Department Budget Presentations

Transcript (~53 min @ 1:33)

Speakers identified by voice; unnamed voices are numbered within this recording. Auto-caption text — verify against the video.

▶ 0:56 Mark Garipay: There is not. No, there is no one online. If there's no objection, I will close the public. Um, comment, uh, portion of the meeting with the unanimous consent, public comment is now closed. We'll move on to, uh, committee minutes approval. This time I will motion by unanimous consent to approve without reading the minutes of the May 8th, 2025 appropriation and oversight budget hearing meeting the May 27th, 2025 appropriation and oversight committee meeting, and the April 14th, 2025 appropriation, appropriation and oversight committee meeting. Seeing no objection, those minutes are now approved. Bless you. Thank you. Um, moving on to department, uh, budget presentations. First up, we have Department 2 21 Fire Department. We have Chief White with us today. Welcome, chief.

▶ 1:50 Speaker 2: Good evening. Hope you're cool. Scott Hut There.

▶ 2:05 Speaker 1: The floor's yours, chief. Okay, thank you. Yep.

▶ 2:11 Speaker 1: Well, thank you for letting me come in today. Present our budget proposal for FY 26.

▶ 2:17 Speaker 1: Um, just to have, say a few things, how the sheet has gone. Um, as part of the city's broad effort to optimize municipal spending, made office conducted a review of Department of Budgets, adjusted the fire department's 30 line items for the upcoming fiscal year. As a result, seven budget lines were reduced, five were eliminated. Due to consistent underutilization or lack of demonstrated need, the fire department remains fully capable of operating effectively and continuing to meet its service obligations. Adjustment reflects collaborative approach to fiscal stewardship, ensuring that public funds are allocated to the areas of highest impact.

▶ 2:57 Speaker 1: Um, the ambulance service update. Um, after consider careful consideration, fire department has made a difficult decision to include the city operated ambulance service. This decision was driven primarily by ongoing staffing challenges that have increasingly impacted the struggle to fill ambulance shifts, resulting in forced or holdovers and extreme overtime costs. Despite our best efforts to recruit and retain qualified personnel, maintaining a fully staffed in-house ambulance service has proven unsustainable to ensure uninterrupted high quality emergency care for our residents. We have transitioned ambulance services to Armstrong Ambulance, who undoubtedly have the resources and expertise to meet our community needs. This change allows us to maintain the standard of care that our residents expect while addressing the operational realities that we are currently

▶ 3:49 Speaker 3: facing For.

▶ 3:55 Speaker 1: So in this year's budget of FY 26, um, FY 25 budget was 4,000,424 $604. It's been increased 17.6% to 5,201,301. Um, that's due to increase support staffing needs of 51 employees and new contract rates. The overtime for training was increased 15% from 10,000

▶ 4:24 Speaker 3: to 11,500.

▶ 4:25 Speaker 1: And that's to support ongoing fire training and professional development. Next line, on the professional services, um, for FY 25, we have $37,912. And this cost was split between the fire budget and the ambulance budget. This year, we proposed an increase of 31.9% for $50,000. Um, the reasoning for that is because our trucks still will go to medical aids. We still need to have professional services, um, that since we won't have the ambulance, we won't have that source of income.

▶ 5:03 Speaker 3: We won't have that budget to pull half of that cost from.

▶ 5:07 Speaker 1: Um, And then cleaning station supplies was increased

▶ 5:13 Speaker 3: a thousand dollars up, 16.7% to $7,000.

▶ 5:17 Speaker 1: Um, New line item. This was talking about to support the ongoing need, we have added a new $25,000 line item for EMS supplies. This will cover, this fund will cover the cost of critical medical supplies and equipment maintenance for our first responders. Could continue to continue delivering lifesaving

▶ 5:35 Speaker 3: care in the field.

▶ 5:39 Speaker 1: So some of the items that have been eliminated from our budget is the mutual aid line item, which is 1500. It was eliminated for lack of need. Computer purchases also was eliminated of 2000. Underutilized gas and oil line 500 lack of need. Paints was underutilized at 500 in turnout gear, which was 75,000, has been provided in free cash with the, uh, eliminated

▶ 6:08 Speaker 3: of 79,500 total.

▶ 6:10 Speaker 1: And then the decreases under motor vehicle repairs, we have a 20% decrease of $20,000. Um, radio contracts, a 25 9% decrease to 3,500. Tie is a decrease of 1500 minus 25%. Batteries minus 50%, 750 minus and fire alarm system is minus 20%, minus $2,000.

▶ 6:40 Speaker 3: Then uniforms minus 8,000, which is minus eight $5,000.

▶ 6:42 Speaker 1: And educational reimbursement is down 4,356 for total decrease of 37,106, making the total decrease in our budget, $116,606.

▶ 7:00 Speaker 1: Um, as you we all know, we have been, um, severely burdened from being able to not hire

▶ 7:07 Speaker 3: and retain firefighter, firefighter paramedics

▶ 7:09 Speaker 1: and which has created an incredible burden on our overtime.

▶ 7:14 Speaker 1: Um, Just as our staffing going from July of 23, rapid at 53, um, staffing, um, went down October to 49. January 24 we're 48. April, we're back to 50 July, 24 51. October 24 52. January 25, 54. Then in April, two more folks retired and we're down to 52 again, um, creating a burden, um, that I believe we're gonna be able to get control of with this budget.

▶ 7:50 Speaker 1: Um, we were also award in and Grants 4,022 from the Firefighter Safety Grant to help purchase SCBA mask and Thermal imaging cameras. We hired six firefighters between July and December. Um, this year we responded to 4,276 calls. We have promotions, um, promoted Ian McGregor to a permanent lieutenant c Parsons were promoted to permanent captain and Michael Bell was just promoted to lieutenant. We had retirements of firefighter, Chris Walsh, firefighter Bill Star, and at the end of this month be Lieutenant Ken

▶ 8:26 Speaker 3: Kenneth McIntosh.

▶ 8:32 Speaker 1: Um, And that's what's happened this past year

▶ 8:36 Speaker 3: and how we've come about our current budget.

▶ 8:38 Speaker 1: The proposal for this year,

▶ 8:43 Speaker 1: Um, So this year's budget, we are proposed a budget of $5,201,301, which is up 17%.

