ORDER-2023-27 : Authorization of a Bond in the amount of $1,460,177.00 to pay for costs of replacing the roof at the Horace Mann Elementary School, Fund #3392

Transcript (~38 min @ 8:10)

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▶ 8:03 Jen Grigoraitis: Thank you. And at this time I will motion by unanimous consent to close public comment. Seeing no objection public comment is now closed. We have five orders and one Grant before us tonight and just for some housekeeping in advance. We do have to gavel into health education and Welfare at 8:15 this evening. So first up we have ordered 2023-27 authorization of a bond in the amount of 1 million 460,177 to pay for costs of replacing the roof at the Horace Mann Elementary School fun number 3392 offered by mayor Broder and I believe we have Do these gaffy and some guests here? So while you're getting set up I'll entertain a motion to suspend the rules so we can hear from the administration so move. Second so we have emotions to spend the rules made by President sinellas seconded by counselor Eckles all in favor any opposed. All right, the rules are now suspended. Good evening, and if you can all just quickly introduce yourselves.

▶ 9:04 Denise Gaffey: Good evening. My name is Denise Gaffney. I'm the director of planning and Community Development and I will introduce on my immediate right John. Limo who is the owners project manager for this CM the roof replacement projects at the Hoover in Horace Mann schools and Matt Zurich who is our project engineer with Ty and bond John is with for text. If I didn't mention that so in the room tonight, we have Patrick De La Russo the cities CFO and Catherine Amada our city treasure and just pointing them out in case we have questions later about the bond mechanism or anything around that. So thank you for letting us present this evening. I'm actually going to speak about the first two orders and kind of combine my comments about them because they are related 27 is the funding authorization for Horace Mann through the accelerated repair program and 28 is the funding authorization for the Hoover roof replacement project. So in just in terms of a little bit of brief history, I think most of you are familiar with these projects by now. We were first here. I was first here back in May of 2020 when we indicated interest in applying to the Massachusetts school building authority through a statement of Interest process for funding through the accelerated repair program, which is a program. That we have worked with in the past. We're very familiar with it. And it's a program that the msba has created in order to fund systems type of work specifically related to roofs windows or hva systems in school buildings that can extend the longevity of a school building that is otherwise in good repair but needs attention for specific systems. We did use this program several years back at the Hoover School for the replacement of the windows and the the door entry there. So that was a very successful program. So we we were aware of the the deteriorated condition of the roofs at the Hoover School and the Horace Mann schools, and we thought this was be a great mechanism to get about, you know, about 49% almost 50% on the dollar in grant funding from the state to replace the roofs. So we came to this board Back in May 2021. We got your support to submit the statement of interest to the mspa. We heard from the msba later in 2021 that they were inviting us to to the next stage in the process. It's a multi-stage process with the mspa through this program. So the next stage involved preparing a feasibility study or schematic design level plans for the roof Replacements at the two schools. So we were back here in February of this year to ask for the funding to to do the to do that level of design the feasibility study and the schematic design for the two projects. And so once after we were after we submitted the we received the funding for the for the design work msba assigned us the project team. So that brought us in contact with John and with Matt and then they began to do the work over the past several months to to investigate the conditions of the roofs and also develop the the design and Engineering plans. Those schematic design level plans were submitted to mspa. And for their August meeting this most recent August and we found out soon after that. They were inviting us into the process. So that's kind of some of the history of how we're getting to where we are today. The accelerated repair program is a very competitive program. They don't award to all of the projects that submit by any means and you have to meet certain thresholds in order to to receive funding so we're pleased that Were invited to get to this point in our next stage. Our next hurdle here is to get the funding authorization for the full cost of these two projects. So the funding language that's in front of you is language that is dictated by the mspa. This is very similar language essentially the same language we have used in the past when we've worked with the msba, but they do require that the city authorized the full amount of the funding for the project and they indicate in the language that there is we will get a percent reimbursement based on the percent that they assign to to us as a as a municipality. And right now that percentage is 49.31 percent. So that's the percent reimbursement of eligible costs that we will receive from the msba on our projects if we are a successful in getting the funding authorization from the council. Through this process. So we're really excited to get to this point. We are kind of ready to bid the project and get a roofing contractor under contract for both of these buildings. We would like to line up contractor by the end of this year so that we can take advantage of quiet time in their schedule and their starting to put some projects on the books for the summer. We want to do this work during the summer to minimize the disruption to the schools. So by bidding it this December we think we will have the best opportunity to line up get competitive pricing hopefully and line up contractors for the summer and also take advantage of any early any items that might have some lead times that we want to that need to get, you know purchased earlier. In this process so so it in some the the deficiencies and the roofs in both of these buildings are very well documented. These projects are both they both rank very highly on the the city's Capital Improvement plan. the new roofs will improve the comfort in the building and they will be Often will optimize Energy Efficiency, they'll be they'll be designed around the stretch energy code. We will also have an opportunity through the completion of these roof projects to install solar panels. We've had that investigated through this schematic design process and the roofs that both of the buildings can support solar panels. So Martha Grover's already begun work to reach out with providers to to lay the groundwork for project purchasing agreement for both of these projects. Should this go forward so we are hopeful to have your support and here to answer any questions that you might have.

