ORDNC-2023-4 : Amending Revised City Ordinance Chapter 24 Departments Article III Inspectional Services Department § 24-34 Fee Schedules and Chapter 56 Officers and Employees Article VI Sealer of Weights and Measures § 56-37 Collection and disposition of fees

Transcript (~22 min @ 16:44)

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▶ 16:34 Ryan Williams: Second. Thank you very much. Uh, so we have a motion to recommend my counselor, Eccles, seconded by Counselor Jamine. All in favor? Aye. Aye. Aye. Okay. Okay. That one passes as well. Uh, next up, ordinance 2023 dash four amending Revised City Ordinance Chapter 24 departments, articles three, inspection Service department Section 24 through 34 fee schedules and Chapter 56 officers and employed. Article six, sealer of Weights and Measures Section 56 through 37, collection and disposition of fees. And we have someone from the administration. We're still operating under suspension of the rules, so, uh, the Director of Inspection services could please come forward and let us know what this is all about.

▶ 17:35 Speaker 6: Well, thank you everybody for giving me the opportunity to, uh, discuss the proposal to change and amend the, uh, fee schedule for the building department and the weights and measures. Um, as I stated in my letter, um, you know, we, we, we typically need to look at these fees every, uh, five to six years just to make sure that they're in line with surrounding communities and industry standards, um, staffing levels. Um, and, um, after of review, um, the last time these fees were updated were May of, uh, 2013. Um, uh, my proposal, I feel is, um, pretty reasonable proposal compared to the other communities. Um, I compared, um, I compared the, uh, the communities I compared, uh, was, uh, were, uh, Winchester Stoneham and, um, Watertown. Um, I know I gave all of you a lot of information, uh, regarding how I came to, um, my, um, my, my, my rates. Um, so, um,

▶ 18:45 Speaker 6: there's a lot to digest. I'd rather just dive in and answer any questions that you or, uh, some of the counselors have, uh, regarding, uh, the proposal. Um, but basically if, um, what I'm looking at are to revise the, uh, building permits from, uh, 15, from $12 per thousand to $15 per thousand, I wanted to add a after hours inspections. Um, we currently don't have that. Um, and there it's been, uh, several requests in the past. And, uh, I'm, I'm in other communities that I work for. Um, they've always asked for those. So I've added that, that, uh, to the fee schedule. Um, there's always, there isn't, um, we don't have any mechanism or anything in our ordinances to charge for extensions. Um, I add that fee, um, uh, and, uh, electrical, the electrical permits I took a look at to see if there was any adjustments that needed to be made there. Um, I looked at the solar panels. Uh, I believe that, um, right now we're charging $100 per, uh, flat fee. Um, my proposal is to change that to $200 flat fee. We also have mini splits, heat pumps, uh, a new category that, uh, wasn't around or wasn't prevalent back in 2013 that I wanted to add to the H V A C, um, line item of the electrical permit, uh, which is, um, an increase to, well, not an increase, a new fee of $75 for residential and $100 for commercial. And under the electrical, uh, I wanted to change hot tubs to a $50. Um, I also added a fee here that I don't believe I, um, I put in my memo and, um, I have added it, and I can relay that information later on to the committee. Um, to add water heaters, um, from $30 to $40 for residential and to $60 for commercial plumbing and gas permits. I wanted to remove the language. Um, basically eliminating that, uh, if someone is, um, applying for a permit for gas and, um, plumbing at the same time that they would only be charged one administrative fee. I felt that these permits are separate. Um, our system, um, doesn't have a mechanism to, uh, even separate, uh, to withdraw those fees. And, um, as you know, uh, a lot of time goes into these applications, uh, on their own. Uh, and I felt that, uh, we should be charging individual, uh, $15 administrative fees for, for these, um, for that line item.

