Appropriations & Oversight Committee — 2015-08-10
Attendance
Jaclyn L. Bird ; Robert A. Boisselle ; Donald L. Conn Jr. ; Scott M. Forbes ; Gail Infurna ; Jennifer L. Lemmerman ; Mary Beth McAteer-Margolis ; Monica C. Medeiros ; Peter D. Mortimer ; John N. Tramontozzi ; Francis X. Wright Jr.
Agenda
Minutes
CITY OF MELROSE APPROPRIATIONS COMMITTEE CALENDAR● AUGUST 10, 2015 Aldermanic Chamber Committee Meeting 7:30 PM The public should take notice that the Melrose Board of Aldermen may, on certain occasions, have a quorum in attendance due to standing committees of the Board of Aldermen consisting of both voting and non-voting members. Members attending this duly posted meeting are participating and deliberating only in conjunction with the business of the standing committee. Attendee Name Title Status Arrived Peter D. Mortimer Chairman Present Jaclyn L. Bird Vice Chairman Present Gail M. Infurna Ward 5 Alderman Present John N. Tramontozzi Ward 1 Alderman Present Monica C. Medeiros Alderman at Large Present Robert A. Boisselle Ward 4 Alderman Present Francis X. Wright Jr. Ward 3 Alderman Absent Mary Beth McAteer-Margolis Alderman at Large Present Jennifer L. Lemmerman Ward 2 Alderman Present Scott M. Forbes Ward 7 Alderman Present Donald L. Conn Jr. President/Ex-officio Member Present
ORDER-2015-202 Bond Authorizing a Bond in the Amount of $400,000 for the Purchase of Real Property Recommend Passage Board of Aldermen City of Melrose Page 1 Updated 8/24/2015 5:58 PM
Transcript
▶ 0:00 Peter D. Mortimer: I don't know what the gavel is, but good evening, ladies and gentlemen. You don't know what the gavel is, do you? I think I saw it. Would you see it? Yes, almost. Plain sight. I'm going to log out and log back in. That was the worst head spot. I actually understood what he was doing when he got in. Maybe it was logged in from the last time. I just logged back in again. You're such a smart man. Slowly, I turned. Step by step. Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. This is the Committee of Appropriations, the Committee of the Whole of the Melrose Board of Aldermen. This meeting is being recorded by MMTV and is available for future viewing by going onto the MMTV website or onto the City of Melrose website.
▶ 0:50 Peter D. Mortimer: And you can get a hard copy DVD from MMTV as well. We have one order on our agenda, but before we proceed to that order I will announce the members of our board who are here this evening. I am Peter Mortimer, I am the chair. The vice chair is Alderman Jacqueline Bird. We are also joined by Alderman Gail Inferna, Alderman John Tramontozzi, Alderman Monica Medeiros, Alderman Robert Boisselle, Alderman Mary Beth McAteer-Margolis, Alderman Jennifer Lemmerman, Alderman Scott Forbes, and President Donald L. Kahn, Jr. Is there a motion to open the floor for public participation, please? So moved. Second. Second. The motion to open the floor for public participation has been made by Alderman Byrd, duly seconded by Alderman Lemmerman.
▶ 1:44 Is there anyone wishing to come forward for public participation, please? Mr. McGuire, please. Good evening, thank you all for opening up the floor for public participation. appreciate you also taking some time I know this is the second time you guys are reviewing this information and you postpone your initial vote on this matter hopefully you've had the time to digest more of the information and understand some of the other positions than what the city originally proposed a few notes that I have just to kind of summarize some of the comments Thorp been some information that I've been able to share with you including the parking study that was done in 2012 and some other information about development
▶ 2:45 neighboring communities and what we're doing in our community here and how this is in many ways contrary to the other efforts that we're trying to make in the city right now first and foremost well before I start let me just thank the few people that were able to come call me back and actually had some phone calls with you offline I appreciate you taking the time to call back so first and foremost you know the Appropriations Committee is is you know the body that's being you know deciding how to responsibly spend funds in the city and this is an unnecessary expenditure this is is a perceived problem but Thorp actually been a traffic study that verified this is not an actual problem and I suppose that this everyone has anecdotal information about you know
▶ 3:32 trying to get to a specific destination and not being able to park directly in front of it and maybe having to find another place that's slightly less convenient there are peak times that all the parking lots go through you know Thorp the peak times represent a small percentage of the time that they're actually available I just walk through the specific parking lot that we're talking about the Dill's Court parking lot Thorp no fewer than 30 spaces available as I walk through I stopped counting after that you know that's that's typically how the parking lot is there are peak times you know Thorp a an event at Memorial Hall Thorp you know maybe a Saturday night dinner at the restaurants downtown you know the Victorian Fair when when most of the
▶ 4:10 people are coming that's when the complaints are voiced not for the other 95% of the time when when the lots stand mainly empty and vacant and as an eyesore this you know this is not my opinion this is based on the traffic study that was done Thorp a very comprehensive study they actually even showed that the existing layout of the parking lot is not very efficient Thorp two-way traffic and all the travel lanes Thorp probably too many loops of travel lanes they can straighten it out and they added 13 spots in their example like I played with some of the layout and actually got up to 19 additional spots within the existing footprint of that lot so if parking count is an issue this you know this can be remedied easily with new layout specifically in
▶ 4:52 that lot and in the other Lots around town this adding 20 spots or 20 you know between 21 and 23 spots is about a one and a half percent increase in the parking downtown so for a one and a half percent increase in parking just you know to borrow four hundred thousand dollars and costing the taxpayers in excess of six hundred thousand dollars that that rate is parking garage rates for new construction of parking garages you know if you're gonna pay the rate per spot of a parking garage probably a wiser decision would be to actually build a parking garage and actually significantly impact the count if that happens to be an issue the the square footage is behind City Hall and even at deals court would support a structure I'm not advocating for that tonight I'm
▶ 5:35 just saying you're paying for 20 spots upwards of 25 between 25 and 30 thousand dollars per spot for parking garage rates is usually between 15 and 25 per spot so if if the spot count the parking spot count is really issue buying 20 spots here is not going to do it if the 20 spots is really the issue restriping can do it for a lot cheaper than this borrowed money and again the parking study backs us all up so it seems like an odd time to be shooting from the hip on you know going with anecdotal information that deeming this as necessary when you know walking one block to find a parking spot is not really you know the definition of a parking problem it's actually the definition of a success of downtown that that it's busy enough and that we're
▶ 6:22 supporting our businesses which I do as well that you know that you can park and can walk that one block and still get your destination and have a free parking spot another point is that this is contrary to what we actually just did this when i say we i mean the city just did a lot of great improvements on the tremont street zoning they're actually encouraging a smart growth zoning district down there and what's being proposed here by the city would actually not be allowed by a private developer in that zone the idea of taking you know technically a corner lot and not having the setbacks that are putting parking behind the buildings and behind the structures is completely out of line with the smart growth zoning that the city is trying to implement right now
