Appropriation from Free Cash (account 01-324001) in the amount of $170,000 to Capital Outlay (#931) to purchase a sidewalk plow.

Transcript (~18 min @ 11:10)

Speakers identified by voice; unnamed voices are numbered within this recording. Auto-caption text — verify against the video.

▶ 10:57 Devin Romanul: That will be brought before the next full council meeting with a recommendation for passage. Next up, ID number 2026-1147, appropriation from free cash in the amount of $170,000 to capital outlay to purchase a sidewalk plow. Joining us this evening, Mr. Jim Troupe, Elena Proes-Ellis. Thank you both so much for joining us.

▶ 11:20 Speaker 8: Thank you.

▶ 11:23 Speaker 9: So this item is in addition to our request for the vehicle replacement. This was actually, if you looked at our vehicle capital plan, it was originally a year two proposed purchase. And we just decided to, since the funding appeared to be available in free cash this year and since we had issues during this past winter with sidewalk plows going down, we thought we would try to advance this a year sooner. So that's the reason why this one is both separate, because it wasn't in our original year one plan, and also why it's proposed for this year. And we are only proposing one sidewalk plow.

▶ 12:03 Speaker 3: Councilor Williams.

▶ 12:04 Ryan Williams: Thanks. Can you restate for us, because we did discuss this prior, you had an idea for the utility of the sidewalk plow. It's not going to be sort of the same thing that we have now. It's going to be a little different

▶ 12:13 Speaker 9: Yes. So our operations manager, Matt, has spec'd out what he thinks is the ideal vehicle for us, and it also includes the ability to add a boom flail attachment that allows us to use it year-round. The idea would be that we could use it for brush cutting and other things along the roadsides. Right now, we rent equipment every year to do brush cutting. Washington Street is one place that pops into my mind where it's needed every year. The brush starts to grow out into the street, and especially for cyclists, it becomes a hazard. So the intent would be to have utility of this vehicle year-round.

▶ 12:54 Speaker 8: Excellent. Thank you.

▶ 12:55 Speaker 3: Councilor Jamaleddine.

▶ 12:57 Maya Jamaleddine: Thank you. Thank you for the information that you've attached and you sent to us. But, do we have the capacity for someone to run this vehicle?

▶ 13:10 Speaker 9: Yes. We have four people who are assigned to our sidewalk plow routes in the winter, and so any of them would be able to drive this vehicle.

▶ 13:17 Maya Jamaleddine: And, do we have designated areas to be used, or is it- Yes ... citywide?

▶ 13:25 Speaker 9: So we have the four sidewalk plow routes. If you go on the city's website and you look for sidewalk plow routes, you can find that we have a central route and then three... Well, we have the downtown route, and then we have ones that are called central, north, and south. We don't plan to make any major changes to our sidewalk plow routes. Mm-hmm. This equipment would just allow us to run all four routes at once. This winter, we had periods of time where we only had two pieces of equipment working, and we had four people who were assigned to driving the four routes, two of whom had no equipment to drive. So they had to wait till the other staff finished the other two routes. So we got really behind on some of our sidewalks this year, and we don't want that to happen.

▶ 14:08 Maya Jamaleddine: Okay. And just for the public, currently, how do we do it, since we don't have that truck?

▶ 14:16 Speaker 9: So in theory, we have four vehicles right now when they're all up and running. We have three Bombardier machines and then one little Ventrac machine.

▶ 14:27 Speaker 9: So normally, we would have all four machines running at the same time. This winter, we just had to stagger the operations with the equipment that we had running. There may have been one period of time when all four pieces of equipment were running, but for the majority of storms, we had either two or three of the pieces of equipment working.

▶ 14:50 Maya Jamaleddine: especially for free cash, which I totally understand how the process and the use of free cash, is this your top priority to use that amount of money, or do you have any other things laying that you think it would be more pressing to use it for that?

▶ 15:12 Speaker 9: So my top priority, especially of the items that we're talking about tonight for free cash, is the 880,000 for the other truck replacement. As I mentioned, this was originally designated as a year-two purchase. So I put those trucks as a much higher priority. But given the failures that we had this winter, this one does rise up to in the mix of our higher priorities.

