Appropriations & Oversight Committee — 2017-01-09
Attendance
Robert A. Boisselle ; Donald L. Conn Jr. ; Scott M. Forbes ; Gail Infurna ; Jennifer L. Lemmerman ; Mary Beth McAteer-Margolis ; Monica C. Medeiros ; Peter D. Mortimer ; John N. Tramontozzi ; Francis X. Wright Jr. ; Michael P. Zwirko
Agenda
Minutes
CITY OF MELROSE APPROPRIATIONS COMMITTEE CALENDAR● JANUARY 9, 2017 Aldermanic Chamber, Melrose City Hall Committee Meeting 7:30 PM 562 Main Street, Melrose, MA 02176 The public should take notice that the Melrose Board of Aldermen may, on certain occasions, have a quorum in attendance due to standing committees of the Board of Aldermen consisting of both voting and non-voting members. Members attending this duly posted meeting are participating and deliberating only in conjunction with the business of the standing committee. Attendee Name Title Status Arrived Peter D. Mortimer Chairman Present Gail M. Infurna Vice Chairman Present Michael P. Zwirko Alderman at Large Present John N. Tramontozzi Ward 1 Alderman Present Monica C. Medeiros Alderman at Large Late Robert A. Boisselle Ward 4 Alderman Present Francis X. Wright Jr. Ward 3 Alderman Late Mary Beth McAteer-Margolis Alderman at Large Present Jennifer L. Lemmerman Ward 2 Alderman Present Scott M. Forbes Ward 7 Alderman Present Donald L. Conn Jr. President/Ex-officio Member Present In Attendance: City Planner Denise Gaffey, Library Director Linda C. W. Gardener
ORDER-2017-76 Authorization Library Renovation and Construction Grant Application Recommend Passage Board of Aldermen City of Melrose Page 1 Updated 1/25/2017 10:43 AM
Transcript
▶ 0:00 Peter D. Mortimer: Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. It is 7.30 on January 9th, 2017. This is the Committee on Appropriations. It is a committee of the whole. Every member of the Board of Aldermen is a member of this committee. I am the Chairman, Peter Mortimer. We are joined by the Vice Chairman, Gail Inferna. Also joined by Alderman Zwirko, Alderman Tramontozzi, Alderman Vision, Alderman Mary Beth McIntyre-Margolis, Alderman Lemmerman, Alderman Forbes, and President Donald Kahn. We have one order on our agenda tonight, it is a big one. to open for public participation second alderman inferno has made a motion to open the floor for public participation duly seconded by alderman Boyce L all in favor please say aye aye any opposed hearing none the floor is now open for
▶ 0:57 Peter D. Mortimer: public participation any members of the public wishing to come forward to ask questions or make comments on this one order before us tonight you are welcome and please do so now good evening mr. Lillo nice to see you there's no pad there but would you just if you you know what you should write it so your address doesn't go out for the public at large if you care to keep that private okay write it and and pass it to our clerk oh your address is gonna go out on public record anyway all right yeah it'll actually be written in the public record anyway so so basically I just have a comment and then questions that I'm sure maybe will be clarified as you continue to have conversations about this first off I am a friend I I'm a
▶ 1:55 friend of the Melrose library so I I love the library but I guess as I look at this I think about what data has been collected that warrants the expansion warrants not so much the renovations but the expansion and is that available to look at is how much use is it getting what type of use is it getting those types of things that warrant this when I looked at what was attached to the agenda and it had a 16 million 593 number I don't know if that's the total number there's a 40 million floating around and so what is that total number look like and going out for grants and whatever money is available there is a stat that stipulation about have we have we got money in the last 20 years if we don't get the money what happens where does the money come from how are we
▶ 2:52 looking to fund that so I think there are a lot of unanswered questions on this that people and a lot of people aren't aware that this is happening so I think is it just there's a lot that needs to be clarified and then I would say that if we end up at the end of the year as we have in the past with I guess what it's called free cash is that we think about putting some money into reserves in case there isn't enough money at the end and we do need to have money rather than coming out to the taxpayers if right now there's 3.8 something like that four million dollars then that should be kept in reserves so that's it thank you thank you very much mr. Lillo and hopefully your questions will be addressed in the course of tonight's discussion about this order we
▶ 3:42 Peter D. Mortimer: have a motion to close public participation so move second alderman Inferno has made a motion to close public participation once again duly seconded by alderman Boyce L all in favor please say aye any opposed hearing Hearing none, public participation is now closed. And we will proceed with our one order on the agenda tonight. It is order 2017-76, library renovation and construction grant application. Motion to suspend the rules. Second. Second. Alderman Zwirko has made a motion to suspend the rules that we may hear from the appropriate city officials. tonight's discussion is somewhat of an overview. We're not down to all the financial brass tacks yet, but this will be discussed at length.