▶ 7:04 and that's actually what I'd work with on my in my day job is sustainability and development and construction and one of the reasons that you know this stuck out to me is such a such a poor decision and idea to actually have this be part of the fabric of Melrose many of the other things the city is doing is great they're spending money in ways that I definitely agree with things like you know revamping the street lighting so that Thorp an expenditure of money that actually saves money that's great it's going to be more efficient it's more environmentally friendly the idea of expanding this lot for you know six hundred thousand dollars for for one and a half percent increase on parking is totally out of whack with what the city's doing in all these other
▶ 7:40 directions and is why it was odd to me the the last thing I just want you to consider is I think a lot of the times people think about what's there and think about you know would the parking be much better than what's there it's a building that's not been utilized for a few years Thorp been a from what I understand the lawyers office has been retired and so the idea that the parking would be better than what has been at that site seems to be the main feeling I'm getting for most of the people I spoke with on the committee here well it's not really being utilized great now so the parking is not really that much a detriment but what's happening with this decision is you're locking in that property
▶ 8:18 for the next 10 20 30 years not at its full potential you're i think if you vote in favor of this you're ignoring the potential for that lot to become the next business that people love about melrose the next coffee tea and me or lakachara or you know i know we have a plethora of architects in the town maybe somebody's looking to open up their own firm and looking for a spot where they can do business downtown and own the building so Thorp a whole Thorp a whole opportunity cost to the city taking this lot on with money that you don't actually have you're borrowing the money to do this where you're you're postponing the development of that lot with private money similar to the other neighborhoods that have been getting private money to be fixed
▶ 8:59 up and revitalized which i think is great right now we're actually in the process Thorp a essex Street revitalization committee trying to combat the problem of the surface parking lots the businesses aren't doing as well on Essex Street as they could I know two business went out of business the idea that the city is now going to take an under $800,000 grant which is great to fix up that corridor what they're really doing is they're trying to combat the lack of investment on Essex Street because of those surface lots what they do to the neighborhood and the zoning on Essex and on Myrtle is all the same as Main Street Thorp no reason why that whole block couldn't be developed just as nicely as Main Street
▶ 9:36 with private money but by the city purchasing this property you're postponing investment in that neighborhood if the you know the neighboring buildings go up for sale if Thorp a parking lot there you know it's not going to be the same vibe it's not gonna it's not gonna spread that positive investment of private money so those are the main three points that I just want to make is that you know you're asking for override the city I should say is asking for an override claiming that we need money Thorp a study that says this is unnecessary and yet it's being considered by the by the city is maybe a good idea it's contrary to all the other good measures the city is putting into place and you know lastly don't think about the lot in its
▶ 10:14 existing condition but think about what this decision is going to do for the next 30 years for that piece of property in the neighborhood on Myrtle Street thank you Thank You mr. McGuire anybody else wishing to come forward please mr. elegant would you please write your name and address there on that sheet of paper for the record please sir yep i'm jim halligan a mitre biter frame company 479 main street the center of downtown for 40 years and i can only tell you that as the downtown has improved over those years parking has become a difficult situation we ex i've seen the expansion of the friends lot i was part of the um study that mr mcguire talked about the chamber helped in that study we went out and checked at various times how many parking spaces there were
▶ 12:03 but we never did a seven o'clock at night check on a thursday friday night you'd be hard pressed to find one space and yes during certain times like on a monday morning You'll find plenty of spaces, especially in the middle of summer but a Saturday morning in September when the Y is going full blast and Gaitley's is having your funeral. You will not find a single space. I think taking this lot Taking that building and tearing it down and making a parking lot extension is looking not just now but into the future that's 23 spaces more that we'll have for downtown Melrose we have a lot of empty spaces at the back of City Hall but I would not want to go from there to go down to coffee tea and me I would want to pack in the vicinity of coffee tea and me so that was one of
▶ 13:27 the things that the study said yes we had available spaces and now that the city is ready to move the special permit people away from down the center part of downtown that will help but i see this lot as a future growth thing not just for right now and that's my opinion of the parking situation thank you very much mr halligan appreciate you coming are there other other members of the public wishing to be heard at this time seeing none motion to close public participation second we have a motion to close public participation made by alderman forbes duly seconded by alderman inferna all in favor of the motion to close public participation please say aye aye any opposed hearing none public participation is now closed motion to suspend the rules to ask
▶ 14:47 Peter D. Mortimer: mr van kampen and appropriate personnel to come before us would you hold that motion for one second so i can read the order oh sure then i'll read the order then we'll i'm with that the first and only order we have before us this evening is order 2015-202 authorizing a bond in the amount of four hundred thousand dollars for the purchase of real property um alderman inferno has made a motion to suspend the rules that we may hear from the appropriate city officials second alderman forbes is second of that motion all in favor please say aye aye any opposed hearing none We are under suspension, and any members of the administration who'd like to come forward to speak on this matter, please do so now.
▶ 15:31 Good evening, Mr. Chairman. Good evening, City Solicitor Robert Van Campen, and beside you, it is City Planner Denise Gaffey for people who are watching at home. Thank you very much for coming. Would you like to make an opening statement or proceed directly to questions? Mr. Chairman, if I may, I understand the Mayor sent a letter to the members of the board earlier today. Correct, sir. And for the benefit of those members who haven't had a chance to review it yet, and for the public viewing, he has asked me to read it to you this evening. So if you would bear with me, I'll be as brief as I can. Dear members of the Board of Aldermen, over the past several weeks I have spoken with many of you individually as well as with others in the community regarding 1 Kimball Court.