▶ 15:36 Speaker 6: Okay. Thank you. You're welcome.

▶ 15:39 Devin Romanul: Next up, Vice Chair Vandiver.

▶ 15:40 Kimberly Vandiver: Thank you. I appreciate your comments about also utilizing the sidewalk plow for cutting brush on Washington Street. Just want to mention that's also a sight line issue if you're turning onto Lynn Fells from Washington. When that brush at that intersection gets grown up, it gets pretty bad. So that'll be a huge help if we also get that functionality. And, I'd like to make a motion to recommend. Second.

▶ 16:03 Devin Romanul: Motion to recommend made by Vice Chair Vandiver, seconded by Councilor Williams. On discussion, first up, I have Councilor Park.

▶ 16:10 Speaker 8: Thank you. Thank you for joining us, Elena. Mike, I have two questions. One is, and you may be discussing this later tonight, how do you come about with the estimated cost of the actual vehicle? What sort of process do you go in terms of budgeting or estimating the cost? And the second part of my question is, what would be the cost savings with this type of vehicle now that it's modular? You had mentioned there's going to be some summer operations that we could have, that would help with the brush cutting of Washington Street. How much does it typically cost to rent a machine to do this sort of service?

▶ 16:52 Speaker 9: So I'm going to look to Jim to see if he knows.

▶ 16:55 Speaker 7: Yeah, it's a great question, but it's a very complex answer. As it comes to budgeting and forecasting, how do we submit the price for these replacement vehicles? We're in constant contact with vendors who are on state contract, basically the police BAPER contract, so that it satisfies procurement. This is pricing that they will offer across the state. And then what we'll try to do is we will try to equip it with the proper things that would be applicable to the services that we're trying to deliver. So we're constantly trying to update that so that we can accurately request an appropriation so that we can get the equipment that we need. In terms of any types of cost savings, what we want to do is we want to actually do this stuff in-house. We don't want to contract this out. So the savings that we're going to realize actually turns into a contracted price versus our in-house price. Our in-house labor is much cheaper than if we put it out for public bid. If we use our own equipment, we're saving the equipment cost that a contractor would go out. An exact analysis, I got to tell you, I haven't done it. I don't think we've done it. But there is a significant cost to do this in-house versus to put it out for contract and have a contracted vendor come in and perform the services.

▶ 18:11 Speaker 9: And I will add to that, when we've rented the equipment and used our own labor, I think we wereIf I had to guess, I would say a few thousand dollars each time we've rented the equipment, because we rent it for a week or two. We don't just do this work in a day. So if I had to guess, I'd say a few thousand dollars, but again, I don't know the exact number either.

▶ 18:30 Speaker 8: Okay. And this is perpetually every year that we rent out the equipment. Okay. Thank you.

▶ 18:37 Speaker 3: Councillor Kamchetye.

▶ 18:38 Manjula Karamcheti: Thank you. Just real quick, because I want to make sure that I understand the full context. So we had four sidewalk plows. Three are still operational- Yes ... and one is not, or two are only operational? So we'll go from two to three, but still be short.

▶ 18:56 Speaker 9: Three are operational now.

▶ 18:57 Speaker 10: Three are operational.

▶ 18:57 Speaker 9: The fourth one is the oldest, and I was going to pull up the year. So the Bombardiers that we have, two of them are, I want to say 2016 and '17, and then the third one is a 2008 or something. It's a lot older. I can find that information if anyone wants it. But, that's the one we'd be replacing with the new one. So then we would have machines from 2016, '17, and '26, and then the smaller little track machine that we have would be the fourth one, which is fully operational and fairly new.

▶ 19:30 Manjula Karamcheti: Okay. And just more for curiosity, but also just in thinking about bigger picture of us having a long-term, having these available, do you anticipate the other

▶ 19:42 Speaker 10: three lasting?

▶ 19:44 Speaker 9: Our-

▶ 19:45 Manjula Karamcheti: Or have they already needed repairs, or where are we at with that?

▶ 19:49 Speaker 9: They have needed repairs, but our mechanic feels confident that he can continue to repair those.

▶ 19:53 Speaker 10: Okay. All right. Thank you so much. I appreciate it.

