen and a space and needs
▶ 23:29 assessment. After much deliberation, the superintendent presented several public options for consideration at a meeting at the Lincoln School last fall you all took part in that meeting have been following it very closely over the past several months it was decided by the school committee unanimously and also supported by the morris permanent school building committee unanimously and was the overwhelming choice of the public that the best solution would be the modular option accompanied by the renovation of the of the Horace Mann elementary school as you are aware each of you in the Board of Aldermen debated the issue and the options presented publicly and at length and voted unanimously to fund
▶ 24:10 full architectural designs of the modulars as well as the Horace Mann renovations. We then held, per recommendation of this board, many individual meetings at the Hoover, Winthrop and the Horace Mann schools for parents and neighbors to discuss those plans and during those meetings we collected their input. We made several changes as a result of that input. stage of the project has been completed and bids for the modular portion of the project have been received at the meeting to fund the architectural designs we spoke to the uncertainty in the modular market as this has become an option that has been aggressively pursued by many communities in our region as well as throughout the country because of the limited number of
▶ 24:53 companies in this line of work as well as the lack of historic pricing we were concerned about cost I spoke publicly about this challenge and it was a concern of the school committee as well as we discussed the bids which should also be noted that the site work at the Winthrop school needed to be adjusted to improve drainage and sewer and drainage upgrades needed to be added at the Hoover school as well both investments will correct infrastructure issues that were causing problems on the respective campuses and allow for the best placement of the modular units as a result the modular bids have come in higher than we wanted however after careful review we have found that the bids to be fair and very competitive involving two of the most respected
▶ 25:41 companies in the field the Horace man portion of the project which is a more traditional construction project that will be written that has been replicated many times in the city of Melrose will go out to bid in March the projected cost is included in this order we feel very confident in the cost estimate for the Horace Mann school as the price points for each part of the Horace Mann project can be easily researched and estimated in conclusion I ask for your support of this order for the following reasons one the modular portion of this project must be completed before September 1st since there is not enough space in the Morris public schools today to meet the needs of next year's incoming elementary classes the board this board and the school committee
▶ 26:30 carefully reviewed every option and it was evident that the module option was the best and most effective cost-effective option it remains the best and most cost-effective option secondly interest rates are clearly on the rise and we are still able to capture the best interest rates for these projects before any significant changes occur three construction costs are on the rise and will continue to rise so we are capturing the best available prices for these projects now for the team assembled today is the same team that has brought in every single school project that this city has done for the past 13 years each of these projects have been incredible of incredible quality on budget and on time the experience and the track record of
▶ 27:19 success are there five four five point nine five million dollars a significant sum we are able to provide enough space for the foreseeable future for the Morris public schools build permanent structures that will last for a half a century improve the sites of these school buildings including needed infrastructure and make the necessary renovations to the Horace main elementary school to provide equitable educational services improved handicapped accessibility and security on par with the other neighborhood schools the price tag of doing this work through structural additions would be in the tens of millions of dollars and six by funding this option and completing this construction project it will allow us to within the foreseeable generations
▶ 28:10 maintain our neighborhood school concept a true middle school in a traditional 9 through 12 high school without shoehorning students that might simply not be ready socially emotionally or educationally to jump from fourth grade to the Melrose middle school or from seventh grade to Melrose high school I am unequivocally opposed to that move those moves a project of this scope although necessary comes with financial realities that have to be dealt with by all of us our commitment tonight limits significant borrowing over the next few years but I feel as does our chief financial officer that the city of Melrose is in a position to make this investment and in fact must make this investment I ask for your approval and all parties involved are here to
▶ 29:07 Denise Gaffey: answer any of your questions thank you thank you mayor Dolan Ms. Gaffey or Mr. De La Russo, do you have any commentary to make before we proceed with the colloquy? Not really. I will just mention that I attached to the order several items for you to review in advance of tonight's meeting, including the community presentations that we had at the Winthrop School, the Hoover School, and the Horseman School back in December. so those plans were very similar to the plans that the Alderman saw back in October when we asked for the funding following the feasibility study but they were more advanced so I did want to mention that those plans were part of your package and of course the architect is here if you have any specific
▶ 29:48 questions I also included the budget for the project with a breakdown of all the of those major line items and Thorp an amortization schedule attached to the Thank you, Ms. Caffey. Mr. De La Russo. Thank you, good evening. Good evening, sir. Just a few points that I think are important for this evening's conversation. First and foremost, full funding can be accomplished under the 5% debt limit threshold for the general fund. We've talked about this in the past. The model has not changed. We adhere to the exact same model we have for years. We're gonna continue to do that. The debt portfolio right now represents, should this be approved, 3.87 is the current percentage of debt to general fund.
