INFO-2023-13 : An Order Relative to the Melrose Public Safety Building Committee

Transcript (~1 h 14 min @ 19:45)

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▶ 19:46 Leila Migliorelli: Next on our agenda is info 2023 - 13 in order relative to the Melrose Public Safety building committee. This order was sponsored by counselors sonella and tonight broders as well as members of the mayor's public safety building committee to provide a status of the project.

▶ 20:14 Paul Brodeur: Okay, good evening. Ladies and gentlemen, Madam chair very much appreciate the opportunity to provide this update. I want to thank Council sonella for filing this order as I'm sure you will recall. This is the second update of the progress towards new Public Safety buildings here in Melrose. And that does not include the debate we add about the allocation of design funds that you graciously approves. We can move forward with some of the design elements of the project. I do have prepared remarks, but the smart people here that know what they're talking about are the ones that are going to lead you through the presentation. I just want to reiterate what I said briefly at the state of the city, which is these buildings are way past their Prime that's actually not an accurate there. They are past their functional lifespan and we owe it to the residents and Melrose and to the men and women who serve in public safety positions. To give them 21st century facilities to give our residents 21st century facilities in order to guarantee the safety and the security of this community. It has been the last time we did a significant investment in these buildings was arguably the construction of the Eastside fire station in 1964. Even the most optimistic engineer would suggest that you know, 75 or a hundred years is far too long to wait to make investments in in public safety buildings. I want to be clear as it was before this is going to be an expensive Venture. One of the reasons for that is what I just said, we have not invested in these facilities. For a long time and we're Beyond Running on Fumes quite frankly. I want to thank the members of the committee they are working and have been working since 2021 to gather information do cite tours develop information about the current state of the facilities and what what is necessary and what is possible in terms of moving us forward again into the 21st century with that. I'm going to turn it over to coach a Eugene you Gibbons for a few remarks and then I'm not sure if co-chair mcnaught is all going to speak.

▶ 22:43 Speaker 6: All right. No, I'll be very brief because the show tonight is the show the report back tonight is really to showcase the good work of my colleague Emmanuel and the Chiefs and the fire and police departments. So thank you for having us here tonight as the mayor noted. I also want to thank you for your ongoing interest and support of this work because I know that you understand how important it is and how vital these services are to our community and these men and women who provide the services are to our community. We're very excited to provide an update as the mayor noted. We were last before you in October to request an appropriation to be able to contract with Doran Whittier to move forward with pre-design services that work got well underway shortly after that a manual has been leading that with his committee or subcommittee that he's working on. I'm gonna allow the or ask the Chiefs to come up and join a manual. But before I do I just want to note that I know you all have many very good questions and we will do our very best to answer them. But because we are still in the pre design phase of our own work as a committee. There are a handful of things that we are just not able to answer because we do not have the information available to us. The most notable is about cost. So I would note that we do look forward to coming back before this body at some point in the future once we have that information available to us, but tonight is really intended to again showcase the good work that is been underway since OCT. Are to really get more detailed and more precise information about spacing needs about priorities from the Departments and the information that we are utilizing or will utilize to help arrive at a final recommendation. So with that I'm going to step away from the table and invite the Chiefs to come up and turn it over to a manual.

▶ 24:53 Speaker 7: Living I'm Emmanuel Andrade. I'm an architect with the state government during the day and I'm one of the leaders of the pre-design effort in our committee. As a junior said we were here in October pleading our keys that are committee had done as much as possible. without the help of without professional help Thank you for your vote of confidence for funding during Whittier. And since they were on contract late November early December, we started our process our pre-designed process with them. So I'm just going to paint a picture of how busy with being since December. Our work with the Arctic started December first. If you remember December 1st was Chief followers first day on the job. So he was just a few hours in his new job when we met with him and The Architects to go over the pre design for the stations. In the summer, we released the architect release questionnaires through the police Personnel and the fire personnel and the responses were just phenomenal a lot of responses from both departments. We received we let the person now respond during the holidays when we came back in January. We were able to analyze all the responses and start to build the program or the space needs analysis for this ideal firehouses fire stations and police station. So since January we've been analyzing all the information there were over eight meetings with the Chiefs. and their staff and we have some information that is the result of that good progress. We're not done. We have another month left. So we're here today to show you three months worth of progress, but we still have one month left where we're going to have more conceptual diagrams. We're going to have a real schedule. rough order of magnitude estimates April 11th is when the committee our committee will meet to review the final deliverables by the architect. And from there. We're going to develop our Report with a recommendation to the mayor

▶ 27:10 Speaker 7: So with that I'll just invite the Chiefs to share. Some of the highlights from the questionnaires with their staff starting with the the police. We received 35 responses, which was quite High according to the architect.