▶ 16:24 I would like to clarify and expand upon a few points in regard to the issue before you this evening. When we initially conducted the parking study in 2011-2012, it was done as part of an ongoing community discussion about the future of our downtown. At that point, there was great fear that we had excessive vacancies in the downtown area, and this study was a piece of the puzzle to figure out what we could do better to spur leases and investment. investment. We continuously heard the public and business owners' concerns regarding the challenges of parking in terms of both the number of spots available and the way they were administered and allocated. In 2012, the parking study was produced using a grant
▶ 17:04 as well as volunteer efforts from citizens and the Chamber of Commerce. A great deal of improvement has been achieved since then, and in fact, the Parking Advisory Committee has continued to meet since 2012. From the time the study was released up to now, there has been significant work on signage to clarify parking locations and areas community education and merchant and employee education in addition Dill's Court was resurfaced and restriped adding nine additional parking spaces and following a recommendation from the parking advisory committee the time limit for parking downtown has been increased from two to three hours today at 10 a.m. the parking advisory committee met and endorsed the new
▶ 17:45 merchant parking program this will be presented to the Board of Aldermen as well as the Chamber of Commerce in the coming months and it would require changes in city ordinance and the pricing structure for permits in order to do the following ensure that those purchasing commercial permits of any type must show proof of employment taking away any possibility of abuse eliminate the commercial parking program in its current form and offer free parking at satellite locations these changes will free up a considerable amount of parking spaces throughout the downtown area for customers it should be clear that this addition of parking spaces is not the answer to the parking concerns downtown but is certainly a piece of the puzzle to help alleviate a
▶ 18:30 problem that has plagued our community since 1930 when it was mentioned in the city's first master plan plans and proposals such as the parking study should not be considered set in stone and certainly government should be open to variation depending on circumstance and opportunity. That is true for any program or study that the city or a business conducts. The makeup and needs of our downtown have evolved since 2012. We have new owners and many new businesses due to the economic vitality of the area. Over the next three to five years we could see changes in ownership of several major properties downtown. As reported to you, the iconic Moynihan Plaza has just been sold. Additional parking along with complementary policy reform is integral in order for
▶ 19:17 us to be successful today and into the next decade and beyond. I am impressed with and thankful to those individuals who have been purchasing downtown properties for historic sums of money. They have means and they have a vision for a better Melrose. In order to maintain interest among the most select individuals with the ability to invest in those types of properties, city must make consistent investments to maintain the downtown's desirability and functionality if we do not the quality of investors will drop and property values will drop as well in order to continue to make downtown melrose one of the most desirable in the region we must anticipate trends make strategic investments and be ahead of the curve we can see around us those
▶ 20:00 communities that have chosen not to follow the path that path and you can see the difference The purchase of property in downtown Melrose over the last many years has been one of the soundest investments an investor can make. There is no question that our downtown has enjoyed long-term stability. For many years, the city was criticized for selling property too quickly and for low amounts. Purchasing this lot not only allows us to create parking immediately, but also creates the possibility in the future to sell the property if it meets the needs of the community at that time. This property without question will only appreciate in value. This is a sound investment in taxpayer dollars that could certainly reap immediate benefits
▶ 20:44 and potential options for more benefits in the future. As you know, we are about to begin an almost $1 million improvement of Essex Street that will extend to West Foster Street and Cedar Park. It should be noted that this project will certainly change the scope and dynamics of that area and the potential for development, both commercial and residential. The purchase of the Kimball Court property, along with our proposed new parking policies, will complement this plan. I believe this is a sound purchase. I believe that there will continue to be dramatic changes downtown that will create the need not only for additional parking, but also for additional forms of transportation, such as cycling, pedestrian accommodations, and public transportation.
▶ 21:30 The downtown we see today has evolved tremendously in the past five years and will evolve and change even more in the next five. If we fail to act today in purchasing this property, as well as implementing new policies in the coming months, we will limit those opportunities. In closing, are we claiming that 23 parking spaces will eliminate the parking issues of our downtown? The answer is no, but we do say that the changes that have been made, together with the Parking Advisory Committee's proposal to move employee parking from the high-demand areas and further advocacy for alternate modes of transportation, will result in dramatic improvement and allow for greater options in the future in terms of development and revitalization of the area.
▶ 22:15 Peter D. Mortimer: Thank you for your courtesy, Mr. Chairman, and we're here to answer any questions members may have. Thank you very much. And Ms. Gaffey, are you ready for questions or would you? Ready for questions. Ready for questions. Very good, thank you. Are there any aldermen who would like to make a motion or we are under suspension so we can proceed with an informal discussion at this point as well? President Kahn, please. Yeah, Ms. Gaffey, how would you respond to the comment that we're paying too much for these property spaces? I mean I think it's it's it's clearly the this is the the market rate I actually think it's below market for this property and I think we we were actually able to because of the unique unique way that it is situated in the
▶ 23:08 Denise Gaffey: parking lot alongside the Kimball Court we're able to maximize the number of spaces and get significantly more spaces than we would if it was just the parcel in question so I think I think based on that the fact that we are you know we are paying below market rate for it and maximizing the number of spaces it it seems like a reasonable investment okay in in response to the charge that this particular purchase is antithetical to the smart growth that we've been trying to promote throughout the last five to ten years how would you how would you respond to that you know what I think you know mr. McGuire makes a good point that we have we we always try to encourage parking to be behind buildings and I think that is frankly one of the great successes of our
▶ 23:55 Denise Gaffey: downtown the fact that when you drive down Main Street you're not seeing a sea of parking it's behind the building and um and that's true in our zoning we try to encourage that as well I mean we we although to be honest with you if you look at the if the zoning and you look at the way the the new assisted living will be laid out on the during lumber site we make accommodations for the fact that you can't always have parking behind the building and what we what we encourage instead is that there is a landscape buffer which is what we would propose to do here as well so we would have a landscape buffer along the front setback offering the parking from the pedestrian way and I think that's consistent with our zoning and this is going to have to go before the planning
▶ 24:35 board the site plan review correct so it's anticipated in the presentation that you make to the planning board that there will be some buffering along the absolutely and I can't I can't help but comment that I'm not asking anybody for an override so this this order in my mind has nothing to do with an override it's it's it's a standalone order the administration is asking for an override not me I only speak for myself in analyzing this order there are two issues that I look at number one are the additional parking spots needed and I actually I enjoyed mr. McGuire's presentation and he gave us a lot of additional material to review and it was interesting I'm not a traffic engineer or an expert on traffic but it seems to me as someone who grew up in Melrose in
▶ 25:42 the 60s and 70s when you could walk down Main Street and not see a parked car anywhere that parking is important to our business community and to the success of our downtown I understand at non peak times that we don't we may not be utilizing these 23 spaces but as somebody who's been on the board and involved in city government for many years and we're not claiming credit because a lot of most of the credit is due to our business community but I think that the city where we can has done our best to facilitate business development in the downtown area I think that it's important and I think that if we can provide these additional spaces that it's something that I would support and think that we should do in terms of the cost it seems to me that the cost is
▶ 26:43 not out of line with what we're getting here. I am cognizant of the fact, and I think it's important to note that we do not know what will happen in the future, and the fact that we're purchasing this property now doesn't walk us into ownership of the property forever or for continuation of this use. If things evolve in the future and these spaces are unnecessary and Thorp another use that we can't even imagine today might be appropriate, than hopefully the people who will be here in this room and upstairs at that time will be able to adapt. The other thing I wanted to comment on is there was some discussion at the last meeting about the loss of potential tax revenue in connection with the purchase of this property.