▶ 4:33 Peter D. Mortimer: This is only the application at this stage. So the motion to suspend the rules was made by Alderman Zwirko and duly seconded by Alderman Tramontozzi. All in favor, please say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Hearing none, we are under suspension and we would invite our city planner, Ms. Gaffey, and our director of the library, Ms. Gardner, to come forward and inform us about the nuts and bolts of this grant. This application, this is an application for a grant at this stage. Also, I would like to, now I understand what Alderman Inferno was pantomiming to me, this meeting is being recorded, and by law, it is available for future viewing the mmtv website and on the city of melrose website so that's part of the public participation open
▶ 5:29 meeting law that i mentioned that i didn't i didn't catch you drift at first alderman in front but thank you for uh pulling my coat to that fact uh ladies please proceed good evening um thank you for meeting with us tonight we are here tonight asking that the board of aldermen approved the preliminary design for the proposed renovation and expansion of the Melrose Public Library as prepared by tap a architects and authorized the mayor to apply for accept and expend any state grants that may be available for the cost of the design construction and equipping of a library project in the last few years the library completed a strategic plan which was followed by by needs assessment by the staff.
▶ 6:18 We looked at our ability to provide services that met our community's needs in all areas. Happily, we are a busy library, but do have challenges, particularly in the areas of accessibility, programming, technology, and flexibility of the building overall. Additionally, there are the needs that arise for any building that is over 100 years old. The new addition is over 50 years old. This information went into the creation of a library building program to outline our needs. In 2015, the Board of Trustees, with the support of the mayor, decided to fund a feasibility study and preliminary design process with the goal of applying for the Massachusetts Public Library Construction Grant Program. We created a library building committee and asked President Kahn to nominate an
▶ 7:17 alderman to serve on the committee. Alderman McAteer-Margolis expressed interest in the project and we appreciate that support. We hired an OPM and an architect who began a process that led to the design that you see today so where we're at now is very preliminary we are looking now to apply for a grant at the end of this month there are about 34 libraries in Massachusetts applying for this grant opportunity it's it's unique to libraries only libraries are able to in Massachusetts are able to apply and if you'd like to go through the slides and I think I have to go and Scott so well this slide is the proposed exterior of the building the proposal involves removing the current addition and replacing it with the one that you see
▶ 9:04 here by bringing the addition into alignment with the original building the current addition is in moves ahead of the original building the historic building is more visible when you're approaching from both directions of West Emerson currently when you come down West Emerson from a train station you really don't see the historic building until you're right up on top of it the proposed design allows for a single public entrance which does not require stairs or a ramp the current building you need to either use the ramp or use stairs in order to be able to access the building once inside stairs or an elevator are immediately accessible so everybody entering building has the same welcoming experience the second slide second slide shows the upper level which
▶ 10:02 will include youth services and administration the children's room you can see is the area to the left with windows that provide a good amount of natural light which is a little different currently they are in the lower level with casement windows and a separate program room that can be dedicated to youth services the teen area the library doesn't currently have a truly separate teen area so between area is on the the left-hand side of the original building you can see where that is sort of to the right of the middle thank you and yep and then to directly to the right of that would be a mixed use room that could be used for adults and as a quiet area in the mornings and then as an overflow and homework area for teens in the afternoons all the way
▶ 11:07 to the right you have administrative offices so I think it's good that on the youth services floor we do have staff spaces on either end of that floor the next slide is the main floor you can see that the main desk will directly face the entrance so people entering the building will immediately see a friendly face and be able to orient themselves know where to go this level will contain most of the daily adult services with several areas for comfortable seating stacks for new items fiction paperbacks and the art collection there will be quiet study spaces as well as conversational areas over to the right where Denise is pointing right now to the right would be the reference room which would have the PCs the reference collection and other reading areas the
▶ 12:18 final slide that's the local history room is in the back which will have special climate control for our unique Melrose documents it will be separated based on a preservation study that we recently had done so that the actual historic documents can be in a climate controlled area and secured and right next to it would be the reading room which also allows that reading room space to be used as another quiet study area to maximize the flexibility of the space and in the final slide it shows the lower level the proposed design includes a larger meeting space that can accommodate community meetings adult programming and larger children's programming there's a discovery space that will allow for new technology training ongoing workshops and function
▶ 13:25 as a meeting space the conference room will serve as a meeting or group study space much as it does today and you can see the majority of the non-fiction stacks in the center with then staff and mechanical spaces to the right and so these that's I know a very quick quick overview these are the preliminary designs with which we hope to submit the grant application and then they will be further refined as the process goes along thank you very much miss Gardner miss Gaffey would you like to add anything to that I was just going to clarify that that that we are not asking for an appropriation at this time this is simply a formality that's required by the grant funding agency that we review the plans with the Board of Aldermen and that we get this approval to submit the
