APPRO-2023-21 : An Appropriation to the planning department to fund the School Facilities Master Plan.

Transcript (~20 min @ 45:52)

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▶ 45:46 Leila Migliorelli: That's unanimous. Yes, so your appointment. will be present in front of the council at our next council meeting. Thank you. Thank you very much.

▶ 45:56 Leila Migliorelli: Next up is appropriation 2023-21 inappropriation of the planning department to fund the school facilities master plan. Tonight we have Denise Gaffey here director of planning department to speak on this order.

▶ 46:16 Denise Gaffey: Thank you. Miss. Kathy. Good night. Good evening. So this is a request from free cash for funds in order to perform a comprehensive school facility master plan study. The last time I studied like this was done was about 25 years ago and at that time the city in the school department collaborated on bringing an architectural firm in to take a comprehensive. Look at all of our school facilities both in terms of their condition, but also in terms of how they were meaning the needs of this of the student population that study back in 1997 was the set the stage for our rebuilding process a couple of our school buildings that were rebuilt including the Lincoln and the Roosevelt, excuse me, the Roosevelt School and then of course the Middle School so so fast forward to today, we are kind of in a different situation we have. Um, we have some buildings that basically, you know, as you know, we have the BB school which is currently being used temporarily as a library space and that is going to become available again next year. And so there's a question about exactly about how that school will be will be used again in the future and there's also some some pretty significant facility needs both at the BB school which we studied extensively last year through a feasibility study process, but also at some of our other facilities, I know you've heard from DBW on and off about some some funding needs in order to meet some of the facility needs and those buildings as well. But I think it's also just a chance to kind of step back and sort of look big picture at where we anticipate enrollment going in the future and how to best serve the needs of the community. Um, and also we we want to be able to set the stage. I think the goal of this study will be to set the stage to apply to the mass School building authority for their next round of core capital projects. The deadline for that is April and so we're obviously not going to be applying this year because we really don't have a great grasp on what our next priority project would be which school facility we would we would would be applying for whether it would be for the BB which we know needs a complete overhaul. Or the Winthrop school, which was also a school that was always considered our sort of the next school on the list for elementary schools for for major Capital project. So we want to take this opportunity between now and then we and next year rather we have about a year to do this kind of comprehensive study bring different members of the community together including obviously the school committee and school department. And community members and kind of study study these issues in a comprehensive way so that we can make a sound decision. When we do apply to the mspa for funding understanding that it can take years for projects to get off the list. So we really need to start thinking about this about this now. Happy to entertain any questions you might have.

▶ 49:39 Speaker 4: Thank you. First I have President gray greatest.

▶ 49:43 Jen Grigoraitis: Thank you madam. Chair. Thank you Denise for being here tonight. I'm thrilled to see this order because I think it's long overdue. So my first question was just it's been since 1997 that we did this what typically would you say is best practice for how often we should be going through a comprehensive study like this to determine, you know feasibility and usage of the buildings.

▶ 50:05 Denise Gaffey: Say I mean 20 25 years is a sort of a reasonable amount of time. Okay, so it's that it's yeah and

▶ 50:11 Jen Grigoraitis: can you and you mentioned the msba timeline. Can you when you say years are we talking one year three years seven years in terms of from when a project is accepted to to actually breaking ground. Just well, I believe it can

▶ 50:25 Denise Gaffey: be a couple years before it even gets invited in to the into the program. And then it's then you you know, you have to go through the different phases of design. So then it's going to be another, you know, probably another couple of years before you actually break ground.

▶ 50:44 Speaker 7: so we could so is it fair to say it could be almost a decade between

▶ 50:47 Denise Gaffey: I'm hoping it's not gonna be okay that long right but it can take quite a few years. Okay.

▶ 50:54 Paul Brodeur: I'm sure if I made might be able to be a little bit helpful on this as members of the school committee know about maybe the members of the council aren't quite as aware of the SBA program is under significant financial challenges right now mostly due to the unprecedented rise in Capitol building costs and so yeah, they're approving fewer projects and they have at least temporarily eliminated partner duct temporarily eliminated the Rapid Repair program, which is a real blow to Melrose for some of our for some of our plans. But I think you captured the beginning we need we need that long term plan regardless because whatever that program looks like we need to be in the best position to take advantage of that.