▶ 16:18 Jen Grigoraitis: Thank you. Are there any questions from counselors counselor Williams? Thank you.

▶ 16:23 Ryan Williams: When was the roof at Hoover last replaced?

▶ 16:27 Denise Gaffey: That's it. That is great question. We it's hard to find that documentation. Exactly. So sometime

▶ 16:34 Ryan Williams: after 1964. Yeah. I mean we

▶ 16:36 Denise Gaffey: have we felt very confident that we met the 29 years threshold that have to be at least 29 years old in order to To meet the criteria for this program. We did find some evidence. There's also some the difference different roofs because there's so many different levels of roofing on these buildings. Some of them were done in different times. So it was hard to find a really like a simple answer to that question, but we know they're at least 30 35 years old. And we know from the deteriorated condition that they're very old and the leaks that are that are that are you know that are well documented where the leaks?

▶ 17:19 Ryan Williams: Does the age of the roof account for some of the additional cost for Hoover versus Horace manner? Is it all about square footage?

▶ 17:28 Denise Gaffey: It's about square footage. That's right. It's largely

▶ 17:30 Ryan Williams: square footage. Yeah. Okay. Wonderful. Yeah the solar obviously a pricey up front, you know. proposition but with some power purchase agreements you Have that reduced really steeply and a lot of full sun at Hoover son all day long, so that would be very cool. Great to see this moving forward. Thank you. I'm no questions.

▶ 17:54 Maya Jamaleddine: Counselor gemaldine. Thank you. Thank you for being with us tonight. So the total of the bond would be about three million 766 for both schools right for both schools, and it's 5% that

▶ 18:14 Maya Jamaleddine: The lament also for for both, right?

▶ 18:20 Maya Jamaleddine: so my question I guess is

▶ 18:27 Maya Jamaleddine: so I so the project would be worked on at the same time for both schools. Yes, and and are we expecting that will be done at the same time or yes.

▶ 18:39 Denise Gaffey: We are plan is to have these completed in the summer of 2023 and very embarrassment

▶ 18:44 Maya Jamaleddine: is if we get that they

▶ 18:48 Denise Gaffey: will reimburse us as we go. Okay. This project works. We submit invoices like on a monthly basis and then they reimburse

▶ 18:57 Maya Jamaleddine: So, can you explain to me how that works? So we are gonna pay.

▶ 19:04 Denise Gaffey: Toward like so you're authorizing the full amount because that's just they they require.

▶ 19:11 Speaker 1: They they require that the mspa doesn't want you to get in a situation where let's use 50% as the number. If you three million, you're only going to really end up paying 1.5. They don't want you to Play that you play your cash flow because what happens if a payment doesn't come back in time from them and you only borrowed a million and a half so they want you to authorize the full three million, okay? knowing that however, at the end of the job you will get reimbursement back totaling that but they want you to have the full authorization so that whatever cash requirements the city may have you have the ability to pay those bills you could end up paying, you know, let's say the mspa was slow on the process of repayment. You still have to pay the contractor got all those bills, but they will come back to you. But by

▶ 20:01 Maya Jamaleddine: the end of the project, we're gonna have the money back. Yeah, the

▶ 20:04 Speaker 1: mspa will pay you up to 95% of your Grant. And then they hold the final five percent. Okay. So in this case if we're using three million You know in the grant is 1.5 million, you know, the last 75,000 they will hold until all the clothes out paperwork is submitted all the commissioning paperwork, you know change orders are all been calculated all of that and then they will send you that final check once it's probably six to eight months after the job is completed. The audit is done with the city's accounting department, you know guys eyes are dotted teaser crossed then they send the final payment.

