ORDER-2022-87 : An Appropriation from Free Cash (Account 01-324001) in the amount of Thirty Thousand Dollars ($30,000) to Mayor Professional Services (011212-529000) to fund a professional services agreement with Municipal Resources, Inc. (MRI) for Police Chief Recruitment.

Transcript (~42 min @ 46:16)

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▶ 46:05 Jen Grigoraitis: okay moving back mayor broder i think you can stay seated going back in order to our next order is order 2022-87 an appropriation from free cash account 01-324-001 in the amount of thirty thousand dollars to mayor professional services 011212-529000 to fund a professional services agreement with municipal resources inc for police chief recruitment still under suspension

▶ 46:43 Paul Brodeur: still under suspension the floor is yours uh uh madam chair if there's no exception no um objection i'd like to bring up um sean kelly sean is the director of police services and senior consultant at municipal resources inc certainly please join us mr kelly so i will do a brief

▶ 47:03 Paul Brodeur: introduction and then happy to answer any of your questions first i want to thank the council for offering their uh their time as we've had opportunities to discuss this matter in general terms in small meetings i want to be clear not in violation of the open meeting law and i appreciate that input to be sure um the hiring of a new police chief quite frankly is one of my most important responsibilities as mayor by engaging an executive search firm MRI it is my intention to provide the most community with a robust and thoughtful process to guide this critical selection as you know chief Lyle regrettably because of the laws of the Commonwealth we'll be retiring on most likely the last day of November there is a mandatory retirement age for police chiefs here in the commonwealth and that is 65 years of age the chief has done a tremendous job creating and maintaining in particular good community relations and i think our focus should be on building on that foundation as we move forward um with with the next chief and uh just kind of put a fine point on how how important the job is uh chief Lyle served as chief for approximately 15 years so you know we may come and go but more than likely the next chief of police will be a part of the community for quite some time and the open props the most obvious question is why hire a search firm because we have never done it before at least as far as I know and I've been around I suppose a little bit of time well it's become quite frankly in in this era it has become common for municipalities to engage with firms that have the experience to recruit assess that you know qualified candidates there've been many or numerous searches like this across the Commonwealth more a little bit more recently as as police chiefs have retired and while we have talked about in the in the RFP a very very broad candidate pool there is certainly the possibility that folks from other parts of the country might step forward and appear to be great candidates we also understand that there's a great pool of candidates or a strong pool you know here in Massachusetts and very locally in New England and I want to be very clear there's something I've been made clear since my beginning discussions of this process internal candidates from the most police department are welcomed and encouraged to apply there is this does not meant and will not be a statement of any kind of deficiency within the most police department it is an opportunity to build on their success and again to have a level of community involvement in the selection that has never existed before within the community this process will involve very multiple opportunities for community engagement stakeholders large and small and open process where there will be opportunities for everyone to weigh in there will be opportunity that's it for community members to share their perspectives and what they want to see in our next chief and I expect that we'll have some very interesting answers we know some things that are very important to the community around substance abuse around domestic violence around traffic but there are a lot of other things that this community is interested in as the community evolves the process needs to evolve so that we can so we can make sure everyone has an opportunity to weigh in regarding MRI they have proven to be an experienced partner for many municipalities that they have guided through this process and I'm very much looking forward to getting the process started with Sean and his team and with that I so turn it over to Sean for some brief remarks and then we're happy to answer any questions you may have about how we arrived at MRI or questions you have for Sean about the