▶ 19:55 Devin Romanul: Up next, Councillor Shen.

▶ 19:57 Jason Chen: Yep. So the director and I have been having an email conversation this past week on some different options, and when I first saw the cost of 170,000, it just struck me as pretty high because, for these types of vehicles, you've got a skid steer, which is like a Bobcat or pretty industrial, that can be used all year round. You have a sidewalk plow, which is essentially a thinner skid steer. And then you've got a new generation of mini skid steers, which are actually quite cheap, 10 to $15,000, which I think that's what the Ventrac is. So I'm wondering, first, what are some different options you considered? And second, could we consider used vehicles? So- Because I did go shopping online for some vehicles, and there's a great skid steer for $65,000 with only 150 hours on it.

▶ 20:42 Speaker 9: 65,000? Yeah.

▶ 20:44 Speaker 5: Yeah, 65,000.

▶ 20:46 Speaker 9: So we did purchase a Bobcat for school sidewalk plowing, and it was about in that range, 65,000. We got a grant for it probably three years ago. So that is an option, but we have Bobcats, so our operations manager prefers this trackless machine that he says is the right equipment to put the boom flail on. I'm repeating a lot of things that have been said to me, so I can't say that this is my area of direct expertise, but he said that is the equipment to put this attachment on to be able to do the brush cutting that we currently contract out or rent the equipment for. So I don't know that that same equipment can go on a skid steer. Perhaps it can, and I will certainly pass along that question. With regard to purchasing used vehicles, so the big challenge that we have is, I know you had mentioned some vendors who work with municipalities who do everything through state auctions and whatnot. That is a possible avenue for used equipment. But in general, we're purchasing off of the state, the ComBuy state bid lists, with the state bid vendors. It's been our most straightforward and reliable way to procure vehicles because we can't make a $65,000 purchase without going out to bid. And part of the problem I see with... or buying through state vendors. Part of the problem I see with the used vehicles is I'm just not sure what the process would be. If we were to go out to bid, we would need to solicit competitive bids, and I'm just not sure that used vehicle vendors bid on city procurement. I just don't know if that's something that happens. Perhaps with these third-party folks, it's something we can look into, and we certainly will look into it. I don't want to sound dismissive of it. We will look into it, but I'm not sure that that's the avenue we'll end up taking if ComBuys ends up being the best way to go.

▶ 22:49 Speaker 7: Okay. Could I add something? We have done that. Hmm. We have looked at used vehicles. We have looked at things that are available in other communities. We have two pieces of equipment in our fleet right now that other communities had used, had no longer any use for, and then we were fortunately in the right spot at the right time with the right amount of money. So if those opportunities come up, I have to have the cash available to pull the trigger. Otherwise, those opportunities are first come, first served. But I love your idea, and it's one that we're always looking to see what do we have for discretionary funds available. Few and far between, but when those opportunities come up, if we're ready to pounce, we're trying to pounce. Like Alana said, though, if we're going to try to look for used vehicles in this process, it creates a little bit of a different challenge because we have an advantage that we know how those equipments have been used. Mm-hmm. So we might not want that eight-year-old piece of equipment that has those hours. We know the tax that the work has been done on it. But I love your idea, and it is something that we have pursued in the past and been successful doing.

▶ 23:54 Speaker 9: And I think with those, they have been under the procurement thresholds. Correct. Correct. So we were-

▶ 23:59 Speaker 5: Under 50,000. Yes.

▶ 24:00 Speaker 7: And it goes through a process, obviously, for transparency. When another community gets involved, it has to go through their disposal process as well as our acceptance process. So we have to follow that as well. For sure. Thank you.

▶ 24:12 Jason Chen: Yeah. I did speak to one of these auctions, the one that I met at the 351 conference, and they exist partly for being able just to distribute government surplus vehicles, but also to help with these private used sales. So I don't know the full mechanism of it, but it is exactly there to help us- Correct ... comply with 30B laws for purchases.

▶ 24:33 Speaker 7: Correct. I agree 100%. Time is of the essence with those purchases.

▶ 24:36 Jason Chen: Yes. And I have no issue appropriating the money. I like that we have the option, if we don't need a snow plower until next season, so we have some time- A little time ... to find a good deal, and they do come up. Yep. So.