▶ 20:46 Maya Jamaleddine: Perfect. And what is the risk or what are the risks to lose the reimbursement? So what is it that you we're gonna have to be very cautious about to avoid losing if there is any

▶ 20:59 Denise Gaffey: risk. Well, there's there's no risk that they're not going to reimburse us at this point, but there is as long as we get the funding authorization, okay?

▶ 21:08 Speaker 1: The only risk is that if by some chance? Costs are way out of whack. With this with the estimate that's here, but the you know, the firm that Matt's company uses they've done this before we've done a bunch of these. These are conservative numbers in here our hope is that on bid day. Yeah, we come in under I mean and that's the that's what you always planned because coming back to a room like this is not it's not comfortable or it's you just can't do it. It just it ruins the timing of everything. So we hope that you know, the experience the shared experience the mspa reviews that it's within the pricing that they've seen on other projects that's part of their saying yes, if they saw a problem with the prices they would also raise their hand and say time out. We've got 10 others of these in here right now at significantly different numbers. So we have baked some of that risk into this. That's really the as far as projects go. These are They've done a bunch of these. Okay, we've done almost we've done over three dozen ourselves as a firm, you know combined and it's that's where the word accelerated comes from because they they are easier in the skin in the you know the realm of You know, what mspa does.

▶ 22:27 Maya Jamaleddine: Perfect. Thank you. We're looking forward to you know, I know this is way over to project for both schools. So thank you so much for working on that.

▶ 22:37 Jen Grigoraitis: Vice chairmengliarelli

▶ 22:39 Leila Migliorelli: Thank you madam chair and thank you for being here tonight. This my questions are maybe more for Patrick but is the interest rate or Catherine is interest rate locked.

▶ 22:50 Speaker 4: Do we have a lock on the interest rate or is it is it a chance that it would go up?

▶ 22:58 Jen Grigoraitis: Can we just move to the microphone? Because otherwise, you're caught me. Your response isn't being captured for anyone watching remotely. Thank you.

▶ 23:09 Speaker 4: The interest rate that shown in the schedule is an estimate of what we would get when we go to market I checked with Hilltop today. And they still think it's a very conservative estimate based on what they've seen in the market. There hasn't been much issuance of double A plus 30 years lately the last one they saw that was comparable. Was right before the last fed move late October and it was I think they came in at four four and a half for 25 year. Okay, so they think that they've played in some room That's a good estimate. What would be the point in time? So if let's say we authorize the bond would it then be you would be Getting that all finalized now. So like what's the what's the period of time between now and when you would have the rate locked in? Oh, well we would have to do all of the offering documents usually takes about four or five weeks. To get all the offering documents they go out to bid, okay. and the best bid takes the position. Okay, so you're figuring that you're feeling pretty confident that this this rate I spoke with them today and they were confident that this was still a conservative estimate that um when we're reimbursed For the grant money. Where does that money go in the city budget?

▶ 24:42 Speaker 5: Was out I may add one of the points here. Typically, can

▶ 24:49 Jen Grigoraitis: you just repeat yourself so that the entirety of the response is getting captured for the yeah recording. Thank you. Good evening.