▶ 27:28 Speaker 2: Thank you Emmanuel and thank you for having us here. Yes, 35 responses from the men and women on the police department doesn't sound like a lot but that's in essence 75% of our personal so I was pleased with the responses and I'd like to start with just reading a few of them and I won't take a lot of time but I think it's worth mentioning and these are actual quotes from the surveys. Our building is in every way not fit for a 21st century law enforcement agency. This is impairing our ability to serve the public and a professional manner while also reducing morale and quality of life within the workspace. Another quote the existing building is far too small. We lack the space and amenities expected of a workplace. We have no Ada access. We have no classroom. We have multiple senior administrative Personnel sharing offices. Another quote almost every woman our building serves as a multi-purpose room. And lastly one of the quotes was the Melrose Police Department building as it exists now is undersized and all facets. That's just a touch of the responses that we received. I'd like to add, you know my own perspective as well as the office perspective on what we're lacking here in Melrose in the police station. So we don't have a community room. We don't have that and it's very important to me. It's very important to the people that work for me and work with me because we can't host any public events and you know that community room isn't just for us. It's the community room in essence of that's why it's called the community and we would anticipate having police Community monthly meetings, which I don't believe has happened in Melrose. We would open the community building up to agencies within the city nonprofits such as you know, may anyone that wants to use the building. It's there for them. We have no training room training as you all aware and I believe I've said this at several venues. It's very important to me. That's how you make your personnel up to speed best practices to follow what was supposed to do and if we don't have a training room to do that for our own people what that means is it's it's an impediment to get them to that level that we need to be professionally. We have to send them out to different locations. We have to spend money to send them out if we had our own training facility slash community room. We can host our own training. We have a lot of qualified certified instructors on the job. And also when you host you get free seats, so agencies would come in in generally what happens you get two or three free seats. So there's a cost savings as well that room would also double as an emergency Operation Center. We don't have that yet. You know, we have a major critical incident right now Melrose. Where do we go? Were we gonna host that the police department's a perfect spot for it. We don't have interview rooms and family waiting rooms. We don't have rooms for priv. You know someone comes into our police station for a private issue a sexual assault a domestic issue. You name it? We don't have the facilities to take them in private right now our interview room slash interrogation room slash lunchroom slash whatever you want to call it as a multi-purpose room. And to me that's unacceptable. We need to move forward in that. We have no conference room from major cases. We had a major case, you know when I got on and and we wanted to have a big meeting with the da and the victim and in the support Personnel. I had no place to host it. We had to have it here at City Hall. Not quite frankly. It's an embarrassing for me as a chief to not be able to, you know have my own sort of meetings and take care of our own victims and on that same note. We don't have a chief's conference room. We don't have a major case conference from we have a shooting. We have a major critical incident. I don't even have the ability to host the da or outside agencies that come in. We have outdated and unsafe cell block and booking areas. We don't even we're not even compliant. We don't have the ability to separate Sight and Sound from males females and juveniles to me. That's unacceptable. It's also on safe our offices and prisoners have to go down to see a steep flight of stairs. Every time we book them. That's just a recipe for disaster our evidence room needs updating to comply with best practices. We don't have a dedicated crime lab crime lab is again multi-use. It's crime lab, it's Firearms office. It's where I go fill up my water from my coffee. It's it's it's we're doing the best we can but we need more our Command Staff our administrative offices. They're all double and triple occupied. I have several supervisors in a basement office with no windows with the walls crumbling around them. I just created a Professional Standards division. And that sogin is sitting in a corner in a cubicle staring at another sergeant lieutenant kind of jammed in and it's almost the antithesis of what a Professional Standards division should be. We have no space needs for our current needs and never mind future needs. We have a social worker coming on board, which is we all know as important. I don't know. I have no office for this person. I don't have a place to put her. No break room no modern locker rooms, no roll call room. No Wellness Center, and please don't underestimate the importance of Wellness Center. You know, it's one of the six pillars of 21st century policing. office of safety and Wellness and that's physical and mental Wellness, you know police officers firefighters have a 54% higher suicide risk. and it's just not going to happen on my watch and if I can do everything in the community can do everything to sort of prevent that that's just one of the ways we can help. professional police officers deserve a professional building that we're in the community can be proud of and I want to emphasize that the community can be proud of the men and women that work for me. You're going to do their job no matter what building we're in their professionals, but I want to be treated like one. We will do our job recruitment and retention. We're trying to recruit the most qualified people. We're trying to get it's hard to become a police officer. It's hard to find qualified candidates. If we had a brand new building a professional modern building that helps that helps it recruitment helps with retention. And lastly. I just want to share my experience before I came over here getting a new police station in Medford it I can't even put into words. You know the intangibles in the tangibles that came along with that and we undertook that in 2017. We broke ground in 2019 and we moved in in 2020. So it was about it 16 or 18 months or so construction. We ended up with a 35,000 square foot brand new building with no fossil fuels. It's completely green. Solar panels it's just in addition to that the morale building for the personnelic that work in there. It really did wonders and and I also want to take this opportunity. I know some of the members in the committee. I had taken them on a tour and I think it was very very impactful and I think it was very worthwhile. So I want to take this opportunity to invite the the members of the council and I can arrange that at any time we can discuss that and at the same time I'd like to invite you to come visit the Melrose police station if you haven't and for obvious reasons because you need to know what we have and I want you to know what we can have and we did in Medford. We had the cooperation of the community city council the mayor at the time and in the men and women that worked in the police station and It can work. We weren't a building probably just as bad as the one I'm in now, if not worse and I heard it every day. We're never going to get a new building CD doesn't care. They don't care. Well, you know what the city does care. It's it's just a matter of how you how you approach it how you strategically sell it to the public for once and needs. We want it and we need it. I just want to thank you for your time again.

▶ 35:29 Speaker 8: All right, same pretty much the same story in the fire department. I can read a couple of quotes as well from the members. We got less of a response. this time around but One of the quotes was we have mold growing on our ceiling tiles in the kitchen. Our floors have no tiles. With obvious structural Integrity issues. We see the floor Below on the second floor. None of our HVAC properly were actually in the station as low as 58 on winter days and as hot as 83 degrees. On some days. We also have Plumbing issues throughout the building. This next quotes kind of an important one. It's no Decon area. No designated gear storage area designated male female bathrooms. no room for proper apparatus maintenance or repairs in the station the ceiling Ceilings are too low dispatch area. also Dispatch area also area where general public comes in. Dispatch area on main floor is loud due to the running Vehicles generator that's below the dispatch making it difficult to hear radio transmission. Rodent problems inside the station heating and cooling systems are inconsistent EMS Supply area on the main floor. on the main apparatus for susceptible to diesel exhaust fumes and it's a couple of this but just the modern day fire stations today address all these these issues that were currently living in. Space needs space needs for apparatus and Equipment space needs for our staff. Those are huge huge components of this project. We need large enough apparatus Bays apparatus doors. to accommodate modern-day Fire Apparatus and we need to plan for the future as well as the starting to come online all electric fire apparatus the weight of those trucks alone. Before we put equipment in water on it. Need to be on structurally sound apparatus floor. Our SCBA our self-contained breathing apparatus. cylinder storage maintenance of the scbas both the packs and the the cylinders should all be in a clean room a room where I wouldn't be clean but a room that wouldn't contaminate other spaces a filling station right now currently is being filled on the apparatus floor. It's not a clean environment. you know, we have filters on our filling station, but it should be in a separate room away from the behazards of an apparatus Bay Communications An EOC Center the chief talked about the police station. I have a different of opinion on that that it should be remote from where the dispatch is so that if the department The Dispatch Center you can open up. Relatively quickly the operations in a remote area from the normal dispatch. Conference rooms the same same problems as the police. We don't have conference rooms a lot of our conference. Conferences take place at the kitchen table. There's privacy issues could be compromised. staff areas for staff. There's no report writing. We do our reports the kitchen table.