▶ 8:52 Speaker 3: Um, in the salaries and wages overtime.

▶ 8:55 Speaker 1: Budget will remain the same as last year.

▶ 9:01 Speaker 1: Um, projected of the original budget was 409,000.

▶ 9:04 Speaker 3: It's back to 409,300. So that stays the same.

▶ 9:09 Speaker 1: Um, as we go down overtime training is increased by 15%.

▶ 9:13 Speaker 3: It went up, uh, 1,100 $500.

▶ 9:18 Speaker 1: Um, Coming to a total staff for salaries with an increase of 15.8%

▶ 9:23 Speaker 3: to 5,702 $101.

▶ 9:29 Speaker 1: Um, Going through the rest of the, by the contractual items, um, that's down 6.8%.

▶ 9:37 Speaker 1: Then supplies and materials is down. Proposed budget for this year will be down 36.4%.

▶ 9:46 Speaker 4: Excuse Me. Other charges

▶ 9:49 Speaker 3: will remain flat at 0% changed.

▶ 9:52 Speaker 1: And then under, uh, miscellaneous, the education reimbursement will be down 17.9% reflected in total proposed budget of 5,989 $801,

▶ 10:05 Speaker 3: which is up 13.2%. It is our proposed budget.

▶ 10:14 Speaker 2: Thank you, chief. Um,

▶ 10:15 Mark Garipay: does any councilors have any questions? Council Ro, councilor William, council ra, then Williams and Council Vanderberg.

▶ 10:23 Cal Finocchiaro: Thank you Chair. Um, thanks for the explanation of all those numbers. Um, I have a question about the firefighters that you staff. How many do you need in total to run the department? I know you said there's 52 and then it's 48. What's the number that you're comfortable with

▶ 10:42 Speaker 1: For right now? We're comfortable at, they always ask me this number.

▶ 10:47 Speaker 1: I never remember it, but, um, so we have four on the ladder truck, three on each pump, which six x 10 fire alarm operator.

▶ 10:59 Speaker 1: Um, that's 11 over 44. 44 groups is firefighters. And there's staff of, um, myself, captain Gibson

▶ 11:09 Speaker 1: and Rachel Financial. So it's, we are roughly Should Be around 50 firefighters. So right now, as it stands, since we've transferred over to Armstrong Ambulance, we now don't have, we were running six, uh, six firefighters down. Now we are back to, we have four on the ladder truck and that fourth member on the ladder truck, we'll be able to, if someone on that group is out sick or on vacation, we are able to cover that. It was the past few years, it's been practically man

▶ 11:42 Speaker 3: for man overtime for all that stuff.

▶ 11:43 Speaker 1: So hopefully we have, basically saying we have one man on

▶ 11:48 Speaker 3: the bench, on, on the four groups is what we have for staffing now.

▶ 11:51 Speaker 5: So 50 is a comfortable number to run.

▶ 11:53 Speaker 1: It's it's about a comfortable number. Yeah.

▶ 11:55 Cal Finocchiaro: And you feel like you won't, like, I know that overtime,

▶ 11:59 Speaker 5: um, for this year to date is pretty high. Is that because of the staffing issues?

▶ 12:03 Speaker 1: It's because, yes. 'cause we were down, when we were running the ambulance, we were down six firefighters there, we couldn't staff the ambulance with. And so we were filling that all with overtime. Um, which, you know, resulted in when people didn't take the overtime. We had the last 23 and 24, we had over 700 holdovers. Um, and that's not counting. And those were all paid overtimes, but those were people who weren't able

▶ 12:30 Speaker 3: to go home at the end of their shift.

▶ 12:31 Cal Finocchiaro: Yeah, I, I, I know that that is taxing on the firefighters to do so many overtimes. Um, so, um, I, I guess moving forward, you think that we're good that at a good spot right now with or No,

▶ 12:43 Speaker 1: I think we're at a very good spot right now. Okay. Um, I think without anything unforeseen happening, um, we did carry, um, two of the firefighters that I mentioned retired. They were on long-term sick, um, and they finally retired. Mm-hmm. Um, we had injuries, um, maternity leaves, all those things that we still have to deal with. Mm-hmm. Um, but I think our number should be able to deal that, especially where, like I say, we essentially have one man on the bench that we can have. My other thing, I have one firefighter attend the academy now. She'll be done in August. Another one will start at the end of June. He should be done at the end of September. And those will be the last firefighters have to senate the academy.

▶ 13:28 Speaker 3: And I just have one left in paramedic school who will finish in September.

▶ 13:31 Speaker 1: Right. And that will be, um, for the foresee, other than vacations, any staffing issues I don't see other than, uh,

▶ 13:40 Speaker 3: any schedule staffing issues I don't have at the moment.

▶ 13:45 Speaker 5: Great. Thank you. That's all.

▶ 13:47 Speaker 2: Thank you. Council. Council

▶ 13:49 Speaker 6: Williams. Yeah. Thank you.

▶ 13:53 Ryan Williams: Um, hello. Hi. Hi. Thank you for being here. Um, so I have a, I have a couple of questions that I'm hoping that you can help me frame the overall cost of the budget, particularly around, particularly around salaries, um, because I'm not sort of not understanding the trajectory of it. And let me sort of show you what I'm seeing. And I know you threw a lot of information at us, so please forgive me. You might have to repeat yourself once or twice. Um, we're looking at a 2025 budget of 4.9 million. It's revised up to 5.4 million, almost basically $500,000 over almost to the dollar. And then because of the ambulance situation with the overtime, we wind up spending another $200,000 over that. And a lot of that is the shift from salary costs into overtime. I could see that. Then when we go to the 2026 budget, I see the overtime going back down to the way that it was in 2025 and 2020. Um, well, the budgeted way that it was in 2025, but the salary line sort of picks up all of the extra revenue, a million $0.20. Um, and so the overall budget over time goes from 5.4 in 2025. We've currently spent 5.6 at this point in time, and we're looking to spend 5.7. And so we've been sitting here and we've been hearing a lot of departments and I just, I haven't seen a salary increase like that, um, in any of the departments. Mostly we're seeing cuts or we're seeing, you know, minor, minor differences. Um, so could you just help me sort of understand like if this is the new normal, why is it the new normal? Why are we budgeting for, um, you know, like $800,000 of additional salaries over the 2025 original budget? Um, and, and are we gonna get hit with this and an overtime bump down the road?