▶ 51:29 Speaker 1: process moving forward again thank you for having me this evening MRI has been delivering services to municipalities throughout New England for more than three decades over the last several years we have done 30 to 50 municipality executive searches in New England every year this year is unusually busy we are at present doing about 20 active executive recruitments around New England so what you are experiencing here in Melrose is also being experienced throughout the Commonwealth and the other states in the region we are very experienced with police chief recruitments we've had you know it's it's it's tough to reach over and pat my shoulder 100% success with police executive recruitments over the last 30 years we've not missed so I i would encourage you to at least consider having us come and serve your community the way we know that we can the mayor's comments about reaching out into a into the community to help find the chief of police we can't advocate enough for our response to the rfp included a recommendation for what we call a hybrid selection process which at a point during the selection exercises we would bring together all the candidates for an assessment and while the candidates were working with us they would also be working with representatives of the community that would be up to you to find those people from the community a broad base representative of your community in as many ways as you excuse me as you decide and that way at the end of at the end of the day the engagement of the community the buy-in for your new police chief whether it's an internal candidate or somebody from Colorado who knows the trick is at the end of the day that the person is the best fit for this community not for a different community not for you know Malden but for Melrose and we are able to work with you to make sure that the process that's used is unique and will result in the police chief that is the best fit for you if you know I will outline a little bit

▶ 54:11 Paul Brodeur: because I know the the there's a memo from the human resources director about rfp process and there is a copy of the contract we're seeking funding for here tonight uh within your packet but to sort of sort of break it down the this process will it will cost 23 500 plus expenses that is a little bit more than um what we did for our last superintendent search and that's probably on a basic level a good um a good model to think about if you're trying to imagine how this will go not exactly uh the same by any stretch but this idea of of community involvement particularly to build that candidate profile and then moving on through a a vetting process that's described you know in the in the in the contract and the memo i think it's an exciting opportunity uh for the city and for for its residents but you know young and old to weigh in on again what i think we can all agree is one of the most important and quite frankly most challenging jobs uh one one seeks to fill in a community thank you mayor broder thank you mr

▶ 55:33 Jen Grigoraitis: kelly are there any counselors wishing to ask questions counselor Jamaleddine thank you thank

▶ 55:39 Maya Jamaleddine: Thank you for being with us tonight. You mentioned that your goal is to find the right candidate who will be good for Monroe's and not for any other community. We all know that Monroe's community, like demographic has changed since when Chief Lyle was first hired till now. What is it that you feel that we will, Meadows would require as the new candidate or as a new chief?

▶ 56:11 Speaker 1: Start off. Thank you. You tell me. It would be inappropriate for me to tell you what you want in your police chief. That's the whole design of this process is to engage the community at the very beginning of the process so that we're hearing from the community, from you, from these other committees that I've seen here this evening, interested parties in the community that may come to the public session and speak to this to this body you tell us what it is that you're looking for in your next police chief you tell us the characteristics and trait that you have that are interested in having for the next that's going to impact your policing here for possibly the next 25 years and i'll explain that in a moment if you'd like um and then we will craft the remainder of the selection process to fulfill that call okay

▶ 57:10 Jen Grigoraitis: okay thank you uh counselor Garipay followed by counselors williams and then obramsky

▶ 57:14 Mark Garipay: thank you thank you mr broder or mayor broder sorry mr kelly for being here um just one quick question you mentioned that you have a 100 success rate in in hiring um hiring police chiefs what are are some of the other communities that you've worked with in and around massachusetts has it all been massachusetts or has it been new england or throughout new england

▶ 57:36 Speaker 1: the executive level when i say that i mean anything from town managers and administrators to police chiefs fire chiefs finance directors and so forth anywhere from south carolina to prescott Maine in New England rather in the Commonwealth here just in the last 18 to 24 months we've done I'm sorry I'm drawing a blank for we've also in in New

▶ 58:05 Speaker 1: Hampshire Bo Tilton Northwood in Maine we just filled the south the city of

▶ 58:18 Speaker 1: South Portland position we've done Bedford and those were all police chiefs

▶ 58:32 Speaker 6: overall police chief yes thank you thank you we just we just just finished

▶ 58:50 Jen Grigoraitis: Haverhill you can continue to add them back in as we go counselor Williams