▶ 39:14 Speaker 8: Learning there's no learning facility. Like a library where you could get resources to to study. Techniques and advancements in the fire service. We don't have a training room. To educate our members and like Chief Fowler said to bring in outside agencies. We just you know, usually they want you to host at least 50 people and we can't even host 20. Storage, we don't have room for record retention. That's required by law. Proper Storage that is training equipment, you know some of our equipments expensive you just don't want to leave it lying around. It should be secured in a locked room until the time that you need it I medical supplies. That all should be in a dedicated supply room these these types of wants are in modern-day fire stations. health for our members proper Fitness area decontamination areas so that when you come back from Iran and you contaminated with whether it's a Body fluids or carcinogens from a fire you right now? the gear stays on the apparatus War but the dirty firefighter walks up the stairway into the living quarters to clean up and a new modern-day fire stations have all that on the ground. They compartmentize the station so that you don't bring your contaminants into your living area. living quarters you know the quality of life that we're currently living under morale as well, you know due to the rodents or the the floor conditions of the floor the tiles the laundry the laundry is on the apparatus floor. It's not in the living quarters. This is for the work uniforms and things cooking facilities. Deficient dormitories we have men and women sharing the same dormitories. lavatories we do with headquarters have two male and a female. Lavatory, but the outside stations have one bathroom in this year. We don't have separate locker rooms. Then the building needs, you know to accommodate the space that I'm talking about. These buildings that we can't get the these functions into the current buildings. The floors are suspended with basements underneath and they're struggle and to stay up. With the weight of modern-day fire apparatus on our floors. Were not code compliant with with any code whether it's an energy. We're not non-existent with Energy Efficiency. We don't have public restrooms in the building. Accessibility we're not handicapped accessible. and the outside structures their challenge in the building next door with the Fallen bricks the Slate. Boarded up Windows the all this plays into poor morale and the fire department.

▶ 42:34 Speaker 8: Go respect that.

▶ 42:37 Speaker 8: You know you can sit. Out the final package that we present to the council. At that time. Thank you.

▶ 42:45 Speaker 7: I think it's pretty clear that the existing conditions of the stations in the last two months. As I said with the Architects both myself and the Chiefs have explored the potential for upgraded facilities the so what we have today is really part of our charges of community. Proposed solutions to deliver 21st Century Modern Public Safety buildings. So what we're presenting here today are things that were prepared to share. There's a lot that we're not ready and we'll come back next time with more information about what we can share with you today. Is this we need a new police station at a new site the current site the current building is a third of the size of a real police station a modern police station. It's one highlight that we do not have a site for the new police station. We're designing a new police station on paper at the moment until the time the city identifies and and established establish a site for the police station, but right now we're designing on paper. No reduction on the number of fire stations. That's something that the previous effort. Try to Recommend that is something that our committee is not comfortable recommending for many reasons. One of them is it will take just one tragic fire after you reduce them number of fire stations for that decision to hunt the committee. I don't think the committee wants to be responsible for that recommendation. So we're keeping four stations three fire stations one police station as our recommendation. Last one no combined public safety building no combined police and fire station. This is something that you you see more often in western Mass in cities with long small populations and large Parcels. We don't have that in Melrose. We don't have a lot big enough to have two departments Under One Roof. So with that I just want to present very quickly our preliminary three-phase approach. This is really the longest scenario where the new police station and Engine 2 on Tremont Street would be upgraded or built new at the same time that could take about a year and a half two years. So the police department will stay at the current police station during construction Personnel from the from Engine 2. Would move to the other two fire stations engine 3 and Central When the new police station is built. The police department can move to the new police station and vacate the old police station.

▶ 45:38 Speaker 7: in phase two The central fire would be upgraded that means that Personnel from that station would go to Engine 2, which is recently upgraded large enough to handle more personnel. That also depending on the on the the solution that is approved could take 18 to 24 months. and finally upgrading engine 3. That means that Personnel from agent engine 3 could go to the other two. Upgraded fire stations and that that also could take about 18 months to 24 months depending on the the solution approved. So in overall, this could take anywhere between four and a half years to six years in the longest scenario right now. We are working hard to shorten that period and we have a few possibilities. One of them is perhaps converting the empty police station the old police station as what we call in construction swing space for the fire Personnel. So the fire Personnel can occupy the police station and work from there and perhaps we can build two stations at one time and then try again choose stations at in a second phase. So that will allow us to do it two phases and that would be three years. It could be three years a lot shorter. So we're working on that right now. I also like to share our preliminary. Square footage for the four stations starting with the current size, you know. The total of the four stations up a little over 30 35,000 gross square feet gross square feet means measuring to the outside walls. In 2017, as you remember, that effort was about almost 55,000 square feet with two caveats. The first one is the central fire and Engine 2 were combined into one single station. So that time there were three stations not four. and you can see the Back, then the fire department really had a bad deal with that proposal. I would say because right now Central and fire a central fire in Engine 2 total 21,000 square feet and the proposal was to increase that size by only 2,000 square feet. That doesn't even afford one Bay for the apparatus room an engine 3. The second caveats is the engine 3 there would be no expansions just a renovation to bring it up to code. But an absolutely no expansion. Well, we have today is a total of 96,000 square feet and we're working again. We keep we have another month we keep working to Do our best to reduce as much as possible because as you know, as every square foot means additional dollars for the project. So again, those are preliminary numbers, but we want we just want to share Apples to Apples the comparison between Dan and now and finally So that's it for me. I think I'll let my my colleagues my culture our co-chairs to explain the community engagement schedule.