▶ 24:51 Devin Romanul: Up next, Councilor Finocchiaro.

▶ 24:53 Cal Finocchiaro: Thank you. I didn't know I was up next. Thank you for being here. As I was sitting here, I was trying to rack my brain on the last time we appropriated money for a DPW over the last couple of years that I was doing this. And I feel like it was a really bad rusted pickup truck. Yes. And I personally feel like the DPW has so many jobs within the city. You take care of so many things, and this is exactly what free cash I feel like needs to be used on, and I really feel like I appreciate Councilor Chen review and research on used equipment if that works. At the same time, I feel like the newer stuff will last longer, potentially. I don't know, so maybe you won't be coming back for a while anyways. But, so I'm supportive of this and just want to make a motion to recommend.

▶ 25:53 Devin Romanul: We actually have a- Oh, second. We have a motion on the floor. You can vote yes. Go for it. It was a little while ago, but we do have a motion on the floor. I was trying to get through all the comments. I believe last on our- That was a big one ... lineup, in case anyone else has, Councilor Williams.

▶ 26:07 Ryan Williams: Me twice. Thank you. Okay. A couple of really quick things because I realize we have some new folks in the room. If you don't know it, the sidewalk plow route is on the website. The easiest way is honestly to just Google Melrose sidewalk plow route, and you'll see all the different PDFs. It's really fascinating. And even though I know you're not making any major changes, it's always the thing that people are like, "Hey, what about this? What about that?" So, if you hear a lot of concerns about the sidewalk plow route and the areas you see are missing, it's a great conversation to have with Public Works. The second piece I wanted to add is to check my understanding of the appropriations process with the people who receive and fund the money, spend the money. So the way this works is you guys go in, you look up what things might cost, and then you ask for the money to put in an account. Yes. Then you do the bid. Then you get the price. Sometimes it's more, sometimes it's less. If it's more, you come back, and you ask for more. If it's less, what happens then?

▶ 27:02 Speaker 9: So on something like this where we're specifying it's for snow equipment, I suppose if we were to be able to buy two pieces of equipment, if we're going for things that are more in the price range that Councilor Chen is talking about, I would figure that was within the same intent of this order. But where this is on its own, if we weren't to spend it on sidewalk plowing equipment, the remainder would go back into free cash. Yes. Thank you. So for instance, today we just closed out a project that we had requested free cash for last year. We had a $6,000 balance. We emailed Carrie and said, "Close that PO, liquidate it, put the money back." So- Yeah ... that's what we do.

▶ 27:48 Ryan Williams: Thank you. And I asked you that on purpose because I wanted to make a point to folks that the money that we send, we're kind of blind at this stage. We have a good idea of what something might cost, and we tend to overshoot a little bit, and then sometimes it does cost that much, and sometimes it doesn't. But the money usually either ends up back in free cash to be put to a good purpose, or it winds up getting more of what we intended, which is to fund snow and ice removal on sidewalks for the same price or better price. So that was all I wanted to throw out there- Mm-hmm ... with respect to everyone, and thank you for giving me a minute to do it.

▶ 28:23 Devin Romanul: Of course. Always. Of course. Madam Clerk, would you please call the roll?

▶ 28:27 Speaker 1: Vice Chair Vandiver? Yes. Councilor Chen? Yes. Councilor Finocchiaro? Yes. Councilor Jamaleddine? Yes. Councilor Karamcheti? Yes. Councilor Kowal? Yes. Councilor Obremski? Yes. Councilor Park?

▶ 28:39 Speaker 8: Yes.

▶ 28:40 Speaker 1: Councilor Williams? Yes. President Freeman? Yes. Chair Romanul? Yes.

▶ 28:45 Devin Romanul: Motion passes. All right. That motion passes and will be reported out in the next full council meeting. Up next, ID number 2026-1148, appropriation from free cash in the amount of $880,000 to capital outlay to purchase DPW vehicles.

▶ 29:00 Speaker 9: Thank you. So this is our year-one request of our three-year plan that we submitted. We submitted this both as part of the capital improvement plan process and also as an attachment for tonight's hearing.