ORDER-2022-152 : Appointment of Julie Delillo, 13 Circuit Street, to the Board of Registrars of Voters for a three-year term; said term to expire on the last day of February 2025

Transcript (~38 min @ 12:02)

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▶ 12:00 Speaker 5: And the rules I'll make a motion to suspend the rules so we can hear from the administration.

▶ 12:05 Maya Jamaleddine: We have a motion suspended. that bye Vice chair Garipay pay seconded by president sanela

▶ 12:14 Maya Jamaleddine: The rules are now suspended. I would like to ask the mayor and miss delello.

▶ 12:28 Paul Brodeur: Thank you madam chair and to those who have not greeted since 10 minutes ago. It's good to see you all. I appreciate the opportunity present to present Mr. Willow as a nominee for the open spot on the board of registrars of Voters. I think it is important for folks to understand the way this process works because every nomination that I have the opportunity to make sometimes a little bit different than any other nomination, so Under Massachusetts General law the way that Boards of election Commissioners work is there with the possible exception of Boston four members one is the city of town clerk. Typically that person does not have to have a party registration. the other three do have to have have to be member of one of the two leading parties now that was written in a very interesting way because the two leading parties, I think when the law was written War for a long time the Democrat and Republican parties and that continues obviously until this day so when a spot becomes available depending on What spot is being filled? You have to have again you have to have that balance. So no more than two folks of the same party. Are on the board in this case, our city clerk is an unenrolled voter. So she doesn't she doesn't affect that calculus essentially when they when an opening arises the statute says request of the City democrac city Democratic Republican committee depending on the opening of the spot for a list of three. Nominees determined at a duly called meeting of your organization and put those forward for consideration that happened when Mr. Wildman. When his term was up placed with Bridget Alverson. And in this case, we are we are placing Teddy hunt who was the Republican I will differ with the president's spoken public participation in that I did informally ask the secretary of the Commonwealth's office elections division whether or not It was possible essentially to replace a republican with a Democrat or a Democrat with the Republican. They said no to be clear. That was not a an opinion of legal counsel for Secretary of State's office. But it that that is kind of the the scenario under which these things. unfold I will say this is no disrespect to the nominee the thing I find mostly baffling about that law is that it excludes unenrolled voters from serving as election Commissioners this in a commonwealth which has a reputation for being Democratic but is majority and a significant majority unenrolled voters and they are By law disenfranchised, they are not allowed with the exception of a city or town clerk. They're not allowed to participate in the process. That is what it is and perhaps their opportunities to change that but that is not the current state of the law and again with no disrespect to miss delillo. I would say I would also say this is an absolutely important position all the things that we do here, but this is obviously particularly given some of the things that have gone on in our country of the last several years, perhaps Questions are appropriate and I know from speaking to Ms. Delillo that she understands and expects that there will be questions. of her approach to the position and I think you'll know you should note. I'm sure you've already seen in her in her cover letter expressing interest. She very clearly stated that as a lawyer as an auditor and as a HR professional that has served almost all of her career, if not all In HR in human services, essentially, correct? that her professional reputation is beyond reproach and that you know anyone who is a lawyer even if they have practicing recognizes and takes an oath to

▶ 17:27 Speaker 1: uphold uphold the law

▶ 17:30 Paul Brodeur: It's a little has in fact served as a poll worker. Here in Melrose without conflict without any concerns expressed by either voters or the folks in the elections office or other volunteers that that conduct or watch over. Our elections and you know, that is the you know, that is the situation as before us. I obviously again a very sensitive to the concerns about voter Integrity based on my conversations with Mr. Lillo. I think she will serve in this role faithfully and impartially in the best interest of the city.

▶ 18:18 Maya Jamaleddine: Thank you mayor. Hello. I'd like to speak.

▶ 18:22 Speaker 6: Sure. Do I just make like an opening comment? Okay. Well, thank you for having me before you as the mayor said. I did work the last two elections in the polls. God to see how professionally run it is and enjoyed the experience. as when I talked to the mayor initially about this I said one I am retired lawyer, but a lawyer nonetheless and I run an HR department. I am the head of HR. I am tasked with making sure that all individuals that work in my organization regardless of their beliefs their values, whether they're Democrat Republican. It doesn't matter. I have to treat everybody objectively and I have to uphold all the laws that are involved with HR. If I'm appointed to this position, I'm going to uphold the laws and regulations as it relates to elections to ensure that we continue. To have Fair elections here in Melrose and that the voters are confident that the elections are run with integrity.