▶ 49:07 Speaker 6: Yes the so as we complete the pre design work. We're beginning to get

▶ 49:16 Speaker 6: underway with our community engagement work, which is the next phase process together. This is a rough schedule of what we anticipate doing. Our goal is always to make sure that the processes we undertake are as transparent and as thorough as possible as a manual noted. So about a month after the beginning of April about a month after the mayor's state of the city. We are scheduling our first public learning session similar to this, but we hope to host it in

▶ 49:48 Speaker 6: the Melrose learning common and open to the public to share at that point. We'll have even more detailed information as a manual noted because we will have moved. crew another month of analysis of the spacing needs and then we would anticipate that in may we would like to come back to this body to provide another status update on where we are at that point in the process. And I should note that we are ultimately working to have a final recommendation package for the mayor the city council and the public by the end of June recognizing that the way that this is going to be paid for will ultimately come down to a valid question for a dead exclusion. So we need to allow for time for the city and the council to arrive at that final request and get it to the ballot. So that's roughly our schedule for engagement. I would note that we have a website that is publicly available and just went through some additional updates to make it accessible for folks who might use additional reading or screen devices. And we are intent on providing a hybrid option for future public engagement session so fully recognizing that not everybody is able to attend in person. So we'll make sure that when possible those will be recorded and shared publicly and will include to add a dish will continue to include we'll continue to add additional information to our website. So folks can access Snippets there and again are always available along with the city with the mayor's office to feel any questions from the public and to make ourselves available. And if there's anything I forgot, please feel free to fill it

▶ 51:41 Jeff McNaught: in. I don't think you forgot anything I think. We're ready and available to take any questions that you may

▶ 51:48 Speaker 5: all have.

▶ 51:50 Leila Migliorelli: Thank you, both and all and everyone fear. The presentation counselor. Cinella is maker

▶ 51:57 Christopher Cinella: the order. Thank you. Madam chair. Well first let me just say you're gonna hear this tonight. You hear it repeatedly as you come in and come back. Thank you for this and everything all of your time into this. I think the the public needs to understand that this is a committee of volunteers that is taking time away from your family your careers other commitments within the city. I don't many of you are involved in all kinds of things our First Responders that are that involved in some of you I think have been involved even in the prior. Go around at this back in 17, I think but so again, thank you for your volunteerism. But you answered my first question of but confirming that we will have a new police station location. You don't know what that where that will be. But do you know when you'll have that I'm assuming it's gonna be a couple ideas floating around possibly. May I mean is what are we looking at for the location? Because

▶ 52:57 Speaker 6: So early speculation so peer speculation. So we don't have a solid answer for when we would know what options are. I'm sure that there are spaces being considered but we

▶ 53:19 Speaker 6: will bury it but when we have that information, we will definitely share it with with this body and with the public.

▶ 53:26 Paul Brodeur: As you might imagine cost is is a factor. So as we consider various options, and obviously there are only there are only so many out there. We are not inclined to take anything by imminent domain if we can at all avoid it probably for obvious reasons, it can be contentious and costly so we expect to avoid that and we will you know, that's as Chair Gibbons said we will keep you updated along the

▶ 53:59 Christopher Cinella: and is there any and you mentioned that the Current station possibly will be used as sort of a makeshift fire station. Not exactly or something something that this way as

▶ 54:11 Speaker 6: swing space during construction potentially a swing space during the phased construction. It would

▶ 54:18 Speaker 2: be like leveled and used just as I don't know. I

▶ 54:22 Speaker 6: don't know. What is a swing space Oh, it's just taking advantage of the existing building. So the timeline that a manual laid out or the possible phasing of construction essentially what we're trying to do because he noted that there's you know, it could take anywhere from two to six years to see completion depending on how we Face the construction. And so one of the considerations being made is how to officially use the space that we have available and the exploring the possibility that the vacated police station could be utilized as another part of Swing space as the construction of the other buildings is completed. You know, it's I don't want to get out over my skis but part of the consideration is also when you prolong construction and you have to bring in other swing space trailers other things those are additional costs that go into the project and so trying to my efficiency and cost and space throughout the process is something that we are considering closely.

▶ 55:14 Christopher Cinella: And is there any federal estate money that?

▶ 55:18 Paul Brodeur: terrific questions short answer is no this really is the only Infrastructure component out there along with DBW where there is no. Standalone support for it. You know, there there is you know, there was something for libraries. There's something for schools. There are several pieces of legislation before before the legislature to consider things like creating a municipal building building authority of public safety building authority along the lines of the school building authority. Those have been around for a while. There is some traction there but we I we cannot wait respectfully for that to happen because I don't have a heck of a lot of confidence that it will in a significant waiver push and we have the support of of our delegation to be sure and again on the federal side. It's a little bit mystifying giving all the money that's going in for going into infrastructure, but there's no dedicated funding for police of Fire.

▶ 56:27 Christopher Cinella: And then my last question, did you mentioned the website you want to just mention what the the link is how

▶ 56:34 Speaker 6: to get to it? Yes, I will forgive me. I don't have it committed

▶ 56:40 Speaker 2: to memory at the moment. Okay. I'm sure it's on the city site somewhere

▶ 56:43 Speaker 6: it first front page M. I will get it for you. It isn't it is on the City website. It's I'm forgetting my ACT my initials, it's MP.

▶ 56:56 Speaker 9: Oh, thank you. Google Melrose Public

▶ 56:57 Speaker 6: Safety. No, they're there it is. There it is. Thank you very much Emmanuel. Thank you.

▶ 57:04 Speaker 4: Vice chairman

▶ 57:12 Maya Jamaleddine: well on that note I wanted to what you Consular Santa a lot. Thank you. We cannot thank you enough. I think for the work that you've done. I know you can admit it to do that work, but not sure if you committed to to do it for that long and you didn't know that's gonna take that long from your time. I really appreciate that. I also wanted to thank Chief failure for his work and Leadership. I know as much as you're lucky to have your staff. They are an officers. I know that they're very lucky to have you you showed. amazing leadership since you started and I think this is a great opportunity to mention that now and acknowledge it.