▶ 27:31 and by my calculation i think we may may be losing five to six thousand dollars a year of real estate tax revenue i think that the benefit to the downtown business community offsets that and i'm going to support the order although i'm not unmindful of the fact that there uh that we can differ on this and that there are some compelling issues on the other side but i think in terms of my experience with the downtown i think that we need to uh to support the business community i'm about to support this order that's all for now thank you president khan next in queue we have alderman lemmerman please thank you um has there been a discussion or is there a plan in place for um safety and particularly there will be some increased traffic in the in the lot with
▶ 28:28 Jennifer L. Lemmerman: more spaces there'll be more cars in there um you know whether through controlling the flow of the traffic in the direction or through enforcement or um was that part of the discussion here um really not so much we we don't consider that we are changing the flow all that significantly i mean you're still going to be able to circulate the way you do today and you'll still be able to to circulate out of Kimball Court we're just shifting Kimball Court over to accommodate the new spaces so so we haven't actually that will stay one way and that'll stay one way yes I've heard I know we've heard a little bit from some businesses with some concerns around just sort of the safety of the area particularly since some new spaces were recently done with the
▶ 29:12 Jaclyn L. Bird: reconfiguration and and I've experienced some of it driving through there that Thorp some kind of wild traffic patterns that tend to happen sometimes when people are angling for a spot or anything so I would just encourage you to kind of keep that in mind too as if this were to move forward sure thank you Thank You alderman Lehman and now we'll have some words from alderman lavender bird please I appreciate the time that the board has given us to review this matter more comprehensively i i had asked for that at the last meeting and i appreciate the support and vote to give us another meeting to process an issue that is clearly important to our residents and our merchants and i've spent that time you know talking to different people on the phone
▶ 30:04 Jaclyn L. Bird: and researching again the parking study that the city did three years ago and you know i would like to see a comprehensive parking plan i don't feel tonight that i have the information to vote for this very expensive transaction i don't think it's going to accomplish everything that we want to have it accomplish and it's it's a pretty expensive proposition over the long term for 675 000 total cost um i think you know we're borrowing this at an expense of doing other capital needs projects Which is a concern to me. I don't blame the merchants for being frustrated, you know with kind of the Maybe Slow action on the parking studies recommendations the very first short-term recommendation from the city's parking study was to implement a tiered commercial permit program and
▶ 31:01 Jaclyn L. Bird: I feel like that's what we were talking about today that the merchant parking Permit program was something that we're going to try to implement this fall. So this is about three years old So I don't blame them for wanting solutions to the parking, I'm just not sure that for the cost of this particular transaction of roughly $30,000 per parking space for 20 spaces is the way that I would like to see us invest when I think we haven't exhausted some of the short-term recommendations that the parking study had advised us to do. so i'm 100 for addressing the issue further looking at a comprehensive plan i'd like to see us look at ways to do this more cost effectively and um you know out of the people
▶ 31:42 Jaclyn L. Bird: that spoke at the last meeting i thought they were all right you know the merchants had very good points um i thought uh the gentleman who was an urban planner was a good point and i thought one of the best ways that it was summed up was saying we don't want a 1960s solution to a 2015 problem and i think it's a little out of character for this administration to go in that direction and um so i won't be supporting it tonight but i will be supporting a comprehensive plan if that's what comes before us in the future thank you mr chairman thank you alderman byrd alderman inferno please thank you very much mr chairman um unfortunately i was not here at the last meeting i was on vacation but i did watch it and i have to tell you this is was a tough vote for me i i sat
▶ 32:24 Gail Infurna: there and i've been going back and forth for uh with it for two weeks and i think it was today that i finally came to my decision so it's very interesting to hear everybody um i believe in the future of our city i mean melrose has always been very progressive in that um and i think um this is the way the this administration and this board of alderman has always worked looking towards the future and i think that's why we're the envy of many communities around us because we have been able to do that a vibrant downtown as we know is the success for any community people from other communities come to melrose and talk about what we have downtown so i you know no doubt that you know a vibrant downtown is successful and i understand that the
▶ 33:09 Gail Infurna: parking survey study was done in 2012 and you know now we're looking to that future and we're looking Looking at this study from 2012, it gave us some information, but you can tell in three years how things have changed since that study, in just a short three years. So I think, once again, I think we have to look towards that future, look to the commercial businesses and the space that's becoming available and plan for that. building is here now um and and i think it's at this time i i and i understand alderman bird's you know kind of perplexity with it but i i think we have to take it and run with it um i i've talked with people um about this and real estate is like the the best investment that any community
▶ 34:01 Gail Infurna: he can make and as mayor Dolan and Alderman President Kahn spoke earlier that if we had to give it up if something better came along because somewhere along the line the future didn't go according to our future we could do that and probably get a better price of that I'm glad President Kahn also asked the question about the cost of the spaces because I've heard back and forth on that so it was good to kind of hear that that we're probably getting it at a very good price um i also agree with mayor dolan when he said that this is not going to solve the problem um but it is a piece of a puzzle as a member of the traffic commission for a number of years i i guess i understand such puzzles and how we have to move in little baby
▶ 34:44 Gail Infurna: steps to get things done and if we're talking about as we heard earlier today from some from mr mcguire that the development of essex street carverda including myrtle street and whatnot i mean that's all going to be based on parking people aren't going to come and and want to be uh have a business in this community if the parking is tough i think we're in the summertime now we are seeing a lot of parking empty parking spaces as we go around and and kind of look at this but it's it's a summer and a lot of people aren't around so um i i hope as we move forward with this either way it goes that we continue to look at the parking issues that we really tighten up the reins on the special permits that are being given out because I think that is a big factor
▶ 35:34 Gail Infurna: here with the business employees parking right by their buildings or or anywhere that didn't I hate to be so crass about it but it's kind of like shooting themselves in the in the foot on that because if people if their cars are sitting there and people can't find a parking space and their cars are there for the eight hours it's kind of like they're they're shooting themselves in the foot so i hope we do move forward and uh work on that as um as we think about this um the real estate uh anytime you're bonding i i spoke mr delarusso anytime you're bonding in real estate it's always a good thing we're very fortunate here in melrose that our rating is so well with the um bond system so i i don't feel that this has taken a real big risk to the city
▶ 36:20 Gail Infurna: you know i i think at this time that you know we can still really do this and and do it well and be looking towards that future um so that we can continue to be the envy of many communities so right up until about 10 o'clock this morning was about it where i kind of said i think i'm going to go with this i think it is the right thing to do at this time the building just happened to be there at this time whether it was the chicken beef you know what comes first the chicken or the egg you know i think we have to take that so thank you for all the work that's been done on this and um we'll see how it goes thank you alderman inferno alderman medeiros please thank you um thank you first i want to thank all the residents that and business owners that have
▶ 37:03 Denise Gaffey: come and spoken before us both tonight and at our previous meeting and that have reached out to us by telephone and email i appreciate you giving us feedback um ms gathy how what is the zoning for this piece of property if if a private investor chose to purchase this piece of property what can they do with it um it's so it's in a business district it could be used in a multitude of different business uses as of right um it's a pretty small parcel i believe it's less than 5 000 square feet so it that kind of limits the development potential i mean theoretically the zone allows for four stories i i think that would be very difficult to do on this location i don't think it would be desirable anyway would kind of look out of context with the rest of the