▶ 19:36 Maya Jamaleddine: We have any one like to ask any question.

▶ 19:46 Maya Jamaleddine: Okay, we have counselor mclarely.

▶ 19:50 Leila Migliorelli: Thank you madam. Chair. Thank you Mr. Mayor and thank you Mr. Willow for being here today. Um just curious. So what we I think as you know, there's been a lot of questions public comment and we've received a lot of questions. I think typically with most boarding commission appointments. We tend not to wait in to partisan politics. But whereas this position is a partisan political appointment. I think it's it's relevant and given that this forward position overseas local state and national elections and the scrutiny that we're under right now about our elections process. I think it's I think it's pertinent to ask some of these questions but first I just wanted to get a little bit sense of you, you know, in terms you've worked as a whole poll worker. Is there any sort of changes or things you'd like to see done differently improvements if you were to get this position on the board

▶ 20:50 Speaker 6: No, I think the only thing I had said after the first one was that. This was a simple one was that the direction of where people had to go vote because people were crossing over but you know to do two and then to say do I have recommendations? It's just I only did two and they were very very quiet elections.

▶ 21:11 Speaker 7: role in the Melrose

▶ 21:15 Leila Migliorelli: Republican party, which I believe is the chair of the Melrose Republican Party. Do you have there's a couple of lawsuits? I think pending right now in the state regarding elections. Do you support your party's lawsuit to stop in mail-in voting? That's something that we've adopted is that something and Melrose is embraced over the last since the pandemic has started

▶ 21:38 Speaker 6: your thoughts on that sure. I support a person's right to file a lawsuit and leave it up to the courts to decide. I don't believe that my my opinion of that. Matters, right? It's his opinion that he's taken before the court and he has the right to do that and I support that.

▶ 21:57 Speaker 7: Do you support the party's initiative to demand mandatory voter ID? I'm sorry to the do you support your party's initiative to demand mandatory voter ID.

▶ 22:09 Speaker 6: If I'm appointed to this position, I am going to uphold if there's if the regulations and the laws say that there's idea there isn't I am going to uphold those laws a regulations? Whatever is in

▶ 22:21 Speaker 7: place. And do you have any concerns about the 2020 election and how it was handled in Melrose or nationally?

▶ 22:29 Leila Migliorelli: Okay, the mayor I have a question for you. I just want to understand some of your comments about the Massachusetts General law and the statement.

▶ 22:40 Speaker 7: Right now currently who do we have on the board of registrars. We have obviously Bridget Alverson Democrat a

▶ 22:45 Paul Brodeur: Republican and an unroll.

▶ 22:49 Leila Migliorelli: So if you're saying that Secretary of State's office told you that whoever is holding whoever is In a position that vacates you have to appoint someone who was in so then Forever More in Melrose. We have two Republican. Members one Democrat on the on the

▶ 23:08 Paul Brodeur: board of registers. We have the potential to go to two Democrats because the the city clerk can be enrolled as long as this no majority, but that is and again I want to stress that they this was not a Talk to general counsel getting opinion. It was more. Here's the situation. I confront. Please tell me what you think that haven't even said I the conclusion you're coming to is. That's kind of dumb. Right? It doesn't make a heck of a lot of sense because being a situation where Republican registration in Melrose, and I think Statewide is about nine percent, but they get 50% of the Spots on this board now I'd say that doesn't make sense except that to me. It also doesn't make a damn bit of sense again that unenrolled people that are the majority cancer at all and these positions so sometimes

▶ 24:09 Speaker 1: You know it. Common Sense doesn't apply I guess I would say.

▶ 24:14 Leila Migliorelli: Yeah, I guess I would be interested to know given like you said I think Melrose is about 8% Republican voters.

▶ 24:21 Speaker 7: such a misalignment with the representation of

▶ 24:27 Speaker 7: Voters and Melrose on the board of registrars I think

▶ 24:32 Leila Migliorelli: You know while I understand serving as a lawyer and HR professional you're you know bound to following rules, but I mean, I think there's also plenty of examples of lawyers and other HR professionals who are not or who ignore rules. So I mean while that table but I understand. Yeah, I went into salt any lawyers in the room currently. Um, but I just I think that that's something to just be mindful of and point out that you know, given that the Republican Party in the state has been very vocal on certain aspects of what we consider to be part of the democratic process, you know, it's just something to be noted and considered but I'll let my fellow committee members ask more additional questions. Thank you madam chair, thank you

▶ 25:16 Speaker 4: else would like

▶ 25:19 Maya Jamaleddine: so you're avoiding member. So I would like to go with you first concerti.

