LIC-2022-12 : License: Application for Madison Ave of Melrose (MAOM Holding Company)

Transcript (~47 min @ 1:16:25)

Speakers identified by voice; unnamed voices are numbered within this recording. Auto-caption text — verify against the video.

▶ 1:16:22 Speaker 3: So you're looking for emotion to take while I'm just so many orders.

▶ 1:16:28 Speaker 7: A sense is most of the folks are here for a certain order. So I make them wait.

▶ 1:16:33 Jen Grigoraitis: License 22-12 out of order.

▶ 1:16:37 Christopher Cinella: So I could motion to take 22-12 out of order by Council grigor right a second by councilor Eccles all those in favor. Aye. Any opposed seeing none so that water is now out of order.

▶ 1:16:52 Jen Grigoraitis: I would Mr. President, I would make a motion at this time to seek immediate consideration on order 2022 licensed 2022-12 is you indicated. We have many members. Of the public here tonight, and I really think the city needs to make a decision about this knowing that the business has been closed for quite some time.

▶ 1:17:09 Christopher Cinella: Communities considerations being seeked any no objection at this time. So this matter is now before us this evening.

▶ 1:17:19 Christopher Cinella: there's no objection. I'd like to suspend our rules so that we could hear from our

▶ 1:17:24 Speaker 7: believe business owner and Council point of

▶ 1:17:27 Speaker 6: water must

▶ 1:17:31 Speaker 5: Mr. President, sorry, can you read the order for the record?

▶ 1:17:34 Speaker 8: License 2022-12 license application from Madison Ave. Melrose Mao maom holding company

▶ 1:17:43 Christopher Cinella: rules and our suspended he could identify

▶ 1:17:47 Speaker 10: yourself a good evening. Thank you, Mr. President and members of council. My name is Charles Gill. I'm a lawyer with the law practice at six zero weight Main Street in Melrose. And I'm sitting here with the applicant Caitlin Murphy also known as Katie Murphy. Katie is the owner of a second hand apparel shop also known as a consignment shop in downtown Melrose called Madison Avenue.

▶ 1:18:21 Speaker 10: Katie's here because On April 14th. She received. a seasoned assist letter from our our city solicitor that effectively shut down her business. She's been out of business for approximately six weeks.

▶ 1:18:47 Speaker 10: I am here. as her attorney because I believe that she has been unfairly. aligned and slandered

▶ 1:19:01 Speaker 10: I'm here to tell you that she is not a witch. but unfortunately from what I've heard not just this evening, but since I was first asked to represent Katie a little over a week ago. I have heard. scarless

▶ 1:19:21 Speaker 10: comments about her personally and about a business that has thrived at this location by its first owners are owned by her aunt for 11 years and Katie is his own the business and operate the business since January of 2017.

▶ 1:19:39 Speaker 10: I feel like I'm at a disadvantage as an attorney. I've been doing this for 40 years, and I've represented a lot of business people in this town.

▶ 1:19:48 Speaker 10: I represented. contractors auto mechanics auto body dealers landlords restaurants auto dealers

▶ 1:20:02 Speaker 10: a lot of professional businesses as well and this town and elsewhere. And when my clients have a problem with customers. And even lawyers have problems with customers we call them clients.

▶ 1:20:17 Speaker 10: We don't have to we don't get a cease and desist letter. Saying stop your business.

▶ 1:20:28 Speaker 10: And we aren't summoned to City Hall where we're happy to be here. Because we understand that there is a second hand dealer license involved for 125 dollars. She can get a second hand dealer license.

▶ 1:20:42 Speaker 10: I didn't even know there was an ordinance on the books for this and I began I've been doing this for 40 years. apparently neither did a lot of other people because she's Katie's never known. There was a requirement for a second here in your license. Probably a lot of the municipal officials who would shop at a store didn't realize that either. But she requires one. What she doesn't need. is This Witch Hunt this these these statements of innuendo and rumor in character assassination and to publicly humiliate her in such a forum. when my clients are getting a lot of business people in this town they have an issue. We go to court. If necessary, or we try to work something out. preferably because I think it's a disservice to your client. If you don't try to seek a solution among parties who are willing to bargain for a solution but in this case

▶ 1:21:56 Speaker 10: I've never seen such an ambush. I don't put it on this Council. I don't think I don't think this is the appropriate form for the type of allegations that have been made against my client. I feel terrible. From his corners and her loss. I've had friends die by ALS. It's just a horrible way. And it's it's heartbreaking. I'm not saying that to listen sympathy from Mrs. Corners

▶ 1:22:25 Speaker 6: or from this come this this Council.