▶ 30:45 In 2018, it goes to 3.79, then 4.14, 4.20. Then it drops to 3.91, 3.4, drops rapidly. 3.19 and then we're down to 2.40 within the 10-year window, which corresponds to the overall debt position of the city. The city is scheduled to pay down 77.8% of its debt within 10 years, which is very aggressive. It's quite an accomplishment. So what we're seeing, again, the model's working the way we've always hoped it would, So that as new projects came about, and we stayed within our guidelines and our limit, and we watched the long term window, we're seeing that close to 80% be paid off in ten years. That's quite remarkable. And I think it really feels well for this community, not only short term but long term.
▶ 31:44 Because no matter what administration is in place, you're always providing that opportunity for capital investment. And I know the rating agencies really look favorably upon that, so I'm very pleased to report that. And again, we're using the same interest rates historically we have, which have always come in less. 5% for permanent debt, 3% for temporary. I think we've demonstrated that we have fared better in both when we actually go to bond. So, again, we're using assumptions that are conservative, and still we meet the threshold of the 5% quite handily, but short and long term. So I'm pleased with that, thank you. Thank you very much. First in queue for commentary, we don't necessarily need to have a motion when we have committee meetings.
▶ 32:39 We have used the past practice of being informal, of allowing discussion before motions. And in that vein, we will first hear from President Kahn. Yeah, Mr. De La Russo, the term of this bonding is going to be 20 years? That is correct, sir. It'll be a short term borrowing for a year, and then the balance will be a long term bond? Through the Chair, the schedule now, we're looking at two years of temporary, and the 18 years remaining for permanent debt again working with the treasurer's office um that's the expectation today should it change it would be because we find it more advantageous to to adjust it okay 20 years is 20 years and my understanding based on what you said is if the board votes to uh to bond for this uh project then uh you may not be seeking to bond
▶ 33:35 for other things that you might have gone forward with is that true that's exactly correct um this takes obviously is it's a priority and it does on the other end as the mayor indicated earlier it would minimize our ability to go for additional debt even though we have full capacity to do that but we would not look to do that at all we would peer down any other borrowing period some something that i think is necessary okay thank you and ms gaffey can you just briefly for people who may not be looking at all the material that we have online or might have not have seen the extensive discussion that we had a couple of months ago when we were voting relative to advancing the funds to do the design
▶ 34:16 Denise Gaffey: on this project can you just public certification indicate what we're going to be doing at the schools other than the Horace man other than the horse me so so the the Winthrop school and the Hoover school we are going to be building modular classrooms so in the Winthrop it's a it's an addition that is attached to the building with two classrooms and in the Hoover School it'll be an addition that has three three classrooms attached to it and yeah in addition to that Thorp quite a bit of site work that goes along with this we are we are replacing a drainage line underneath the Winthrop school and a drainage and sewer line at the Hoover School and do and we're also we're going to rebuild the community garden at the Hoover School because that is going to
▶ 35:04 Denise Gaffey: be displaced as part of this so we will shift that over and rebuild the community garden and we also we improve the circulation at the Hoover School and we create a new play structure at the Winthrop and a lot more green space which is a has historically been a complaint at the Winthrop school Thorp an awful lot of pavement in the play area and we're able to introduce some some more green space back there and what's the timing in terms of when we expect these units to be delivered so we expect them to get delivered on the day after school is out so right now we're planning for about June 21st I believe but they are going to be you know if all goes well and we get the funding or able award the contract by the end of this month and they can send the order out
▶ 35:56 Denise Gaffey: and have it fabricated it'll take a couple of months to have the units fabricated and then they get trucked in and the in the meantime they're working on the site they're doing all the foundation work and the utility work and then in June they mid June after school gets out of session they arrive on site and start putting everything together so that this day will be complete by mid august and is the same vendor or subs to the vendor doing the site work yes yes and mayor um my my understanding is that the student population increase that we had is something that you don't believe is is something that's a short-term uh phenomenon here i do not in fact speaking with um the uh administration at the ecc
▶ 36:45 already they're going through kindergarten sign-ups right now and new sign-ups at the ECC, and the numbers continuously continue to hold at that 300 plus per class coming down from three-year-olds all the way to third grade right now. In the event that somebody in the community wanted to look at a comparable modular classroom unit, are there structures in the area that somebody could go to take a look at? yep we know that in Belmont they've had new modulars Arlington Reading and over North Andover because I think you know old-school people think that you know a modular unit is a modified trailer or something so I think it might be good if people could see these become really desirable classrooms and they're
▶ 37:36 Denise Gaffey: they're attractive looking the architect is I think has done a really fine job job and there is a there is a an elevation in in the packet there of what the buildings will look like at each site and they look different because they're trying to complement the buildings which are both very there are different looking and they will look what they will look nice they will complement the existing school buildings and they'll look nice in the neighborhood and then the interior space is really quite nice Thorp a lot of windows has all the shelving and all the technology furnishings they've become very nice and desirable classrooms. That's all I have for now, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, President Kahn.