▶ 58:54 Ryan Williams: thanks very much and thanks for coming here and speaking with us about this tonight can you describe a little bit of the public engagement process that you typically use for this I heard you talk about the hybrid selection committee and read that in the contract as well are there is it is it a vision of this of your firm of the mayor to do any kind of in-person public gatherings email solicitations surveys social media outreach to gain community input what is what does that look like okay so great question so it's it's multi-phasic at the beginning as i said what we would do is we would reach out through the mayor's office to find some key people here in town that would contribute in response to your question to those first steps the the hybrid piece that we were talking about once as the process is building along again working with the mayor's office we we that's the royal we really you would find the people that you want to have represented on the the board that would do that hybrid assessment piece for the public typically we see depending on the size of the community anywhere from 15 to 20 people so who you want to have sitting in the room is entirely up to you and then we work with them to make sure that they will fulfill their their duties lawfully and then it's game on each candidate gets to sit there and answer the questions of however many people you

▶ 1:00:31 Speaker 1: put in the room and you know better than I that you know that this is the person that you want to have deal with your most intimate family problems or the things that are most irksome to the community so there it is it's it's that group of people that come in and they work all day long it's a long day for that community committee committee to work are in in the communities you've worked in are the committee meetings open meetings are they public meetings are they closed door meetings it depends there there are in some instances the legalities are such that they must be open in in other uh communities they're um they're certainly not closed because it's it's a a public group so the representation being public but that's again if if you want to have it televised we've done

▶ 1:01:25 Paul Brodeur: that too there is a i know it's from superintendent searches that there is a balance to be struck where they tend to as you know as the public as the process moves forward it also becomes more public because there are folks that might um quite frankly be interested in a position but night might not to be be too excited about their current employer um knowing that they are they are interested in said positions so we try to um i suspect we'll try to navigate that as part of the

▶ 1:01:56 Speaker 1: as part of the process that that's what the mayor is just talking about is the early part of the process it is our strongest recommendation that the uh the identities of those that have applied are not revealed in any way publicly simply because they as the mayor pointed out

▶ 1:02:13 Ryan Williams: They may not have told sir mom and pop it at their current employers that they're looking So until they get down to those last few Yeah, and and to be clear I'm thinking more about the community profile portion of the search not really the

▶ 1:02:35 Paul Brodeur: Yeah, I think I think you the the The superintendent model we used I think is fairly indicative of of the way things will go the some of the nuts and bolts of it still to be determined because we've got to get a contract signed quite frankly as the first step in in moving this along but yeah i think you'll see it as a obviously a dramatic difference from from past practice yeah and thank you again for coming

▶ 1:03:05 Ryan Williams: out and it's great to to have that public process wrapped around this really important hire counselor

▶ 1:03:14 Speaker 1: brumski um so during the with the process typically do you uh or does the committee come up with say three or four candidates to recommend to the mayor or is it one candidate or how would

▶ 1:03:28 Speaker 1: that work typically if you picture a funnel obviously the the largest group is at the top right and we narrow it down to um whatever uh the mayor and uh the selection committee We decide. For instance, we have done as many as five. We don't recommend that. The soup gets to be a little thin. Typically it's three or less candidates go in front of the hiring authority for a final interview. Right. And then have you ever had a situation where the process has had to start over? if the um the person doing the hiring decides oh i'm not happy with these candidates have you ever had that happen yes um we certainly have and the words that you'll hear from me spoken after tonight will be to the various people that are engaged in this process including our own team which i remind every time of this that just because the people are in front of you don't doesn't mean that you need to make a pick if the person's not appropriate or if the if the room is full of people that are not appropriate then we don't make a selection and we would recommend to the mayor that a second round be conducted right and then um so typically at the end of the process how often would you say an internal candidate is picked versus an external candidate not just police chief but any right that that's that's not necessarily uh a hard and fast number um in some communities there's uh really fabulous internal candidates and when they're put into a a mix with candidates from either around the region or around the nation um and a community like melrose quite frankly is going to be attractive to a lot of people around the nation my my bet is And they shine, and they demonstrate that the knowledge, skills, and abilities they have as a police officer or at the command or executive level is one thing, but when they add on the flavor of the local community and their knowledge of long-term service in the community, they become the obvious choice. In other instances, the community who has a belief that their internal candidate, great, great police officer, they enjoy seeing them walking around on Main Street, coming to their homes, having meals in the local restaurants and stuff like that. But then it turns out when they're among their peers of similar years of experience that great person, but not necessarily the best available for the city of Melrose.