▶ 58:00 Maya Jamaleddine: on the note of

▶ 58:04 Maya Jamaleddine: You know police officers well-being and mental health care. We know that on the recent study was we have at least one officer police officers suicidal case every two days and that's a big number. That's a big percentage. So I think it's it's very important to be able to show appreciation care and acknowledgment for the work that you all do for our community and for the country overall. I do hope that this that our community at least will be able to show that and would be able to provide that place for you where everyone will feel that they do. Have a good place to serve us. I do have a question just to clarify not to question your work and assessment and evaluation at all. I wanted to see you mentioned Ms. Given that it's gonna take about six years. to like for all this to be complete all this work to be completed and I wonder If we would be able it's going to be phases so with that like with the money. Problem challenge that we have with it be a are we going to be able to do it in phases like get be able to vote for? every phase

▶ 59:37 Speaker 6: I won't let the mayor take that question because I know it's done a great deal of research to get a good answer. I would just note that yes, the range that a manual presented was anywhere from two to six years, but we don't have the exact amount of time yet. But yeah, so it's a

▶ 59:53 Paul Brodeur: terrific question because typically a dead exclusion is for a single building. You have the plan you build in certain escalators and and you build it assuming there's something that the project or the dead exclusion passes. In this case. It's a little bit more challenges. We've talked to both president and former employees of divisional local Services part of the Department of Revenue was spoken to our bond Council spoken to our investment Bank. We've spoken to the the former director of ANF and about how this can work and it's a little bit complicated, but but not really you can do A debt exclusion for multiple phases and have it go out. What you do have to do is, you know at the front end you get present costs when we when we do the plan and what we will see more than likely at the end of March as president cost. As we you know have the public discussion about this. We will have to build in significant. Cost escalation because as you know, nothing nothing gets nothing gets cheaper the the rate of inflation hopefully will drop but that will be part of the part of the program. The thing that you are not allowed to do essentially have what I think of as Mission Creep meaning you can't go to the public and say here's the plan we're going to build this this and this here are the here are the parameters. You can't decide after you get the debt authorization. You know what another station would be terrific or we're also going to purchase some Vehicles while we have this authorization or What you know whatever the case may be. You can't have a significant alteration of those plan because I've essentially you're kind of Breaking Faith with the voters at that point. So it is it is definitely possible to do but it does have those, you know, those kind of parameters around in a safeguards guardrails if you will.

▶ 1:01:55 Maya Jamaleddine: Thank you. I don't have any further question. I just want to say again. Thank you all thank you Chief Colina for all you do.

▶ 1:02:06 Speaker 4: Good with my question. Thank you guys. Sure Madam president.

▶ 1:02:09 Jen Grigoraitis: Thank you. I will Echo what everyone said and thank you all for your work and I just in particular want to say that it's clear that this model works that when we really dig in and collaborate and work together and take the time to build connections and trust that we can do great things and I hope that that can kind of be a model for some of our other challenges in our community because I'm incredibly excited to see this moving forward. So thank you to all of you. I do want to say that I think the council is a is a partner in this and I know that many of the people around this table and some that are now sitting on the other side of the table and some that were here years before us have been advocating to see this move forward. So I think you should feel like this is a room that is very much in support of these efforts the questions that I have. I recognize that they bleed a little bit into what happens when something goes on the ballot, but I also feel like we're getting pretty close to that. Hopefully being a reality so The council's role would be to vote to allow a debt. If there's a request from the mayor to allow a debt exclusion to move forward on a ballot and the intent is for that to be in the November election.

▶ 1:03:16 Paul Brodeur: Ideally, obviously we will not We we will not move until we are 100% confident of the information and such but that is absolutely the goal.

▶ 1:03:26 Jen Grigoraitis: And I know the timeline the range was two to six years and I knit my question for the two kind of construction experts in the room. I'm looking at Elena and Emmanuel is how realistic does that feel like is that in this current environment? And I say that because we've had multiple conversations in this room about much much smaller projects than this that have taken significantly longer amounts of time than we've anticipated and I think making sure that the community is kind of properly prepared for what we think is a real even as whatever however in Pleasant the real number may be like what feels accurate and obtainable and do you think that's due to six years?

▶ 1:04:06 Speaker 1: Okay.

▶ 1:04:12 Speaker 1: Sorry, we need a bigger table. That's Jeff.

▶ 1:04:16 Speaker 9: Can and the biggest table in the

▶ 1:04:18 Speaker 1: temporarily in the word two seat he'll be fine.

▶ 1:04:22 Speaker 7: Yes, that's that's a very comfortable range, you know, you can build a new police station for the size. We're planning 30,000 square feet in 2020 months 21 months if you're a very effective and so but we have a buffer of 24 months. So it's very

▶ 1:04:41 Jen Grigoraitis: conservative. Okay? All right. Thank you and then My I guess more of a comment is I think Mr. Mayor hearing your brief primer on the dead exclusion. I think that's going to be an incredibly critical part of what we bring to the public that it's both. What is it that we're asking people to buy into and then how do we actually fund it? And what does that mean for them? So I'm assuming that will be going hand-in-hand and then what happens assuming that there's a vote in August in this moose forward. Then what happens does the continued public engagement move to a different group of people does the committee continue to do that work? Is that all to be determined?

▶ 1:05:19 Paul Brodeur: A little bit of both. Okay, I guess so. Let's say a little bit of both. We need to we certainly need to solidify the plan first and in a dream world, it would sell itself, but a certainly not not that naive to think that This will just roll forward without any kind of and and quite frankly. It shouldn't right into your point. The process that we're going of distinguish it from y'all. Remember the there was a study in the 90s. There was a study in 2017. I remember a little bit about the 17 don't remember the the 90s. This is really the first time as far as I can tell that this is it all been. socialized or presented or engaged you know with the community about not just the This is where we want to go. But this is why and this is how we're going to get there. And I mean there's some. I wish I wish we had more time to to a certain degree, but to realize what I said before it is past time to do something about this.

▶ 1:06:29 Speaker 6: Arrived at that recommendation and along the way part of the public engagement process is intended to make sure that there's a fairly good. Public understanding and the idea has been socialized that you know, not only are the need we all know what the need is we're very Solutions oriented at this point and we hope to sort of answer some of those questions preemptively and proactively so that when there is a pivot made to a vote by this body and a move towards asking the public to incur the cost. There's a good sense of there's a solid appreciation for what it is that will to your point sort of what it is that they're being asked to pay pay for, excuse me, so we are cognizant of the fact that we might not be the ones who are shepherding this process all the way to the ballot, but we are doing our very best to make sure we Tee It Up For Success in

▶ 1:07:32 Speaker 1: the long term. Thank you. Thank you.