▶ 38:15 Robert A. Boisselle: Alderman Boisselle, please. The cost, the estimated cost is $5.9 million, and the interest in this bond will be just about $3.2 million for a total of, for the total for this project of the bond over 20 years would be approximately just about $9.2 million total. Okay. Now, the scheduling, that seems, I mean, the bidding is going to take place in March, you said? So the bidding for the modules has already occurred. Okay. That number is a real number, the $3.159 million that's in here on the budget. Okay. And then the bidding for the horseman, because it's a different type of bid project, a different type of construction, that's going to occur in March. Okay. And the way you're discussing it, the schedule is very tight in basically July and August is their time period.
▶ 39:11 Denise Gaffey: Are they going to do the infrastructure during this time period, too? So for the modular classrooms, all of that foundation work is going to begin in April. It'll begin in the spring. So they'll have plenty of time over the spring, the three months in the spring, to complete. Okay. Is that going to interfere with the school activities in any way? or that was my next question it would be disingenuous to say there isn't going to be increased noise the disruption you know similar that's going to try to be mitigated as much as possible it's the only way we'll be able to complete this project no different than building a giant middle school next to an active high school you know that's looking at your plans for the winter up I mean
▶ 40:08 Robert A. Boisselle: Thorp it changed yes because you had the units in the front we did and now they're as far as away from the street as you can get are you running the infrastructure and water lines from the street to that far out or to the end of building i mean that's quite a i'll ask john to comment on that since he's the expert this is our uh director of public works john shanna for people in the audience good evening mr shanna welcome thank you the uh the the selected site that's presented in the drawings at the winthrop actually puts the connection closer to the sewer which enters the existing building in that rear corner oh okay however it puts it over an existing drain line which we have to replace that's what you were discussing in the beginning and and and that's a that's a
▶ 41:02 Robert A. Boisselle: task that these buildings will be there for 25 30 years that's their life and we want to upgrade the infrastructure under that foundation before we put the units on it so that's Thorp a plus and a minus in that in that regard so the infrastructure development is a little more tricky on this site than other sites yeah now this is the kindergarten which is at the furthest point in this play area is is there going how are the children going to get from that point they're going to be dropped off at the street or is there some sort of turnaround within the playground itself or are they going through the main entrance and going down the stairs to the building they'll come in the way they do now okay so they're all coming in from the street level yes and going
▶ 41:49 Robert A. Boisselle: straight to the end and coming down okay now in the schedule is there going to be a penalty clause for the contractor if they don't meet that what you're saying september 1st deadline yes we have liquidated damages and is that a certain percentage or per day or it's a daily a daily charge daily rate that's a fee that's charged them daily if they don't meet the target date is that three figures four figures it's a thousand dollars that's what we typically use it's that's a pretty strong incentive especially if they extend it out and so forth uh have the soil tests been been done for these sites already so there Thorp no problems or that you're expecting all the geotechnical analysis okay very good are you going to have this up on the is on the website
▶ 42:38 Jennifer L. Lemmerman: we'll have everything yeah we can definitely create or put it up on the website i mean it is just good to have the public open to see what it look what it's going to look like and so forth give them an idea of what the classrooms look like it's very nice design all right thank you very much Thank You mr. chairman you're welcome alderman boy self Thank You sir next in queue we have alderman lemon and please Thank You mr. chairman thank you all for being here to present this and having all this backup information I just have one quick question that I just wanted to confirm for any members of the public watching the Horace Mann renovation you spoke about the timing on the modular classrooms and that that bit has come
▶ 43:15 Denise Gaffey: back with Horace Mann being bid in March the plan is still to have this done for the next school year it is yes we anticipate opening bids in April and making an award right away in that instance we will hopefully have the funding in hand after you know this process so we'll be able to make an award right away and they can get moving and mobilizing in order anything that might have a long lead item but it will be they won't be able to get into the building until school is out of session so it is a short a fairly short construction time frame but great okay thank you very much and we've had a lot of discussions here about the the process and the designs and I've been fortunate to be able to be on the school building committee during the course of