▶ 25:27 Manjula Karamcheti: And thank you so much for being here and for your interest related to the fact that you are the chair of the Melrose Republican party and are interested in the board of registrars. Can you speak to how you'll balance? Be having those two roles in the city and what you see is potential conflicts and how you might negotiate those.

▶ 25:54 Speaker 6: So first, I would step down from the chair so I won't be chair. Okay, we have a meeting Wednesday depending on how this goes that we would. Change the chair so I won't be chair anymore. so so that aside, you know, if you're talking I think what was the second part? I'm

▶ 26:14 Manjula Karamcheti: sorry. Well, just what it conflicts you anticipate sort of having those two sort of roles in the city. And even if you're stepping down, you'll still be a member of the committee and I think other counselors have perhaps alluded to differences in regards to How We Do voting in Melrose and the Republican Party stance on voting those are in Conflict so you might find yourself in Conflict as well, so I'm curious just how you'll navigate that how you'll negotiate that personally and professionally sure so I

▶ 26:49 Speaker 6: as I said to the mayor when I talk to him is every day when I walk in the door of a nonprofit Human Services Agency, I know that My beliefs are different than probably 95% of the people there right? I know that. And I know how to leave that out the door. I have to it's it's my role. It's my job if I'm appointed. That's it's like a job. Well, I guess it is a job right in that. what I personally believe Does not supersede what are the laws and regulations and the way the elections need to be run and what the city of Melrose policies are around it all of that. My personal beliefs don't supersede those. And so I will uphold. The laws the regulations the policies around how the voting should happen here. You know, I worked the two poles. Whether I think there should be voter idea or there shouldn't somebody tried to show me their ID and I said, no. I don't need to see that. Because that's that's how we are here. So. I don't think for me it won't be a conflict.

▶ 27:59 Manjula Karamcheti: Okay, just sort of in addition to that, you know. We received a lot of letters and I definitely in word one received a lot of phone calls of people who are very concerned who had a variety of questions. and you know just kind of digging a little deeper on the Will you continue to support a lot of the Republican parties agenda in terms of voter ID and those kinds of things outside of your role? Working for the for the registrar. So what I'll

▶ 28:40 Speaker 6: say, I'm a republican. I have Republican values. I am not. out there collecting signatures campaigning. I'm not doing that right? I'm not but you're you're you have a republican before you. I'm going to support Republican candidates like your democratic. Nominee that you just appointed supports Democratic candidates right in Democratic Values, but I'm not you don't see me outside Shaw's with signature pages and you don't I'm not in the newspapers. I'm not on the news. I'm not I'm not doing that. But you have a republican before you who supports Republican values, but I don't take it to work with me. I don't I can't I can't I would never ever be able to do my job. And do it well. If I did and if this is sort of like a job interview, I wish I could give you references to call. And you would hear that I don't.

▶ 29:41 Paul Brodeur: I'm not sure if this is is relevant to helpful, but I can tell you that Ms. Delillo has worked for candidates against me and I am comfortable putting her name forward today.

▶ 29:56 Speaker 8: No further questions.

▶ 29:58 Maya Jamaleddine: Thank you. Anyone else from the voting members would like to ask any question. Okay, we can go to counselor Craig writers for questions. Thank you madam chair

▶ 30:11 Jen Grigoraitis: and thank you mayor broader Ms. Delillo for being here. I just had a quick a few follow-up questions. First to Mayor Broder. I guess a suggestion that I would really appreciate the city when whenever we have the time seeking of formal legal opinion from the Secretary of State's office. I feel like there is a huge missed opportunity. We have 19,000 registered voters in this community and only 1600 are registered Republicans. So we really are perpetually disenfranchising huge group of our residents from being able to serve in such an important body. So I would love to see us move forward with that for whenever someone else steps down. I've already have been

▶ 30:47 Paul Brodeur: in think I've been communication with the delegation and at least the house chair of election laws to at least begin the conversation or just point out the What seems to be a little bit of an irrationality in the system? I'm not going to Embellish the amount of interest that was expressed back about addressing the problem, but I do think it's something that we can.