▶ 1:22:28 Speaker 10: But she's making a business complaint. In business complaints if they're not resolved amicably among the parties can be resolved in court.

▶ 1:22:40 Speaker 10: Where someone can present evidence? The other side can present other counter evidence. Witnesses can be cross-examined.

▶ 1:22:54 Speaker 10: And instead of torches and pitchforks. We have things called evidence. And we can answer the allegations in an appropriate form.

▶ 1:23:10 Speaker 10: Ms. Murphy 31 years of age graduated from Providence College. She's a lifetime Melrose resident. I that's not true. She grew up in Melrose now lives in Medford. She graduated from Melrose High School. She was the captain of the women's hockey team the girls hockey team. She's had a thriving business. That she's operated. For over five and a half years. One of the other speakers said how is it that someone who has such a poor business reputation can Thrive that is remarkable. She has several hundred customers who are ready steady customers.

▶ 1:23:52 Speaker 10: She has an excellent business that now she can't run. She pays rent. to a landlord who's a business owner himself a formerly was She has bills to pay also and she hasn't been able to pay those bills.

▶ 1:24:09 Speaker 10: When I first was retained by Katy. I asked to seek an audience with with the chief of police Michael Lyle. Well, I've known since high school. I I think it's very highly of Chief Lyle. I think he's a man of utmost integrity. I like to think he thinks the same about me. Perhaps not but I think he does. And we've had business together before and we've been opposite sides of things but we've always been able to I've always been able to try to figure what does the what does the chief want here? Because the chief rejected as you know, because you have the applications in front of you he rejected or at least he put a denial of his position of Katie's license. And so I asked the chief. Why and I think the chief would support what I'm saying. He said Charlie we've had. several incidents involving your client involving customers who have been unhappy in one form or another regarding either purchases. They've made or experiences. They've had with Katie. To which I responded but that's why I'm in business. I have that's my clients my customers this it's not everybody gets along and not everybody is a happy customer. Though I voucher if that she has. Far more happier customers than she does unhappy customers. and so the chief pointed to five particular incidents three of which which happened in 2019 two of which happened more recently. I believe earlier this year. involving pocketbooks prom dresses sweatshirts all of which all of which were investigated by the police I don't know if the chief had offered these incident reports. If not, I'd be happy to all of which led to a finding of no criminal involvement

▶ 1:26:14 Speaker 10: in fact, if you look at some of the incident reports The investigating officer himself said this is a civil matter take it to small claims court if you choose to go that route if you can't work it out or take it to court, but this does not involve our department because no crime has been committed.

▶ 1:26:39 Speaker 10: with respect to With respect to the fundraiser which happened in September of 2019.

▶ 1:26:49 Speaker 10: She did not take a single penny. For her benefit. Well for anyone else's benefit other than the source of that charity. that fundraiser Luther

▶ 1:27:03 Speaker 10: detective McNamara from the marrows police department an excellent Detective was presented with I presume all the evidence that was alluded to by some of the speakers early this evening. I'm sure he spoke with them all. And I'm certain he spoke to. To Ms. Murphy and he he found no criminal finding.

▶ 1:27:30 Speaker 10: I have texts which I'm not going to belabor, but I have text between Ms. Murphy and detective McNamara saying that I could see I see no issues here. You presented all the records I've asked you to present. And we're not going further with this.

▶ 1:27:53 Speaker 10: but somehow somewhere on this yellow brick road. Somebody said we have an opportunity. To take a shot at Katie Murphy. It's not Chief Lyle. Chief is just doing his job and I respect him. He denied his positions. I'm going to deny it. That's fine. I told the chief chief. What can I do to change your mind? Because I do think she's been unfairly maligned.

▶ 1:28:27 Speaker 10: And he said Charlie. I want you to try to work out these issues.

▶ 1:28:33 Speaker 10: And and I told him I would. and I'm probably not the best lawyer in town, but my word is my bond. And I said I will make efforts to work. with any I'm not gonna call them victims because that's that's for Crime. That's for criminal law. These complainants who are extraordinarily unsatisfied. with her shop and again, he pointed to five over the course of three and a half years and I just said I need some time. I was just retained a couple of days ago. And he said fine.

▶ 1:29:15 Speaker 10: So I'm making a pitch to you folks. And let me Echo what was said a little bit earlier? Is this Council in the business? City business of deciding what a jury a judge should decide and be able to put an effectively denying her license is putting her out of business.

▶ 1:29:39 Speaker 10: She categorically categorically denies that she did anything. unscrupulous with regard to this fundraiser It's all hearsay. opinion and belief if if the family chooses. To take it a step further and go to civil court with regard to that and I hope they don't because I would like to talk to them.