▶ 14:26 Denise Gaffey: grant application we know there are about 34 33 other communities competing for these funds and the funds we anticipate about somewhere in the range of 40 to 45 percent reimbursement if we are if we are you know fortunate enough to receive a grant but the the vote that the ultimate takes tonight does not lock the community into anything it's simply like I said a formality and a requirement for the grant submission hopefully we get a grant award and at that when we find out in the summer about that we'll find out where we are in the pecking order they will rank all the communities we do not anticipate being in the highest need community so we feel like we'll probably be somewhere in the middle and we anticipate that that would mean it would be two to three
▶ 15:14 Denise Gaffey: to four years before we would actually see a project move forward so we don't think this is imminent so there isn't really and so we realize there are a lot of questions about funding the remaining portion of the of the project it's a little premature because we don't really have we don't know that we're gonna get the grant award we don't and then we don't know exactly where we're gonna fall in how many years you know before we can actually see a project thank you very much miss Gaffey thanks again miss gotta excellent presentation first in queue we have president Khan please yeah I just want to reiterate this is this is very early step in a very long process oh absolutely in fact these are like
▶ 16:00 Denise Gaffey: early schematic drawings they will these will get advanced you know if we get a if we get a grant award and we then get funding to further advance the design which we don't anticipate happening for a couple of years we would we will continue with the advancement of the design meeting with the building committee also we have we've had some meetings with the local Historical Commission but we also have to meet with the State Historical Commission and get their approval for this project since the building is on the register so there are a lot of entities that we need to meet with as the design develops and certainly getting more feedback from the community we've started that process had an excellent forum about a month ago with the opening it up to the public to
▶ 16:41 get some feedback on the preliminary design but but yes and in the answer it is this is similar to the school building authority process right you very much so you have to make an application for the grant to get onto the list exactly it's very very similar tonight's vote isn't obligating the city to spend any money at all very true submitting this application and getting us on a list and then they'll work the state entity that's the library equivalent of the school building authority will go through the applications for grants approve some disapprove others right we have no guarantee as to whether or not we're going to be approved or not and my understanding is this is also similar that in the event that you are are
▶ 17:29 Denise Gaffey: approved you get state reimbursement for somewhere in the 40 percentile of what the project would cost right right right 40 to 45 percent is what we've figured and that whole process you believe is going to take multiple years I do believe so Linda maybe you can clarify but I from what we're the feedback that we're getting from the state agency and the way they've practiced in the past they don't do this grant program every year because they when they do do it that they have 20, 30 communities, and then they have to spread it out based on the funding. And you're estimating in your grant application that this project is going to cost approximately $16 million? So in the event that you work all the way through these steps, you get the grant,
▶ 18:18 then the administration would have to come up with some kind of a proposal as to how they were going to fund this. And during my tenure here, I haven't really seen a spare $4, $5, $6 million in the operating budget. So what would have to be done in actuality would be if the city and the administration wanted to do this project, I would assume that at some point in time, we'd get a discussion relative to a debt exclusion or an override to fund this. Is that how this would work? my impression as well okay and in the event that there was a proposal to do a debt exclusion or an override for this that would come back to the Board of Aldermen and based on a submittal by the mayor Board of Aldermen would
▶ 19:07 deliberate hold hearings which usually take us the better part of a year to work through that process and then if the Board of Aldermen felt that this was an appropriate project from their perspective they would have to take a vote to put it on the ballot for taxpayer approval that's at all that sounds correct if it's a debt exclusion or an override correct right okay so so this is just filing the application for grant to get on the list and start this long process which maybe won't end till hopefully I'm not an ultimate could be a while I do have one question where's the parking going to be the parking will be for the most part where it is now there will be parking in the rear parking lot I think they've six spaces there so there's an additional space there and
▶ 20:06 then parking at the West Emerson lot and then as there is now street parking along West Emerson, Lake Ave, Myrtle, and the municipal lot for those who wish to use it and walk over. Okay, and just to be absolutely crystal clear, there is no funding required by the city in this fiscal year to file this grant application. That is correct. Absolutely correct. That's right. So whether we vote to approve or disapprove filing the application for grant, it is completely budget neutral in this fiscal year. There will be no impact on the budget relative to this order. That's right. Correct. Good job. Done. Thank you very much, President Kahn. Alderman Search, please. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Ditto. No, I just had a few questions, and thanks for bringing this before us this evening.