▶ 15:55 Speaker 3: We should not be hit with the overtime bump down the road.

▶ 15:57 Speaker 1: I mean, barring anything that I can't see in the future. We are not, we are not, not now not in the position to have to hire paramedics, which was a huge burden. We could not find any, I hired six people this year. There was training for those people had to go to the academy. They had to be oriented. There was overtime costs and all of that for the people to train them. And then when they went to the academy to backfill them. Um, so like I said, I have two that are gonna finish up by September and that's it. I should be fully, i'll fully staffed as of that date. So with the contractual obligations, with the collective buying agreement, that's the increase you see up. But the overtime should be pretty darn close

▶ 16:41 Speaker 3: to that 4 89.

▶ 16:44 Speaker 1: That's, um, that's barring, you know, forcing any injuries, any long-term injuries, any long-term, six maternity leave, anything like that. Um, as long as nothing crazy happens in that respect,

▶ 17:01 Speaker 3: I'm hoping I should not be back here like I have been.

▶ 17:05 Ryan Williams: So, so are, are we budgeting a 17% salary increase because of the collective bargaining agreements?

▶ 17:13 Speaker 1: Basically? Yes. The, um, the salaries that two salaries, the ambulance part of the budget that we don't have anymore paid for eight, but we were down six, so we're still paying for two now they're back to the fireside.

▶ 17:29 Speaker 3: And so that's, that bump comes out of that one. So it's gotta go up on the fire end.

▶ 17:34 Speaker 1: Um, so that collect, I mean, I think that comes up maybe

▶ 17:40 Speaker 3: two salaries come up into the bite that were in the ambulance side.

▶ 17:44 Speaker 1: Yeah. That's not counting the six that we didn't have,

▶ 17:50 Speaker 3: that we were playing, that were budgeted in 2025

▶ 17:53 Speaker 1: that weren't there, but we had

▶ 17:54 Speaker 3: to fill them with all overtimes.

▶ 17:55 Ryan Williams: Yeah. And operationally, I understand that the ambulance has been hard to fulfill Yes. To operate, yeah. Yes. Financially. Um, am am I, is there something, is there some, like we don't, we're not having any more revenue from the ambulance department, so losing the ambulance, is this a net positive financially for the city or is it more about operational efficiencies?

▶ 18:21 Speaker 1: At the moment, it's a net positive for the city. We were, we were losing money because we were having to pay so much overtime to staff it.

▶ 18:28 Speaker 1: Of course. That's why, um, you know, it should, it should always be, I believe it was set up to maybe some years, make some money, some years make not money, but say it was roughly about a million dollars worth it's budgeted for. If it made a hundred thousand, that would be great. Yeah. If it costs 900,000 and we didn't, when we made 900,000, it cost us a hundred thousand to operate it for that year. However, the overtime costs have just been skyrocketing

▶ 18:57 Speaker 1: to fulfill these, um, to fill all these spots that,

▶ 18:59 Ryan Williams: Are there any new hires captured in the 2026 budget line or is this all existing staff? It's

▶ 19:04 Speaker 1: All existing staff. Okay.

▶ 19:06 Ryan Williams: Okay. I have, I have, um, you know, with with, um, with candor I have, I have a hard time understanding this sort of consistent increase alongside the discussion that I've heard about. Um, you know, how eliminating the overtime burden is going to help us be more financially stable. 'cause it looks to me like it's actually increasing our costs as we go from 2025 to 2026. Right. So the 2025 original budget's like 4.9 and the 2026 original budget is 5.7. So that's where my mind is, you know, I'm looking at it like we've done the work and I understand the, the story, but at the end of the day, there's an additional $700,000 in salary costs that are in the fire department in 2026 that were not there in 2025. And of course, it's in the backdrop of the school budget and everything else that we've been talking about, and people fighting over $150,000. So that's, you know, I'm looking for some like, help feeling good about, um, about that, about the increase.

▶ 20:13 Speaker 3: I don't know how to have made you feel better about it.

▶ 20:16 Speaker 1: However, the fire department has been, I believe,

▶ 20:18 Speaker 3: under budgeted for, for a long, long, long time.

▶ 20:23 Speaker 1: Mm-hmm. I believe we are finally now getting to a healthy footing.

▶ 20:28 Speaker 3: Mm-hmm. Um, with this FY 26 budget.

▶ 20:31 Speaker 1: Um, not foreseeing, I mean, not seeing anything unpredictable. We should be in very good shape. We've been struggling for many years now to hire folks

▶ 20:44 Speaker 3: and probably at least back to 18, we've been struggling

▶ 20:46 Speaker 1: and struggling trying to do it, trying to recruit people. We believe now, now that we're gonna get our staffing, our budget budget items, people can feel they're being, um, budget staffed. There's no risk of losing in the firefighter's mind since we don't have the ambulance.

▶ 21:07 Speaker 3: We are roughly now down one firefighter on the fire ground.

▶ 21:09 Speaker 1: So to, you know,

▶ 21:12 Speaker 3: because we don't have the ambulance, we we're be responding.

▶ 21:17 Speaker 1: Um, so in essence,

▶ 21:21 Speaker 3: we have a compromise at, uh, a net one on the fire side, I believe, which we wouldn't have.

▶ 21:28 Speaker 1: Typically the ladder would be

▶ 21:29 Speaker 3: staffed with only three people.

▶ 21:32 Speaker 1: Now it's gonna be four. So we have a third person when

▶ 21:34 Speaker 3: everybody's there, the fourth person, and now we can function like a full ladder company that can now operate a ventilation.

▶ 21:43 Speaker 1: When two people go inside search and rescue, two people go on the roof to help ventilate. Um, otherwise with three, it's very difficult. Understood.

▶ 21:52 Speaker 6: Yep. Understood. Okay. I appreciate that. Thank you. Mm-hmm.

▶ 21:58 Speaker 2: What's that? Councilor Williams? I am. Thank you. Thank you. Uh, counsel. Vandiver. Vanderberg.

▶ 22:02 Kimberly Vandiver: Uh, thank you. Um, I appreciate, uh, through the chair. I appreciate, uh, the line of questioning. Uh, that was one area that I was also interested in that, um, that Councilor Williams I think has covered pretty well. Um, my other questions, um, I, I know you cut, uh, a line item about mutual aid. Um, I assume that's the planning for SP spending, but, but any mutual aid agreements between cities are still

▶ 22:33 Speaker 3: In place? They still Yes, they're still in place? Yes. Okay.