▶ 1:06:22 Jen Grigoraitis: thank you but that's your choice councillor carm chady followed by councillor eccles and then

▶ 1:06:27 Manjula Karamcheti: councillor stewart all right i have two questions and i'm not sure if they really go to mayor broder or mr kelly so i will just ask give it a go first one and you can decide um so my first question is just who in the city will be the main contact to work directly with uh mri working like who will work directly with the consultant and executing the city side of things like the outreach to recruit community members to participate communication in terms of when meetings will happen where open forums where people get to give their feedback because generally speaking there needs to be someone on the inside to support the work of the consultant on the outside and and sometimes that goes really smoothly and sometimes it doesn't. So I'm just, I'm interested in who will be managing.

▶ 1:07:17 Paul Brodeur: It depends on the nature of the question. Quite frankly, it would be either the chief of staff or the HR director, depending on, you know, the nature of the issue that confronts us, if you will.

▶ 1:07:30 Manjula Karamcheti: Gotcha. But is there sort of a team working together closely to oversee all of it, or?

▶ 1:07:37 Speaker 4: That is the team, and me, of course. Okay.

▶ 1:07:40 Speaker 5: And then my second question is, you know,

▶ 1:07:44 Manjula Karamcheti: hiring a police chief is complex. It's obviously a hard job. Someone is signing off to protect and serve our community, you know, just in this day and age, you know, there's safety to worry about in terms of our community crime, there's racial tension, there's mental health issues. So my question is like, I'm wondering about the salary for the police chief. I'm wondering about the current facilities that we have available for the police department. Just in terms of actually getting the best candidate to commit to us, like are we competitive? Because it is a hard job and it requires so much.

▶ 1:08:28 Speaker 5: How do we make sure that the ideal candidate

▶ 1:08:31 Manjula Karamcheti: wants to actually seal the deal with us?

▶ 1:08:36 Paul Brodeur: Okay, it's probably a two-part question, because in terms of the recruitment outreach, the advocating, the advertising, the known networks that might respond, that's what Sean is here for, right? Which doesn't mean it's hard and fast thing. Obviously, it'll be an ongoing conversation and effort. In terms of the salary, we will be competitive, a part of that we will see from the marketplace and more than likely with individual negotiations with candidates as we move through the process in terms of the the building the building needs to be replaced and that is something that is going to confront it is confronting the the current chief it is confronting the Public Safety Building Committee and that is not something that that will be resolved before the new chief is hired. And so that person will have to come in with eyes wide open and more than likely will have some input. That would be a little bit of an interesting thing to try to navigate in that we have started the process already because it is a long, arduous process. But obviously, we're going to want to hear from any new candidate. And I would defer a little bit to Sean about whether or not to be part of the formal interview process if I were a candidate for chief and I was interested in the position I would certainly ask about things like you know what what's your capital plan what's your training plan how well do you support these things and you know the converse question that we want here from candidates about is so tell us what you think about whatever the case may be be a shared facility versus a standalone you know do you need training areas do you think you know that it's a smaller place is okay because you want your people out in the street that'll be part of what I would hope that they would

▶ 1:10:43 Speaker 1: pitch to us it is not uncommon during these processes particularly over the last five years I think we've seen more communities wanting to have their new police chief at least well briefed if not have direct experience in the design and build of a new police station so we're prepared to ask those questions