▶ 1:07:35 Speaker 4: counselor karmchatie

▶ 1:07:38 Manjula Karamcheti: Thank you. I want to also Echo all the city councilors in terms of being grateful for all the energy and effort that has gone into this work. Not only have you put in a lot of time energy and effort but it's also clear it's concise. It's easy to understand and so synthesizing it all in a way that's digestible is really important and you've done an excellent job with that as well. I also want to apologize to our public servants in terms of the conditions that you've been working under you take care of us. You take care of our community and I think it's vital that we take care of you and give you this space to be able to do your work and do it. Well, so I'm I'm sorry you've had to deal with the conditions that you've had to deal with and yet you still show up every day ready to serve Melrose and that does not go unnoticed. So thank you very much for that. Some of my questions are already been touched on so I don't I won't ask those just in regards to the police department location. If you are able in thinking about a new one, are there particular criteria or parameters that we need to be thinking about in terms of where one might go like I think of Melrose I think of four square miles as many do so

▶ 1:09:01 Paul Brodeur: start, but I will let the chief. Compose some thoughts while I blah blah. The what distinguishes police a little bit from fire the way we do police Public Safety here in Melrose. Is that for the most part our offices are on the street? So, you know when when something comes in unlike the fire department where you call into fire and they dispatch we have the things three sectors, right? There's chopped up three sectors and there's a patrol and each one. So, you know, the our Personnel are already out there doing their thing. So there's a lot more flexibility in terms of where a police station can go then a fire station or then of an array of fire stations can go all driven by response that Chief. Yes. Thank

▶ 1:09:59 Speaker 2: you, Mr. Van. It's sort of exactly what I was going to say. As far as location goes. We're much more flexible because of that reason the police officers should be on the street mobile. And should have the ability to travel wherever and whenever we tell them to do I do have my own personal opinion May differ from some people, but you know what, I've told people you know, who have asked me. Some of the questions was it's not exactly 1952 anymore. We're you really had to be a centralized location. Transportation has changed technology has changed certainly that would be the ideal situation. But I'm not a verse to having a location. That's not centrally located. Pretty much what the reasons that the marriage said. What I'd be looking for is site security. So the police station is a pretty secure location. There's also things you have to think about as disruption of neighbors Johnson Construction to try to limit that so a location that wouldn't sort of impact. Neighbors other businesses is always great and then just size it, you know, you looked at some of the pre-designed square footage, you know, we need us we need a footprint that's going to fit and and it's not only the building you have to think about parking accessibility for personnel cruises the public when they show up so I'm pretty flexible when it comes to location on that in we all know Melrose. We don't have a lot of real estate to choose from but without saying I'll take whatever I can get I'm saying I'll take whatever I can get with some caveats, of course really one of them is the biggest thing is trying to limit disruption for our neighbors. Just like if you were building a house, you know, you want to be sort of cordial and cooperative and you know to make this seamless as we can. I do

▶ 1:11:47 Paul Brodeur: want to note the chief mentioned 1952 and if my memory serves It's kind of a bad example because the fire department moved into that station. In the plate, it's the current low quarters in 1951. So yeah.

▶ 1:12:08 Manjula Karamcheti: Good. Thank you so much for that and just in terms of just a couple of things that you said that I appreciated and wanted to note in terms of the vision for the police department having it be a space where the community is welcome. Where People are engaged where victims are taken care of and treated with respect in terms of 21st century policing just really grateful to learn that that is the vision in terms of how we're moving forward. One of the things you mentioned was sort of the Medford Police Station being green and whatnot. And is that part of like our design and what we're thinking about as well? I don't know if it's too early for those kinds of details, but just

▶ 1:13:07 Manjula Karamcheti: wonderful. Thank you very much in regards to the the timeline of potentially taking two to six years. I'm just wondering about how future forward are we thinking about design in regards to what potential policing what potential fire changes might come along and are we able to design for that as well?

▶ 1:13:31 Speaker 2: Yes speaking on the police side and I'm sure Chief Colleen into the same. We had these meetings with what Doran Whittier it was all about that because you don't build something and we've seen it. It's sort of in the neighboring Community where they built a brand new police station and they're doing a major renovation because it just I don't know the reason why it was built that way but they're already out of space. So no you have to build finale also to build for the future. So we're not back here and you know, 10 15 years or even less looking for more money and looking for more buildings space, you know, the needs the requirements through post commission through the fight of pop and our sort of mandates that the police have to face a changing year after year in that space that training space office space, which I said for the social work is you know, you need to sort of fact of that and then factor in a 1.5 because the stuff that we don't know is going to happen and I'll use the example of method we have free social work is actually on full-time. I still say way. I'm sorry. They have they have three and they have their own office, you know, and that that office was built. With not knowing that they were going in there but building building for future needs. We have an office dedicated to portal to Hope which helps domestic violence victims. It was situated right at the where you walk in the lobby. So you had the front desk when I talked about private space. So if we had domestic violence victims to come in we had an office already set for them to meet a liaison social work is available upstairs. If they needed to meet with them. Those are all the little things in Jeff can attest and Jason came when they saw that first hand the things that you sort of don't think about and then when you see it in a new station, you know that it can happen.

▶ 1:15:17 Speaker 6: I just want to know because I think a manual and chief Kalina can speak to can add to what she followed just said, but that's the difference you're seeing in these square footage numbers between 2017 and now and what's being proposed 2017 was a stopgap effort. It didn't allow for growth it barely allowed for getting up to where they needed to be in 2017 and what the process at a manual has led in the last several months has revealed is what we're looking at now. It will be probably windowed down a little bit but that is accounting for growth over time alongside. Getting the buildings up to code and meeting current standards and and considering future growth and standards. So. I think that just underscores. So when you ask the question if the question comes up why two instead why three instead of two understand that it is future thinking future planning that is at the heart of that.

▶ 1:16:17 Manjula Karamcheti: And chief Kalina. Are you a Ditto in terms of the future forward or I just want to make sure you have the opportunity as well.

▶ 1:16:24 Speaker 6: I'm just gonna stay right here Center.

▶ 1:16:29 Speaker 8: Genie just hit on it in regards to Central fire station to bring it up to code compliance. The current Footprints can't get bigger. It's actually going to get smaller. To come in to compliance with the codes. That means things that are being currently done at headquarters have to go elsewhere. And that's why you see that the growth at engine 3 into bigger than from the 2017 study. We're going to have to move resources that are currently being done here. to other locations

▶ 1:17:05 Manjula Karamcheti: And then my last final question and Eugenia, I think you explained it. So I it's more of an echo just that in community engagement piece. When I looked at the original Community engagement, it looked like it was just like for Zoom meetings and so I do I was happy to hear you say that it hybrid zoom in person in the learning Commons. I think that piece is going to be essential and even if this group isn't the one to lead those efforts after June that model I think is really important to to do as much Outreach as possible to as many groups in Melrose and as many individuals and Melrose that represent like our diverse Community to make sure everyone is engaged and informed and why this matters and is so important so Thank you for laying that groundwork as well. I'm all set. Thank you counselor garepe. Thank you.