▶ 1:30:05 Speaker 10: Then so be it. And that is the form. for judicate a dispute such as this if a crime was committed. then the Melrose police could take out an application for criminal complaint. in charge with a crime they haven't because they found no crime. They found no criminal involvement. So it's easy to get caught up in the emotions and quite frankly. I have too. It's very emotional. It's just extraordinarily sad. But I think we need to temper. The emotions a little bit here in what are we doing here? Who's next? If I have a client who's not happy with me? And there are some. I make mistakes.

▶ 1:30:58 Speaker 10: other business people in Melrose who have licenses whether the law licenses or Auto Body licenses or other types of business licenses so customers can now go to the police and say hey. I feel like I was ripped off. Oh, I don't think I was treated. Well. Oh. that's I think I got short changed and if the police find there's a criminal activity then so be it. But when they don't and in this instance, they did not.

▶ 1:31:31 Speaker 10: this is not the backup plan This is not the backup plan to now. We have a chance to get her. We've been waiting in the weeds. The police didn't do anything. We've decided not to go forward with a civil complaint, but maybe just maybe We can convince the counselors to do what we've wanted to do. To Katie and that's not your job and with all due respect and you do good jobs, but I don't think that's your job. So I'm asking for some Earnest consideration. from this from this Council

▶ 1:32:08 Speaker 10: She's a good woman.

▶ 1:32:12 Speaker 10: She has a good business. if her business Survives, then in all likelihood. She's practicing fairly sound effort. She's found she's practicing sound ethical practices if it doesn't survive. Well that happens too. That's how the marketplace works. What I did tell the chief. When I say it, I mean it. She could improve her business practices and procedures and policies. There is a policy in Massachusetts with consignment shops. It's not in the law. But I took a look at a lot of Consignment contracts. I learned a lot about Consignments. There's a 90-day policy. You don't pick up your Weirs in 90 days then they belong to the store. And in this Katie's instance, she donates for example the prom dresses and I'm sorry man for those prom dresses. They're important to you and I don't blame me for being upset. She was told. Verbally, it should have been a contract but it's not required by law. And when the prom dresses didn't sell that spring they're not going to sell on the fall. And it was over a year. Which he held those prom dresses and finally she donated them to DCF. My client is a product of the foster care system. she has really close relationships with DCFS adolescent program and she donates what she doesn't sell. to the DCF or other charities

▶ 1:33:42 Speaker 10: She's not a witch. And this shouldn't be a Witch Hunt man.

▶ 1:33:48 Speaker 7: This public comment is now over so please she will be out. She has

▶ 1:33:53 Speaker 10: an online business. So does Amazon? So does eBay if we've heard that we yeah, and they haven't heard of her we've heard of them. She needs a brick and mortar store. She brings in a lot of customer. She has a lot of happy customers. She brings them good businesses for all the merchants downtown as they do for her.

▶ 1:34:17 Speaker 10: I'm asking for your consideration. to give her an opportunity to let me you know, I'll talk to I'll talk to I'd love to talk to these people and find out more about what happened and we can I'm sure I'm confident we can seek a resolution with these particular complaints. But the chief presented five to me. And that's the only ones I can deal with. That's the only ones I'm going to deal with to the best. I can to best of my abilities. It takes two to do it if I could but I'll do I'll do the best I can. But to sit here and this public forum broadcast on Melrose and to hear the type of things that are said about her. It just turned my stomach.

▶ 1:35:03 Speaker 10: And not because I think they're true, but because I think this is not the place to do it. And I think it's with all due respect two and a half years later after the police have cleared this incident. I think it's not. I think it's a cheap shot. respectfully

▶ 1:35:25 Speaker 10: I'm sorry. I'm again. I've in 40 years of practice. I have I've never and I've gone to a lot of city meetings. What a boards. What a courts. I've never seen something like this where people can come in and just

▶ 1:35:43 Speaker 10: just drag a business like that. into Oblivion because of unhappiness

▶ 1:35:54 Christopher Cinella: Thank you casa. Is there any questions for attorney Gill or Miss Murphy?

▶ 1:36:02 Speaker 7: Council duality

▶ 1:36:04 Maya Jamaleddine: Thank you. Thank you both and I'm sorry for all the bad experience that you have. I just want to be clear there is a big difference. between unhappy patient and unhappy client and the experience that they have

▶ 1:36:27 Maya Jamaleddine: about someone who walked into her store and was not happy with what they bought. We are talking. about family who they did not have the time to grieve. Or say spend good time. before they lost

▶ 1:36:51 Speaker 12: the person And this human and and this was my concern. I'm

▶ 1:36:56 Shawn M. MacMaster: sorry consulate Mr. President. This is not a back and forth It's counselor at General Dean's opportunity and asked questions.