▶ 24:54 Speaker 5: Typically what happens is that to build on what Catherine was saying they give us an estimate. So we have something to to work with the 5.5% What happens is as equal to the project itself and as we use other funding sources to even lower the amount that we want to bond when you go to market when you're ready to go to Mark which means you're ready to Bonded permanently at that point. The interest rate will be Basically acid change when they go out to bid, they'll put it out to bid to different institutions. You generally get about Five or six billions to produce is actually good. And then that's when it gets locked in but the weight until the project really is completed. So what you doing in the interim you get you're taking that money and you're authorizing it 2.3 million, whatever the case may be and then yes, she is not going to be that it'll be less than that. And typically what we do is if is additional funds that remain at the end of the project will can actually reduce the bonding authorization itself on record. So that would shows that we didn't bond the full 2.3 only say one million, for example, only what you actually Bond their eyes the end of the day, but we need the structure now because mspa requires

▶ 26:12 Speaker 4: that format. Okay, that's helpful. I guess my question is more when we the reimbursement the money from the

▶ 26:18 Leila Migliorelli: the school building authority. So the grant when that comes into the city, so we're paying up front all the costs and then we get reimbursed as we go along minus that five percent that comes in at the end when they pay us back where which

▶ 26:32 Speaker 5: city account does that go to you go to the project fund itself the project if I'm okay so offset, obviously, that's what we want to maintain the revenue being any other offsets to that Revenue. So we have it basically locked in one account. Okay. So

▶ 26:46 Speaker 4: yeah. Okay. So the capital project account. That's what it says. Okay.

▶ 26:51 Leila Migliorelli: And then just generally so this just for people at home the this 5% debt limit attachment. So this is a sort of like analysis of where we're at if we're incorporating bonding this for the total amount for both of these projects. This is what it will look like in the impact on our debt service. Yeah, great question.

▶ 27:11 Speaker 5: We use the 5.5% victims unless terrific. It's less of a cost to the city, but we always belong to the full top number so you can actually see what the worst case scenario could be if I find and so

▶ 27:27 Speaker 4: that's all reflected in this chart whole thing everything that's

▶ 27:30 Speaker 5: been authorized and everything. That's it's actually in the model is in that job, okay?

▶ 27:39 Speaker 2: also get

▶ 27:41 Mark Garipay: thank you. I think this question for Denise more around the schedule of this of this project.

▶ 27:49 Mark Garipay: The invention that you want to put the project out forbid the end of December. Can you we actually went out of the year? I should say we haven't put out

▶ 27:57 Denise Gaffey: sooner than that. Yeah, we're we're pretty much ready the plans are ready to go. So travel ready. We're waiting for the yeah, I guess it is shovel ready. We're waiting for the funding authorization. Okay, and

▶ 28:09 Mark Garipay: then what's the timetable after that? So after

▶ 28:15 Denise Gaffey: it goes out good. It's about a form of four week process to bid the project. We place the notice in the central register. It gets picked up by bitters. That we have a it's a two-bid process where we have sub contractors to just bid first and then those numbers come in and then the GC bids come in. So we're hoping by mid December. We will have the bid numbers in place and then we'll do our due diligence in terms of checking references and things of that nature and making sure they can provide us with all the certifications that we require for this project and you know, if that all comes through by the end of the year, we could have a contract in place.

▶ 28:57 Mark Garipay: What is the Missouri contingency in this potential? Yes proposal? Yes, we

▶ 29:02 Denise Gaffey: have we're carrying 5% contingency construction contingency for both.

▶ 29:08 Speaker 3: Do you see any?

▶ 29:11 Mark Garipay: Potential obstacles with getting contractors to bid on a project like this. I know with the library we had to put it on a couple times. So do you foresee that any issues with any any contractors? Well, we can get this project. I just

▶ 29:25 Denise Gaffey: want to clarify we didn't put the library out a couple of times but we we did only get two bidders for the library. So we're hoping to get more we're hoping because we're bidding it at a time when they're not very busy and they haven't quite filled their schedule yet for the summer. I mean you guys might be able to speak better to that then I can.

▶ 29:44 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I think this is the right time of year to be by bidding roof projects. You know, we had when we first started on the project. We were a little concerned because insulation as an example roof insulation was a bear to get that's gotten better as the project design has gone along and now like to say timing is back to normal, but we figured bidding now awarding sometime in December gives the contractor six months to acquire the insulation that they'll need so that come June. 23rd, you know around that date when the kids are out the door the roof starts coming off and we already have you know materials procured for that rubber roofing was hard to get to but that's come back as well. So right now in in Denise had the and the opportunity to speak to one of the roofers who's also a you know, who bids Municipal work and they said they're seeing similar things and that was really great for us to hear someone who's working for the city right now said yeah things now's a good time. It doesn't mean it can't change. But all we can do is you know, what we what we know right now. So you feel comfortable.