▶ 44:03 Jennifer L. Lemmerman: this and I know that you know Thorp been lots of public input we had a great community meeting you know I know that there was a lot of due diligence done around the the bids and the the pricing and the best options for these schools so I just want to say thank you again to the members of that committee and I look forward to supporting this thank you Thank You mr. chairman Thank You all the lemon next in line is alderman's work oh please Thank You mr. chairman just have a few questions appreciate all the work that the committee's done on this it's amazing in less than a year where we've come so I know that it was worked on both publicly and privately in excess so I appreciate all the work sincerely
▶ 44:49 Denise Gaffey: mean that I say you had mentioned one thing at the beginning that there were some changes that were made from the community meetings that you had and I was just curious if you could just outline what some of those changes were maybe you already touched upon them but I just didn't yeah one was the Winthrop which Alderman Boisselle pointed out we were originally looking at having the modulars in the in the front right and there were some there was some legitimate reasons for that based on programming inside of the building but to be honest we never really loved having it in the front of the building because it's right in front of you know a nice kind of architectural feature on the building and it's right in the front and it's the green space and it's their
▶ 45:23 Denise Gaffey: only green space so um you know so it was brought to our attention it'd be really great if we could look at that more closely which is what we did and we and we you know results we we changed the location and think this is actually even has a lot more advantages to it so that was one change another big change is the horror span and that once we had initial designs we brought them before the staff and they made some very unique changes as it pertains to the people that are going to be using that space with dr cobb and and then we had a very active neighborhood meeting that you know spoke to the priorities within that building which were the fact that it's the only school without an art room it's the only school without a conference room so when you have a child
▶ 46:13 with be it with special needs or a discipline issue or an educational issue Thorp no place to meet and music and library are obviously in the same place and and where should not only uh what classroom uh was going to be used because that was debated but how could they best use space it was a good exercise within the horace mint school both in terms of the staff the administration and parents to try to come up with a model using tape's initial design as a starting point to a point where i think everyone was very satisfied with the process yeah yeah we we um you know originally there was a little concern about the placement of the library where the where a long-standing kindergarten classroom had been,
▶ 46:58 Denise Gaffey: but once the kindergarten, once we talked about having the kindergarten classrooms next to each other so that they could share, you know, just walk through a doorway and share, you know, share their resources. Get their own bathroom. And we also put bathrooms in those shared spaces, which, you know, they made the argument that the younger kids really need to have their own space. And so that was a really great comment, and we were able to come up with a design for that. great any changes at the hooper at the hooper um not really i mean we always talked about um the community garden and and you know you know finding a space for that i think we we had a couple of different ideas in mind um initially but we came up with a good location
▶ 47:44 Michael P. Zwirko: for it but nothing radically changed there right thank you for that update i um i also know that when we talked about this in november there you know we were kind of at the mercy of the um as you had mentioned the modular market i was just curious did that materialize at all and if so you know what what in generally i mean we were looking around 250 a square foot at the time this was a very early study i understand all that it differed again when we came here before us in october but i was just you know in the modular market i know that Thorp a demand for them so it's just simple you know supply and demand economics but you know you said that we had captured our bid at about 3.1 Can you explain those costs?
▶ 48:22 Denise Gaffey: So the square footage that you referenced, the $250,000 was not far off for the buildings itself. The costs that were a little bit higher were related to the site work, and that was really some scope adjustments that we made that we realized once we took a closer look at the sites and what kind of utility improvements were required kind of increased the price a little bit. That said, we did only get—there really are only two major players in the market, And so I think, you know, Thorp not a tremendous amount of competition. On the other hand, the prices that we got were very close to one another. They were within, I mean, the— Less than $100,000. Less than $100,000 between the two numbers.
