ORDER-2017-12 : Petition to the Great and General Court to enact a Special Act to authorize the city of Melrose to amend the Melrose city charter to replace the term "Board of Aldermen" with "City Council" and replace the term "Alderman" with "Councilor"

Transcript (~56 min @ 37:44)

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▶ 37:35 Peter D. Mortimer: close public participation by alderman forbes duly seconded by alderman lemmerman all in favor please say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Public participation is hereby closed. The first

▶ 37:48 Peter D. Mortimer: order we have before us is Order 2017-12. It is a petition to the Great and General Court to enact a special act to authorize the City of Melrose to amend the Melrose City Charter to replace the term Board of Aldermen with City Council and replace the term Alderman with Councilor. This order was sponsored by Ward 2 Alderman Jennifer Lemmerman and is now here in the Appropriations Committee. Is there a motion please Alderman Lemmerman. Thank

▶ 38:21 Jennifer L. Lemmerman: you Mr. Chair and members of the committee thank you for your consideration of this order. I provided some additional information regarding my goals for introducing this order which was uploaded into IQM 2 but I'm also grateful for the opportunity to give a bit more context here tonight during our meeting. The benefit of a potential change like this first became clear to me when I ran for the seat in 2013. As I met with residents and introduced myself as a candidate for Ward 2 alderman, one of the most common questions I received in response wasn't about my goals for the position or about the residents concerns or priorities in the city, but one of the most common questions was what exactly does an alderman do? And I quickly found that the swiftest and clearest response to this question was it's essentially another name for city councilor uncommon follow-up question then was wouldn't that make you an older woman then or sometimes I would be asked if they're basically city councilors then why aren't they called city councilors and that's a question for which I still don't have a good response conversations like this have continued for me over the past three years and while it may serve as a bit of a light icebreaker for talking to constituents it always has seemed to me to be at best a distraction from conversation about issues in the city and at worst a real barrier to true public engagement in local government as one of just two communities left in Massachusetts whose municipal legislative body still called Board of Aldermen Melrose continues to identify its elected officials by a term that is increasingly not recognized in recent times our city is adapted to change and taking advantage of updates and technologies that make local government more accessible to the people that it serves so from our city email addresses to our schedules and our agendas and our minutes being placed online, to recent developments of being able to view the recordings of our meetings online, which was introduced by Alderman Wright and made possible by MMTV. And through all of this, the work of local government is increasingly more open and more available to the public. And a major goal of this order is to continue to move in that direction. There's so many traditions and characteristics that make Melrose a great place to live. and a draw to people to come to our city, and I really do not believe that this proposal, if approved, would change any of that. People are drawn to Melrose for our Victorian downtown that began in 1900, and our Melrose Symphony Orchestra that's about to enter its 100th season, as examples. But this history is not what defines Melrose. This history is what defines Melrose, not the old English terminology that we use to talk about our local government. And along with this history, Melrose prides itself on being forward-thinking and inclusive qualities that would be better reflected if we were to join our peer communities all across the state in adopting a term that is more modern and that better reflects the makeup of the body that it's describing. Another important tradition in Melrose is the participation of our engaged residents. We have community events, recreational programs, boards, commissions, and through all of those we see residents expressing their passions, lending their talents, and that kind of public participation can be incredibly important to the work that we do here at City Hall. So I don't believe that residents should be expected to learn an outdated term or overcome a barrier that time and modern language has created in order to be connected to their local elected leaders or to feel knowledgeable and included in the policy-making process. I think instead, I believe it's part of our role as elected leaders to adapt to the changing needs of our city and of our constituents and to remove barriers when we see them. This order is a fairly simple way for us to work toward that. So I hope that you'll agree and support this order. I want to also note that we have our city solicitor here and thank him very much for being here tonight to be able to answer any questions that we may have regarding the process and regarding this type of order. So, I would actually like to make a motion to suspend the rules so that he can join us at the table.

▶ 42:27 Speaker 2: Second.

▶ 42:28 Peter D. Mortimer: We have a motion by Alderman Lemmerman to suspend the rules so we may hear from the city solicitor. Said motion was duly seconded by Alderman Inferno. All in favor, please say aye. Aye. Any opposed, hearing none, we are under suspension of the rules. Mr. City Solicitor, would you like to make a statement or would you like to proceed directly to questions?