▶ 22:34 Speaker 1: Um, that, that was a line item I believe that was always put there because if say there was a big fire and we had mutual aid companies,

▶ 22:46 Speaker 1: and typically the chief would go out and get like water replenishment supplies, food for the, for the personnel there. And so he had that item in his budget

▶ 22:57 Speaker 3: to use at the discretionary funds for that type of incident.

▶ 23:00 Speaker 1: But typically, um, things have changed over the years. Um, Armstrong Ambulance has a vehicle that they can bring that can bring, you know, cold drinks and stuff like that for us. So it's not something we really use anymore.

▶ 23:17 Speaker 3: Um, so that's why that one's out. We, we historically haven't used spend there. Um,

▶ 23:22 Kimberly Vandiver: Great. And, um, I, I also noticed you, you said over 4,000, um, calls last year. Yes. Um, which surprised me, that's about 10 a day, right on average. Mm-hmm. Um, could you, um, break down for us, what are kind of the top three? Is it mostly, you know, medical? What, what do you, what types of things are happening 4,000 times? It's,

▶ 23:46 Speaker 1: It's mostly medical aids. We do a lot of medical aids. Um, just as a matter of fact, just about 30 minutes before this, um, we had a medical aide at the Elmhurst Nursing Home. Then they had another one over on, I forget what street it is, but then the vote graduation is going on, and there was a call for medical aid there. Um, so we had three going on at once. Um, and then the first one cleared up, they were able to go to that one at the high school field, and then a fourth call came in right

▶ 24:19 Speaker 3: after that up at Stillman Road for an alarm.

▶ 24:23 Speaker 1: Um, so that's basically a lot of things that we do. We go to medical aid, we do a lot of lift assist. We go to folks homes. Um, fortunately they're able to still live in their house and, but they fall, they just can't get themselves back up. They call for assistance, make sure they're not hurt, make sure they're okay. We help them up if they're okay.

▶ 24:46 Speaker 3: We, um, we say, you know, call us next time, can you help?

▶ 24:48 Speaker 1: And then if not, we call an ambulance

▶ 24:50 Speaker 3: to take them to the hospital.

▶ 24:53 Speaker 1: Um, then other calls or alarms, whether they're household or commercial alarms, we respond to those. Unfortunately, most of 'em are false, um, or they're unintentionally triggered. Um, we really haven't had many fires. We had one on Upham Street, maybe a little over a month ago,

▶ 25:14 Speaker 3: just happened pass by, saw that one, um, started,

▶ 25:16 Speaker 1: got the mulch on fire on the front lawn, which got up in the porch. Luckily it was in the middle of the afternoon. Someone saw it and able

▶ 25:25 Speaker 3: to take forth too much damage, got to the house.

▶ 25:27 Speaker 1: Um, the same thing happened with the dump, I think, on Sixth Street. So it was remodel of the home fire started on the dumpster that's right next to the house passer by saw and called it.

▶ 25:37 Speaker 1: And we put that out for damage, the house. And fortunately, those for those folks were away.

▶ 25:41 Speaker 3: So luckily somebody went by and saw it.

▶ 25:44 Speaker 1: So we've been extremely lucky in that respect to catch these things.

▶ 25:49 Speaker 3: And they're incipient stages before they get too far away.

▶ 25:52 Speaker 1: Great. Um, and that's basically, other than then there's a lot of, um, we call 'em service calls. We have water problems, strange odors and things like that.

▶ 26:00 Kimberly Vandiver: Okay. And, um, hearing that and that, you know, a lot of those calls are not, you know, don't necessarily need the ladder truck for some of those types of things. Since we won't have the ambulance service, are we going to be sending out big trucks more often now because that's the vehicles that you have available to that type of call? Or is there any other type of truck or vehicle you could send to those types of,

▶ 26:25 Speaker 1: So how, how we operate is for a medical, our medical aids, let's say we send the nearest fire department truck, whether it's engine two, engine three of the ladder and the ambulance, which was our rescue, which now is action ambulance. So we'll continue to operate in that. Okay. That respect, like the medical aid spoke about over at Fred Greenfield Engine two promptly went over there from right down the street, waited for Armstrong Ambulance

▶ 26:52 Speaker 3: to tend to the, the person. Um, and that went for all of those medical aids that we went to.

▶ 26:58 Speaker 1: Uh, that's just where we operate. Gives us a fail safe. Something happens with the ambulance, gets it to an accident, mechanical problems. We've already, we've already probably made contact with that person. Um, so it's really just a backup. And then also, like I said, we do about 10 calls a day. Most of 'em are medical aids. We two people carrying 10 people out a day, that's pretty rough going. So the crews are also there to assist bringing gear in, help them package a person. Um, if they're waiting for them to arrive, they can get a medical history, start taking vital signs. We carry, um, a ED automatic defibrillator and the Lucas device to help do compressions.

▶ 27:42 Speaker 3: They can start CPR right away.

▶ 27:46 Kimberly Vandiver: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, that, that, that makes sense. And, um, yeah, I'm glad that you're getting to people as soon as possible. I, I wonder if, and I know we're getting out of the city ambulance business, but it, it sounds like it, some point down the road, it might make sense to have more additional small vehicles to like quickly get places as well.

▶ 28:03 Speaker 1: The, the, the trouble with that is, um, um,

▶ 28:08 Speaker 1: is if you take the smaller vehicle, let's say for instance we had like a pickup truck and we stand, instead stand the ladder, we're gonna take the pickup truck to the medical aid. So if they're on the medical aid and then a call comes for a fire, now they have to back to the station and get the ladder truck. Mm-hmm. So it's just a matter of, you know, getting them out. I know it's wear and tear on the trucks, but it is good to get them out running their,

▶ 28:32 Speaker 3: their, you know, they're trucks. See, um, um,

▶ 28:37 Speaker 1: but unfortunately the life of a firetruck is not easy.

▶ 28:39 Speaker 3: Um, stopping and starting with not long runs, which trucks are made to do.

▶ 28:46 Speaker 1: Um, however, it just doesn't be how of us to have another set of vehicles to take to medical aids

▶ 28:52 Speaker 3: or smaller, small things.