▶ 1:37:03 Maya Jamaleddine: I I just want to be clear about the difference between unhappy clients and a

▶ 1:37:10 Speaker 10: bad experience and I understand that and yes, I'm

▶ 1:37:13 Shawn M. MacMaster: sorry. Yeah, it's not a bachelor. Yes. Mr. Gill has been heard Council to John Modine is trying to ask questions of him and she hasn't been able to complete her questions because he's interjected now twice.

▶ 1:37:24 Speaker 10: I'm sorry. I thought she was done when when the counselors down.

▶ 1:37:27 Christopher Cinella: I'll be happy to passing around you. Please proceed and then Mr. Gilbert you can. Answer the question.

▶ 1:37:33 Maya Jamaleddine: I wanted to say sorry. Because our city probably did not handle it well. And did not have a good process. I want to tell.

▶ 1:37:45 Maya Jamaleddine: I want to tell you that we heard all good experiences about your business and please don't worry and don't have this.

▶ 1:37:55 Maya Jamaleddine: Thought about us not supporting good businesses.

▶ 1:38:08 Maya Jamaleddine: I wanted to ask you. How are you going to talk with someone who is or with a client? Who is already lost? Who's not with us? How are you going to fix this?

▶ 1:38:19 Speaker 10: Maybe can't be fixed counselor. Maybe can't think but

▶ 1:38:22 Maya Jamaleddine: I'm also

▶ 1:38:24 Speaker 10: I cannot finish. That was I'm done. the question and I'd like to give you the answer if you have an

▶ 1:38:31 Speaker 7: answer to

▶ 1:38:34 Speaker 10: God it may be it may be can't resolved. But I'll try and that's all I can do. But that was my concern. These are allegations. In the allegations of wrongdoing were not supported by the police. If they didn't it didn't. Is it? It didn't happen. It didn't happen the way it's being described. laugh

▶ 1:39:00 Speaker 7: A constant McMaster. I have you and the queue Mr.

▶ 1:39:03 Shawn M. MacMaster: President. I just have questions with police chief. I know he's here but if any other consoles have questions from Mr. Gill, I would.

▶ 1:39:10 Speaker 7: At this time castle. No any other castles with questions? Oh and do you want to did you have something I had

▶ 1:39:18 Shawn M. MacMaster: questions not from Mr. Gill had questions for the police chief. I guess

▶ 1:39:21 Speaker 7: if we can have Mr. Chief Lau wants to come up. rules out suspended

▶ 1:39:35 Speaker 7: And there's no one else in queue you do want it? Okay.

▶ 1:39:48 Christopher Cinella: Thank you. You want to pull the mic over though, just so that we can get it on.

▶ 1:39:54 Speaker 7: going

▶ 1:39:56 Shawn M. MacMaster: Cheap the matter before us tonight licensed 2022-11 is a request for a special license to I'm sorry, excuse me, 2022-12 application for Madison Ave of Melrose. This is an application. sought by the business owner, is that correct? Yes. So we're here this evening because of an action that was filed by the business owner. Not anyone who has come in to speak to something. On an agenda which allows for public comment. Is that fair to say? Yes. Okay, so we're not here because anybody came to the clerk or came to you and filed the petition to have this matter heard tonight. I just want to make that clear. Chief how many formal complaints have been filed relative to the business practices at? Madison Ave. We heard Mr. Gill reference several complaints how many complaints formal complaints have been filed? So the when you're when you say informal Council, you mean a documented complaint with Police Department either a call to the police department to respond to a residence or the address of the business where it's operating or somebody walking into the police department to file a formal complaint. I would say several seven several several and so if Mr. Gill said five is that I mean does you have any reason a question that I went back to Junior one of 2019 there's many more before that but I didn't think it was fair to the business owner anybody else where these things go back to you know, 2015 18 somewhere here. So do we even know if the other people who have filed complaints know that this has happened those folks in the audience that must have picked this up on social media, but we don't know if the other complaints who filed something formally with the police department are here or even know about it. I don't know that we don't know.