▶ 21:50 Speaker 6: Um, I also wanted to add residential, a minimum fee for residential that we don't have currently in the gas and plumbing permits of a minimum of $30 for residential and commercial, $75. Um, I feel that it's a reasonable rate, um, for an inspector to go out there and, um, uh, just, uh, to take a look at, um, some of these inspections to recoup funds for, um, for their services. And lastly, was the, uh, water heaters for, uh, plumbing and gas. Um, again, $40 for residential commercial, $60. Uh, in addition to that, uh, the weights and measures, there's a lot of fees on that schedule. I don't want to go through all of them unless there's some specific questions. I think I've highlighted the reasoning behind my proposal. Um, we just don't charge enough to, um, uh, for the services that, that we render. Uh, and they're very modest. Uh, we don't have a lot of inspections on the, for this category as you can see. Um, and I think the, the, the rates that I'm looking at, um, it's a modest increase of 1800 per year for all of these services under that, uh, which measures category. With that, I can take any questions that you may have. I know I, I've given you some,

▶ 23:20 Speaker 6: uh, um, details on what, uh, what the changes would, uh, do, uh, as far as increase in revenue. Um, I added, I put some proposal, uh, on there for what, what they would be for the current rate for $14 per thousand for $16 per thousand. But I feel that $15 per thousand is a reasonable rate compared to the other communities, uh, around this area. Um, so with that, I can take any questions you may have.

▶ 23:50 Ryan Williams: Thank you. Any questions from committee members? Councilor Greg?

▶ 23:54 Jen Grigoraitis: Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you for being here tonight and for providing so much detailed information. Um, my first question is mostly just procedural. I mean, so what, what's being asked of this group tonight is to motion to recommend amendments to the city code, which aren't articulated in the order itself. So we'd be referring to your memo. So you mentioned there's something that's not in your memo that you want us to consider. I'm not quite sure that we can actually procedurally do that tonight because we don't have something to amend that includes that, um, language. But could you talk a little bit about what's missing that you wanted to have included?

▶ 24:28 Speaker 6: Sure. Uh, as part of the package that I sent to the council, there is, uh, the proposed fee schedule changes. That is essentially a copy of, um, the order in our, um, Melrose, uh, zoning ordinance. I, I, uh, and what I did was in that, in that, uh, in those detail, I've crossed out the sections when, which need to be changed. Um, so under the building fees, administrative fees, um, I've changed, uh, to, uh, um, section A building permit fees, subcategory a one of two family construction reconstruction alterations. You can see that I've highlighted, or I've crossed out the $12 per thousand, and I've added in the $15 per thousand costs. So I'm not sure if, have you gotten, these are the changes that I'm recommending.

▶ 25:25 Jen Grigoraitis: Right. Sorry, I see a memo. Maybe I'm missing something else, but I can look, I guess. But I thought you mentioned when you were speaking earlier, there was a change that isn't documented that you wanted us to consider.

▶ 25:36 Speaker 6: Well, this is the document.

▶ 25:38 Jen Grigoraitis: Oh, okay. I, sorry, I misunderstood it. I thought you were saying there was something that isn't in the document that you wanted to talk about tonight.

▶ 25:43 Speaker 6: Okay. So after, um, and I'm sorry, you're, you're right. So after I, I've been doing this for several months, so sometimes I add something in and I added it to my memo, but I didn't add it to the fees. Yep. Okay. Um, so one of the items that I caught while reviewing my, uh, communications to the council was that under the electrical section of the fees, I didn't, did not add

▶ 26:17 Speaker 6: water heaters.

▶ 26:19 Jen Grigoraitis: Okay. So under, so in section B of the proposed fee schedule? Yes. Okay.

▶ 26:22 Speaker 6: Um, and that would be

▶ 26:31 Speaker 6: mine item.

▶ 26:38 Speaker 6: It would be line item add water heaters, and $30 to $40. So it would change what the water heaters right now are. And,

▶ 27:05 Speaker 6: um, one minute just to find them

▶ 27:16 Speaker 6: electric water heaters.

▶ 27:30 Speaker 6: Okay. So it's in page four under miscellaneous,

▶ 27:41 Speaker 6: and it's letter D as in David. Mm-hmm. There's a lot there, counselor. Um, and under water heaters. Yep. Okay. You can strike the 30 and add residential and commercial. Residential would be $40 and commercial would be $60. Okay.

▶ 28:01 Speaker 3: Thank You.

▶ 28:03 Speaker 6: And that wasn't under my memo. Okay. But it was under the fees.