▶ 1:11:13 Speaker 1: that's that's something we do if you are if you are anticipating and it sounds you are that a public safety facility whether it's standalone police station or not that's up to you guys is on the radar for the near future then i would recommend that you at least

▶ 1:11:37 Manjula Karamcheti: touch that base with your candidates and just so it's clear some of the reasons i'm asking if we invest in a firm i want to make sure that on the other end we're prepared to be able to to get who

▶ 1:11:53 Jack Eccles: we decide is the best fit for us sure counselor eccles thank you madam chair um so i have two questions and one just kind of point of clarity i'll start with that we've said you a few times and i want to just kind of clarify what the city council's role in this is for anyone watching at home which is that we're likely going to receive one finalist right mayor bro you can correct so ultimately it's me by you generally caring members of the melrose community right and so we can we can provide input in that public process and so one question i have you mentioned that you're going to release finalists is there any public input available after any finalists are released is there opportunity for people to submit public comment on that kind of a to be determined yeah

▶ 1:12:38 Jack Eccles: and i'm not frankly i'm not sure i understand your question before i before i say yes or no okay so so at some point in the process there will be public finalists right everyone's identities are protected and then there's public a public list of candidates and that's that's your

▶ 1:12:53 Speaker 1: question there because you get to decide who gets released and when yep okay i didn't do you

▶ 1:12:59 Jack Eccles: anticipate any public input after that fact i would assume so yeah and then my other question

▶ 1:13:06 Jack Eccles: presumably there was some cost benefit analysis that went into this and internally handling this process would city staff is not free do you have any kind of number on what that's going to cost with what that would run the city should we not go with

▶ 1:13:25 Paul Brodeur: MRI no because it would really be a a softer cost in that sense it would be a more displacement of people's time FTEs whatever the case may be and you know part of what we are paying for is you know to to offload that a little but also to get a little bit more independence if you will and uh really uh you know we again i don't mean to keep reflecting back on the school committee process for hiring the superintendent but it is not unlike that and if we're going to have a you know a large candidate pool that we then sift through we want a a deliberative process and there's just a lot that goes into that and again these folks have done it before so they can help us with recruitment but they can also help us with screening based on their professional knowledge and background that will help us move the process forward but i want to be clear it is my process our process and these are folks that can just facilitate it and make it go a lot more smoothly thank you

▶ 1:14:38 Robb Stewart: Councillor Stewart. Thank you Madam Chair. Thank you Mr. Kelly and Mr. Mayor for being here tonight. Just a couple of quick questions on the contract. You state that it's between 90 and 120 days to perform the search effectively which and the completion date that as you stated in the contract is September 1 so That means we should start by May 1. Is that feasible? Absolutely. Great. Within days of signing of the contract, we're already engaged. Great, great. And it is a fixed fee cost of $30,000. If we go over September 1, would there be additional cost?

▶ 1:15:18 Speaker 1: Our fee's not $30,000.

▶ 1:15:20 Paul Brodeur: So we're asking for $30,000.

▶ 1:15:26 Robb Stewart: The contract is $23,500. Right, it's $23,500. $250, my apologies.

▶ 1:15:31 Paul Brodeur: Yeah, and the variability is the case for things like advertising expenses. There's need to pay for travel for a qualified candidate to bring them into the process.

▶ 1:15:41 Robb Stewart: Sure, sure. So let me restate my question. So it's a fixed lump sum of $23,250. If we go over September 1, would there be additional cost?

▶ 1:15:55 Robb Stewart: Why would there be? I hate to sound glib, sir, but it spells out precisely what we're going to do, and frankly, we've not gone over that time. No, but it does state that if any anticipated to extend this timeline for completion past September 1, you will notify us, but you don't say anything about any additional costs. So I just want to be sure that this is what it is. It is what it is. Okay. Okay. That's what I was asking. Yeah. Okay. Great. Thank you, Madam Chair.