▶ 21:01 Michael P. Zwirko: um you had stated that the grant application is due at the end of this month correct so there is a sense of urgency then for the authorization uh this evening we have because of the way various municipalities in massachusetts operate they allow for the approval from the town governance after the application date but since since there was a meeting available we felt that talking to you before we actually go for the application and I know that there's no you know purse strings attached to this particular authorization but you know the thing that I just want to address is you know once you begin this you kind of can't undo it and you know if we were two three years down the road to be fortunate to be a recipient then we're
▶ 21:53 Michael P. Zwirko: going to have to ask ourselves some really tough questions so it's a good problem to have in some sense but you know it's just this is this is one of those moments where you want to be you know sure and I'm just you know you talked about that there was a needs assessment that was done by staff you said that there was a 2015 Board of Trustees feasibility study you know I don't see those attached to this order I would really appreciate it if they could be attached to this order so we could at least look at them in conjunction with voting on this authorization I have four schematics that you showed that I've seen in this grant application and you know quite frankly I just there's just not a lot of information that was provided with this particular order I
▶ 22:31 Michael P. Zwirko: don't have a big deal about authorizing the you know the application of the grant but I just wish it was a little bit more fulsome and I don't know the sense of urgency I don't want to put us lower down on the pecking order if we weren't to authorize it tonight but you know I'm just wondering if you know if maybe a motion where to keep this in committee for a short period of time if that might you know kind of give us a chance to look at some of the other materials that you have looked at in preparation of this grant I mean are those materials that you would be fine and attaching to this order are they proprietary or private I mean yeah we could we can said you can attach the needs assessment tomorrow because that's prepared in the feasibility study was
▶ 23:09 Denise Gaffey: kind of a process so we just we the architect looking at different ways to try to meet the needs of the library on the site through various you know various different alternatives so it's not really it's not packaged so much we can certainly provide more in details or more slides we went through a whole series of slides when we met with the public back in December so we can provide more more floor plans with a little more detail if that's helpful we can attach the preliminary cost estimate that was that was used to for the you know to come up with that sixteen point five million dollar figure that you said so you know those the information that we can we can include that it would be helpful I mean that's ready to go I could do that tomorrow no I would
▶ 23:56 Peter D. Mortimer: appreciate those additions certainly to this order if I need to make that motion I'll make that motion now and have those items attached to this order second all All right, we have a motion made by Alderman Zwirko that the documents he requested regarding the feasibility, excuse me, the feasibility study et al. be attached to the order. Said motion was seconded by Alderman Medeiros. It's an intervening order, so it's all right. There's no order on the floor, there's no motion on the floor at this time anyway, so all in favor of Alderman Zwirko order, please say aye any opposed hearing none so that passes so kindly attach that and provide that information before this goes to our next full board meeting the
▶ 24:46 Denise Gaffey: day after Martin Luther King Day and we can consider that further information next in queue I had one more question I'm sorry you could still have the floor Alderman's work oh please proceed to chairman the other question I had is this is this a one-and-done grant I mean do we have multiple time abilities to apply for this is this something that we could apply for you know the next calendar year if we don't hit the deadline this is probably won't do it again for another five or six years that's what I meant by they don't they don't run the grant program every year because they get so many communities and that every time they run it that they basically then it takes years to come off the list okay right so we did so we this really is you know the best
▶ 25:24 Monica C. Medeiros: opportunity okay thank you very much those are all the questions that I had mr. chairman Thank You alderman's work oh next in line we have alderman Medeiros please thank you thank you thank you very much alderman's work oh I agree I'd love to see the the needs of special assessment and those documents it was unfortunate that it just worked scheduling wise that your public meeting was the same night and time as our committee meeting so we you know most of us I know Alderman McAteer Margolis did attend but I either I think you know many of us could not and so you know we we'd like to have that information and be able to share that with our constituents as they have questions and about this project and as we you know move forward or decide not to move