▶ 28:08 Jen Grigoraitis: Right. Okay. I think I, for me at least, it's all one document so that the clarification is helpful. Um, and then can you talk a little bit about with the heat pumps, I know that that's new, obviously that technology didn't exist in 2013, but given the fact that we have a net zero goal for the city, that that's something that we, you know, it's a type of, um, technology we'd really like folks to adopt. Is it that we're, what's the driver for putting in a specific permit for that? Is it that we're seeing a ton of them that they're really labor intensive or specialized type of inspection?

▶ 28:44 Speaker 6: Well, um, there really isn't a category for the, for, um, heat pumps and mini splits, um, under our ordinances. And that's, uh, more or less a lot of communities. They, they typically want to, uh, because there's no category we don't know how to charge sometimes. So I want it to be specific when we are looking at the schedule to be able to charge for certain, uh, services that we render. And right now, um, central air conditioning, which is one of the categories, it's really, we have both central air conditioning and we have heat pumps now. So I wanted to change that to have a category of H V A C, and I wanted specifically to add something that, um, would be able to be seen by contractors where they could see why they're getting charged for something. Okay.

▶ 29:34 Speaker 3: Thank you. Yeah, thank you, Mr. Chair.

▶ 29:37 Speaker 4: Any other questions?

▶ 29:40 Ryan Williams: Okay. Well, I have some thoughts. Um, it's sort of in line with what councilor, excuse me, president Greg Ratti brought up. Um, I wanted to talk a little bit about the solar permitting fee. And you and I talked about this earlier today, Mr. Teleco. So I, you know, where I'm coming from, similar to the net zero commitment for, um, uh, to the discussion around net zero commitments, um, and the impact of permitting costs on many splits and heat pumps. You know, Melrose back in 2017 became a soul smart community, and we were given this innovation award for our, our, uh, low cost of, of permitting solar. And, um, I would like to keep the cost of permitting solar the same as it is now. Right. So, for one reason, when I look at the other communities that you've mentioned here, in the order only Stoneham has a solar permit, a separate solar permit, um, fee, and it's only a hundred dollars. Um, and on a kind of policy note, I feel that something like solar, which has a lot of external benefits to the community in terms of helping strengthen the grid, preventing blackouts from, you know, overloads during super hot honey days, which we've super hot sunny days, which we've had quite a few of, that we should keep the solar permit where it's at, um, at a hundred dollars. And, uh, the rest of it, I think you're absolutely correct. It's the responsibility of the department to make sure that it can provide the services it needs to. We've all heard that permitting is, has been in the past kind of a bottleneck for people in Melrose. So it's, you know, no question that like, getting the money that we need to do the services that we need to do is correct. I think with this one, uh, with this one charge, since it's already set at a hundred dollars, and that's what pure communities are charging, if anything, um, that, that we should be keeping it there. Um, but I wanted to ask you a follow up question that I didn't get to ask you yesterday or earlier today on the phone. If you could help me understand the process for a person who's permitting a solar installation to make sure that I fully understand this, in my mind, when someone calls the bill or a contractor calls the building department and says, we're doing solar in Melrose, they pay the per thousand project fee, right? Whatever that is. They do, they pay a permit fee and a solar fee, electrical permit fee, and a solar fee. Okay. Alright. So it's not like the solar permit fee kind of enc, it doesn't encompass not a package deal, it doesn't encompass other permits. Okay. Okay.