▶ 1:41:50 Shawn M. MacMaster: Do you have any reason to believe based on the reports that have been filed at the complaints or something that somehow they know each other or that they're coordinating with one another before I gathered what Mr. Gillis said I want to gathered social media is South Beach folks are found out about Time they they seem to have learned of each other. I think situations. We have a resident of a mother of a student who went to the prom and we have somebody who knew the business owner who lives in Wakefield. We've no reason to believe they know each. I'm not a social media or expert Council, but I imagine these folks have some kind of connection. Okay, chief a member of the public as well as attorney Gil reference the age of Miss. Conner's allegation going back to 2019. How long have you been pleased for?

▶ 1:42:37 Speaker 5: 15 years. How long have you been a police officer for her to six years plus?

▶ 1:42:42 Shawn M. MacMaster: Based on your experience Chief as a police officer. Is it unusual for a crime victim to delay reporting a crime for any reason? Many many do for a number of reasons. Yes, okay. Based on your training and experience. Is it is it possible that there may be other victims out there who just chose not to report what happened? I believe so because that's not unusual when it comes to. Allegations of crime and I want to say allegations but not unusual. reporting

▶ 1:43:13 Shawn M. MacMaster: So Chief the thing that concerns me and I all I know is what I what I've heard tonight what we have that was presented to us on iqm too, but just based on the allegations. And again, I want to stress these are allegations from multiple people. Not one person. It doesn't seem like it's an isolated allegation. There seems to be problems probable cause to believe that there was an intent to defraud several members of the public by false pretenses. Is there a reason that? An application for a criminal complaint have a show cause hearing before clerk magistrate and Malden District Court for larceny didn't happen. Is there a reason?

▶ 1:43:50 Speaker 5: I believe we wanted to District Attorney's office with one at one of the complaints and it was denied. So there was referral made to the district attorney's office. I went to the district attorney's office is the District Attorney's Office aware that there have been other complaints. I don't know. Okay, I wouldn't anymore most of these incident reports you're looking at are one and done. Somebody follows a complaint that was it. Okay with the stage for them to take civil action, whatever action they want to do.

▶ 1:44:18 Shawn M. MacMaster: Okay, I would encourage you based on the fact that there are now. There are several between 2019 and the most recent one is is it just a few months ago? Sunday, okay Sunday I would encourage you to refer this to the district attorney's office with an understanding that there are multiple allegations. Not not just one. I agree with Mr. Gill. This isn't a court of law. We are not the judge. We are not the Jerry but there is a consumer protection matter that is a public interest. So I take issue with the characterations of a Witch Hunt and torches and pitchforks and yellow brick roads, because what we have before us is a matter that was filed by a business owner. We have members of the public coming in raising concerns about consumer protection issues. So I you know, I there was an emotion for media consideration. I was deferential to that because I wanted to there out of respect for the business owner attorney Gill the complaintance and other members of the public give them an opportunity to be heard, but we didn't have to go forward tonight. Anybody here could have objected on that. I have no problem with you know this being before us tonight, but I do have concerns about characterization that this somehow that there's no jurisdiction here. We have no jurisdiction clearly or allegations of crime, but we do have the ability to address consumer protection issues that there are licensed filed for a reason there is a level of oversight at the municipal level. So I just want to go on the record with that. That's all I have Mr. President.

▶ 1:45:53 Speaker 7: counselorelli

▶ 1:45:56 Leila Migliorelli: Thank you, Mr. President and just reflecting on counselor McMasters words. I I actually I want to I feel really horrible for this situation. I feel really horrible that all of you are here tonight to talk about an issue. That is not something that anyone around this horseshoe has experience with Really just to be honest. I think if there were criminal matters here, they should have been addressed. I mean if they they were not addressed they can still be addressed that should happen because but that is Way Beyond the purview of this this Council and I feel really really sad because I'm seeing people who are upset angry hurt discouraged about the process that's happened within the city in terms of Ms. Murphy's business. And then also with the allegations of crime, but this is not the body to bring It Forward. In fact, I'm not only in my upset. I'm a little I'm irritated on the behalf that this would be brought here that we would even have to hear, you know, characterization of Katie Murphy's behaviors that you have to share these painful stories with us and we can't offer you anything in return. Other than putting her out of business, but this isn't it. I wouldn't want to do the same to any of you based on we're not a judge and jury. So I just wanted to make that statement. I mean we could yes not give her a license. But this isn't this is not a court. This is you are not being able to be heard. She's not being able to be heard and this is not the appropriate body for this. So it really really bothers me that this was ever approached as a as a way a method to go to hear this. It's just not something that we do so I would actually prefer it this needs to go through the appropriate channels whether or not we issue her a license or not does not preclude anyone else from trying to seek, you know, retribution through the court system that can still happen, but we're not the ones that can make that decision. I disagree with counselor. I agreed with counselor McMaster up into that point. I just don't think that we're in a position to do that as a body. We're none of us are lawyers. None of us are criminal experts. We're not with the wrong place. This conversation to be happening and I feel really really sad that your time and your personal stories are being shared here Among Us. It just is a horrible thing to do to everyone in this room.