▶ 1:17:57 Mark Garipay: Thank you all for being here. Thank you for all your hard work. Much of my questions were asked especially around the size and going from two to three or three to two. But I do have a couple quick questions on. What why are we starting with I know and the Main Street Station is I'm sorry. I'm going to manual because you were you were the one who brought it up, but The main tree station is in a lot of disarray why we start and why aren't we starting with that? Do you think that's gonna last six more years? Are we going to have to do a major investment in the next six years into that building prior to? To really get and going. Just curious on why we're not starting with the main street. I know it probably has to do it actually has to do with Logistics, but

▶ 1:18:52 Speaker 7: yeah, the chief might be able to help me we propose engine to be built first because that's the largest site of the three build this big as possible so that we can take that that brand new facility can't accommodate Personnel from two other stations if we start with Central fire, Just there's you know, the other two stations are already. They cannot accommodate the apparatus. So it's really making sure that we start with the right one so that we can Nothing Stops.

▶ 1:19:24 Mark Garipay: And we're confident I shouldn't say we're confident. None of us are ever confident in that in the building next door, but we know do we think we think we're going to be fine without major major investments into into the Main Street Station without without tearing down to 18 or Remodel and 18 months. Later.

▶ 1:19:44 Speaker 7: I believe so. Yeah, it's a very a lot of constraints in that building. It's a historic facility. You got the city hall on one side Memorial Hall and the other side big parking lot in the back, but Within the building shell there's a lot that we can do and do it. Well.

▶ 1:20:02 Mark Garipay: With engine engine 3 and the Main Street Station you add in 5,000 square feet. I think to the Main Street Station and quite a bit to engine engine 3. Are you going going up on engine 3 you're putting the second floor? Yeah expanding

▶ 1:20:18 Speaker 7: the side wider and taller just

▶ 1:20:21 Mark Garipay: two stars at least. Yeah, and how about on the Main Street?

▶ 1:20:23 Speaker 7: You're gonna go back. So yeah, Main Street is our initial proposal was to because it's a historic building. We have we need Agency oversight with the mass historical Commission in addition to the local historical bodies we can go up but the idea but we need more space it we need to fit 40 pounds of space into a 30 pound building and what gives is as Chief Colina mentioned? That's some of the spaces get relocated in other brand new stations. But our proposal right now is to build a 5,000 square foot addition behind the fire station. That would be really the de facto public entrance really don't want people on the Main Street entrance because that's a lot of movement of trucks really facing the back of the building. All we need is really 5,000 square feet a Lobby vestibule and stairwell because we need to we need a stairwell other than the stairwells today we have in the building right now. So yes one we thought just renovating the shell but we need a small addition in the back and that comes at the cost of two or three parking spaces.

▶ 1:21:29 Mark Garipay: What would the plan be for the old old police station? Once everything once this whole Project's complete, let

▶ 1:21:38 Speaker 9: me take that. Yes.

▶ 1:21:41 Paul Brodeur: We'll see honestly is the answer we know it is deficient. So it has to come Offline that won't be part of this decision-making process quite frankly other than if if through the process we learn that we need it for for swing space that will obviously Drive the short-term future of of the building no decisions have been made on that yet. The the possibilities are concerned for development. We could turn it into parking not something I'm particularly in favor of we could hold it because it is while it is It is not a good or even. You know supportable police facility. There are space needs that other other City departments have and potentially the school department has so all those all those possibilities and we I'm not I'm not inclined to tie that into the planning around. Our needs we need to desperately need to meet these needs and then we will do what the building whatever the wisdom of the community is in terms of. Disposal sale reinvestment, whatever the case may be, okay.

▶ 1:23:04 Mark Garipay: With regards to the police station, we don't have a any property for it right now. We're going off. Our conception conceptual drawing is is our goal. Well, we have that land. Oh that location solidified by the time this goes to a ballot or are we going to base it on a okay? I guess I have a on the dead exclusion ballot question. There were two you said two options. I think on the timeline in August formulate Bella question with two options for November. What can you explain a little bit about what are they gonna be two options on the ballot? No. Okay. I'm just trying to get a little clarification. No that the

▶ 1:23:48 Speaker 6: way and you can certainly speak to this better than I can Mr. Mayor but the way a dead exclusion would work. It has to be fairly precise in terms of and prescriptive in terms of what the ask is of the public. So our goal is the committee is to narrow is to take all the information. We're Gathering apply criteria that we've agreed upon as sort of us to help us select a final recommendation and to put forth that recommendation to the mayor to the city council and to the city to decide there was a one point we were we haven't decided yet if that's going to be a final recommendation or if we arrive at like two potential scenarios. That you would have to choose from but the final ask of the public will be a single. Decision that you all arrive at so it will be you know, very discreet. Okay, and then

▶ 1:24:39 Mark Garipay: I had a couple dead exclusion questions and if you want, but if you want to If if we're doing the project in phases the debt exclusions for goes out for the total cost of the project, right? Or would it be placed in like the middle school went out for one project? And at the end of the project that came in last so the money to the taxpayers was a little less. I'm just trying to I think that's something we're going to really have to explain if it's going to be phased in sure it

▶ 1:25:09 Paul Brodeur: makes and and what what will happen though. The debt exclusion is essentially an authorization to borrow. It is not actual borrowing. It's kind of a technical point but important to make because we also won't essentially won't borrow till we need to meaning we're not going to borrow. The money for the Final Phase right up front because we don't have any use for the money. So just be you know would be incurring debt putting the in interest putting that in the taxpayer before we need to it's very mindful very mindful of that and that's where our friends, you know, particularly again our investment Bank gives very good advice about how to structure the debt structure of the borrowing so that we can You know not mitigate. I mean again, it's gonna be a lot of money but mitigate that impact so that you're not paying interest for dollars that are being put into use

▶ 1:26:09 Mark Garipay: Okay, I'll probably have more questions. Yes. I'm just appreciate all your work. I look forward to to this project and thank you. Thank you.