▶ 28:55 Speaker 1: Lots of times, sometimes you can't get into the house. They call for the medical aid, you have to like try to get into a window or something like, so it's good

▶ 29:01 Speaker 3: to have a ladder or stuff like that.

▶ 29:04 Kimberly Vandiver: Mm-hmm. Okay. That makes sense. Especially that you wanted to keep the firefighters with the firefighting truck in case they need to go from there to some to

▶ 29:13 Speaker 1: Someplace else. Sure. And their

▶ 29:14 Speaker 3: equipment is with them, you know, um, also,

▶ 29:16 Speaker 1: and just as another back fail safe, even though the ambulance has the same or more equipment, they'll have a defibrillator and the, um, Lucas device, but they're all mechanical devices and subject to failure, they run on batteries. Batteries always run low. So we always have another set of gear there also.

▶ 29:34 Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.

▶ 29:37 Kimberly Vandiver: Great. That, that's all the questions that I had. Thank you very much. Oh, Thank you. Thank

▶ 29:41 Mark Garipay: You Council. Common shady.

▶ 29:44 Manjula Karamcheti: Thank you Chair. Uh, thank you so much for being here, chief. I feel like some of my questions have been asked already. And so I just wanna say back to you what I think I'm understanding kind of as my question related to over time and staffing. So I think what I'm hearing you say is that this coming year, we are going to be towards that number of 50 that you feel like is really needed, um, to have like a full team. Yes. And so with that full team, it is very possible that we won't go over on overtime because we'll actually have the capacity to serve the community and not ask our firefighters to work double shifts, triple shifts, um, because we have coverage.

▶ 30:35 Speaker 1: Exactly. That's okay. Like I say, we have,

▶ 30:37 Speaker 3: we now have like one man on the bench on each group so

▶ 30:41 Speaker 1: that now instead before like this past year, the past few years, if one person was on called out sick,

▶ 30:50 Speaker 3: that was automatic over time

▶ 30:51 Speaker 1: on vacation, you tried to fill it. If you couldn't fill it, um, it's overtime, you know. Um, and then if no one takes it, then

▶ 31:00 Speaker 3: that per person gets held.

▶ 31:01 Speaker 1: So now that we have one man on the bench, if say one person calls out that man that the fourth guy on the ladder truck can now take

▶ 31:09 Speaker 3: that person's place wherever they're supposed to be. Okay. At least we at least have one.

▶ 31:14 Speaker 1: So it should, you know mm-hmm.

▶ 31:16 Speaker 3: Theoretically reduce this over

▶ 31:18 Manjula Karamcheti: Time. Yeah. Okay. And that totally, that's great to hear. And because I, I see sort of where the, the budget sort of gets us is in that overtime and you know, I'm seeing in 2025, it's almost 1000000.5, but if we are able to have a full staff and do what you're describing, then that 489,000 will just be what we need. And so while we see an increase in your budget overall, we'll actually potentially still be less than what we generally end up being at the end of the year because of that, those extreme overtime costs. Exactly. It's kind of how I'm processing it.

▶ 32:02 Speaker 1: We believe that these numbers and the mayor's proposal for 26

▶ 32:07 Speaker 3: should be very solid numbers. That's, that's what we believe at this point.

▶ 32:14 Speaker 1: Um, so I'm hoping I don't have to come back at all. Um,

▶ 32:18 Manjula Karamcheti: No, this makes good sense to me. I really appreciate it. It's it, thank you for letting me kind of ask the questions over again and, um, it seems like the right way to go to be at full capacity and make sure that our firefighters get the rest that they need and that others are able to respond.

▶ 32:35 Speaker 1: Exactly. Injuries are so costly. Yeah.

▶ 32:38 Speaker 5: Thank You so much. I'm all set Chair. Thank you.

▶ 32:40 Mark Garipay: Council Stewart. Thank

▶ 32:42 Robb Stewart: You Mr. Chair. Thank you, chief White. Um, and, uh, you partially answered the questions through some of this discussion, um, because, um, I was wondering a lot about the budgetary aspect as well, but the way I see it right now is plus 700, minus 500 on the, the overtime. And you have, um, the new negotiated, uh, rate based on the, uh, uh, collective bargaining, um, which could contribute partially to that extra $200,000. So it feels like you're actually pretty close to what you were last year. Um, uh, net. Net. And I have written it down that you're not coming back. You said it right here in the chamber itself. I'm

▶ 33:24 Speaker 1: Hoping I wrote it down. My fingers crossed Chief

▶ 33:26 Robb Stewart: White will not come back. Let's give you 20 seconds. No. Um, but I do appreciate, the other thing I just want to comment on is I wanna congratulate you on hiring in the market for getting six additional resources. Um, we hear it both on your side as well as on the, on the police side. Uh, the challenges, uh, because of the, um, the lack of, uh, qualified talent that's available in the market. So very well done. And it, it, it secures I think, us for, uh, a good position going forward. So thank

▶ 33:56 Speaker 1: You. Yeah, I think we're a good spot. And the foreseeable future in that respect is, is still looking dim. Um, yeah, you know, for the, the paramedic, um, market is

▶ 34:07 Speaker 3: so down.

▶ 34:11 Speaker 1: Um, I heard one, one thing I believe during the pandemic, it might have been 21 or 22, the national ERMT registrated, typically they, they give 15,000 new paramedic license per year nationwide. And that one year it was like 500.

▶ 34:29 Speaker 1: So that's, that's the decrease in the,

▶ 34:32 Speaker 3: in the people coming into the field is almost nil.

▶ 34:35 Speaker 1: So that, and that's what nationwide where everybody is struggling.

▶ 34:39 Robb Stewart: Alright. Temper state. Thank you, chief. Thank, thank you Mr. Chair.

▶ 34:43 Mark Garipay: Thank you. Councilor Stewart, counselor, uh, remodel.

▶ 34:47 Devin Romanul: Thank you mu uh, so much. Chief Boyd. Um, did you say that number was 300 just now or 500? Um, can't believe I misheard. Oh, 500. Yes. 500. Okay. So we're a third of nationally. Uh, the applicants are, well,

▶ 34:58 Speaker 1: That's it, it drops absolutely significantly. You know, that's remarkable. And, um, and then, and it's reflected now and, and all the departments are running, ambulances are struggling to maintain their staffing levels. Yeah.