▶ 38:04 Monica C. Medeiros: neighborhood but um but it could certainly be used as a in a business um use as a right or potentially mixed use i suppose like with a business on the first floor and a residential on a story above perhaps so certainly i mean it could in theory go to you know i guess where i'm coming from is as i've been thinking about this and i think a lot about what is there and i think about what could be there and i know our zoning does go allow us to go up to four stories and when i start to think about that i think that it if that is what goes there it's a very desirable location i think that it would just further increase the parking needed in that lot and kind of worsen the problem rather than make it a little bit better I guess I've been you know
▶ 39:07 Monica C. Medeiros: I had been leaning towards this I know that in some of these prior meetings that we've been in talking about zoning in the past few months we've made some changes I know I've expressed some concerns about reducing the number of required spaces but nonetheless that is what's what's passed and you know I I see this as an opportunity to sort of alleviate some concerns that might be that I have associated with that zoning change and to help support our businesses we've we've invested so much in so many different areas of our community but I don't see that we've done as much in terms of our long-term investments for our business community and I see this as an opportunity to do that and really see some growth there
▶ 40:06 Monica C. Medeiros: you know I did get to I'm glad we had a little extra time to look at this because I did get to look at the parking study and you know see like mr. Halligan mentioned that i don't really see the times where i find problems parking and where i have the anecdotes from having difficulty parking is that late you know maybe around 6 30 7 o'clock at night when Thorp events in the community and Thorp Thorp stuff going on downtown and people trying to eat and visit our local restaurants i think it's important to make sure that you know we we look at that parking study it also showed that yes it's very much a perceived problem but it's a perception on behalf of the driver that they said that if the the drivers that were studied
▶ 40:54 Monica C. Medeiros: that if there had been more parking available they would be more likely to to come and stay and park um i think that was in it i wish we had it in our thing tonight to refer it back to but But I think this will help support our businesses. And I think this is not necessarily incongruent with the zoning changes that we've made. If you look at that area, Myrtle Street, unfortunately, if you have to choose a side to be the back side, it is the quietest, less traveled side of that for that block, that square of parking. and you know this does keep parking behind our main buildings which is really Main Street and I think that is sort of consistent I think as we look and it's just almost more of an argument to me as I think about it more that as
▶ 41:51 Monica C. Medeiros: we have this development that is coming up on Essex Street one of the things that's in the zoning changes is that we would allow for residential use some to count some of the available public spaces so by creating more public spaces I think we create more of an opportunity for private growth in in the downtown and in those other areas like like Essex Street because we are going to allow you know those spots to be considered as additional spaces in that neighborhood is that is that a correct interpretation certainly yes and we'll be adding to the capacity so it will it will help to encourage him make it a little bit easier from if a business or even like you say a residential development or to
▶ 42:39 Monica C. Medeiros: try to get approval and trying to build out so as I thought about this more I guess I I am gonna support this tonight I think this is the right the right choice I think it's you know it's very unusual for us to take a piece of public property as private property and I can't recall having done it in my time here. But I think this is really in a unique location. And I think it will give us the opportunity to support our businesses moving forward and including some potential new residential growth in the area by by increasing the number of spaces. I, I just I want to think. Thanks. Thank you, Alderman Medeiros. I'm seeing no. Alderman McAteer-Margolis, please. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. This has been a real dilemma for me, too. I'm happy to hear in
▶ 43:34 Mary Beth McAteer-Margolis: a way that it has been for some of our other committee members as well. I do sort of feel like this is not the most progressive approach that we could be looking at. On the other hand I also feel like it's that we could definitely use a more immediate solution which this would help us with so I do have a couple of questions that might help ease my decision a little bit if I could have mr. de la Rousseau come up for a moment certainly mr. de la Rousseau would you join us for ladies and gentlemen in the gallery who may not know him and for people watching at home This is our Chief Financial Officer, our City Auditor, Mr. Patrick De La Russo. Welcome, sir. Good evening. Please proceed, Alderman. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr.
▶ 44:27 Mary Beth McAteer-Margolis: De La Russo, one of the overriding concerns, I think, that I've heard from some people in the community is the cost and the issue of bonding this. And we talked briefly about this before. The real estate is bonded for a 25-year bond correct but the construction is only like 13 years so can you can you just explain the rationale of that and whether or not we could bond for less time would it would that decrease the final cost to us weigh in on that if you would be so kind good evening if I may just before I delve into that question if I could respectfully just ask that this shot which we've all seen before and it's actually part of your debt model be passed out it may help in understanding a few of the points that I'd like to make on this this evening
▶ 45:37 thank you that was gonna be my next question thank you just for purposes for those perhaps that can see it at home I hope on the bottom bar here on the chart it's gray and that reflects existing debt service of the community and the dark chart is what has been proposed which has not been put to market yet in the form of a bond but it's projects that have been approved that and which includes an expectation of this evening's matter the 400,000 and what you'll see is that it's on a declining slide which is historically how we do our business here in the city and Thorp three points i'd like to make about that and why that is so important and i think it's perfect timing for the question we historically have adopted a
▶ 47:10 policy here that at no time will debt service of the general fund exceed five percent of the budget and we have held to that everything we do here pertains to that policy Thorp nothing has deviated and we continue that same exact policy the information that we have on our debt service has been provided from our certifying bank peter frazier and first southwest who's been with the city in over 20 years so we myself i know i have at least 15 plus years invested in the city so So this is something that we're extremely comfortable with and extremely familiar with. So our policy has always been to keep debt at a level that not only can we satisfy the debt payment, never put the city in jeopardy of any kind at any time, but also have an
▶ 48:11 horizon that is such that it will, I think it was mentioned by Malden and Kahn earlier, And for the next generation of people sitting here, the one after that, the one after that, you've left them with a tremendous capacity to continue that investment in the community that we have made here today and in the past. So that capacity is never taken away and it doesn't go away on its own. So we have provided a 30-year model. And why is that so critical? Because just by that alone, it demonstrates to the bond rating agencies that you take this very, very seriously. When that happens, they provide you with incredible opportunity in the market. You have a lot of people interested in buying your bonds because you are a very solid enterprise.
▶ 49:08 We have bids nine and ten times. we'll bid on our bonds, nine or ten different companies, and we get the best interest rate that is possible. Generally, we get a triple A interest rate, and we're a double A plus, which is phenomenal. So when Standard & Poor's, and I'm getting to the good stuff here, if you'll just bear with me a minute. So when Standard & Poor's came out and looked at us this past October, they said, because they look at the same exact information we're all looking at this evening they have the same numbers you have they have the same charts that you have they have the same deep knowledge from a certifying bank of all our obligation the entire city the general fund and all your enterprise funds they
▶ 49:54 have all that data and they said in the report here dated October 24th of 2014 They said that the short-term note reflects our criteria for evaluating and rating bands, which are born anticipation notes. In our view, Melrose maintains a very strong capacity to pay principal and interest when the notes come due. the city maintains what we view as a low market risk profile because it has strong legal authority to issue long term debt and to take out the notes and is a frequent issuer that regularly provides ongoing disclosure to market participants they go on to say that we have strong debt and contingent liability profiles. In their opinion the city's debt and contingent liability profile is strong with total government fund debt service
▶ 51:11 at 5.5% of total government funds expenditures and with a net direct debt at 56.6% of total governmental funds revenue. Meanwhile, overall net debt, after taking into account state aid reimbursement on school-related debt and self-supporting debt, is low, in our opinion, at 1.5 percent of market value. The amortization of debt is also rapid with 75% of principal to be retired in 10 years. Who else can say that? This chart tells you that. 75% of your principal will be retired in 10 years period. That's phenomenal. So as a As a community, we all, again, respectfully to the board, just take pride that you have that type of strength in the market, because you can't get better rates than you get, and you have tremendous access to the market.