▶ 30:56 Mark Garipay: With this estimate that raw materials

▶ 31:01 Speaker 1: are kind of level one off and one of them. Yeah. In fact, it's a great question. We you know the city authorized math to keep going on the project after the schematic design was submitted. We had a subsequent estimate done and the price has come down a little bit on both projects with regards to the roofing itself. We also saw some savings on the course man, because there was some structural things that we ended up not having to do that. We had estimated would need to be done at first so between the two projects there's some savings Beyond these numbers already which makes us think okay great if the estimators are taking the number down a little bit And we always know that that number the number of the estimators give us. Is the number that on bid day? Seven people bid the job. The estimate is the number right in the middle. We never want to plan and budget a project on the low because you'll get burned. You never want to plant it on the high because no project will ever get approved by a you know, by committee such as yourself. So it kind of go right for that middle number. And so we feel pretty good based on those those points that we're in a good place good time right now. for these numbers

▶ 32:10 Mark Garipay: and you may have said this and I may have missed it, but When they start doing the project ripping the roof officer. That we think that there's no structural issues underneath there. I mean we were kind of ran into that at Memorial Hall. I think when we kind of got into it a

▶ 32:28 Speaker 1: little bit more on that speak to what they looked at in the design. Yeah, they both of these roofs have metal decking underneath and we we believe at this point. They're all in good condition. There is some contingency in here for some metal decking repairs if needed. I think it's about five percent of the roof if needed can be repaired. But at this point we believe that it's in decent shape. Just to be just to clarify that includes that's we have contingency outside of the construction cost and we have money built within unit prices. Basically, we're going to tell the bidders to carry x amount of square foot of metal deck replacement and if in the end they find none that's a credit back to the city at the end of the project if they do find it, you know, it's up to that amount and if they find more we already have the price locked in on bid day, so we know what that's gonna cost us.

▶ 33:20 Mark Garipay: Start to finish you think of this can get done over the summer without. Before school starts. Yes all both of these projects. We're building

▶ 33:27 Speaker 1: them seperately. They're not being bit as one project that being bit is two separate doesn't mean one bitter might not be successful and when them both but that's that's up to a bidder but the requirements and the front end will be, you know start when the kids get out and we we have to nail down the specific date, but usually when staff comes back you want it done by and I think both are but it's that's a reasonable for both of these projects. Can the

▶ 33:53 Mark Garipay: buildings be occupied over the summer while this construction is going on. Do we use that at all for camps or any some school or well that

▶ 34:02 Denise Gaffey: pose? I don't think we do use either one of those schools for the summer.

▶ 34:08 Mark Garipay: Those are all my questions need to be done. I support the order. Just wanted to make sure that the timeline you can try to keep to that. I think it's important.

▶ 34:19 Jen Grigoraitis: So next up we have counselor Eccles and then counselor Stewart and then if no one else councilor Williams for the second time, so, I'm sorry.

▶ 34:25 Jack Eccles: Thank you manager. I've two quick questions for Mr. Della Russo if you wouldn't mind coming back.

▶ 34:39 Jack Eccles: Hey just as a follow up to something that came up when in a vice chair. Miggly early's questions. You mentioned that sometimes you use other funding sources to decrease the amount that we attempt to get in. The bond is that since you're theoretically going to be doing that four or five weeks from next Monday. Have you thought about that at all for this and if so, where would that come from?

▶ 35:06 Speaker 5: Right now I don't have anything more to build on that. But if you look at the library, for example, when you authorize the full amount and if you had additional funds from offer some other onion sauce that reduced the amount you're gonna Bond it's exactly it's kind of thing. We would look for here. And again, if should this get approved this evening, we'll look and see what we if there's any opportunity to just that that's a great question. It's always good to look. Yeah, I think it would

▶ 35:34 Jack Eccles: be valuable sometimes for the council to understand what the Delta is based on. You know, what we've authorized and then what you actually put out absolutely and then just that that 5% limit. That looks like it's two and a half and then a little bit as it increases throughout the years that just your projected new growth.