▶ 42:48 Speaker 1: Just to say, Mr. Chairman, that Madam Alderman Lemmerman approached my office in March of this year, and I've really been providing technical support. Other than that, I'm here to answer any questions members may have.

▶ 43:01 Peter D. Mortimer: Thank you, sir. Does anyone have any questions? Alderman Lemmerman, you still have the floor.

▶ 43:06 Jennifer L. Lemmerman: Please proceed. Thank you. Just a few questions. Thank you very much for being here, Mr. Van Kampen. Can you tell us, from your legal expertise and perspective in how you see this order, it proposes any change in the rules responsibilities or powers of this board

▶ 43:21 Speaker 1: no I view your order as merely a name change and I've conferred with Senate and House counsel as to the best format to present to the Statehouse so I believe an IQ m2 you have a red line version of the city charter attached to this order is that correct that's great so that is the the that is the attachment to the order that this committee and the full board will ultimately vote on when we transmit it to the State House we will provide the State House with a certified copy of the passage if it does occur of the order with an unedited but revised city charter as I understand that the legislature likes things in a certain format so we will provide that to them as well great thank you but there are no substantive changes in terms of the operations of the body the the committee structure the the rules etc etc that's

▶ 44:16 Jennifer L. Lemmerman: strictly within your purview locally great thank you very much and as you mentioned this went to House and Senate Council confirms that this was a proper way to make the substitution thank you very much thank you mr. chairman that's

▶ 44:29 Peter D. Mortimer: all I have for now Thank You alderman levelman next in queue we have alderman

▶ 44:36 Robert A. Boisselle: voice out please councilwoman used in other communities to identify

▶ 44:44 Speaker 1: individuals on the council my sense is and I'm not the expert I'm going to yield to Alderman Lemmerman on this with my sense is that the term counselor would be the sort of universally utilized gender-neutral term so there's There's no councilman and councilwoman.

▶ 45:01 Robert A. Boisselle: But the term is used in other communities though, from my understanding.

▶ 45:04 Speaker 1: I don't know.

▶ 45:07 Speaker 7: Do I redirect it to?

▶ 45:09 Peter D. Mortimer: To the chair, if it meets with your approval Alderman Lemmerman, since we are in committee. Through the chair, Alderman Boisselle is inquiring of you, if I understand the question correctly. Other communities, is there anywhere that they use the term councilman and councilwoman? council law the term of art is that question well phrased alderman boycelle that that's the question

▶ 45:35 Jennifer L. Lemmerman: before you all um i'm happy to to respond and just to say that you know i didn't tally the communities that did that so i don't have an accurate account for you this order would um propose counselor

▶ 45:49 Robert A. Boisselle: which is also used okay well just uh make it aware that councilman and councilwoman is used in many communities in massachusetts and there is actually a community in wilburn right up the road from us that has a city council but its members are called alderman at that point so i just wanted to clarify that that councilman and councilwoman is used in many communities to be part of the

▶ 46:22 Peter D. Mortimer: city council aspects of it thank you alderman boycelle is that all you have for now that's it

▶ 46:29 Scott M. Forbes: thank you very much sir alderman forbes yes thank you mr chairman and uh alderman Michael worker's absence like make a motion to have uh alderman's workers comments on order number two zero one seven dash one two read into the record thank you alderman forbes has made a motion

▶ 46:46 Peter D. Mortimer: to have alderman Zwirko comments alderman's worker was on vacation on the continent um and And he has some comments that he'd like to read into the record that he transmitted to Alderman Forbes. Is there a second on that motion? Second. Alderman Inferno has seconded Alderman Forbes motion to have Alderman's Worko's comments read into the record. All in favor, please say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Hearing none, I will now proceed to read Alderman's Worko's comments into the record.