▶ 26:08 Monica C. Medeiros: forward I just want to reiterate that the cost estimate right now is 16 million five hundred ninety three thousand seven hundred and four dollars that's for the entire project or that's for the portion that would be the grant entire project entire project and that's in dollars in today's value and I think there's I think there's a slight escalation built in maybe for a year that's kind of typical but it's not there's not an escalation in there for four or five years so I guess like if this goes out four or five years and say that the reimbursement is you know 45% would that be adjusted if to deal with the you know the new the new cost if I mean I'm gonna guess that probably things are gonna get
▶ 26:56 Monica C. Medeiros: more expensive you never know sometimes things get cheaper but right I believe that is how this program works they will they will adjust it to the time that you know it goes out to bid and then I saw in the the application you want a checkbox for applicant has not received MPL CP or LCA slash LSTA construction funds in the last 20 years and I can venture a good guess that the first set of of initials are for the Massachusetts Public Library construction program but I wasn't sure what the LSCA or the LSTA is and the LSTA is library services and Technology Act yeah the MPLCP is Massachusetts public library construction program I am actually not sure what LSCA is I'm guessing that might apply to some
▶ 28:10 Robert A. Boisselle: special libraries it's a library state construction act it's not something we've applied for so this is specifically related to libraries and us as applying for this grant wouldn't prohibit us from receiving some other kind of state building grant I know we're looking at for instance you know possibly public safety buildings and things like that so this would not impact thank you very much Thank You alderman Medeiros next we have alderman voice out please in your packet that was submitted on page five you talked about feasibility study but it also mentions long-range planning which is on file at the NB LLC is that then submitted to them yes that was submitted in 2013 it's a requirement of the state okay and is that available online to review and so
▶ 29:13 Robert A. Boisselle: because there's been some question of type of data collected for this type of project and would this document answer that type of question it should it was it was the beginning point of looking at this process this is a document that justifies the expansion it talks about the needs it was the study that we did for all all of our library services okay good and also the next item is the action plan what does that encompass as completed a FY 2018 action plan what does the action plan mean that is your step-by-step operation to the strategic plan each fiscal year we we submit an action plan to the state talking about what which of our goals we're going to be working on in that year okay can these documents are listed in this clarification be put online so the
▶ 30:10 Robert A. Boisselle: public and review it and if there's questions that come up they can be answered immediately so the public will be aware of it now this you talked about well the price as the Alderman was just discussing was about sixteen point five million dollars if we're talking three or four or five years down the line for actual construction what is the percentage of increase in cost I mean And each year, you're not getting the $16 million price tag for figures of 2016. You're talking 2020, maybe 22, price, are we looking at an extra 2 million, 3 million in that? You mentioned a percentage increase is in the document. Yeah. I think it's hard to predict. I mean, you can almost always say the prices don't come down.
▶ 31:08 Robert A. Boisselle: I mean the only time we saw that happen was when the recession occurred in 2008 and prices didn't well Didn't come down in construction, but I only think it's a little hard to predict. My only concern is is that the new? Presidents coming in and part of his concept is infrastructure and that's a lot of construction that's being looked at and what you're looking at here is going to fall right in the middle of this and and supplies and workers are going to be at a premium on projects if this goes through and so forth yeah unfortunately we can't control that yeah but is there a built-in 2% or increase or 3% or is a built-in I I want to say it's about a 5% increase that's built into 5% yeah for the you know that for the fact that
▶ 31:58 Robert A. Boisselle: we're not going to be doing the project right away okay again it's hard to predict all right in the going back to the construction of the pictures and so forth in the last slide that you had you had it looks like a meeting room how many people are going to be in that room in the lower left-hand corner I mean accounting here just the illustration you're talking 200 people it's about 140 It's 150, and it's designed so that it can be separated into, we can put dividers and have it as two spaces. So you're going to have dividers, and you make multiple rooms out of that. Okay, because I know the author's corner itself is, overflows into the children's, and they're putting in at least 50 or 60 people.