▶ 49:03 Michael P. Zwirko: So we felt really good that we were getting a real market price. That's what it cost. So, when we spoke in October, and I don't want to, you know, pin it down, but the number got floated for about 4.4 that we assumed that the costs would be. Obviously that, you know, we had a schedule on the bond schedule at the time, and it came in about six and change over the whole maturity of the bond. It's now a $1.5 million change, and I'm just wondering where that $1.5 million is coming from if it's the site work if it's improvements the changes that we've made to the plan is you know what exactly is and again i i understand that we didn't have the numbers and and we were authorizing you know that's right yeah work to be done yeah we were reluctant to commit to any
▶ 49:54 numbers at that time one is a site work we added significant site work that john can speak to and obviously the increase in the modular price is around 200 000 dollars and the idea would be whether or not we were willing to decrease other aspects of this project significantly i.e some of the site work into the horror span project in speaking uh the building committee met and we felt that the site work was critically important since we have been very consistent and when we make significant changes to structure that we have the suitable infrastructure beneath it to deal with that structure and to not only deal with it but to improve upon it and as I said in my presentation the idea of an opportunity to to renovate to create the educational equity throughout the
▶ 50:51 district the security at the Horace Mann School which is currently limited as well as the handicap accessibility you know in a market that is not going to improve the cheapest amount of them this is the cheapest that these project will ever be and we talked about the idea of seven years ago we all took a dive into a new middle school that was around 52 million dollars the Galvin middle school in Wakefield was 80 million that's seven years so we have a we have an opportunity of a solid team manageable interest rates ability prices that are creeping up on us and we're gonna have to deal with this as it pertains to the other projects we're talking about be a Public Safety Library Memorial Hall
▶ 51:35 Michael P. Zwirko: right now is the time to deal with the the additional work that we think needs to be done to do this right and to do it once for the next X amount of decades thank you for that and I do want to say too that all the work that occurred and even feedback from the public this option is the most least is the least disruptive option so I think that's something that we need to consider as well and just mention publicly of course I mean that's of the all the plans that were floated this one certainly does the least amount of disruption to either the the grades that would be impacted the neighborhoods and etc so it's you know and I appreciate the work that's done there so I do want to acknowledge that I
▶ 52:17 Michael P. Zwirko: have other couple of questions I think for mr. de la Rousseau when you spoke before us in October you had stated that there was only one year in which we would be over 4% and if I heard you correctly it appears now that there will be two years of which from our debt capacity will go over 4% is that is that right did I hear 18 and 19 would be over 4 yeah through the chair I'm looking at 2019 at 4.1 4% 2020 at 4.2 percent then it drops to 3.91 and thereafter okay the reason I asked that question I was curious when does the middle school come off the rolls. Is that 27? I think it's 11 and a half, 12 years. Perhaps I have to double check that. Okay. No need. I was just curious because I know that you had said that in about
▶ 53:10 Michael P. Zwirko: 10 years we're going to drop. So I figured that might be a large portion of why our debt is dropping off of our rolls. No, that debt is actually not included in there because of debt exclusion. Yeah, that's a separate, that's a debt exclusion. Oh, that is. Yeah. so the tax that's the average tax bill would drop at that time I see that it's not actually on our no it's actually other projects that have come off the rolls are going to drop it okay okay thank you for that clarification in the last the last question I had in order to hit the target for opening these modulars up when school the school year begins for 20 this year yeah yeah this later this year will there be weekend work that will occur is that up to the
▶ 53:51 Mary Beth McAteer-Margolis: contractor how will that work I mean I would imagine that in order to hit that target they probably have to do some work over the week those are all the questions that I had I appreciate your time mr. chairman and time the panel thank you Thank You alderman's work Oh alderman MacMaster my goal is please oh thank you mr. chairman thank you all for your hard work this is um this is exciting having been a member at the beginning of the school building when we were kind of hoping to have a plan to do all the schools I really feel like we're finally getting around to doing all the schools and and I appreciate all your hard work from all of you and in getting us to this point so going back to the beginning are we and maybe this is for mr. de la Rousseau the Lincoln School is
▶ 54:47 Mary Beth McAteer-Margolis: is done we're done paying for the Lincoln and the Roosevelt or do we still have a small amount of that on our debt the Lincoln's got to be close to 20 years right right so that those are gonna in the Roosevelt's about two years after that so those will be coming off I'm assuming too right both of those and I'm I'm glad that my fellow alderman's work I mentioned the weekend work I was wondering particularly with like the Heseltine Park and like user activities if I'm sure you're going to be working hand-in-hand with the Recreation Department yes we will and we would have it we would have the public spaces cordoned off from the construction area so there might be limit most of that work at the Horace Mann is going to be interior work I mean they will be