▶ 52:27 People love to buy Melrose bonds, they love it. And that's a great thing for everyone here and all the people at home, because it shows true value and commitment to continue improving your community, where you live, what you do, the streets, the roads, the infrastructure. They want to see that, and that's what they're telling us. You're doing a good job, a great job. So I have no issue whatsoever with the issuance of this debt, short-term or long-term, because the numbers tell me you guys are fine. That's my long answer to a short question, I hope. thank you so in other words it's not a it's a good thing that we're going to bond on this according to our financial bond people they like that nevertheless
▶ 53:26 it is costing us money so if we did choose or if there was a way to bond it for less than 25 years could we do that and would it save us money in terms of total pay out of it if i made through the chair Thorp two things that are happening here on the illustration we're showing you five percent as of today that would not happen probably half of that is the interest cost we show you the most aggressive conservative figures we feel are need to be shown so that we never overstate or understate we're trying to be extremely conservative we have the ability to not only modify the term if it fits the model in the way that would be beneficial to the city but we can also refinance debt generally after 10 years
▶ 54:18 so if Thorp an opportunity to do that we will do that we also roll in any new debt that is taken on by the city we try to roll it into an issuance cost simultaneously with other debt so that we only pay one time not two or three times that's a hat it's a practice we've had for quite a while and it pays off it saves you like 40 45 000 each time so again in in my opinion we can modify that schedule provided the environment is cost effective okay and um when we did meet last week i did ask mr flavin he wasn't um as um direct perhaps as you and your in some of your answers there was no there are no funds that we have available that would cover any of this actual construction cost in terms of any of our capital improvement monies or anything like that at this time no okay all
▶ 55:15 Mary Beth McAteer-Margolis: right um thank you i do have a couple of questions for uh miss gaffey if i may mr chairman you have the floor please proceed thank you um and i know this is not um this is probably more the purview of what if and when this gets to site plan review but um i just wonder if we have considered things like um small i know you're looking for a variance for smaller spaces because all those spaces back there are smaller anyways so you're hoping to really get 23 out of it correct right the the space the um if we did them if you built them according to the zoning at 9 by 18 it would be 21. so at eight and a half by 18. as the building is currently if it were to be developed purchased by someone else and developed are there not spaces in that lot that are owned by that
▶ 56:08 Mary Beth McAteer-Margolis: building or designated by that in dill's court parking lot at the bark at the back of the kimball court property Thorp there are a couple of space Thorp a driveway right on the parcel itself there aren't like four spaces at the back that belong to that property no there are not that's all public parking okay um there are spaces that belong to uh moynihan plaza correct at the back of that lot i believe there there are a couple so if they were to change the footprint of that building those spaces could be lost i guess if they were you mean to expand the footprint um i guess that's true yeah i haven't seen any type of proposal but that is that is a possibility i I think, that that space could be built on.
▶ 56:53 Denise Gaffey: And the permit changes that are being anticipated, right now it looks like we have about 90 permits out there. Ninety merchant permits, correct. Merchant permits. And do you have any idea what that would, what you would anticipate that being decreased to or changed? Would they pretty much all the close ones go away? what the proposal calls for is the two different tiers I think I talked about this at the last meeting that there'd be there'd be the no-cost permit which we expect most of the employees to take advantage of and that would kind of push them out into the satellite parking areas and then there would be then there'd be a second permit that is roughly $50 a month or $600 a year that
▶ 57:37 Denise Gaffey: would give the owner of that permit the flexibility to park anywhere they wanted we actually proposed capping that at 35 35 no more than 35 at least initially to in you know we'll evaluate the program as we go but I would expect because of that cost and I think once people once the employees are educated and realize where the satellite parking spaces are that they're not as far as they might perceive them to be or they may not even be aware of all the parking for example on Berwick Street today I think most employees are going to choose to take the the no-cost permit and um but the part of this new recommendation from the new the parking commission and i know it's always a work in progress um is to continue the three-hour parking
▶ 58:23 Mary Beth McAteer-Margolis: correct and is there a component in terms of addressing that so there aren't people you know taking advantage of moving their car every three hours and you're going to ask that yes we we talked about that in fact today with sergeant gawk that in from an enforcement standpoint um very we would consider the three-hour parking maximum to be a maximum for the lot so no opportunities to just move this car you know to another space in the lot that would be that would be um prohibited noted or yeah you might get a ticket for that okay so as for the um space itself if we were to tear down the um to purchase this property and tear down the building do you have to do any kind of treatment on the surface do you have to is any compensation for water or anything like that
▶ 59:12 any kinds of um i'm not aware of any major drainage related concerns we do have um mr shenna is here and can speak to that he's really delved into a little more detail than i have into what will be the cost will be to to um create the parking good evening thank you this is our uh this is our director of public works mr john chena for people watching at home and people here in the gallery please continue alderman in terms of ex in terms of comparing existing conditions to proposed conditions we would make some adaptions to the storm drainage system change the locations of the catch basins the road is shifting shifting to the north so the catch basins would probably shift with it and we can compensate it basically the way it is right now
▶ 1:00:06 Mary Beth McAteer-Margolis: it's an impermeable lot there isn't any grass on it at all if anything with the proposed grass strip on the north side we'd be improving um storm water in that regards and the runoff from it so so you wouldn't anticipate any flooding issues or anything like that major major we've considered that in our initial designs and our initial estimate okay thank you and um so miss gaffey when this comes to um site plan review i just wondered if there would be an opportunity to discuss um things like smaller spaces for compact cars and bike racks um absolutely those are those are and some of those comments were raised at the last meeting and i thought they were good points you know we that is certainly something we could take a look at whether if we proposed um a couple
▶ 1:00:58 Mary Beth McAteer-Margolis: of compact car spaces if that would gain us you know much additional parking and since we're seeking the relief from the zoning board of appeals anyway right it might make sense to fold that in and certainly although I think some of our more environmentally conscious people who don't like this idea you know might feel better if we had like a little more green space or a few more spaces for the you know to make take advantage of that and some you know bike parking if that was available as well so um that would be it for my questions thank you mr chairman thank you everyone for all your hard work and again thank you to all the people out there in the public who voiced their opinions as well thank you alderman mcateer margolis president khan please for the second time
▶ 1:01:53 yeah um number one one thing i just want to make sure the public is is aware of i think the word taking has been used once or maybe three times i think at least twice maybe three times today this is not a taking this is a not an eminent domain procedure this is a purchase of property by the city so this is a purchase from the owner pursuant to a negotiated purchase and sale agreement um i hate to do this but i can never see the chart and not talk about it um i understand we have a good bond rating um i don't disagree with what miss del russo said but i just like the public to understand the chart and the context of the chart and i know you folks have all heard this said nauseam and i'm sorry but the chart indicates the interest that we pay out of our general fund
▶ 1:02:51 which is less than five percent of our city budget and i know you all understand that and all these folks understand it and they don't want to hear it again but people at home might not understand it so the money that the city of melrose has borrowed and has to pay back is not three or five or six million dollars the interest is that amount but the money that we borrowed if you add up the what i what i call it i get at this point i have my own my own jargon i guess that's unique to me you people probably don't even understand it but general fund debt is things that we borrow pursuant to our operating budget and we also have enterprise fund debt for water pursuer we have debt which we incurred pursuant to the special act where we use the mount hood revenues
▶ 1:03:50 to pay for our ball fields and and again i don't i'm not disagreeing with mr mr delarusso's presentation but the total money that the city owes in all forms of borrowing is in excess of 50 million dollars is that correct that's correct and the interest is three to five million dollars so um and i'm not saying that this is irresponsible i wouldn't vote for an order if i thought it was irresponsible but um i just think to the lay person when we talk about this chart i always think that if i was watching at home and i wasn't some kind of a foolish devotee of municipal government finance and law i would have no idea what we were talking about so i always feel compelled that mr delarusso knows this is coming every time every time he circulates the chart