▶ 35:54 Speaker 5: There as it the well we do is we take the operating budget itself. We do 5% of the non-exempt debt. So anything that's exempt the Middle School. It has a separate funding source, so it doesn't play the same. It's not in the same finding Arena as this debt is here this evening. And then we take 5% of the operating budget for the year to that's our cap. If you want to say find a nickel on every dollar is the cap that will set aside for debt every year as the maximum. When we set the program out in front of you if you look on the thigh right hand column the two shots. The first page will show you how close we are after the finance and based upon the projected debt, which is again, every single thing that we have of the entire city is in there everything that's been put out to bond everything that's projected. This is also in here both groups are in there. Um, and we and that's where it falls and we increase the budget every year exactly right here in the bottom to see a couple of footnotes want to see the extent of the growth of the budget 3% and based on that 5% That's what we land and the decades address that each and every year as the budget change is so does the model but that never should exceed 5% in any given year period

▶ 37:16 Speaker 1: thank you those around the questions. Thank you

▶ 37:18 Speaker 2: counselor Stewart.

▶ 37:20 Robb Stewart: Thank you madam chair. Thank you all for being here this evening Mr. Delar Russo just a couple questions on your chart the column that says net debt. I just want to understand that so that is your forecast of you said. the committed Capital expenditures

▶ 37:43 Robb Stewart: plus the anticipated funding required for the two schools. Groups, is that correct? That's if you look at fy22.

▶ 37:52 Speaker 5: All right again, I'm on chat one. You see the number 2855-696. Yep. That's the net.

▶ 38:02 Robb Stewart: Of the city outside of exempta. So if you go look at the city's debt model, you'll see this number exactly comes directly off the model with 30 year model directly from that model. That's the amount of net debt that we have an fy22. Forward for the year fiscal year and that includes anything that's related to this project here this evening, which probably not going to show until 23 or later in 24 candidly by the time we get bonded to look at you you binding schedule which is also included. It'll give the exact. We'll give you a good estimate of when we anticipate going to actually Bond the project itself both of them and the schedules are right in there as they always offer for the city council right in the packet. If you don't have the schedule, just let me know but they should all be in there. And again the 5% limit would be if you did 5% of the operating budget and I'm not concerned about the five percent. I'm concerned about what that number means. That's what it means. And so what? I just want to be real clear. So that is Committed Capital expenditures plus the forecast if this goes through yes, okay. And again, it does not include any Enterprise funds they they satisfy their own debt. This is strictly the city's general fund debt period okay, and so and you know schools need roofs, we got to get roofs done. I get that and it's great that you put this the one The one cause it just that I would like to see and I know that we have approved and ordered to fund a better forecast is I'd like to see a forecast a real forecast. So this is a forecast of one event. but when we look at The capital Improvement plan, right and we look at all the group B's right. There's 43 million dollars in group b over several dozen anticipated and that I assume we have we want to start thinking about what that looks like over the next several years, right? And that's going to hit our debt if we're going to capitalize that right.

▶ 40:19 Robb Stewart: That would make a truer picture of a forecast. Versus just this one item that's thrown in there. I mean that's what always happens is you give one and eight inches up a little bit, but we don't have the true forecast as we're planting out for the next 10 years. So it's just this is more feedback, but that would be much more helpful in terms of understanding what that true debt model is so then when something unanticipated happens We have an idea of what we can do what flexibility that we have in that model. Right now we're just we're throwing a little bit on a little bit on but we don't have that full picture. You know what I mean? Yeah, I would ask you to look at the shot number two.

▶ 41:06 Speaker 5: on the back

▶ 41:11 Speaker 5: All right. Variance that's the amount of Debt Service you could take on right year. So we never put ourselves to the wall that would be improper and not prudent. We always try to have room. So it's like exactly as you say, it's a great question counselor. If something should happen in the interim, I want to the city council to have the capacity to go out and get a note to take care of it. That's why you want that capacity here on the far right but get service.