▶ 55:45 Mary Beth McAteer-Margolis: putting the ramps in conjunction with that is I look like it was going to be a nice area for like a bike rack out front and that was bringing me to my second question thinking about the buildings being greener and our other modules do they have any certified or anything there well I was thinking about landscaping landscaping buffers the additions kind of soften them especially at the winter school right and rejoin the playground area we're doing the playground area but we're also have we also have plantings you know front of building itself in addition to kind of soften it right so so in terms of the actual buildings the the modules themselves are they energy efficient do they have all the whatever they insulation and things that they need to
▶ 56:52 Mary Beth McAteer-Margolis: bring them to up to the standards that we would like them to be yeah yes they are I mean they will be built according to the code right is a pretty high standard I mean they're not they're not gonna be LEED certified right right but they they are gonna meet the new stretch code requirements or whatever it is that we've instituted to have them qualify as green will they have air conditioning in the buildings and they will yeah great well thank you I think it looks great I'm really excited just particularly for the Horseman having been a graduate of there and my kids it's great to see that we're gonna finally get some dedicated spaces for art and music and maintain the library and also make the building handicapped accessible so thank you I
▶ 57:49 look forward to supporting this Thank You mr. chairman Thank You Wildman MacMaster Margolis president Kahn please yeah I'm gonna support this order tonight as i supported the um funding for the uh for the speccing out and design of the project but um i just want to be i'm a little bit concerned i want to make sure that Thorp no confusion here because i think if you're watching this discussion there may be confusion the four percent going up to 4.2 percent is uh and this isn't a term of art uh and finance i tend to come up with my own terminology but i call this general fund debt and that is certain obligations that we pay out of the general fund every year the overall obligations of the city are more than four percent of the general fund in any given year
▶ 58:48 for example the middle school has nothing to do with that figure the middle school debt was a debt exclusion so that figures not at all into that calculation things like mwra debt have funds that we borrow from the mwra or funds that we borrow and fund through the water and sewer enterprise system ambulance have nothing to do with general fund debt the money that we bonded through cooperation with the park department to do the field projects have nothing to do with this so I just want to make sure that if anybody's watching at home that general fund debt is less than is less than 5% of the operating budget at any given year but Thorp a panoply of other debt that's out there that has nothing to do with this and if that would be added in the percentage
▶ 59:45 would be a great deal higher than 5%. Thank you, President Kahn. Yeah, that's true. Mayor Dolan. President Kahn is correct. The difference between the two debts is that, as Alderman Kahn said, this is the operation debt. Those debts outside that have a dedicated funding source outside the tax base, right? Through either Mount Hood rates, water rates, ambulance fees, or through a debt exclusion, right? And it's critically important as we move forward note a couple things is going particularly in the schools there are tremendous amount of needs in our public schools and this this this debt is is although affects the operating budget is it in lieu of hiring those teachers that are necessary to run the operations of the public schools and you know debt is
▶ 1:00:35 an important thing to recognize because as we as we increase debt in any manner it's less one to spend on operations and we know as we look at the original governor's budget this year we can talk about this a little bit more at a later date we're looking starting the year almost two hundred thousand less than we had the year before either through assessments or through change in formulas that we're currently dealing with so we move forward but ultimately I do think that that this does address a long-standing problem that will continue in the future for comparatively short money compared to a building an addition or to evacuating the BB school or to you know move children to the high school in the middle school and finding a place for central administration which
▶ 1:01:24 Peter D. Mortimer: would be a well over a million dollars even if a place existed so I appreciate your support other obligations I supported the fields project which was a creative way to deal with our recreational needs I supported the debt exclusion for the middle school I just don't want somebody watching the meeting at home to come away with with a misunderstanding of our fiscal condition. I move to recommend the order, Mr. Chairman. Second. Thank you, President Kahn. President Kahn has made a motion to recommend this order for passage at our next full board meeting on Tuesday, February 21st. Said motion was duly seconded by Alderman McAteer-Margolis. Seeing no further discussion, all in favor of the motion to recommend,
▶ 1:02:16 Peter D. Mortimer: please say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Hearing none, this order will be recommended to our full board, as just mentioned, for passage a week in a day from tonight. Thank you all very much for your presentation. Thank you. Alderman Boycella has made a motion to adjourn the Appropriations Committee. It was duly seconded by Alderman McAteer-Margolis. All in favor, please say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Hearing none, the Committee on Appropriations is adjourned. Don't shut off the camera, please. MMTV. HEW will reconvene. Our Health Inspector, Ruth Clay, is in the building now so we can proceed with the HEW meeting presided over by Alderman Lemmerman. Thank you, one and all. Good evening. We are reconvening the meeting of the Health, Education, and Welfare Committee,