▶ 1:04:43 Monica C. Medeiros: so hopefully somebody's interested in that and hopefully that answers some questions as to what the city owes doesn't owe and what the chart means thank you President Kahn and now we have Alderman Medeiros for the second time please thank you thank you yes and I think I was one that really used the word taking and it's probably not the best choice of words not the only one not the only one that's good but in that we are taking it off the tax rolls but of course we are doing this through a purchase and a purchase and sales agreement and not through eminent domain mr van campen if if we were to decide to take a piece of property through eminent domain rather than through a purchase how would the value of that property be determined and what we would
▶ 1:05:37 need to pay typically what would happen is if the city chose a parcel that it wanted to acquire via a taking which is not the case here this is an arm's length real estate transaction the city in such a case would take the property and a value would be determined which i presume would cause a dispute with the owner of the parcel at which point there would be an ultimate finding at some point i'm giving you a worst case scenario right now and the city would have to pay fair market value for that parcel so in this case the fair fair market value for this parcel is probably, and I don't have an exact number, north of $400,000? So probably there would be a, I'm guessing that the valuation of fair market value would probably be done by maybe a
▶ 1:06:31 Monica C. Medeiros: real estate appraiser who would compare comparable properties that have sold in the area that are like. So we'd be really looking at doing something not really knowing what the cost would be and of course this we do know what the cost is and this would be through an arm's length or through a real estate transaction with purchase and sales agreement correct thank you thank you Alderman Medeiros and for the first time Alderman Boisselle please going back to the fair market value is isn't it the market from the assessor's office the appraisal from the assessor's office or were you looking for an independent appraiser that's the city assessment that's what the city utilizes to um pass on the tax bill on this particular parcel and it's around six thousand
▶ 1:07:23 dollars to president khan's point of earlier this evening that's different from what one would consider a fair market appraisal from an independent appraiser okay thank you let's go back to the number of permits you mentioned you have 90 merchant permits in these parking lots well what other types of permits are used in these parking lots um Thorp also in Thorp two types of permits Thorp an overnight residential permit and a daytime merchant permit essentially and how many overnight and residential permits do we have no i'm not sure i have that number um that's a higher number and we're over a hundred over a hundred yep so we're up to almost 200 uh parking spaces that are taken over by permits but those are um in the the overnight um parking
▶ 1:08:18 Denise Gaffey: occurs in a um kind of a expansive area and then occurs on berwick street it occurs also in our commuter rail lot like cedar park in the city behind city hall and so forth yeah now with all development that's going on my principal issue with the Planning Board is the parking spaces within the residents area and so forth and what happens to these residents who've come in with an extra car are they going to get these permits to go into these parking lots they could they could an overnight parking permit of course the requirement so we could be expanding the permit system even into these 21 spaces I don't think we would need to expand the capacity for that okay I think Thorp plenty of capacity for the overnight parking based on those
▶ 1:09:15 Robert A. Boisselle: numbers all right in the study that was done you had citizens and you had the planning planning office and the Chamber of Commerce and you came down with a recommendation on page 21 at this stage of downtown parking conditions do not warrant expanding the parking supply I think again it's been two two and a half years it's changed and so forth now have you implemented a tear commercial is this what this this is what the program that that the mayor refers to in his letter his correspondence we've been working on it all year right now has the city improved the parking information to tell people where the parking is we we have we've done a wayfinding program you'll see that Thorp all new signage
▶ 1:10:06 Denise Gaffey: in the downtown throughout the downtown the parking key signs have all been replaced because what we found when we were doing that study is that frequently the parking signs would take a driver to the parking lots that were most highly utilized like the one behind Starbucks there was a nice prominent sign for that Thorp never Thorp not frequently not much parking behind there so we we did I think we've done a much better job of providing information about where all the all the municipal parking is through this wayfinding program very good now you talked about increasing the time limit to three hours maximum total someone works in one of the offices parks the car for three hours and they
▶ 1:10:49 Denise Gaffey: come out move their car to another spot how is that going to be enforced as I said we talked about it this morning in our meeting with sergeant gawk and and that's that is the the traffic enforcement of our parking enforcement officers are able to keep track of that information when they go around they record the cars and the license plates and then they go back and see if they're still in the lot if they will they'll be able to figure out if the cars just been you in that lot you're covering a hundred and fifty three spots I believe well there are a lot of different lots but yep you make so you're going to have a traffic officer put all this down and check it that's what they do today that's well I have some streets that need a traffic officer to check or
▶ 1:11:34 Robert A. Boisselle: speeders and you're going to commit an individual to do these parking spaces No, I think we have one already. I think there is a traffic enforcement official. He's not a police officer. Right. I don't think it's his only job. I think he works, he does this part time. I hope it's not. The chief is here, Alderman, if you want him to address that. No, no. On page 34, you had a conceptual reconfiguration of public portions of the deal court lot. And you gained an extra 13 spots. and it looks great in the design and so forth, and you actually had a plaza, and you had walkways, safe walkways, and so forth, why wasn't this initiated? That's a good question, and we found that once we, after we completed the study and we put that plan
▶ 1:12:25 Denise Gaffey: to the test and brought it to the engineering department and tried to lay it out, the problem that we ran into was all the overhead wires and the electrical transformers that run throughout that lot and made it Thorp a pole that sits in the center it made it pretty much impossible to do that type of reconfiguration so I mean we came up I think we did a really nice job with the resurfacing yeah but it isn't quite as nice as that plan was I would agree the plaza I mean how much would this cut plan cost well I think the redistricting of the poles and the power right I don't know that we have a cost the cost would exceed what we're discussing tonight and it would cripple the parking lot it's a major project
▶ 1:13:07 requires coordination amongst all of our utilities Thorp three-phase power on those utility poles it's not just streetlights Thorp power that feeds the commercial business district so aside from shutting that lot down the construction impacts of that project and the it is a whole transfer of power issue it's a main feed to the to the downtown district from the utility companies and three years ago we discussed that at length and the costs far exceeded this aside from all the coordination and the disruption okay you mentioned the overnight and residential are there any permits for residents to be in the parking lots for today at all not today technically overnight permit there that's only good from 2 a.m. to 6 a.m. so Thorp Thorp no way an
▶ 1:14:01 Robert A. Boisselle: individual can purchase a resident can purchase a particular permit and sort of lease it or sell it to someone outside of town like in Saugus or any place else so they can park and pick up the transit line and so forth not with an overnight permit so there is no dailies it's basically a commercial permit and these individuals will have to prove that they're working in Melrose yes and with with the plan that we're putting in place and moving forward we will have a rigorous test for that that would require verification hope it's notarized to next question you have of course the project is estimated at 400,000 but with all the interest it comes up to about this about sixty six hundred and seventy five thousand dollars total over the time period is
▶ 1:14:55 Robert A. Boisselle: Is there any money in, I know at this time of the year, we have free cash that's being, coming back to us from the state, or signing off from the state and so forth. Is there some way that we can lower this $300,000 and bring that number down? I mean, is there money available? Anywhere in the free cash section? I will use that as a term at this time. No. Nothing at all? No. Okay. So at this point, from what you're showing here, at the year 2015, our debt is just about $2.5 million, and starting 2016 or 2017, it jumps to just about $3.1 million, $3 million? Technically, in fiscal year 18 through this year, $3.33 million in those six to four. Okay, it's in that area. That's correct. don't come back to that original 2.5 million until 2021 maybe so we have all
▶ 1:16:02 Jaclyn L. Bird: right so we have six years just about six years of increased in debt by five to six years well the debt actually goes down yeah but I'm using 2.5 as a big We've come back to the baseline in about six years or 2.5. All right, thank you very much, and thank you very much for your work and consideration, and thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, Alderman Boycelle. Next we have Alderman Lavender Bird for the second time, please. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, Mr. De La Russo, for going over the financial piece for us. And, you know, I understand that we can afford this project as far as borrowing for it, and I appreciate the background on that. What I'd like people to understand with the true cost of this particular proposal is what the trade offs are.