▶ 51:51 Jen Grigoraitis: Thank you. My only other question was just in terms of using this study to determine the usage of our buildings. That's something that's of the final decision rests with the school committee on what type of programming occurs in those buildings, or is that more of a collaboration with the city? Well,

▶ 52:09 Denise Gaffey: we would hopefully I mean the intent would be to collaborate very closely with them through this process so that we were all on the same page one when the study was complete and making recommendations. Great. Thank you.

▶ 52:24 Paul Brodeur: Counselor there wasn't likely any major project is gone is going to require at least bonding potentially a dead exclusion. And that is the sole power of the city council to to move forward that you know, as you know, the school committee has no independent. Funding or borrowing capacity. So it would almost by definition require that Cooperative effort.

▶ 52:52 Leila Migliorelli: Thank you. Mayor Broder. I'm counselor garapay and then councilor Karamcheti.

▶ 52:56 Mark Garipay: Thank you madam. Chair. Thank you, Ms. Kathy for being here. Just one quick car to a couple quick questions was it last time? We did a study on all the all the city buildings. Is this something that really Should be separate or could we combine it all or is that too much of an undertaking to do all the city buildings? I think it would

▶ 53:18 Denise Gaffey: be a major undertaking to try to combine it with municipal buildings. I think we would also be targeting a consultant that really focuses on school facilities. I think that is kind of a distinct area of architectural study. So I think plus factoring in the enrollment projection piece of that. I think we were best off. Just keeping it to school facilities.

▶ 53:44 Mark Garipay: So the last school one was done in 1997 have we ever done one on any on the city of the city buildings or do we just handle those individually as

▶ 53:54 Denise Gaffey: things as I things arise, I believe they're it's primarily done on an individual basis.

▶ 54:03 Mark Garipay: And if this is to get approved, when when do you think the the bid would go out?

▶ 54:11 Denise Gaffey: I think we want to get it. I think we're going to want to get moving on a pretty quickly to try to get try to hit the ground. So we're ready for like again for then for the deadline next April.

▶ 54:23 Speaker 1: Thank you. No more questions.

▶ 54:25 Speaker 4: Thank you. I'm counselor crime chady and then councilor Williams. Thank you

▶ 54:28 Manjula Karamcheti: so much for being here. I'm also excited to see this on our agenda today. I get a lot of comments from my children about the State of Affairs in many of the school buildings. Just like a very simple question for clarification just to make sure I understand and that the community understands this. Feasibility study is really. required and necessary for there to be a proposal for a new high school building to get funding for that or to move forward with any plans for the BB that kind of thing like this study is essential to any any of those

▶ 55:11 Denise Gaffey: types of processes. Well, I think it's essential for the in order for the community to make the best decision about which direction to go in. I don't think it's not per se of central to the mspa for them to see that we've done this comprehensive master plan, but they would but it is helpful to have the communities Buy in on what the priorities are and what we're our focus should be and so from that sense.

▶ 55:35 Speaker 2: Thank you for that for that. That's very helpful. And then The there isn't a company we would have in mind to run that for us. It would go out to bid as yeah, we

▶ 55:48 Denise Gaffey: would put out a request for proposal, right?

▶ 55:54 Speaker 4: cancer Williams

▶ 55:56 Speaker 9: also

▶ 55:59 Ryan Williams: We're thrilled for this because like president said and like I mean, everybody has said it's it. We all had a lot of us have kids in schools and you know when talking about the public safety buildings. The next thing that comes to mind is like my kids school is all so built in 1964, right? has a bomb shelter sign on the side just in case the you know Russians anyway, so my question about this, is it limited to the Structure does it look at the footprint? In terms of additional uses of land or space so, you know at Hoover we have this big like turnaround that nobody can use anymore and that is just a bunch of asphalt. It just doesn't do anything. Is it comprehensive like that? Are we going to be looking at recreational space or other structures that are like not necessarily put your retaining walls things like this or is it just four walls School building? So I