▶ 1:48:16 Speaker 7: Thank you counseling agoritis. Thank you, Mr.

▶ 1:48:18 Jen Grigoraitis: President. I want to Echo counselorelli's comments that I I'm just this is not the place for any of you to have to come and do this. And I think it's unfair to all of you, and I think we've seen a level of decision making without really kind of thinking through the consequences of that that have led us here. I just want to back up a little bit which is to say that the majority of us have served on the council since 2020 in reading the city code which is what directs this license to be pulled. It's an annual license that needs to come before the council in May. This is the third May that I've sat on the council and it's the first time that any license for a second hand dealer has come before us. So I first just want to state that some of these issues have clearly been brewing for a long time and we're never brought toward this body and I don't we can debate why or how that did or didn't happen, but that's the reality that I think pretty much every one of us sitting around here has either never had these licenses come before us or have seen it maybe once so, I'm A little taken aback that there was a decision made by the city solicitor to issue a cease and desist on a license that this body and this municipality have not been consistently. Tracking or reissuing and that now we're at a place where someone's business has been shut down. We're having folks come forward to talk about incredibly traumatic things that they've experienced and we are not able to make any of you whole and I think the fact that you are all here and having to sit through this just feels really wrong. I do want to slightly disagree with counselor McMaster. I if there was a decision made by the police of chief of police to treat incident separately rather than as a pattern of crime, if you're saying that you filed with the DA's office, there was something that wasn't brought forward and then everything else has been closed without being did I understand you correctly being referred to the district attorney's office. That was one of the matters but

▶ 1:50:08 Speaker 5: I'm here for the the permit. That's the only reason I'm here right? I'm just I denied the permit. That's why I'm here and that's why I'm

▶ 1:50:16 Speaker 3: presenting to you right? I'm just thinking as we talk about as

▶ 1:50:18 Speaker 5: far as these folks in the audience. I mean, that's a silver matter. Right on there be on half. They have

▶ 1:50:26 Jen Grigoraitis: to have that right. I just want it. So there's criminal matters which would be referred to the district attorney's office and they would make the decision whether or not they're going to pursue charges that is out of your purview as the police chief that is out of our purview as the city council. There are many avenues for civil complaints including the Attorney General's office under chapter 93a including small claims court also out of the purview of you because the police do not handle civil matters and out of the purview of this body. So I just I'm really frustrated that we're here as well. And I also don't want to allow my emotions to rule. What is a licensing decision for this body. And also recognize that I don't think through any fault of anyone on this Council. We have not been doing our job because we have not had licenses brought before us for the past couple years. So my mindful that this is years worth of stuff that is now catching up to us tonight in this moment. So,

▶ 1:51:17 Speaker 3: I don't know if anyone else wants to speak or I can make I don't have anybody else in

▶ 1:51:19 Speaker 7: Q that I miss any hands go up. Counselor Eccles wants to say you done counseloritis, or do you want me to I'm all set. I think counselor eckels. Thank you Ms.

▶ 1:51:27 Jack Eccles: President. I just have one question for the chief. I'm looking at just the chapter 143 here. Did you ever petition for a revocation or suspension of license? It seems like there's a few options as to why that could could be the case so fraud in that way he's talking about as far

▶ 1:51:46 Speaker 5: as this business. Yes. If they've never had one there was no way for me to worry, you know, revoke one or request a revocation Fair Point. Thank you.

▶ 1:51:57 Speaker 7: Anybody else for the first time counselor? Migliorelli? Did you end up? Yeah.

▶ 1:52:04 Mark Garipay: You know too comfortable grigoritis in counselor, maybe a reality's point. It's frustrating. when it went out of Judge in judge and jury in this in this Chambers and it's it is frustrating that for me that the administration did not sit down with the business owner and try to work this out instead. It was brought to us. with all with all this information and it's it's it's it's just very frustrating. It's not and necessarily and I preview I guess my question is where we we're gonna stop do we does the building inspector if there is a permit given to a contractor who's got civil lawsuits against him. Do we now start stop giving him building permits? I mean, I just I understand it's different but we're voting on licenses here and we got to be careful on on where we where we decide where we're going to fall on these. So I just am frustrated that this is even in front of us in in the manner in which it is. So that's it Mr.