▶ 32:46 Robert A. Boisselle: So you're taking almost the entire lower children's area now, a good half of it, if you're looking at this and so forth. And the nice thing about this design is you can access that space independently of the rest of the library, so that can be open in the evening or later into the evening for a program when the rest of the library is closed. So in other words, in that indentation on the center area, that's your entrance way and they go downstairs with the upstairs being locked or separated, yeah. So they have their separate entrance from that way. Now that's handicap accessible at that level? It is. really nice features of this design is obviously today the building has a has accessibility from the rear which is not which is not code compliant handicap
▶ 33:32 Robert A. Boisselle: accessibility isn't through a ramp in the back of the building so this this this redesign would would fix that problem and create accessible entrance at the front of the building which is just in the submittal of the to the board of library commissioners you indicated you have just about 24,000 square feet in the building itself and the remodeling or renovation is going to enlarge this to about 27 about an extra 3,000 square feet 2400 it's it's a pretty modest right for yeah 16 and a half million dollars I mean you can look at a big house yeah I mean the whole building is going to be obviously we're tearing down a significant portion of the building right now that whole addition the 60s addition comes down and then the rest of
▶ 34:30 Robert A. Boisselle: the building will essentially be gutted and rehabilitated how long is the library going to be offline once the construction starts and so forth I mean you're talking demolition and renovation it'll actually be there will be no services at that facility and during the construction is there any relocation yep yep so there is we're having discussions about that now again it's a little bit early to plan for it but we are but you are looking forward to not dissolving the library for a year or a year and a half that's right okay in in this process the 16 million dollars represents the building the construction I hope you are going to upgrade the inside after renovation is that included in this it is so we're talking complete yeah I mean it is a
▶ 35:26 Denise Gaffey: hundred-year-old building right original Carnegie Library okay I mean all the systems will be replaced the HVA mechanical systems all the electronics the new computers the Techno this technology and furniture built into this number is all built in it's a significant project yes it's gonna be quite a showcase from I know the 2,500 square foot addition is a little bit misrepresent it's really not there's not a lot of additional square footage that's but the 16 million includes the entire the inside once you constructed you have new materials coming in to replace part of that okay you should push that also for 2,500 square feet that's a lot Thank You mr. chairman thank you very much for coming Thank You alderman boy self alderman
▶ 36:16 Jennifer L. Lemmerman: limelight please Thank You mr. chairman thank you very much for this information I have a few questions starting with the the feasibility study that you mentioned you you don't have sort of a packaged report from that is the is that the the feasibility study that this this board back and I think March approved a grant from the counter trust fund is that so you approve the creation of this trust fund of this donation account right so the library Board of Trustees released the funding to hire the architect and the project manager so that we can do this initial phase of design and grant submission so um yes that's what funded that's the one okay so the grant um had some requirements on it which when looking back in our notes and it was
▶ 37:09 Jennifer L. Lemmerman: somewhere to look at the building from top to bottom another was to look at its use over 20 years was there a requirement back for the a grant report at the end of that or anything that this information might be written somewhere that could be included no no i mean we'll for one thing we didn't get funding from them to do that work the grant agency um are you saying to package up the feasibility yeah i'm just wondering i know i understand there's not a package from the feasibility study which you said but i'm just wondering are there pieces somewhere that would be helpful for us to to see as well i don't know if we'd be helpful i mean basically what it is is a process and as linda can do a test we mean we met several times on several different occasions
▶ 37:51 Denise Gaffey: with all of the pertinent library staff and sort of you know these were these were half day long or full day long meetings programming meetings where we sat down and looked at different alternatives for laying out the space and then met with the built reported back into the building committee and got their feedback and then had further meetings it also involved you know bringing the that funding also supported bringing the consultants out the engineers mechanical plumbing electrical hygienists all that kind of stuff so we don't necessarily so we don't I mean we have in our files like all the iterations of plans but I don't know how helpful that would be sure to see okay I mean I'm just thinking of so for example if there was a requirement to look at the buildings
▶ 38:33 use over the next 20 years that just would be interesting information of what are we projecting over the next 20 years it's gonna be the use of this building right and I think that really comes in we'll you know in the documents the planning documents that Linda has has done the building program and the needs assessment which we will be able to that will be attached okay thank you and I want to make sure I understand the timeline so it could be anywhere from two to four years potentially because of the number of communities and where we are on the list is that for when if we were approved for when we would receive the funding and if so will we find out earlier than that that we're one of the
▶ 39:11 approved communities or will it not be two to four years before we find out if we're an approved community we will find out so in July July 13th they let us know all of the grant applications that have been provisionally approved and then as Denise mentioned they will be ranked so they will say the group that being approved for funding in that first year and then you can look at the ranking and see where you are on that list and project where you know if you're if you're at the bottom list of the list it's going to be a bit of a weight if you're somewhere in the middle you can project that will be a few years um and at the at the time that you are next on the list they will they will let you know okay now
▶ 40:09 Jennifer L. Lemmerman: this is the time that your project is going to get its grant award okay pending local funding right okay and so building on on that and with the pending local funding if if we were to be one of the communities um and we have a couple of years wait between now and then you know the way that this order the way that this order is presented it's you know authorizing the mayor to apply for accept and expend any state grants that might be available for the cost design construction and equipping of the library project is there an intention at this point are we we're We're obviously voting this evening, or whenever we do decide to come to a vote on this, on this particular grant, but that seems broad.