▶ 56:56 Denise Gaffey: think the primary goal is is to look at it from a facility standpoint. I mean certainly would have to understand the way the site works and see what opportunities there are on each individual site to whether it's to expand the footprint or rebuild on another site part of the site or something like that. But the primary goal is to look at the the actual the spaces the classroom space the educational spaces and

▶ 57:24 Ryan Williams: you mentioned in April deadline. So is this part this is part of a plan to file a specific application to the SBA msba, so yeah, the

▶ 57:34 Denise Gaffey: msba the school building assistance program has they typically and actually they could change their mind next year, but typically their deadline for the What's called the core Capital project. That's when you're applying for either a new school building or a like comprehensive renovation of a school building. They call that the core Capital distinct from The Accelerated repair program, which you know, we also have applied for in the past but the core program is typically their deadline is in April.

▶ 58:04 Ryan Williams: And do you have an idea of what the application will be focused on or is that the purpose of this?

▶ 58:12 Denise Gaffey: Project. So the application actually it's one it's it's a similar to when we we have a we come to the council for a statement of interest to apply the the application itself is not particularly onerous. It's but there are some forms. We need to fill out just describing what the need is and so it'll be help this process will be really helpful for us in terms of identifying that and identifying there'll be very interested in knowing to what our enrollment projections are and whether we are squeezed for space in any particular location because that ends up becoming a priority as a mayor mentioned they get a lot of requests for these these projects and so they do prioritize enrollment issues or constraints like like

▶ 59:01 Ryan Williams: that. So at the end of the day we take this report and it has a recommendation or we as a you know Community decide that this is the best bang for our buck and then come April. We apply for a grant for that. And do something rebuild it build a new one fix it whatever right? That

▶ 59:15 Denise Gaffey: is our that is a goal. Yeah. Okay. Thank

▶ 59:19 Speaker 9: you.

▶ 59:22 Shawn M. MacMaster: Counselor McMaster, thank you. Madam. Chair. Good evening, Miss Kathy. The order is reflected on the agenda does not include an appropriation amount of the bottom of page two lists cost of 125,000 is that that is that is correct. Yes, and that's and that's an estimate. That is

▶ 59:39 Denise Gaffey: an estimate. That is the same estimate that we carried a year ago. When we did the CIP process and I meant to just mention that it is this project did rank highly by the CIP committee last year when it was presented as one of the 60 or 70 projects that we the committee ranked. I think it ranked as the project project link number 12, but yes that is based on an estimate based on some conversations that I've had with other fur with firms that do this kind of work.

▶ 1:00:09 Shawn M. MacMaster: Does that come in on the lower end of an estimate? Is it more than average and I'm wondering whether it's not the council will

▶ 1:00:14 Denise Gaffey: kind of more on an average. It feels like an appropriate number.

▶ 1:00:20 Speaker 1: with the possibility that

▶ 1:00:22 Shawn M. MacMaster: We could see you in the future for additional money if the

▶ 1:00:27 Denise Gaffey: cost succeed. Well, it would only be if I mean if we put it out to to bid and got numbers that were higher than that. We would know right away. In other words. It wouldn't we wouldn't be in the middle of the process and run out of money.

▶ 1:00:41 Speaker 1: All right. Thank you. Sure.

▶ 1:00:43 Speaker 4: counselor Eccles and counselor Stewart

▶ 1:00:46 Jack Eccles: Thank you. Madam. Chair. Thank you. Miss. Gaffy for being here. Is it deliverable for this project actually filling out the application or is it just the master plan? And then your office it's

▶ 1:00:55 Denise Gaffey: the study and like I said the application itself is not all that is not particularly onerous. So that's something we would do with the school department in that

▶ 1:01:03 Jack Eccles: application would come before the council. Yeah. Yeah,

▶ 1:01:06 Denise Gaffey: they they always require a vote of both the school committee and the council.

▶ 1:01:16 Robb Stewart: Counselor Stewart. Thank you madam chair. Thank you for being here this evening. The outcome of this study will it have Financial ramifications? In other words? Will they? Provide estimates of current day. Yeah across the board of what's going to take. Yes, we will we will raise across the different schools and we provide options we

▶ 1:01:37 Denise Gaffey: will include that we will include they will provide options. Yes.