▶ 41:43 Robb Stewart: I appreciate that. But when I look at some of the things that have been talked about question. Oh, yeah, like the BB School. Like the L Pond Park, you know beauty school's 14 million in the plan L upon Park. It's 10 million in the plan. If we do that in the next couple years that will hit the schedule that will impact this forecast. That would be nice to see. On what the plan is? So that's just my feedback, you know roofs are important in school. So no question, I will support that but this is more feedback on what would help us to make more informed decisions when it's not as critical because if we're going to be weighing. Several items right when it is brought to us just by itself. You know, we either vote for it. We don't vote for. Well. What are you know, what are we talking about? What are the priorities? So that's where I'm asking for your help. In terms of being able to show us what that plan is.

▶ 42:41 Speaker 5: And through the chair absolutely the same exact page. That's why I'm just as excited as you are to put this model in place and get it going. Absolutely, right? Great. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I'm just before we get

▶ 42:52 Jen Grigoraitis: to the next round of questions. I just wanted to ask a brief follow-up question for Mr. Della Russo. So in the chart that you provided which for those are robust viewing how long viewing audiences One D the 5% debt limit. It says it is the current policy of the city of Melrose that non-exempt at budget equate to approximately 5% of the operating budget. So I do think words matter when we describe something as a policy does that mean that that is something that is documented proactively reviewed on some sort of regular schedule by you the mayor and you know agree to that we actually are going to stay within five percent or is that just the practice that we follow the institutional

▶ 43:31 Speaker 5: practice? Since I was here earlier and when I came back in 2004, that's been the

▶ 43:40 Speaker 2: practice. Okay, so it's an Institutional exhaust. Absolutely. Thank you Council Williams.

▶ 43:45 Ryan Williams: I would like to motion to recommend to the full Council for Passage.

▶ 43:51 Jen Grigoraitis: So weak have a motion to recommend made by councilor Williams in a second by President sonella on discussion counselor

▶ 43:57 Speaker 3: Garipay. I just had one other one

▶ 43:59 Mark Garipay: of the question for Patrick just on the debt. I'm sorry the system. Does this include the updated book Numbers?

▶ 44:10 Speaker 5: Gets an excellent question what we've done just to so everyone realizes the extent of that that obligation the net debt also takes into account the anticipated boat costs for Capital because even though it's not a Debt Service that we undertaken this evening. Like you are these two funds separately. It is a dead obligation of this city. And therefore I did include it and it's included in here so that we talk about net debt. I am including that obligation to the Volk is

▶ 44:47 Mark Garipay: part of that. These are the most recent update. I think that just came out. I think their project just want okay. Yeah. Thank you

▶ 44:51 Speaker 5: gonna see at least right now. So it's gonna be close to over half a million dollars the next two or three years. Right now it's like 78,000. So it's going to go up significantly.

▶ 45:04 Speaker 2: Thank you Council McMaster. Thank you.

▶ 45:05 Shawn M. MacMaster: Madam. Chair Mr. Delarosa. Are there any other anticipated borrowing requests coming down the pipeline over the next year? I'm just looking at the variance of 1.7 million dollars, and I'm just wondering if it's putting ourselves in a precarious position.

▶ 45:21 Speaker 5: Through the chair. I don't have anything right now that I would say is pending as is these are and oftentimes it's a great question and actually to countless too. It's issue too oftentimes when we have an opportunity to get a grant. That could lead us into the roof. We would do that and timing isn't always on our side. We have certain amount of time to act. So that's why this is probably surface the one it did and it says urgently as it did but right now other than what's in the model itself, you know, obviously the public safety buildings were to be funded as a debt exclusion. They would not be part of this program. It'd be outside of this just like the middle school words.

▶ 46:07 Speaker 3: Thank you.

▶ 46:08 Jen Grigoraitis: So we have a motion before it's made by comes. The Williams seconded by councilor Eccles. I stand corrected to recommend for passage Mr. Clerk. Can you please call the roll?

▶ 46:19 Speaker 3: Vice chairman clearly. Yes calstral McMaster. Yes. Counselor Eccles, yes. Counselor garpy. Yes counselor. Jamaladin. Yes counselor Stewart. Yes Council Williams. Yes, president. Sonella.