▶ 41:01 Jennifer L. Lemmerman: Are we then, is there an intention now that in the meantime, for making up the 60%, that we're also approving other, seeking other grants or anything like that? No, no. Unfortunately, they required this language. It didn't make a lot of sense to me either. We're not expending any grant funds. we're not appropriating any funds but this is the language that they so this is restricted to this one library renovation yes thank you and finally my last question Alderman Medeiros brought up the the question of time time being a factor in the cost and whether the cost might change these are preliminary plans so they will sound like likely change right and so therefore have an impact on the estimated amount and the estimated cost I mean we don't think it's going to
▶ 41:57 Denise Gaffey: change dramatically to be honest I mean we've done a lot of work I'm we hired the architect that and start had our kickoff meeting back in March so we have I mean they will change their their early design their early design I mean obviously we have to further develop the all the engineering and site design and things like that but the basic outline of what this project is is not likely to change that much we know we're not going to build a taller building mm-hmm we know we're not wearing we can't add any more square footage I mean that's where the real cost would come in so from that perspective I don't think okay there'll be huge surprises okay if there were some changes that were material and
▶ 42:43 Denise Gaffey: significant in any way would we be able to change the cost on the application or we locked into this number and then would have to you know maybe find ourselves trying to find funding for 70% or 75% so we're not we're not locked into this number you can clarify that I mean I think they anticipate since the project's not gonna get done necessarily this first year that I think I think we get locked into the number when we come and ask for the funding okay and when that occurs the contingency bill so it can be changed when we are talking more formal approval that's that's my understanding okay okay thank you thank you mr. chairman thank you very much alderman lemon next in queue we have alderman Forbes please Thank You mr. chairman I know probably 99% of the
▶ 43:33 Scott M. Forbes: questions have already been asked so I got a couple for you and I'm a numbers guy so forty to forty five percent of funding this program I mean we would get anywhere from six point six to seven point five million dollars in grant money and out of sixteen and a half million dollar price that leaves us nine to ten million dollars as our shortfall was that considered when going through the design phase and how big that shortfall would be because this essentially is a tear down and a rebuild in that feasibility study was there a different scenario where you could rebuild on the same footprint and how much that would cost that would something that I would be curious to find out the details of or if that option was even explored did that what
▶ 44:16 Denise Gaffey: was that did that take place in the discussions well we took the builder and the designer I mean we were certainly looking at every way we could to save money we're not trying to make this into like the Taj Mahal or I mean it's really we're really being frugal in our analysis of the of the project I think understanding this is this is one of those opportunities that we're not going to have for another who knows how long 50 75 years we really want to do it right so the design that you're that's being presented tonight is it takes all it takes that into consideration and feels really we do feel strongly about changing the footprint of that addition and using this opportunity to do that because because the placement of it the way it was placed is really it it makes
▶ 45:01 Scott M. Forbes: it very difficult to to create the entry the accessible entry that we need to create and we want to create and it also just it does overwhelm the Carnegie building the original building just by its location so we do shift that back okay so was it your preference not to go that to go down that route and and look at an existing renovation redo we did look at how much the number was no we did look we did look at renovating also but I think ultimately just concluded that this is a better solution do you remember the cost of that I don't know that we had a estimate for that okay I know this is just the application process we don't have a financial package or appropriation we're voting on tonight that was stated eloquently by alderman khan um it for me it's a 16 and a half million
▶ 45:55 Mary Beth McAteer-Margolis: dollar project to add just 300 3 000 square feet of space is somewhat somewhat apprehensive but i understand where you're coming from with uh with the dialogue that we've had here tonight so i'm i'm all set for the evening thank you mr chairman thank you alderman forbes Alderman McAteer-Margolis, please. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you both for your hard work on this, and being that I work in a library, I don't know how many people frequent the public library that often, or spend a lot of time there, but it does seem like a small amount of square footage that we're asking to be added, but libraries now are completely different buildings than they were when we were all in school and using them.