▶ 1:01:40 Robb Stewart: When you anticipate this to be done.

▶ 1:01:45 Denise Gaffey: So again, I mean the goal is for to set us up for for next April so sometime by February or so next year.

▶ 1:01:57 Robb Stewart: Okay, and so you have to go put out the bids establish and start how long how long it is this take? I mean, I

▶ 1:02:05 Denise Gaffey: think it would take about. six months six to eight months for architect affirm to work on

▶ 1:02:15 Robb Stewart: okay, so we would need to get going by August we

▶ 1:02:19 Denise Gaffey: need to get going. That's right. Okay. All

▶ 1:02:21 Robb Stewart: right. Thank you.

▶ 1:02:25 Speaker 4: anyone else

▶ 1:02:28 Speaker 3: I'm sure if I may as I want to mention something about Council gaffes excellent question about

▶ 1:02:38 Paul Brodeur: what about everything else which is always something we should keep in mind and candidly some we haven't done a great job at as a community but to a certain degree the good news. Is this over the past several years. We have gone through this process with the library with Memorial Hall with the salt shed. And when the midst of it with our public safety building, so to a certain degree the good news is In the short term, there isn't a heck of a lot left. We certainly always need to be thinking about. City Hall itself and our

▶ 1:03:21 Paul Brodeur: other DBW facilities, but the attention to Capital needs has to be sustained and it's led to some of the things we've been able to do and I think this fits that model very well. I hope the council approves the measure.

▶ 1:03:38 Leila Migliorelli: man, brother, I just have Two questions for you, Denise, you mentioned Community involvement. Was that something that happens with the like so you before you get this plan, you'll be inviting members of the community to participate in assessing it or later on in the process. I think

▶ 1:03:56 Denise Gaffey: it would be nice to put together a committee that had a kind of a cross section of people on it. I haven't given a lot of thought to that. I don't think it would be my decision. But when looking back in 1997 and how they structured that effort, they look like they had sort of a cross-section of people on a committee. Okay, and

▶ 1:04:14 Leila Migliorelli: just I guess maybe looking thinking back to 1997 the involvement of the superintendent. What would that be in that? We're in the middle of a superintendent? Is that how critical

▶ 1:04:24 Denise Gaffey: is that person? I mean ideally the superintendent would be on the committee. Okay, but you know, I'm if it's an interim superintendent, then that person certainly the business manager, you We wouldn't encourage his participation. Thank you

▶ 1:04:40 Leila Migliorelli: and just want to Echo my colleagues and saying that this is I'm excited. This is coming forward. I also have a child to complains regularly about the facilities. So I look forward to being able to go home and tell him that something is being done. So thank you any other questions or of entertain a motion motion to recommend passage second. Most rank men beat by counselor snellas second of my counselor Eccles.

▶ 1:05:05 Speaker 1: Vice chair Jamal Dean

▶ 1:05:07 Speaker 4: Yes.

▶ 1:05:08 Speaker 1: Counselor McMaster. Yes counselor. Sonella. Yes counselor Eccles. Yes kelsegrity. Yes counselor Stewart. Yes councilor. Karmchetti. Yes counselor bremski. Yes counselor Williams. Yes, president agoritis. Yes and cheer legally. Yes, that's unanimous.

▶ 1:05:27 Speaker 4: Thank you. Thank you Kathy. Thank you. And I guess it tight.

▶ 1:05:31 Leila Migliorelli: For our next order which is ordered 2023-59 amending Melrose revised or zoning ordinance chapter 235 various provisions.

▶ 1:05:43 Speaker 4: Thank you.

▶ 1:05:45 Speaker 9: Great Lord's yours wearing. My

▶ 1:05:47 Denise Gaffey: other hat. I'm also going to welcome Greg Sampson up here if that's okay. Yes, Greg is the chairman of the planning board. Thank you, Mr. Samson. So we're happy to be here tonight to follow up on the the zoning initiative that the planning board sent down a couple of months ago.