▶ 47:16 Speaker 4: It's like we're in Congress here now. can promote it multiple levels i guess i've never heard anybody's comments heard into the record

▶ 47:28 Peter D. Mortimer: before here at the melrose board of aldermen thank you for the opportunity to submit my comments on order 2017-12 the order tonight is very simple it is a proposed name change we are not voting to raise or cut taxes we are not voting on new zoning we are not appropriating any funds nothing in this order will substantially change the makeup of the city of Melrose it won't change our neighborhoods our downtown or our schools it simply seeks to change the name of this board of aldermen to that of a City Council when I speak to residents many do not know what an alderman is and I explain what it is by saying it is essentially a city council law my point is that at any time when government can make their role easier for those they serve to understand it allows government to work better with its residents and it opens up the relationship in a more welcoming way I I love explaining what I do for our residents as an alderman, but the term is antiquated and I no longer see the need to exacerbate the disconnect any further. When seeking to change a name or a term, I feel that it is important to understand the history of that word. The etymology of the word alderman is important as it goes to the root meaning of the word and why it was fashioned. Interestingly, I am traveling in Denmark, and the term alderman is a Danish word that literally means elder man. In the alderman office just next door to our chamber, you will see photos of Melrose's first board of aldermen in 1900, That board was made up entirely of all men, and in fact, it was before women even had the right to vote. At the time, perhaps the term made more sense then than it does today. The term alderman is not something that was unique to Melrose then. Many cities and towns used the term years ago, and I believe that only two remain. My father, this is Alderman Zwirko speaking, my father was an alderman in the city of Holyoke, but in 1991, they too made the change to city council. The term is only unique to Melrose today because the city never updated the name. It became unique by inaction, and tonight's order seeks to correct that. Melrose is a unique city. It is a city that I am proud to call home. But the term Alderman isn't something I think of when I think of Melrose, and it certainly isn't something that differentiates us from other cities and towns. Melrose has and will continue to lead other cities in the Commonwealth in our policies and in our actions. We have led on energy efficiency efforts, regionalization of city services, joining the GIC, and many other areas. When I think of Melrose, I don't say to myself, this is the city that has Alderman. No, I think of our vibrant downtown, our deep community spirit and commitment to each other, our Victorian homes and El Pond, amongst many others. This is not a big change, but it is an important one. Here and now, it is time to have progress that we can be proud of. Thank you for allowing me to have my comments read before you in absentia this evening. When I return tomorrow, I look forward to discussing this order further in the process. Sincerely, Michael P. Zwirko, Alderman at Large.

▶ 51:50 Peter D. Mortimer: is there any other discussion or comments alderman inferno please thank

▶ 51:53 Gail Infurna: you very much I just want to make a few statements first of all does the term alderman raise questions to what it means sure my 18 years I've been explaining what it is I've never minded explaining what an alderman does I never thought of ill of anyone who even asked what an alderman does I never drew judgment on that so what's wrong with explaining isn't that communication isn't that education educating people so I don't have a problem with answering those questions petitioning the great and general court should be for far more important issues that may have a direct effort effect on the people's quality of life I really don't see such an effect on this also if we were going to petition the great and general court on a special charter change maybe we should look at the charter and see if there are any other tweaks that we should be looking at I think it's been about 14 years maybe president caught 13 14 years

▶ 52:59 Gail Infurna: that we did that yeah so so maybe it is time to do that too to just send this up with to to utilize I guess the courts time on one order seems a little you know silly and is there a cost related to this change I'm sure there's a cost a little cost but remember time is money and I think you know our city departments will have to work on making some of the changes and do they have that time for that and as I say and and as it has been said time equals money I have also heard that we should become more modern and use the term because the alderman is such a old term well Malden is Melrose Malden whoa that's going back sorry about that Melrose is proud of its history but it also has become pioneers on many modern issues we've been the first to do many changes in our zoning and what we are looking like so we have been progressive and I don't think this I don't think this means that we're not a progressive of community by calling ourselves the board of aldermen and regarding the neutral gender theory never bothered me don't believe there is any um buddy out there any woman out there that um because we're called the board of aldermen has not seeked election if she wanted to the word counselor when we say city councilor or city council it sounds to me like we are a bigger city than what we really are and we're a very quaint little town we we we are a city but we kind of think of ourselves as a town so I I don't even like the idea of City Council it just sounds much more bigger more metropolis and and like other cities that surround us and I don't think we are that and word counselor can also be confusing because if I just said to someone how are you this evening counselor oh then you must be a lawyer or something so I think there's confusion no matter what we do in life but this is what education and communication is all about I support remaining on the board of aldermen thank