▶ 1:53:12 Christopher Cinella: President. They have constantly next that I miss anybody else constantly just one question. So

▶ 1:53:16 Speaker 12: if this the matter that's on the agenda is the license renewal.

▶ 1:53:22 Leila Migliorelli: And that's why the three of you are here I kind of Highly dealt that everyone's been digging through our city council agenda to find out that this was on the matter. How how was I don't know if either Mr. Gill or chief Lyle can explain how the rest of the people are attending tonight to speak on this matter. If this is about a denial of or I could only speak on

▶ 1:53:41 Speaker 5: the five the five. Involved parties that so they

▶ 1:53:49 Speaker 5: were notified about this meeting. I called everyone to see if they their cases have been resolved with the business owner. They said no, so that's how this all started with me. And that's the reason why I denied the application for the character of

▶ 1:54:00 Speaker 10: the business. Thank you.

▶ 1:54:02 Speaker 7: What is the will?

▶ 1:54:05 Speaker 4: Of the question. How's this? Thank you Mr. President. Thank you

▶ 1:54:07 Robb Stewart: being here tonight. She file if if the parties involved were able to resolve. The issues would that change your disposition on? You denying the application?

▶ 1:54:23 Speaker 5: That was the meeting I had with the council. I'm sorry. I didn't hear that was a meeting I have with a counselor. He asked me how this could be resolved. I said make these individuals whole.

▶ 1:54:35 Robb Stewart: president it's pretty clear that. It's matter is. wide open and there I think would be difficult for any of us to make any kind of decision here. And with that I would motion to hold this in counsel. And give these folks an opportunity to try to work it up for they bring back kids.

▶ 1:54:58 Speaker 5: second

▶ 1:54:59 Speaker 7: so we have a motion to hold maybe a council Stuart seconded by a conflict McMaster on discussion Catholic rigoritis.

▶ 1:55:05 Jen Grigoraitis: Thank you Mr. President. I'm I just This business has been closed since April and therefore if this is being held in Council that business would have to remain closed. So I have real concerns about holding it. I think that that's Unfair to not have there be some sort of decision and/or temporary license. I recognize counselor Stewart that there are these ongoing concerns. I have questions myself about how it is that the police chief and an attorney work out situations that usually involve a court but I would be if there was a willingness to revoke the motion to hold to do a temporary 90 day license, which would bring us through the summer months recognizing that there are several events that the city is holding on Main Street and to then allow this body to come back after there's been an ample amount of time for things to be resolved with that would require us to listen to the motion to hold.

▶ 1:55:57 Speaker 7: do you want to amend your emotion or withdraw it and

▶ 1:56:01 Robb Stewart: I will withdraw my emotional try emotion counselor.

▶ 1:56:05 Shawn M. MacMaster: I won't withdraw the second Mr. President. Okay. Well the

▶ 1:56:07 Christopher Cinella: main motions withdrawn at this time.

▶ 1:56:10 Jen Grigoraitis: So I would make a motion. Sorry. It was I did withdraw

▶ 1:56:14 Speaker 7: my second Mr. President. So you want to take a vote on I think

▶ 1:56:16 Speaker 5: we just entire.

▶ 1:56:17 Speaker 7: The main motion has been withdrawn.

▶ 1:56:21 Shawn M. MacMaster: But the second has to be withdrawn as well and you're not going to try a

▶ 1:56:26 Christopher Cinella: Throughout the movie take we can take that vote. We can take that vote. holding this in committee

▶ 1:56:32 Speaker 5: on discussion on discussion

▶ 1:56:36 Shawn M. MacMaster: Do you have something that's present? I I have generally speaking no concern about their being a temporary 90 day decision on this but the problem is I would have thought the city solicit would be here and I have questions for the city solicitor about why this season does this letter went out what the the criteria was for determining that so I'm just not I'm not comfortable. Going forward on this without an opportunity to ask those questions of the city solicitor. I know the chief is there I'm not sure if the city solicit was planning to comment if the city social wasn't asked to come. I don't know so based on that. That's why I'm not withdrawing the second and why I would just ask that we vote on this and then if it doesn't pass certainly another emotion could be made by a counselor at that time anybody else

▶ 1:57:24 Christopher Cinella: on discussion? on the matter before us to hold in committee or holding the council counselor articles.

▶ 1:57:30 Jack Eccles: Yeah. I'm a favorable towards the temporary 90 day license because I think it gives some time for a resolution. And also I think that you know to go back to the the jurisdiction of this Council, I think that we don't we don't have the unilateral authority to reject a license based on you know, just what we've heard tonight. That being said, I do believe that there could be cause for the chief to pursue a revocation of the license inside a specific chapter of the code, that could have been. Um violated, so that's that's obviously open and then there is revisiting this after 90 days as well. But that's why I'll vote now on this motion at this time.