▶ 31:13 Jen Grigoraitis: Continue to push on. Thank you. And then miss Delilah. I know you when we were talking about the lawsuit that's currently appending and now apparently headed to the SJC regarding the mail-in voting. I know you said that Mr. Lines is entitled to do that as a private citizen. Unless the Press is grossly miscalculating. What's happening? I don't think he's filing it as a private citizen. He's filing it as the chair of the Republican state party. So I guess that again raises the question for me and it's certainly your purview to choose to keep your politics private. But if you are supportive of that lawsuit as the current chair of the Melrose Republican City committee being filed by the state Republican party leader.

▶ 31:56 Speaker 6: So I didn't say why I said I support any citizen having the right to file and on behalf of whoever whoever they're filing on behalf of so as the chair of Mast GOP. He has absolutely has the right to file right if he believes that there is something wrong and the courts get to vote on that and so whether I believe in the lawsuit or not, I believe that he has the ability and and I support the ability of anyone to be able to do that. So is

▶ 32:22 Jen Grigoraitis: it your preference to not disclose whether or not you support the lawsuit? That's the correct. I completely understand and I appreciate the very well versed lawyer response about that. He has the ability to file. I understand that. I just wanted to know if you and I know there's a difference within this body about people who are very kind of out in there politics and who they vote for and who they don't and those that aren't so I just kind of wanted to get a sense of you because I do think this is a very public role but I think also given the

▶ 32:52 Speaker 6: current climate we live in a very political role, right? So again, I'm going to say you have a republican before You who supports Republican values again? I am not out in the streets parading around. I'm not screaming at the top of my lungs that there's no male in voting that illegal shouldn't have lie. I'm not out there doing that. I don't one it affects my job. I can't be in the newspapers are out there doing that. It affects the job that I do every day in human services dealing with staff. So I don't do that, but I have as a republican. I support the Republican values but as far as that law, so I just support people being able to go and file if they believe there's a wrong.

▶ 33:37 Speaker 8: Thank you for the questions. Thank you. Consider

▶ 33:39 Maya Jamaleddine: Eccles.

▶ 33:42 Jack Eccles: Thank you madam chair. Thank you Mr. Broder for being here. I'm non-voting member of this committee. I'm sometimes, you know your values can manifest themselves as you vote on the board of registrar. So I guess my only question is if you were given the opportunity to expand early or mail and voting if that were to for some reason come before the board of registrar is usually handled by the state. Would you be supportive of that or would you not

▶ 34:07 Speaker 6: I can't answer that here. I'd have to see what that looked like. To just say let's expand it and then and say yeah, I'd support that without without saying are their rule what are the rules around that how are we going to handle it? What's it gonna look like so I couldn't say yes or no until I actually like voting right? You have to see the everything that's on the ballot. You have to read it. I would have to read it and understand it in order to know whether I would support or not so I can't say yes or no to that because it would depend on what what it entailed.

▶ 34:43 Speaker 3: Okay. Thanks.

▶ 34:45 Speaker 4: Thank you. I'll go

▶ 34:50 Mark Garipay: to chair and carepe. Thank you. I'd make a motion to recommend this sort of the full Council for passage at this time second.

▶ 34:56 Maya Jamaleddine: We have emotion made by counselor. Garipay face seconded by Vice Chair by President sonala on discussion. We have counselor. Cam Shady Yeah, just

▶ 35:09 Manjula Karamcheti: something that I'm thinking about regarding this. You know, I'm a Democrat I support some democratic values others. I don't you know, so I think it's very hard to speak about our parties values generally. So I'm a little concerned by that answer my dad's a republican so I know sort of what he supports in some ways and I know what he supports in other ways. So I I have a hard time with generalizations and I think for me something I'm thinking about there's one thing to be a Republican and another thing to be in a leadership position in a party and I think whether you're very vocal outwardly in the city or whether you're quieter about it in Ever your beliefs are when you're in a leadership role. You're definitely promoting something you're pushing something forward. So I'd I have questions about that that I'd be interested in learning more about.