▶ 55:12 Peter D. Mortimer: you alderman inferno before I call on you alderman boy so let me ascertain if there's anyone else for the first time is there anybody else for the first time would like to speak alderman Mary Beth MacMaster my goal is thank you I have a

▶ 55:23 Mary Beth McAteer-Margolis: question for attorney our attorney von camp Van Campen and I don't see it I don't think you don't know I'm not sure if you know this count the council counselor as in attorney counselor lawyer counselor when we did the city charter over that took effect ten years ago was there any consideration at that point I know we had a citizens group and we had an advisory group was there any consideration at that point of changing the name of this board that predates me

▶ 55:55 Speaker 1: I I would only be guessing and I would defer to perhaps some of the more seasoned members of the board who may have been around at that time I mean I

▶ 56:05 Mary Beth McAteer-Margolis: was there at the school committee and I believe there was some but I can't I can't I was not on the Charter Committee so do have a point of information mr.

▶ 56:14 Speaker 4: VanCampen has nothing what happens is there are two ways that you can amend the city charter you can have an elected Charter Commission we didn't do that we We had a charter committee that was appointed by Mayor Dolman. The charter committee held hearings and presented a proposed charter for the Board of Aldermen. The Board of Aldermen had to make a determination as to whether to send the proposed charter forward or not. And there's a couple of consultants who do all of the consulting relative to charter changes in Massachusetts. all of the charters are very similar that come forward and all of the proposed charters that i've seen always contain the term counselor and that that's that's a long lawyer's way of saying yes there was discussion about alderman and counselor at the time so when we say that there was in a prior speaker or a prior author uh indicated that we there's been no action there There was discussion relative to whether or not to change the terminology 10 or 12 years ago. And at that time, the committee that was studying the charter appointed by the mayor opted to put forth a proposed charter that kept the term alderman. But they did discuss, debate, go back and forth relative to that. And I would love to have an opportunity to have another shot at some of the issues that I lost in discussion relative to that charter. the more comprehensive charter reform would be something that would be of interest to me

▶ 57:57 Mary Beth McAteer-Margolis: so um through the through the chair to um president khan uh was that the charter that we then had on the municipal ballot that the public voted on or was that the earlier one in

▶ 58:13 Mary Beth McAteer-Margolis: like 19 the early one was 19 96 94. in the so we did the community did not vote on the 2006. no yes we did it was a valid question if i wasn't clear let me let me yes try again

▶ 58:24 Speaker 4: the process was the mayor appointed a citizen commission uh to look into a new charter the citizen commission retained a consultant they had numerous hearings the people that i can remember who were on the committee were former alderman susan kelleher alderman inferna former alderman ron alley uh jim share him share um that's about that's about all that i can think of off the top of my head they deliberated they held hearings they had citizens hearings they took our 1905 charter or whatever it was at that time and they offered a new a new charter that was new to us they sent it forward to the board of aldermen the board of aldermen had more hearings We went back and forth for five or six nights. The consultant would tell me every night that that's how they do it in some other city, and I would say, well, I don't care. And eventually, the Board of Aldermen voted to pass the recommended charter on to the voters who, at a referendum, voted to approve the charter. After the charter was approved, the process is you have to send it to the great general court who enacts operative legislation to allow this new charter to take effect, and it took effect in 1-1-2-16.

▶ 59:56 Speaker 2: Ten. 1-1-2-0-6.

▶ 1:00:00 Speaker 4: So it's ten years since it's been adopted, but it was a process of a year and a half or so before it got to adoption.

▶ 1:00:09 Mary Beth McAteer-Margolis: I guess my question, and you have answered it, thank you, was did the community have an opportunity to kind of weigh in on this before? And as I thought it did, I wanted to verify with those that were there that the community did have an opportunity and at that time did not seek to make a change.

▶ 1:00:32 Mary Beth McAteer-Margolis: That's all I have to say on it at the moment. Thank you.