▶ 1:16:57 Jaclyn L. Bird: Can you talk a little bit about comparable bonds, $400,000 bonds, that we've issued, that we've requested in the last, let's say, two years. The textbook bond comes to mind for $400,000, I know we did. and and miss Gaffey if you could be thinking about sort of the top three capital improvement projects that this is going instead of and I my point being that our own city funded parking study specifically advised against putting major investment into capital investment into expanding the parking supply and instead looking at a lower cost alternative of pushing parking into the underutilized lots so what I'd like the public to understand is what we're what we're trading for doing it this way you know so they understand what projects
▶ 1:17:47 Jaclyn L. Bird: are we not able to fund right now by borrowing because we're doing this you know are there two or three things that we have to put off now because we're funding this particular thing instead of also addressing the parking while keeping the cost down I'm just curious if we have you know I know we talked about we don't have the master plan let me plan yet but do we have capital improvement project list that I'm sure is pretty long especially after this winter with our historic buildings and so forth do we have three at the top of the list that are now kind of waiting in queue because we're doing this instead I honestly can't think of a project that would that we would accomplish off the top of that list with this amount of money okay most of the projects are are
▶ 1:18:29 a little bit more costly mr. de la Rousseau can you think of any others that were around four hundred to a half million dollars that we recently paid for our bonded for sorry the last one through the chair that we had talked about was for the technology and that's the one we're looking at three hundred thousand per year over five years we're going to directly expense that put it directly into the budget if it's approved by the board that would have been 1.5 million in total dollars that we would have had to put onto the debt schedule that we did not um and you know short of that the second one of the whether it's the land or you know with some equipment a fire truck for example the net interest costs i'm going to pay
▶ 1:19:18 as possible you know they don't go by item whatever that interest cost it is will be for the project um so you know short of that we try again internally to make decisions that we don't carry um items first any longer than we need to which provides a rapid pay down of debt within 10 years 75 and that we also don't put items on which i think um was always mentioning don't put items on the debt schedule that there are other funding mechanisms by which we can use to date and going to alderman Boisselle question earlier we do not have free cash certified and that probably won't happen for a little while but but secondly on top of that given the nature with the winter that we had i made a commitment to the city that i'm going to do as i possibly can
▶ 1:20:12 to use any funds i get from free cash to pay down the deficit for this year so that's an excellent question another excellent question i'm sure there are comparable projects without question um for the future that we want to do but i guess timing being everything and oftentimes You know, you're not a market timer, when an opportunity comes, whether it's through the ESCO project or something similar to that, and it's advantageous, then it behooves you to take that move and make that jump, all factors being equal. That's why I look at projects in the capital major. Okay. If you could—I'm just curious to see it. If you could get me a list of, let's say, the last two years of projects bonded for
▶ 1:21:00 that rough amount i would appreciate it i actually have a list um i was able to prepare um just briefly from a question from all the boards of the projects that are actually coming off the debt schedule in 16 17 and 18 it amounts to over 300 000 in principle and i think um i have it i have I can actually distribute copies to the board. Here. Thank you. You got it? Yeah. Thank you. And it's $6,450 for interest. And again, this is just for informational purposes. It's in the model. It's always been the model. Thorp nine different projects. An excellent question, again. And Alden Forbes, I appreciate you asking me that earlier in the day. So we do have over $300,000 in principal funds. And we have $1,000,000 in equity funds.
▶ 1:21:42 And we have $1,000,000 in equity funds. And we have $1,000,000 in equity funds. And we have $1,000,000 in equity funds. And we have $1,000,000 in equity funds. And we have $1,000,000 in equity funds. i appreciate you asking me that earlier in the day so we do have over 300 000 in principle falling off made up of nine different projects but that is also the nature of the of the program no debt's gonna fall off so as it falls off as we said before we try to replace that with a new item so to keep the infrastructure improvement continuing so it doesn't just fall by the wayside and then pretty soon nothing happens no respectfully i i i do understand how that works and i appreciate that i i think what i'm looking for is within the last two to three years and
▶ 1:22:24 Jaclyn L. Bird: obviously i don't expect you to know this off the top of your head tonight but um projects that have had a similar cost price tag to them that we're bonding for so that we can get a sense of what this true cost is and just have some comparison over the last two or three years yeah last two to three years it would be great and i i just like you know the public to understand this is not our only option in looking at parking and it's a pretty expensive one and um i'd like them to have some numbers to compare that to so that's all thank you mr chairman thank you alderman bird seeing no further alderman wishing to be heard at this time is there a motion please motion to recommend we have a motion to recommend this order for passage to the full board
▶ 1:23:05 Peter D. Mortimer: made by alderman inferno second duly seconded by alderman lemmerman all in favor please say aye aye any opposed one opposed nine in favor uh the motion to recommend this order to the full board passes and it will be recommended to the full board at our next our next full board meeting next monday night august 17th and until then we are anticipating a motion to adjourn thank you we have a motion to adjourn from alderman bird duly seconded by alderman mcintyre my goal is all in favor please say aye aye any opposed hearing none the committee on appropriations is hereby adjourned. Thank you, one and all. You look like a school teacher today.