▶ 36:15 Leila Migliorelli: You counselor maguirelli. I just wanted to Echo counselor. Karmchety's comment as well. Right that there is no one type of Republican no one type of democrat and so to say, you know for asking questions about mail-in early voting for asking questions about mandatory voter ID for asking questions about, you know, the validity of Elections and you know your stance on that as a republican, there's people in the Republican party you have different stances on that. So I think that's a little bit it's a little bit different than to just say that as you know counselor Karm Cheney said too that's same would go for you know a Democrat as well.

▶ 36:56 Speaker 6: Yeah. Oh, I can't I don't know. Yeah, okay,

▶ 36:59 Speaker 9: so

▶ 37:02 Speaker 6: What I'll say to that is. Does it matter? Because there are laws. There are regulations. That we all that we have to abide by. If if it comes down that there is voter ID or not voter ID or this male in voting there's not male in voting. There's mail-in voting does it matter what I support today? If the law says there's mail-in voting and I say I'm going to uphold the law. Does it matter if there's no voter ID today and I say I'm going to uphold the law. What does it matter whether I support that or not? Right? I told you when I worked the polls. Somebody came show me their ID and I said no you don't need to show that because I'm going to uphold the law. so and what I saw in Melrose It doesn't seem that one person me one person. Could have that great of an influence over what happens in Melrose. But again if it's the law. that my opinion shouldn't matter because I'm going to uphold the law. And there are three other people on that board. that if I have and I don't know. I don't know, you know if someone comes before the board, but I guess I don't I don't understand for me. I understand people want me the answers to the questions but my opinion. Doesn't outweigh what the laws and the regulations and the policies and how we handle elections. it doesn't because there's already things in place and if they change fine Fine, if if the steak comes down this mailing voting is going to happen all the time. No voter ID ever fine. That's fine because I'm gonna uphold those laws. and those regulations

▶ 39:01 Maya Jamaleddine: Anyone else on discussion counselor McMaster?

▶ 39:05 Shawn M. MacMaster: Thank you madam. Chair good evening, Mr. Bill. Thank you for being here. I want to ask more of a practical question since voter suppression the topic of voter suppression came up this evening if you were on the board and they're leading up to the election was something that came to your attention in the community that may lead to voter suppression prior to the election day. What if any rule do you think you may be able to play and addressing that to ensure that those who may be targeted by that effort have access to the polls and feel comfortable going and voting at the polls?

▶ 39:44 Speaker 6: so I guess without having specifics around it if it was a concern I would bring it to the board to have a discussion on how How we would make sure that whatever it is, right? That's a very general kind of scenario. But if it's a concern we discuss it as a board and come to a decision on how we're going to how we're going to fix it or help it or you know, make sure people have the ability to do what they have a right to do. So, I absolutely I would bring it to the board.

▶ 40:15 Maya Jamaleddine: Okay. Thank you. Thank you anyone else on discussion? I actually do have a question and comment. I wanted to thank all my colleagues for asking their questions. They did ask majority of the questions that I would like to ask. I wanted to also let you know that we have received several emails from the public that is now attached to the order and part of public comment public record. Those emails are sharing same concerns. As Mr. Bennett, so I would like to emphasize on the importance of this role. I do understand that you are not out campaigning you have repeated several times and I appreciate that. You're not out campaigning but you have been serving as the chair of the Republican committee and working from Grassroots to apply those values and push it through and we all know as politicians and as you know. Citizens how we can make sure that those values and those beliefs are, you know, can we can spread it whether publicly or behind the scene? So I have seen you in other events and in other meetings and how you know, and I I actually respect that how much you are. You're holding tight to those values and you're you want it to apply it so. I do have similar concerns once you are in this position. and you get the opportunity probably to to to apply those values that you are holding tight to it. How much this would be as a conflict? I also wanted to ask you one more time. If you do believe and accept that results of the previous election.

▶ 42:16 Speaker 6: soccer because the double questions for me because I'm like just trying to take it all in is so yes. President Biden is President Biden

▶ 42:25 Speaker 10: So, okay.

▶ 42:28 Speaker 6: The first this is why I got the second part. The first was because you leading up to the first what was the first question so

▶ 42:36 Maya Jamaleddine: I I wanted to know if you got the opportunity in this no, right?