▶ 1:00:34 Peter D. Mortimer: Thank you very much. if you were indicating by gesture, Alderman Affern, if you'd like to very quickly I will skip the queue if you had something pertinent and short to say

▶ 1:00:45 Gail Infurna: No, I think if Alderman McAteer-Margolis is all set but I do recall that we did, there was that option out there, there was discussion amongst the little committees and the subcommittees and what not and there was no interest to make that change. Thank you. Thank you very much

▶ 1:01:00 Peter D. Mortimer: Alderman Wright for the first time, sorry, Alderman Boycelle

▶ 1:01:06 Francis X. Wright Jr.: got to go with the first ones first thank you mr. chairman I guess from my

▶ 1:01:13 Francis X. Wright Jr.: perspective I guess first I'll address all the minute burner as it comes to board of aldermen I don't think that's a term for small cities or towns some of all has a board of aldermen at three or four times our size Chicago has a boy sure if we're going to maintain past practice I was going to make the argument then we should look at our predecessors behind the podium and the mustaches those gentlemen have but then I look at the chairman maybe I have to

▶ 1:01:48 Francis X. Wright Jr.: withdraw that look to your right as well but my point I guess is I mean it's great to have tradition and I don't have a problem with that but I also don't have a problem with change. I think if it helps, then fine. What's more important is what we do than what we're called or what people want to refer to us as. I don't have a strong feeling either way I'm going to support this order. I can understand both sides, but I think ultimately it's what we do that matters and not what we're called.

▶ 1:02:26 Peter D. Mortimer: Thank you, Alderman Wright. Any other aldermen for the first time? Seeing none, oh, Alderman Forbes, please.

▶ 1:02:32 Scott M. Forbes: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate the dialogue of all my colleagues here tonight. Me personally, I'm not going to support this order right now the way it stands at the term counselor. I would prefer to have a board of aldermen made up of alderman and alderwoman, if that's something that would be considered amongst this board. There are 351 cities and towns in Melrose, I mean Melrose, in Melrose, in Massachusetts. Fifty of them are cities and 300, one of them are towns. And out of those 300 towns, over 290 of them have a form of government that is a board of selectmen. I feel like a selectman and an alderman kind of run the same, they're synonymous with one another. um whether or not you think there's a question of gender neutrality in 86 of the commonwealth that is up for discussion i'd be more than happy to have that have that conversation and debate

▶ 1:03:41 Scott M. Forbes: i don't know if i know that there's tradition here i know there's a lot of people on this wall that presided over boards that cared about their community made decisions and brought us to where we are here today um i've lived in melrose all my life i'm proud to be for Melrose I'm proud of the tradition I enjoy being having something that is unique saying that we are a Board of Aldermen when I sit and engage with residents and they ask what is a Board of Aldermen member do to me it represents an opportunity because they're actually engaging in the conversation they're initiating the conversation so I don't think it's divisive I don't think it sets any any barriers per se because if you're engaged in the process and you want to learn you're going to ask if you're not engage in local government then you're simply not going to ask and move along but anytime that i have a chance or an opportunity to explain myself and what i do and what my role is as far as city government i i it never gets old for me um and of course i know that my point of view uh many people could agree with what i'm saying many people may disagree with what i'm saying and that's absolutely fine because you know i i think that everybody's opinion matters i respect everybody here on this board and what they have to say um but again if we're if we're going to make the change i would rather prefer to keep the board of aldermen you know i have no problem calling somebody an alderwoman to me i think the term alderman is gender neutral that's my point of view i live in a day and an age where i have a 14 year old daughter who's going to be a freshman at merrimack high school up in new hampshire that term freshman i look at is the same way i look as alderman i served 20 years in the military united states air force we have an airman's creed whether you're officer or enlisted man or woman we are all airmen that is a gender neutral term it is inclusive i look at that word the same way as i look at alderman the same way i look at selectmen same way i look at freshmen i appreciate everyone's conversation i appreciate everyone's dialogue here tonight but as of tonight the way this is worded with counselor i i am not going going to support this order Thank You mr. chairman Thank You alderman Forbes

▶ 1:05:48 Peter D. Mortimer: at long last alderman boy self for the second time there's been a lot of