▶ 35:12 Devin Romanul: Um, I had a couple of colleagues answer some of my questions, but I I wanted to ask, you know, similar to how we have made, um, equipment and, you know, Chromebook purchases for the schools in order to protect in, uh, FY 25 free cash to protect teacher salaries and ffy 26, you mentioned the turnout gear, I think was 75,000, um, to MA that we made for, uh, free cash and FY 25 to protect salaries and FY 26. I'm, I'm wondering, is that a, just for the public's, um, knowledge of how we think about budgeting every year, is that a line item that you think you'll need in FY 27? As we think about making those free cash allocations, those theoretical one-time expenses are being made for categories now that will need every single year. Um, just as a sign of, of tightening times. I'm just curious if that's the kind of thing or other equipment purchases that you would normally work into your budget that were now funding via free cash?

▶ 36:04 Speaker 1: That's a very good question. We, the, um, turnout gear is not a one time thing. They have a lifespan of about 10 years, and each firefighter has two sets. And so Captain Noble, who's in charge of the turnout gear, has a list.

▶ 36:21 Speaker 3: So we, we are anticipating a large cost in FY 26, uh,

▶ 36:25 Speaker 1: to expenditure because say this year I hired six guys, so let's say theoretically I buy,

▶ 36:29 Speaker 3: gonna need 12 sets of turnout gear.

▶ 36:32 Speaker 1: So in 10 years, just for those six, I'll need 12

▶ 36:36 Speaker 1: and, you know, 10 years from now. And so unfortunately, as we would love to have it very evenly spaced out every year, it does not work out that well. Mm. So this year wasn't a lot purchase, but we're anticipating, I believe I, it's like eight 16

▶ 36:51 Speaker 3: to 18 sets, something like that have to purchase.

▶ 36:57 Speaker 1: Um, I believe that comes very close to that

▶ 37:00 Speaker 3: $90,000, $8,000. Yeah.

▶ 37:03 Devin Romanul: You said it's, how, how much is each set of turnout gear?

▶ 37:07 Speaker 1: I believe it's around 3,800. That's

▶ 37:11 Devin Romanul: Helpful. Thank you. Um, and my other question was, you know, certainly don't want you to have to walk through the status update of, uh, where we are in every single truck in the fleet. But as we think about longitudinal budgeting, um, anticipated capital costs such as needing a new truck, it's, you know, an x number of years. Are there those sort of big, um, step functions in terms of expenses that the administration or the council should start to think about? You know, as we are having budgetary conversations with the community,

▶ 37:40 Speaker 1: That, that's another very good question. Um, at the moment, we, we do have that a frontline truck should be on the, um, on the front line for about 10 to 12 years. So our old, our engine four, which is a spear, is a 2007.

▶ 37:56 Speaker 3: So that's gone past way past that.

▶ 38:00 Speaker 1: And our next door engine three is a 2010.

▶ 38:02 Speaker 3: So that's already coming past that.

▶ 38:05 Speaker 1: So we should be, we should have ordered, um, we should have ordered one to replace our spare, to put our engine three to make that the spare. We should have ordered that already, but this year there was no, um, capital expenditure.

▶ 38:21 Speaker 1: Um, so I gotta wait another year. Unfortunately, the manufacturers are so backed up. The last time I spoke with our rep, it was a 40 month wait

▶ 38:31 Speaker 3: once you sign a contract.

▶ 38:33 Speaker 1: So in essence, I'll be looking at buying two pumps, you know, when we come around to that capital gains. And also, fire department maintains a city municipal fire alarm system that, um, superintendent Walsh uses uses bucket truck to take care of the wires. And that truck is in 1997, that is severe body rot, and that's looking to replace the cost of about 150,000 or fire trucks. Pumps are now getting close to a million a piece with ladder about a million and a half. So there are some significant capital expenditures

▶ 39:11 Speaker 3: that we're gonna be coming across very soon.

▶ 39:13 Speaker 7: Um, that's remarkable.

▶ 39:15 Devin Romanul: And I'm, I really appreciate you saying this to us and to the community so they understand that these are things that, you know, there, there is a cost to not investing in our infrastructure, uh, on a timely basis. Just

▶ 39:26 Speaker 1: Another point of having a spare. We have, we now have a spare ladder and a spare engine, and we also work part of our mutual aid agreements. Right now, our spare engine four is in Malden. Their engine one is out of service. So we let them borrow it. You know, if someone needs a ladder truck, we let them borrow a ladder truck, FedEx point out we are down and we need a spare truck. We can, you know, work amongst all the people in our mutual aid agreement

▶ 39:50 Speaker 3: who has a spare one too.

▶ 39:53 Speaker 1: So we do have them and they do get used. We lend them out a lot, um,

▶ 39:57 Speaker 3: to help the other departments when they're in trouble,

▶ 40:00 Speaker 1: you know, so sort of a, you know, a good neighbor benefit

▶ 40:03 Speaker 3: to having those spares around. Yeah.

▶ 40:05 Devin Romanul: That's great. Alright. Thank you very much. I appreciate it. You're welcome.

▶ 40:08 Mark Garipay: Thank you. Um, anyone else? For the first time? For the second time, I got Councilor ro, then Councilor Williams. Councilor Ro,

▶ 40:18 Cal Finocchiaro: Thank you again for all this explanation. Um, I'll try not to long with this, but I just wanted to talk a little bit about just to, so the general public can understand the reason why we don't have our ambulance is specifically because we cannot actually, we, we can't find a available trained paramedics to be to staff it.

▶ 40:39 Speaker 1: Correct? Correct. Okay. We, We, that's been very difficult. I think when we started our ambulance in 2012, we've lost 15 paramedics not due to retirement. Mm-hmm. They've gone off to other jobs. And so we've all, we've been struggling

▶ 40:56 Speaker 3: to backfill those guys this whole time.

▶ 40:58 Speaker 1: Um, and because COVID lack of interest in being in that, uh, field, it's been very difficult to replace those folks. The folks you hire typically are very new and the fire department has not set up an infrastructure in EMS to really train people. Mm-hmm. You know, we were very fortunate to get trained people when we hire them. That's not the case anymore. They're coming in very green and they need a lot of training and we just don't have the means to do it. Mm-hmm. So we have those, these a double, not a double-edged swords, like two swords. We just have can't do it.