▶ 1:58:10 Speaker 7: Anybody else on discussion?

▶ 1:58:13 Christopher Cinella: Okay. So again the motion here is to hold this in the console. Till next time yes vote would be to hold no vote would be a fail Madam

▶ 1:58:24 Speaker 8: clerk Viva voje counselor Eccles. No council of arapay. No council. Gregoritis. No councilor maladene. No council Cameron Shetty. No councilor McMaster. Yes, councilman glorelli. No. Council abramski no Counselor Stewart, yes. counselor Williams no president sonella No. Nine, no motion. Okay motion

▶ 1:58:51 Speaker 7: fails. I would

▶ 1:58:54 Jen Grigoraitis: make a motion to Not recommend, sorry because we're in Council to approve a 90-day license, which would require Madison Ave and Melrose to return before the council at our September 12th meeting at which time I would also request that the city solicitor be present to answer questions.

▶ 1:59:14 Speaker 7: Motion made for a 90-day approximately 90

▶ 1:59:17 Jen Grigoraitis: day. I didn't do the math. I'm just looking basing it on our

▶ 1:59:21 Speaker 7: meeting calendar. Okay effective. immediately

▶ 1:59:25 Speaker 3: Yes.

▶ 1:59:25 Speaker 7: seconded by Council Gary pay and you discussion around that seeing no Chrysler carmichetti.

▶ 1:59:34 Manjula Karamcheti: I've been listening deeply to all the information that's been presented to the stories that were shared and Feel deeply for the situation that you were in and how you were treated and it was very confusing and very complex. But I do feel that. Given our Council we aren't in the business of shutting down businesses. That sort of not what we do. so it is a different avenue for that to be sort of investigated and pursued. And what I hope is that all parties involved, but particularly, Madison Avenue. By experiencing this will take a look at your business your policies how you treat customers and consider better more positive ways forward. but I don't think It makes sense for us to shut down a business. So.

▶ 2:00:52 Speaker 9: As this body your proposal makes sense to me.

▶ 2:00:57 Speaker 7: Castle generality. Thank you.

▶ 2:01:02 Maya Jamaleddine: The reason why I am in support of holding of giving you the 90 days. license is because I am hoping that you can reflect on what you heard today. and improve your business and be able to discuss and hopefully make the right decision with a family and other experiences when I walked into this chamber today. I I've heard about the bad experiences, but I was just bad experiences from clients that will not make me give me the right to give you to close your business to make the decision and close your business. However, when I heard those experiences it made me change my mind. I love Madison Ave. And I love every business in our city and I'm a big fan and support of all the businesses. But I truly hope that tonight. Would make you reflect. and and give you some motivation to change the policies. And hopefully make up something for this family.

▶ 2:02:16 Speaker 12: Thank you.

▶ 2:02:18 Speaker 7: Anybody else on discussion?

▶ 2:02:21 Jack Eccles: that's I think just you know as we think about granting this 90 day license something to consider as a council. I don't there's no action to come out of this. But what? What resolution looks like after after 90 days? I mean we're going to be forced to make this decision again and Some things may still be outstanding. So it's just worth worthwhile to think about that as we kind of Grant this temporary provision is you know 90 days from now what's going to be different and what do we want to be different?

▶ 2:02:50 Speaker 2: Thank you, Mr. President.

▶ 2:02:52 Speaker 7: Anybody else on discussion? Seeing none Madam clerk, please.

▶ 2:02:58 Speaker 8: Counselor Eccles. Yes counselor garapay. Yes counselor. Gregoritis. Yes counselor. Maladene. Yes Council. Karim Chetty. Yes counselor McMaster. No councilman. Migliorelli. Yes counselor bremski. Yes counselor Stewart. No counselor Williams. Yes president. Sonala. Yes 9. Yes.

▶ 2:03:19 Christopher Cinella: Okay Ocean passes. So 90 day. license

▶ 2:03:27 Christopher Cinella: Okay, so at this time we will recess and go back access motion to recess. The council regarded seconded by Council Williams all those

▶ 2:03:36 Speaker 7: in favor I suppose. Okay. We are

▶ 2:03:38 Speaker 11: now recessed. You ready everyone.

▶ 2:03:42 Speaker 3: Listen to it.

▶ 2:03:45 Jen Grigoraitis: All right. Are you clean and Jim? Are you guys ready? Thank you for bearing with us. Yes. I believe Vice chair Migliorelli was up for questions.