▶ 1:05:56 Robert A. Boisselle: definitions of alderman and councilman encyclopedia botanica the title of alderman was typically used for members of the legislature in those cities that use a mayor council form of government in this type of system the alderman were usually elected by wards or citywide contests. By contrast, members of the legislature and cities that use the commissioner or council manager type governments were usually referred as commissioners or councilmen. These titles are gradually replacing that of aldermen in American city governments, whatever their organizational plan involves. What really is interesting is that once this hit the news and so forth the social networks blossomed out with individuals who got involved with civil government people have never heard before we're actually talking about the Board of Aldermen or City Council and some of these comments I'll just take I love that Melrose has a distinct and historical name of our elected officials I never once considered it because sexist name it's cool we have a tradition that doesn't sound like every other town

▶ 1:07:15 Robert A. Boisselle: another individual alderman is not familiar gender neutrality is another plus city councilor and councilor puts Melrose in the in the terminology elsewhere in the state another individual I think we all spend too much time in worrying about words being politically correct the word man is in the word human I think the gender roles and all that is silly old titles does not mean we have old we hold on to old ways I don't think we should dumb things down for people if they do not understand about the city government they can learn. But I still find the term alderman to be quaint, weird, quite frankly,

▶ 1:08:09 Robert A. Boisselle: and rather precious. There seems to be a mission to change many things that really don't need changing. Glad there's nothing else to worry about in Melrose. What a joke. This compares

▶ 1:08:25 Robert A. Boisselle: with the Red Raiders craziness. Melrose should be concerned with other things. For instance, lowering property tax new police stations the road still blank for the most part need to shore up the school system blank they have to build more modulars the 2 to 5 a.m. parking ban needs to be abolished that particular topic has come up a number of times and discussions here and Caruso space needs to be occupied besides that that's in my ward by the way to be occupied by a

▶ 1:08:56 Speaker 6: The Merrill's Theme Pub, you never guess.

▶ 1:09:02 Robert A. Boisselle: The Red Raiders Pub, perhaps. And Fire Headquarters needs to be rebuilt. It has been an alderman slash men for my entire life. There's no need to change it at all. The word and term alderman slash men needs to stay. They're just people inventing issues instead of taking care of real issues.

▶ 1:09:26 Robert A. Boisselle: I am writing in opposition to Order 2017-12. As a resident of Melrose and amateur historian, I have respect and admiration for the history of our city and believe we need to preserve the characteristics of our city that help make us unique. The simple title of Board of Aldermen reminds people of our rich history. I do not believe the argument made by some the current title causes confusion among residents in today's connected culture it would take less than a minute for someone to figure out that the Board of Aldermen is a legislative branch of the government another one this proposal is very modest and reasonable change that I think will none nonetheless encourage and increase civic engagement it really has by all members of our community I'm I'm very glad to see our leaders are considering this proposal.

▶ 1:10:26 Robert A. Boisselle: I don't think going through the process of petitioning the great and general court improves even one person's life in a real meaningful way. It would seem as though there are more pressing matters to command the board's attention. Will the next step be to amend the constitution to do away with the term congressman in favor of a more gender neutral title? And it goes on, and it was very interesting, but this particular topic has really gotten to the individuals in the community to discuss civics and the social network.

▶ 1:11:09 Robert A. Boisselle: And even when I was going through the wards, doing the campaigning and so forth, it was always nice to have someone say, what is an alderman to me? And I would explain it to them and try to give as much information as I could. and they were very pleased with that definition and I'm here serving because

▶ 1:11:30 Speaker 6: of that Thank You mr. chairman Thank You alderman

▶ 1:11:34 Peter D. Mortimer: Boycelle alderman Margolis excuse me alderman Medeiros please thank you

▶ 1:11:41 Monica C. Medeiros: you're welcome so I've grown up here in Melrose my whole life I remember being a kid and getting in the mail my parents receiving in the mail some of those little cards that say you know vote for so-and-so for alderman and I remember