▶ 1:16:26 Speaker 2: Welcome, Vice Chair Migliorelli.

▶ 1:16:29 Leila Migliorelli: Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you, Mr. Kelly, for being here. A lot of my questions have been answered, but I was just curious, when we're talking about community engagement, what have you seen or what do you recommend in terms of community stakeholders, people that the city should have around the table and involved in this process? What have you kind of seen in your own experience about who gets involved?

▶ 1:16:51 Speaker 1: It's a good question. So leave it to the federal government. Many years ago, they had a model that they used for some of the DOJ grants in terms of what they wanted to see around the table. And it's a basic foundation. They're asking for the schools, the judiciary, churches, the local government, prosecutors, and then civic groups.

▶ 1:17:21 Speaker 1: So then if you use that as your most basic foundation, build from there. you know who do you want to have I would look at the demographic makeup of the community if you have you know I'm wearing shoes so breaking out my fingers and toes is not possible I can only use my fingers if you had 50% female population and a 50% male population you probably want to have the room reflect that and that should be also reflective across your demographics in the city at at the very least then then you're getting the input and flavor from the community it's not just it's not just you know a select few thank you so my

▶ 1:18:14 Leila Migliorelli: question is for Mayor Broder given the timeline that's sort of been set out here do you have in mind or a process for by which you're choosing people to be in this committee you know group analyzing these candidates I do and again

▶ 1:18:28 Paul Brodeur: think not to parrot exactly what Sean said but I think there are some some obvious characters right some obvious groups that that we would want to be have involved certainly the schools the Chamber of Commerce I would be interested in hearing from Norris Wakefield Hospital we have sometimes have a complicated relationship with them DEI representation I think it's important certainly parents perhaps to the extent we have organized around some of the some crime issues or some some of those themes I would expect that no science against violence might be appropriate this course this is subject to their willingness to do it of course such as to be folks that are active in substance abuse um prevention efforts would would certainly be appropriate we see department heads that's not

▶ 1:19:31 Speaker 1: uncommon we don't see all of the department heads but a representative sampling so we'd have to be

▶ 1:19:38 Leila Migliorelli: if i understood correctly may 1st is when you would be able to get started i'm assuming then this would have the process by which to pick people on the committee would have to follow how soon after or like because obviously there's a lot of steps to happen before you get to that

▶ 1:19:57 Speaker 1: spot let me may 1st is somewhat artificial and simply because once you sign this as i said within days we've started the process of of gathering information needed to do that community profile to start crafting an advertisement that is effective for this community that type of thing so though May 1st is that that that line in the sand so to speak we're already

▶ 1:20:25 Paul Brodeur: working before then okay a different there's different pieces of input I guess I'd say where there is the the what I'll call the vetting committee that Sean mentioned but in terms of that initial public input process as we're trying to build that profile based on community input that is essentially going to be you correct me if i'm wrong come on come on there's not going to be a you know no no we already heard from um you know someone in law enforcement so we're not we're not talking to anyone else or we're not going to hear from any other victim group because we've heard from maeve everyone will get to to weigh in be that through a a survey process or um whatever you know obviously we'll also kind of vet it as we go meaning if we build a survey tool and 40 people respond to it we probably have a problem with the way we're doing something so we may have to correct on the fly and that's fine we're prepared to do that all right thank you

▶ 1:21:37 Shawn M. MacMaster: what is the will counselor mcmaster thank you uh madam chair thank you for being here uh this evening i just had a question about the hybrid assessment center because i've never never heard of a hybrid assessment center so can you talk a little bit about the the genesis of that idea and i'm just not quite sure what we're looking to do with that i understand involving the public i think sometimes that's you know best done through more of an interview process an oral board so why the why the hybrid assessment center and how did