▶ 1:26:20 Speaker 4: counselor Williams

▶ 1:26:21 Ryan Williams: Thank you everyone for being here and I want to especially thank the membership for being here. We've got officers and firefighters in the back and it's not something that we see at our meetings every day. It's clear that this means something safest place

▶ 1:26:33 Speaker 9: in Melrose. That's true. It's clear that it means something

▶ 1:26:36 Ryan Williams: to them. You know, it's it's not just a smoke and mirrors. It's important to their everyday experience and I hope that we can get it over the Finish Line with them. Every question that I had to ask is already been asked so One thing I wanted to do was call back to counselor karamchetti's comment on the Outreach plan. It's phenomenal. It's a model and I think it's a model not just for this project. It's a model for any project any ballot initiative that I think anybody in the city could think of that plan is a great blueprint whether it's you know Community preservation actor and overrider anything that we need to go to the taxpayers for I think you folks have really laid a really solid foundation for something that people can and should use for multiple purposes. For a long time to come so thank you very much because the work is is not just going to benefit the officers and the firefighters. It's going to benefit the whole Community just in the in the practice that you've created. It did have I did have one. I have one question so earlier. Actually last year a gentleman who's on the planning board who's an architect and I were just kind of chit-chatting about parking lots in Melrose and you mentioned parking lots and it got me thinking about this discussion. We had he reorganized parking spaces at Shaw's and he found 2,700 square feet. And no loss of parking. He just took the pieces and moved them around the board. You might do it for fun. It's like an architect thing, you know,

▶ 1:28:03 Speaker 7: every time I do groceries there's a better way to lay

▶ 1:28:07 Ryan Williams: out that parking lot. Right? Right and we did some of something similar in Hoover Elaine the director. We looked at the parking lot. We didn't think we could fit a sidewalk and we started moving pieces of Robo they did, you know, I had nothing to do with it, but they found space for the sidewalk and they found space for the parking they found space for everything. So are we thinking about the parking lots when we're thinking about this space 30,000 square feet is a lot of space are we thinking about creative ways to utilize some of those parking lots that have the minimal impact to the public they are our biggest kind of most open unused tracks of land in the city in their Prime locations.

▶ 1:28:46 Speaker 6: I I think at this stage because we don't have a space figured out. I will. Stop sort of thing. All options are on the table, but getting creative with space constraints in Melrose is definitely something that I know we're all thinking about. So

▶ 1:29:04 Paul Brodeur: in every NBA in every Dimension quite frankly, we know that there are parking needs. We recognize that You know, there will be pressure on the Backlot of City Hall Parking because there's the actual construction piece. Plus you need a staging area. So, you know in the short term that is going to eat up some parking but that is that's just a fact a life in the city.

▶ 1:29:30 Ryan Williams: and I'm thinking too not just about the temporary occupation of parking but the permanent use of the land that the parking is on, you know for those buildings.

▶ 1:29:43 Paul Brodeur: I don't also one thing it's a little bit unrelated but in terms of the 2017 study and you know it maybe not providing for future growth folks should understand that that was not, you know a bad faith. peace what that group was charged with was specifically citing things where they were they were that they were not charged with. You know Finding finding an ideal spot or moving to a new location and this group. I guess I gave more leeway, too. Let's say to expand the number of possibilities and I think that's going to help us get to where we need to go in terms of and that that next 50 years the next 75 years.

▶ 1:30:39 Ryan Williams: Last thing I'll say and you made me think about this is I want to thank you. Because I know it's a shocker but I'm gonna do talk right here. It's true. I mean the cities had some bad press over this issue and there's been a lot of grumbling from people some people in the community about it, but you put the people together smart people and they are getting it done and it's the furthest we've come in. I don't know. I mean since I've been here for sure and 1964. Yeah, he's a long time. I meant since I've been here on this Earth. Yeah, and I think credit is is should be given where it's too, you know, your Administration that pulled this off and I I

▶ 1:31:21 Paul Brodeur: I appreciate the commentary. But again this far we're

▶ 1:31:24 Speaker 9: we're not quite on the launch pad. Yeah. Yeah, but I think this is

▶ 1:31:29 Ryan Williams: this is a much. This is a much better. I appreciate the time in the past. It's much more thoughtful much more comprehensive. Yeah. Thank you.

▶ 1:31:40 Leila Migliorelli: Thank you. I just wanted to say thank you as well. I won't believe her the points that all six of you have already made. So eloquently I think you know having seen the condition of our facilities all four buildings with my own eyes four years ago. I can they're not getting any better. I think that as one of you said the the need is is evident. It's not something that you really need to work that hard to show. It's it's horrifically evident, I guess for the the next steps in this, you know, the slide 12 the community engagement schedule. And just making sure that we've you know, we are seeing you develop you all develop the plan over the next few months. I would just I would love to see you know, how we have to Pivot quickly or the city has a pivot quickly to selling the plan. I mean, it's wonderful to engage the council. We are representative of Representatives of the city in the constituents. I I since I want to see this succeed it would be you know, I just want to urge quick turnaround I think as One minor. Well not minor but one part. Chief Fowler touched on it in terms of buildings impacts on communities engine 3 is you know embedded in a residential neighborhood. So just thinking in terms of you know next steps in community engagement. I can imagine that that will you know construction for that site would cause you know concerns and things like that. So I think you know getting ahead of that as quickly as possible. Is just something that kind of popped into my mind, which is different from the other three sites of that. We're looking at or what we there's one unknown site. But thank you. Thank you all very much and looking forward to hearing more in a couple months. Thank you

▶ 1:33:35 Speaker 6: so much for taking your time tonight to hear from us and for your ongoing interest and support.

▶ 1:33:43 Leila Migliorelli: What is the will of the committee?

▶ 1:33:46 Speaker 1: Motion to place on file second motion place

▶ 1:33:48 Leila Migliorelli: on file made by President Grigoraitis seconded by counselor Williams all in favor. Hi any opposed?

▶ 1:33:56 Speaker 4: Motion will be placed on file. Thank you. Thank you. Have

▶ 1:33:58 Speaker 7: a great night.

▶ 1:34:03 Speaker 2: Now we go back to the empty room.

▶ 1:34:05 Leila Migliorelli: Almost asked for a motion to adjourn except we have two more orders on our agenda. Yeah, so going