▶ 42:42 Speaker 6: Okay. so maybe maybe I don't understand the role as I think I do. Because again, it's a board like this is a board. I don't. I don't understand. I guess how my how I could push my personal beliefs. onto a board and push that board to make I'm one person. I'm one person right? I don't understand that. So maybe I don't understand. As much as I thought I did about how this board works. but I'm going to look at I'm a data person as well. I'm going to look at data. I'm gonna look at information. I'm gonna listen I'm gonna listen objectively. I'm going to have hopefully critical thinking critical thinking conversations around it. And as a board the board makes the decision not Julie delillo making the decision. I'm not the one if if you're giving me that much power and that's what I feel like you think I have that much power to sway aboard. Or to sway the elections office or to sway the city clerk. I don't I first of all I don't want that much power, but I just I don't understand how I would have that ability right? I'm gonna I'm gonna be objective. I'm gonna be fair. I'm gonna listen to all sides. I do it every day every day. I listen to all sides of situations at work. I'm going to listen to all sides. I'm going to express my views respectfully professionally. I'm not going to I don't push. But I'm going to express my views. Again, respectfully and professionally, that's how I operate. and as a board as a board that decision gets made. It isn't me making that decision unless I misunderstand how this board operates. but so so for I guess. whether I whether I Think that the 2020 election was fraudulent whatever. Those are when I come to this this appointment. I'm coming to the city of Melrose because I live here. Some of you know, I've done a lot in this city for different things. I like to support the city. I want to support the citizens. I want them to feel like they can come to the elections. It's not like the registry right? We're good. It's good. It's fine. Not fun. But you know that that it's fair that it's run with Integrity, which it is that I've worked the polls. It is I wouldn't I don't want to change that. I think this the the Melrose does a good job. I don't want to change that. I'm not coming here. I wouldn't put my name in because I think me. I don't have that that power that. You know perception that I'm all that grand that I'm going to come in here and I'm going to change this. That's not what I want to do. I want to serve. I want to help it's important. It's important to the citizens. It's important to me, but believe me. I don't want the power to change and push change on the city of Melrose Elections office.

▶ 46:24 Maya Jamaleddine: Thank you. One more question. You you said when you if you would have given this position and based on today's results. You're gonna step down from your role now on the Republican committee. So do you feel your role on the Republican committee? Do you feel you're neural would be more beneficial or what? Is it? That's going to give you more from your current role on the Republican committee.

▶ 47:02 Speaker 6: What's going to give me more? Yeah, like what is it that

▶ 47:04 Maya Jamaleddine: would give in very important role and you know, I believe Anyone wanted to serve their party. This is a good. Place to serve right? So you're giving this way to serve on the board of registrar. What is it that You you feel that you can accomplish.

▶ 47:29 Speaker 6: By giving it away.

▶ 47:31 Speaker 4: Yeah.

▶ 47:33 Speaker 6: Somebody else can come in fresh ideas new ideas. They probably will do it better. I think most people here probably realize the Melrose City the Republican City committee. We're not huge Lee active in the community. We're not it's a very small committee. Again, you are attributing a lot of power to a very very very small group of people. We're not out there. We're working. We're all working every day. We're working. We have families like everybody in this room. So somebody else takes it on but again. We're a small committee. We're not out there. Change in Melrose. We're not oh, no, this is I don't

▶ 48:20 Maya Jamaleddine: think that this is what I meant to say what I meant to say that you feel that your role on the board of registrar. This is what you feel is the next step for you

▶ 48:34 Speaker 6: rather. Oh, sorry. Yes. Sorry. Sorry. Yes, I feel it's important. It's an important role. It's of interest to me both from my legal side and and my HR side, but because it's a lot of people that come through. But it's intriguing. It's interesting. I like to work in the polls. So yes this would this is important to me.

▶ 49:02 Maya Jamaleddine: So we're taking it backward today. I just did not read for the public the order which is order 2022-152 appointment of July 13 Circuit Street to the board of registrars of Voters for three year terms that turn to expire on the last day of February 2025. We do have a motion on the floor and I wanted to ask the circular if you can.

▶ 49:34 Speaker 5: Vice chair Garipay Yes. counselor mcderly

▶ 49:40 Speaker 6: Yes.

▶ 49:42 Speaker 5: Counselor Carm Shady. No

▶ 49:47 Speaker 5: counselor bremski. Yes. President sonella. Yes. and chairman Dean no

▶ 50:01 Speaker 5: four. Yes two knows.

▶ 50:05 Speaker 4: Okay. Thank you.