▶ 32:19 Speaker 6: That's with every community. So, uh, Stoneham, um, uh, although their rates at are $13 per thousand, they charge for a, um, a plan review fee. So if you took that plan review fee, and a typical installation, let's say it's $25,000, and let me, I, I'm gonna try to do the math in my head, but, um, so if you took, um, um, you know, um, $13 per thousand, $25,000, uh, and then add that a hundred dollars fee to, it ends up being close to, I think it's 4 25, um, on our end with the, um, and that's just for the building permit fee without, you know, um, without charging the electrical fee, uh, that they have, uh, it would be $525 mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. On our end, we're closer with $15 per thousand, $25,000, um, plus a $15 administrative fee. We're, we're at, like, at, uh, three 70. So, um, although you're seeing them at that a hundred dollars, uh, for the electrical fee, there's, there's other fees that are included that associated with that work. Mm-hmm. Regardless of, of what they do. Um, and, uh, you know, some of the fees that I know that I paid in Stoneham that we don't pay here, and I didn't put in my proposal was a dumpster fee Mm. That the board of health ha actually has to issue. And I believe that's $50 for any work that you do in Stoneham. So, um, just to, um, reiterate some of the things you said, I, um, you know, we, I'm glad that you feel that, uh, you know, that, uh, this is our, our responsibility. We need to make sure that these are in line and, um, you know, I based my analysis for these not on whether it's a good thing whether we can pay for it and justify those costs through the inspections. So when I'm looking at solar panels, I say, okay, my electrical inspector spends more time during these installations that he would on any other, uh, typical installation for electrical, even a, a renovation for a kitchen. When he goes in there, he needs to see the meter, he needs to see the, he needs to go up to the roof, make sure the connection's done inside the home. He needs to see that the, uh, panel is, is, uh, properly done. He also needs to see that the, um, um, inverter is probably and, and, uh, installed correctly. So there's, there's a lot involved in those. Um, I know, um, other communities as we discussed, they're looking at it from a kilowatt. Mm-hmm. Uh, where you charge per kilowatt up 5,000 kilowatts is a typical installation of 18 panels, um, in, in Melrose. And typically a hundred dollars, uh, anything over that they charge $20 per kilowatt. Um, something will look at on the commercial end. Um, but I felt that that $200 were, was less than other communities, even though you're seeing that a hundred dollars in, in Stoneham. Um, but again, uh, I, this is a proposal. Um, uh, if, if, uh, you know, uh, the committee feels that it's, uh, it's not in line and that, that's, that's quite all right.

▶ 35:49 Ryan Williams: Well, I, I would say, I wouldn't say that, that the proposal's not in line, right. This particular item, it's a question of how we send the signal to incentivize people to do this thing that we all need to do so badly. Right. Which is to convert our homes into more sustainable and cleaner energy sources. Mm-hmm. Um, I am interested, since you brought up commercial Configurations, and I don't want to tackle it tonight because it would be too complicated, but we should put together a proposal for commercial solar installations that would be stuck in here somewhere that addresses all the things you talk about, you know, because certainly if we have a number of large apartment buildings or condo buildings and they want to add solar, I know there's been a few developers who have kind of, you know, talked a lot about their solar ready roofs and things like that. It would be, I think it would be perfectly fine to have a little bit higher fee on the commercial side to, to try and balance some of the, you know, some of that revenue out of the, out of the, um, solar side. So, uh, any further questions from the, from the committee? I, so for this, um, I would entertain a motion from a member of the committee if they were so inclined to recommend this order for passage with the following language

▶ 37:05 Ryan Williams: amendments on section.

▶ 37:13 Speaker 4: I'm gonna get there, I'm gonna get there.

▶ 37:20 Speaker 6: It's a pretty lengthy schedule.

▶ 37:22 Speaker 4: Uh, I got it, I got it, I got it. On section 13

▶ 37:29 Ryan Williams: of the new, cause we have the struck out and then the new, um, numbers. So in the new numbers, section 13, miscellaneous under Section G solar panels, I would strike the $200 flat fee and retain the $100 fee for solar panels under Section G. So again, the motion is to recommend this for passage with a language adjustment under section 13 G, that the solar panel fee be reduced from $200 to $100.

▶ 38:08 Jack Eccles: I would make a motion, I think we have to make a motion to amend and then recommend. So I would, I would make that motion to amend section G from $200 to $100.

▶ 38:25 Speaker 4: We're looking for a second on that. One

▶ 38:28 Speaker 3: Second.

▶ 38:31 Ryan Williams: Thank you. So we have a motion to amend the order, uh, ordinance 2023 dash four to change section 13 G from the solar panel fee from $200 to $100. Um, all in favor, aye. Aye.

▶ 38:46 Ryan Williams: Any opposed? Okay. That passes. Um,

▶ 38:49 Speaker 5: Make a motion to recommend as amended.

▶ 38:55 Ryan Williams: I have a motion on the floor made by Councilor Eccles to recommend the most, uh, order as amended. Second. Second by President Grigoraitis Attis. All in favor? Aye. Aye. Any opposed? Okay. That passes as amended. Thank you very much.

▶ 39:09 Speaker 6: No Problem. I, um, I will send an, um, uh, amended sheet. Thank you for, Uh, council review, the final Thank you.