▶ 46:47 Mary Beth McAteer-Margolis: They are community spaces. There is probably not a day that goes by in the library that I work in that there aren't meetings, study groups, people using computers all over the building. We have a serious, not really a lack of space, but a lack of usable space at the Meadows Public Library. And we're finding that even in Winchester and our building was redone a huge renovation I think about 15 years ago. I think we shouldn't really lock ourselves into the exact amount or the timeline. Woburn, the city of Woburn started in 2010 with their first effort to redo their library. They just got their funding late 2015, and in the meantime, while they knew that they were going to get their funding, they did a substantial outreach to the public, and they raised like $4 million.
▶ 47:59 Mary Beth McAteer-Margolis: They got almost $10, I think, for their project, and I can't remember the total cost of theirs, but they have that historic Richardson building, so they have to maintain all of that as well. they're not even going to break ground until 2018 so you know many many things can happen in the meantime I think what we need to focus on today is is getting the application in I think things whatever you have available to us from the trustees and the term in terms of a strategic plan or any of those kinds of documents that show you know past library usage and where you're tight and why you know we need to think about this in in the long range will definitely be helpful going forward but as of today basically we want to get our our name on
▶ 48:50 Mary Beth McAteer-Margolis: the list get our foot in the door and and go from there and if we find that when we are getting closer and we're going to get 40% and the cost has gone up to 17 million you know you have a very active philanthropic board you're gonna have that great mini golf right as if one of the first fundraisers and at the end of the month and you know I think there are opportunities for the community to come together on something like this and certainly miss Gaffey with all the building projects we've done in terms of schools and school building Authority this is a very similar process and I have the utmost confidence of both of you that going forward we'll be able to do that and with that in mind I would
▶ 49:36 Peter D. Mortimer: would like to make a motion to recommend this order tonight Alderman McAteer Margolis has made a motion that we recommend this order for passage said motion was duly seconded by Alderman Inferno on further discussion we now have a motion on the floor but we have people still in queue so we will hear And now from President Kahn, please. Yeah, I'll be quick. Number one, the monies released from the state are contingent upon us having a funding source. 45% is not going to be released unless we have a funding source. So that's not going to happen, that's not the way municipal finance works. Number two, to circle back to where I started, This is a project, if it is going to be funded, it is not going to be able to be funded on budget.
▶ 50:33 It would have to be funded by some sort of extraordinary vote, which in all likelihood would be an override or a debt exclusion which would go out to the public. Second issue, the cost is going to be the cost at the time that the project and the grant is approved. By submitting this grant application, we're not obligating ourselves to do this project for $16 million. If in fact, in the real world, in real time, it costs $20 million by the time it's approved. So when the grant gets approved, it would be based on real numbers at that time. Third and final, and then I'll stop, is- Take your time, that's good stuff. This is not a vote where we're saying that we are going to support this project regardless of what happens down the road.
▶ 51:33 That's not what we're doing here. We're applying for a grant. The numbers could change. The numbers could be far, far greater at the time that this is approved than they are today. If I'm here when this order comes back, by voting to apply for the grant tonight, I'm not voting to support this regardless of what the cost is when it comes back three or four years from now. So those are all things that we need to keep in mind. I'm going to support the motion to apply for the grant for which we have expended no city funds that I'm aware of at this time. understanding is that the feasibility study was done by donations uh through friends of the library and the trustees so i don't see any harm with filing an application for a grant
▶ 52:26 Peter D. Mortimer: to see whether the commonwealth may give us seven million dollars to fund a new library thank you very much president khan alderman's werco please a withdrawn alderman's werco has decided not to speak on his cue are there any other room other alderman wishing to be heard before we take the vote on alderman McAteer Margolis motion to recommend this order for passage duly seconded by Alderman Inferno seeing no further alderman wishing to be heard we are ready for the vote all in favor please say aye aye any opposed hearing none this order will be recommended to full board for passage on january 17th that's the tuesday next week after martin luther king day no meeting next monday night you need not appear again this was an exhaustive discussion i think
▶ 53:20 Peter D. Mortimer: we pretty much covered everything we will look forward to those additional documents as requested and moved by alderman Zwirko thank you very much for your thorough and excellent presentation tonight we look forward to seeing you again sometime in the future motion to adjourn thank Thank you. Motion to adjourn from Alderman's Workout, duly seconded by President Kahn. All in favor of the motion to adjourn, please say aye. Aye. Any opposed, hearing none, we are adjourned. Thank you, one and all. Was it exhaustive? Very exhaustive.