▶ 1:12:00 Monica C. Medeiros: you know people coming around and and thinking you know well what is this and of course I'm explaining it and thinking to myself that you know someday that's something I might like to do and never for one minute did it ever occur to me that I couldn't do this because the title was alderman never once and you know I've been happy and proud to to run and and serve and run on this board you know five times to be an alderman and I love going I love it when people ask you know what is an alderman do I love going to community reading day and getting the opportunity to talk to the kids and answer that question what what is an alderman what does an alderman do because at that age it really you know City Council mayor anything else doesn't mean anything to them it's a matter of us being out there and gets it has it means that we explain we make the laws we talk about voting on how the money is spent we talk about approving people and for different positions and licenses and talk about what does an alderman actually do and I love to do that with the boys and girls at school because I hope that someday one of them might decide that they would like to do this someday but even going out and going around the community knocking on doors for all those years standing in front of Shaw's standing in front of you know Whole Foods or Starbucks or Rite Aid or Dunkin Donuts or wherever it may be collecting signatures and talking to people you know nobody's people ask what

▶ 1:13:48 Monica C. Medeiros: is an alderman do why do they call it that but it's not the issue that people are concerned with changing about our government over they're concerned about some of the things that Alderman Boisselle talked about taxes water sewer

▶ 1:14:10 Monica C. Medeiros: the schools the big stuff I think it's an opportunity every time I get to answer that question what does an alderman do and if I simply said we're a City Council I have no faith that that would meet any more clear or transparent to people about what we actually do and what our role is so at this point I support keeping aldermen I'm proud to be an alderman I hope someday we'll have some more you know women's pictures on these these walls I hope maybe we'll see some women's pictures upstairs someday but in the meantime it doesn't matter really it matters whether does not whether we're men or women but it's about the people who fill this role it's about how we treat people how we treat the public when they come for public participation making sure that they feel comfortable to talk about things and and how we interact with people and I'm

▶ 1:15:04 Peter D. Mortimer: happy to be an alderman Thanks Thank You alderman Medeiros alderman

▶ 1:15:09 Jennifer L. Lemmerman: limelight please Thank You mr. chairman and I want to say thank you to all of my colleagues who have weighed in on this I think it's another another example of what alderman boys I'll mention which is having very good discussion on on the merits and and the issues just wanted to mention a few things you know I I think that having a clearer term in my view is about a legislative body trying to make itself more accessible and more transparent to its constituents and that although we certainly of course don't mind explaining what an alderman is and certainly don't judge anyone who doesn't understand it because it is in fact a term that is increasingly not understood it shouldn't be up to residents to have to learn that from us it should be something that is understood and is accessible to residents and that would then open up the discussion to the actual issues instead of explaining what we do the last time that this was brought up as we we got a good history lesson of the Charter and the last time that this was discussed ten years ago you know that was a time that's different than now and you know if you see in the background information there are several cities that have changed since then the trend of people or communities wanting to use a term that is more accessible has has increased in that time frame and so you know I feel that this is something that changes with the time I also think that this doesn't stop us from doing the big stuff this is certainly not the biggest issue in Melrose but we can do more than one thing at a time and if anything I hope that having more dialogue and having more public participation would allow us to do that so those are some of my thoughts as we've had this discussion I appreciate everyone's thoughts and I I would like to make a motion to recommend this order for passage we have a motion

▶ 1:17:21 Peter D. Mortimer: to recommend this order for passage after which we will have more discussion pending a second second second that there's a motion to recommend this order for passage at our next full board meeting made by Alderman Lemmerman duly seconded by Alderman Wright in spite of the motion being made and seconded or Or because of the motion being made and seconded, the discussion will continue. And Alderman Wright, I have you first in queue for a second time. But before that we'll hear, excuse me, before that we'll hear from President Khan for the first time. President Khan, please.

▶ 1:17:58 Speaker 4: Yeah.