▶ 41:38 Speaker 3: And it's been, as you can see in our budget crushing.

▶ 41:41 Cal Finocchiaro: Yeah. Um, just because of feedback from the community. It's a lot of disappointment that, you know, it's nice when you have familiar faces coming to your house. I mean, I've experienced that myself over the years living here. You have the same, you know, face is coming to your house to help you with a medical issue. Um, but, you know, people need to understand that this is what, this is what happens when you just cannot and we can't just keep on paying overtime. And, you know, it's a lot of work for the firefighters to cover those shifts too, so. Right.

▶ 42:08 Speaker 1: One of the, one of the benefits of not having to hire paramedics anymore, paramedics were hired off the state

▶ 42:14 Speaker 3: firefighter civil service list.

▶ 42:16 Speaker 1: And so lots of them don't come from Melrose. We prior, when we just hire firefighters, they would have residency preference. Mm-hmm. So now we hiring firefighter EMTs and we'll hire them off the residence list. So hopefully we'll be getting back to seeing more familiar faces of your neighbors. Um, which is something that I've taken a lot of pleasure in my years of service, being able to go to folks' homes that I know mm-hmm. To see that look of, they know they know me or they know one of people that I'm with get that sense of relief. You know, that help is there.

▶ 42:51 Speaker 5: Great. Thank you. Mm-hmm.

▶ 42:54 Speaker 2: Council Williams. Thank you.

▶ 42:55 Ryan Williams: So I did a little quick math while we were sitting here and I wanted to test my assumptions 'cause I think I came up with a really good, uh, really good set of figures. So the budget that we're provided by the city is dated May 1st, 2025. Right. The fiscal year end six 30, which means that we're missing about 20% of potential expenses from these documents when we look at the 20, 25 year to date spend. Right. Your overtime is probably not really consistent. Would you say that's correct? That you're overtime this big chunk of overtime? Like are you, are you continuously accruing more overtime in May and June of this year?

▶ 43:37 Speaker 3: That's a tough question answer. Sure, sure. Okay.

▶ 43:38 Speaker 1: Um, however, as we approach the summer months vacation period picks up. Yeah. Okay. So we, we do expect a a, a uptick Okay. In, um,

▶ 43:51 Speaker 3: Overtime and you have Vacation anyways, you

▶ 43:52 Ryan Williams: Know. Yeah. And your salaries are consistent, right?

▶ 43:55 Speaker 3: Yes. Salaries are

▶ 43:56 Ryan Williams: Consistent. So if you look at the 2025 number of $4.1 million for salaries, and you assume that that number is spread evenly over 10 months, the last two months of the year should cost us about $800,000. And if we have some overtime in there that could cost us, you know, eight 50, $900,000. My assumption is that the actual 2025 year end spending for the Melrose Fire Department will be over $6 million and it will be closer to $6.4 million when all is said and done at the end of the year. Which means that a budget request of $5.7 million for the full year is actually a 10% reduction in the amount of money that we're gonna spend on the department this year. I believe you're correct. I mean, I think it helps, you know, 'cause the, the doc the documents are, are very challenging to read sometimes.

▶ 44:50 Speaker 1: Yeah. So as I look at my budget so far, year to date, um,

▶ 44:56 Speaker 3: I believe, when was this As of six four?

▶ 44:58 Speaker 1: Yeah. Um, under s salary and wages I've spent almost 4.6. Yep.

▶ 45:04 Ryan Williams: That would be an extra $400,000 for that month.

▶ 45:06 Speaker 1: And so I have left from, to get through this month, $331,000. Right. Um, however my overtime I've gone Oh, I mean, minus $194,000.

▶ 45:19 Speaker 3: Right, right, right. Okay. At this point in time.

▶ 45:21 Ryan Williams: Okay. This makes a lot more sense to me in the context of, of the year to date figure in the budgets we have in the record being two months shy of a full year and actually shows a pretty big decrease in the amount of spending that we're planning for this year because of the tighter controls on salaries and hopefully less overtime. Exactly.

▶ 45:43 Speaker 1: I I think now we're gonna have much, much more predictable scheduling, um,

▶ 45:50 Speaker 3: and less overtime.

▶ 45:53 Speaker 1: Um, again, stress enough having a bench, you know, to at least not have the first person who's on vacation or out sick causing overtime, man for man overtime is grueling. And all these numbers reflect that. Mm-hmm. But we're saying, um, believe this s**t, but we are gonna have one guy on each group's bench

▶ 46:15 Speaker 3: to at least catch that first one.

▶ 46:16 Ryan Williams: Yeah. And that's all, and that's all good. I think that's all really important. I think for me the most important pieces, understanding that the numbers that we're seeing don't reflect the last two months of the year. So when it says there's a, you know, when it, when it talks about some of the increases, we're really not capturing the truth of the 2025 budget in this document, which is, is what it is. Um, but certainly, you know, a a a great thing to save 10% off the budget for next year. Um, the second thing I want to do is just piggybacking on Councillor Vandiver, if you're not having the ambulance service in Melrose, do you have an open bay in the, in the plan for the fire stations?

▶ 46:55 Speaker 1: Um, we don't. We Okay. I'm the ambulance, you know, occupies the rescue bay now. Okay. Um, and this is something we did previously in the

▶ 47:06 Speaker 3: early two thousands I believe we had. Okay. Private ambulance service back then before we started our ambulance service back up.

▶ 47:11 Speaker 1: Okay. And that's where they ran out of headquarters, third Bay. Um, and there's a couple of rooms where they,

▶ 47:16 Speaker 3: they they stay.

▶ 47:17 Speaker 1: Um, and, um, we'll continue like that. We'll need to have an ambulance in the city. And personally I just feel when it's, and under my control under, in my, one of my facilities, I can really have a good eye grasp on

▶ 47:36 Speaker 3: where it is at all times.

▶ 47:39 Speaker 1: And, um, just like it's one of my own trucks. Yeah.