▶ 1:22:13 Speaker 1: that come about because we're combining there's there's a there's an expense involved in bringing candidates from afar for instance okay so if after some of that boiling down that you asked about and we funnel it down to the X number of people that we're going to do an assessment center with if there are people part and I'm using this as as a you know a fingers and toes example again if they are coming from afar even if it's just one from afar there's an expense that's involved that if you were to have a separate community engagement over here and then a week later or two weeks before to do your assessment center then you've got that person coming back twice it doesn't seem to make sense so what we have done very successfully is we've combined these two events that they could they may occur concurrently while if you had a space like this available during the assessment center the community would be interviewing each candidate over the course of the day and some of those interviews depending again on on how many are invited to the to the assessment may be an hour hour and a half long and so by the end of the day not only is the committee well rung out but so are the candidates and when they're not in here with it with the community group they're they're either working on other projects that we've assigned them to do in there's no such thing as downtime on assessment day or they're in actively engaged in an exercise with the MRI team so again by the end of the day they know they've

▶ 1:24:12 Speaker 1: been through an assessment and the BS meter so to speak is very finely tuned MRI they may be able to get away with a candidate might be able to get away with some surface experience but we get to the in-depth stuff and by the end of the day we know and and by the end of the day your community group will have had an opportunity to give input and say we know too it's it's uncanny it's uncanny how often the community group and the MRI team picked the same two or three people almost invariably but there's different tracks so correct completely

▶ 1:24:53 Shawn M. MacMaster: different tracks so the skills based on the same day the role playing the testing that's done by professionals and law enforcement that's correct with laws departmental policy best practices and policing that's correct okay and so that the other side of the assessment will be an opportunity for the public to engage the candidate and ask questions about our core values as a community and what the what the mayor's you know vision may be or the community's vision may be that's right

▶ 1:25:19 Speaker 1: okay yeah so what we how we would do that um in terms of the machinations of the whole thing is uh my team would come in and my team is made up of uh professionals that have you know 30 40 uh in one guy's case 50 years old we have to kind of wheel him in on a on a cart um great guy he and they do these exercises that are they're taken from the national playbook there's there's there isn't a an exercise that we do that you haven't seen on the front page above the fold of some newspaper somewhere and we ask them to react effectively and while those things are happening another candidate be in with your community group and the notice kind of goes like this excuse me mr jones why don't you come with me please and they don't know where they're going they might be coming in with the mri team or they might be going in the community just like a police chief has to face a city council or a question you know during public session suddenly they have to be responsive

▶ 1:26:31 Shawn M. MacMaster: and appropriately responsive thank you and i appreciate the robust process that the mayor is putting forth the one piece that i think we may want to look at also is oral boards considering input from other police professionals in middlesex county in in other you know other parts of the state just to give other police chiefs other members of command staff an opportunity to

▶ 1:27:00 Speaker 1: ask questions i think we always we always do a structured interview and the people that are on that that interview are all police chiefs whether or not you decide to go out to Middlesex County for a professional board of more local people that's up to you that would be outside the terms of our contract but know that we do those very rigorous structured interviews during the assessment that's

▶ 1:27:27 Speaker 6: great thank you very much thank you mr. mayor thank you what is vice chair

▶ 1:27:32 Speaker 7: I'd like to recommend for passage so we have a motion to recommend for passage made by

▶ 1:27:35 Jen Grigoraitis: Vice Chair Migliorelli seconded by Councillor Eccles Mr. Clerk can you please call the roll

▶ 1:27:51 Speaker 1: Vice Chair Migliorelli yes Councillor McMaster yes Councillor Eccles yes Councillor Garipay

▶ 1:27:53 Speaker 6: yes councillor jamala dean yes councillor stewart yes councillor carm shady yes councillor obremski

▶ 1:28:07 Speaker 6: yes councillor williams yes president sanella yes and chair Grigoraitis yes 11 yes 11 yes so the

▶ 1:28:15 Jen Grigoraitis: motion carries thank you both for being here this will come before the full council next week thank