▶ 47:42 Speaker 6: Okay. Thank you. Counsel Stewart,

▶ 47:46 Speaker 7: Mr. Chair, I make a motion to recommend this to full counsel. Second,

▶ 47:50 Mark Garipay: We have a motion to recommend department 2 21, uh, the bar move, move the bottom line of, uh, department 2 21. Fire by Councilor Stewart, seconded by Councilor Chetty on discussion. Discussion. Council ver

▶ 48:05 Kimberly Vandiver: Thank you. Uh, two follow up questions. One is, um, when we, given, um, that we have Arm Armstrong Ambulance now, um, next year at the same time at the year when we get the update, will it, will the Melrose Fire Department have done 4,000 calls again? Or would that be decreased because there would be some that are fully handed over to Armstrong?

▶ 48:30 Speaker 1: It should be the same. It should be the same. We, we always say, we always send the nearest truck

▶ 48:35 Speaker 3: to all medical aides.

▶ 48:36 Speaker 1: We don't send the ambulance alone. Mm-hmm.

▶ 48:38 Speaker 8: Mm-hmm. I just, at some point, if the budget

▶ 48:42 Kimberly Vandiver: becomes constrained, it seems like we may at some point want to consider that because I, I think in my private life, if I, you know, were to call for an ambulance, I wouldn't necessarily expect the backup even though it would be good and helpful. You know what I mean? Like, I think there could be a scenario where an ambulance would be enough, um, that we might wanna consider at some point.

▶ 49:05 Speaker 1: One of the things that folks have to remember is the, the call we get for the problem is most of the time isn't exactly what's going on. So we always have to, you know, hope for the best and plan for the worst. So that's why we like to have the firetruck with the ambulance in case they run into you or someone just happens to be really going down, um, to quickly get them outta their house, which is not an easy thing to do, um, in most cases. And get them to the hospital as quick as possible. I mean, time is of the essence.

▶ 49:40 Kimberly Vandiver: Um, would there be, just in terms of like routing the calls, so if a resident of Melrose or someone visiting Melrose for, for whatever reason, calls 9 1 1, so that would route and it would send both? Or is there, is there any way, does it always send both or depending on how they call,

▶ 49:57 Speaker 1: Who they call? Yeah. 9 1 1 calls go to the police station. That's what they call the psap. Okay. That, so they get all the nine one calls and, excuse me, nothing has really changed from near end. When they get the call and they get, it's a medical aid, they call the fire department and say we have a medical aid at 1 2 3 Main Street, and then we dispatch the nearest engine company or truck company and the ambulance.

▶ 50:22 Kimberly Vandiver: Okay. Okay. Understood. And, um, second follow up, um, would be given that, you know, this sub-functions are moving to Armstrong, um, how much visibility will we have into if average response time changes or cost to residents changes? Um, just like visibility into how they're running their business compared to how we ran the ambulance.

▶ 50:46 Speaker 1: We are planning, um, part of this agreement, I've spoken with the mayor, um, about putting in an ambulance oversight committee. It's, it's, I believe it's in the charter already, the last time we had a private ambulance, two, to watch these things. Um, their costs, uh, you know, depend upon Medicaid, how much they get back and everything. So they're fairly regulated on that end. Um, and to the cost of the residents, I can't imagine would be any more because I know that our billing was pretty close to the top

▶ 51:22 Speaker 3: of that as far as we could get with the Melrose fire.

▶ 51:25 Speaker 1: That's what our billing was. So we know we're at the top of line. We couldn't, if we didn't have, we continued on with the Melrose Fire Rescue when the mayor asked can we increase revenue? We couldn't increase our fees on that any further.

▶ 51:35 Speaker 3: We were at the top of that line.

▶ 51:37 Speaker 1: So I can't imagine the cost from Armstrong being significantly more than we were charging already.

▶ 51:45 Speaker 8: Okay. Thank you very much. Mm-hmm. Thank

▶ 51:47 Mark Garipay: You. Um, just a quick note to the committee. We have, we're gonna have to gavel out in a few minutes to go to finance and then gavel back in. So is there anyone else? Council

▶ 51:57 Cal Finocchiaro: Just wanna make one comment through the chair. Um, to consulate van's point, I was told many years ago, if you have a real emergency, pull the fire alarm because the firefighters are always, and any emergency I've ever had, whether it was a, a kid with croup or somebody with a real, like terrible emergency, the firefighters are always there first. So I'm just saying like, I know we're questioning like whether we should send them out or not. I just find that if you ever look on an emergency on the highway or something, the firefighters are always first to get there. And actually a firefighter told me once, you know, always pull the fire alarm because they're first to respond. So, which

▶ 52:35 Speaker 1: The, the, the fire alarm system, you see, you see the boxes on the poles and on the building that actually, um, rings right in dispatch.

▶ 52:43 Speaker 3: Mm-hmm. The second you pull it, it's

▶ 52:45 Speaker 1: that there's a number on each box and that number is associated with the address

▶ 52:50 Speaker 3: where it is the location of it.

▶ 52:51 Speaker 1: And so when the number comes in for that box, we just look it up, we find out where it is, and then we respond.

▶ 52:59 Speaker 3: So it's the fastest mm-hmm.

▶ 53:00 Speaker 1: Way to get a response would be by pulling it. But cell phones and everything, everybody's close to their phone. Most people don't really know

▶ 53:08 Speaker 3: where the nearest one is at all time.

▶ 53:09 Speaker 1: So that's taken over. But cell phones can be routed by law. They can only be routed three times

▶ 53:17 Speaker 3: and then they gotta finally get stopped and, um, answered.

▶ 53:21 Speaker 1: Um, so there could be, cell phones can have a round, round the way to get back to us. And in regards to, let's say this building has a fire alarm system that's attached to municipal system. So a fire alarm goes off here, it's instantly ringing next door at the fire station, whereas the other options have a centrally monitored with a fire alarm goes off, it goes back to a company that monitors the equipment,

▶ 53:44 Speaker 3: then they call the fire department. There's that little delay. That's the difference in those systems.

▶ 53:49 Speaker 5: Yeah, I'm just saying anytime I've had an emergency, the firefighters are there first. So yeah,

▶ 53:52 Speaker 1: That's, that's, you know, what we hang our hat on. Quick response.

▶ 53:58 Mark Garipay: Okay. We have a, uh, motion on the floor. We're on discussion. Anyone else? Okay. All in favor?

▶ 54:05 Speaker 9: Aye. Opposed? That bottom line will be

▶ 54:10 Mark Garipay: Moved. Next up. Uh, actually let's take a motion to recess