▶ 1:18:06 Speaker 4: As I look at this, I don't think this is the appropriate process. I know it's a legal process for us to amend the charter, but I don't think it's an appropriate process. There's a statutory framework, Mr. Van Campen, that's laid out to change or amend charters, is that not correct? Correct. And I understand, and this is essentially correcting,

▶ 1:18:28 Speaker 4: it's not substantively changing the structure of government or the powers of anybody. But it's not consistent with the two ways that the commonwealth allows us to change charters, which would be a process that we used before, or an elected charter commission, which would stand for election and then come up with a charter and then the charter would be passed. We've now had ten years of experience under this prior charter. And the prior charter was kind of a compromised document. And the Mayor, to his credit, realizing that for this to pass, he needed to hear from all viewpoints. He picked a very diverse group, which we haven't always seen that kind of approach. But in that particular instance, the Mayor cobbled together divergent viewpoints. Some people were diametrically opposed, and I was always wondering whether they were punching it out in the back room before their meeting. Some of these people were so, so the document that emerged came out as kind of a compromised document, and it won't come as any surprise to anybody here, there's a lot of things in it that I was not happy with. I remember five, six meetings coming down and telling people please not to vote for a four year term for the mayor in the charter, and there are other things of that nature.

▶ 1:20:12 Speaker 4: I think after ten years, I would love to have a more comprehensive look at the charter. And I would like his honor to consider whether it's time for him to appoint a commission to take a look at the charter. to determine whether there are things that we need to be changed, that need to change. Society and things are changing so quickly in our current world, that ten years is now a lot longer time ago, it seems, than it was when we were younger. So I think that issues of changing the charter should be looked at. I think this issue should be looked at as one of those issues. I always tell myself to keep quiet on things and then I never do. I understand part of the arguments relative to this. We certainly don't want to retain a name that's offensive to people if it is in fact offensive to people.

▶ 1:21:21 Speaker 4: i i don't understand the accessibility and transparency arguments which respectfully to everybody here any issue we ever talk about we're told to talk about accessibility and transparency i don't know how changing the name makes us more accessible and more transparent i think the real issue that the board would have to have to struggle with here is whether this name is something that is outdated and is offensive to people that's that's the real issue not whether this is going to encourage transparency or accountability and i think if we were to make a change we should do it in the context of talking about a global charter change i i there are issues that are important to me that i that that were not on the prevailing side in the last charter and i don't think i can take one of those issues and ask the great general court to rule on it. I don't think that's appropriate. The public weighed in and voted the last time, and I would like to have some public participation or role in any change in the Charter, no matter how minor. That's all.

▶ 1:22:31 Peter D. Mortimer: CHAIRMAN BERNANKE. Thank you, President Kahn. Alderman Wright, please.

▶ 1:22:33 Francis X. Wright Jr.: MR. Thank you. Just quick points. Just legally, Mr. Van Kemp, I'm following up on Alderman Kahn's question. Is it a, I want to ask you if it's an appropriate role, but is it a legally appropriate, a legal, I won't say appropriate. Correct. It is. Is it legal for us to There have been other communities in the commonwealth that have To just petition Actuated a name change The state legislature Through the legislature Okay. Home rule proceedings.

▶ 1:23:05 Speaker 1: So the, what's in front of you this evening is correct. The process, which has already been vetted by Senate and House counsel, as I said earlier in my remarks um so this process is appropriate for alderman Lemmerman goal okay which is essentially a technical change to the city charter not a substantive change in the way the city operates and the way the executive operates at the school committee or the legislature so it's appropriate in that respect thank you what president khan's referring to is the sort of this charter review process yes i think the statute's 43b but don't quote me on that what sets up options by which communities can review their charter in total to determine what changes they'd like to see and go through this public proceeding as we did 11 years ago okay no and I understand that and I think that that's a whole nother issue and I think that's an issue we also can address at some point thank you with regards then and this is not a comment for you mr. city solicitor but with regards to the vote that the public made on the Charter amendment ten years

▶ 1:24:18 Francis X. Wright Jr.: ago I wasn't on this board but I was I was on the zoning board at the time I've been a resident here for many years at that point and I have a clear memory that the issues that seem to be on the mind of most people voting on that were are we going to change the term of the mayor from two years to four years and where we're going to change the composition of the school committee from seven from nine members to seven members add the mayor and change the way the terms were set up I don't remember anyone in this community speaking to me or in conversation discussing should we change the name of the Board of Aldermen to City Council and I say that not because I don't think it was an issue that they supported but I don't think it was an issue that anyone really gave any thought to we were changing the Charter as a whole but the reality was people were focused on in my mind at least in my in my experience was that people were focused on the terms of the mayor composition of the school committee and the terms of the school committee members so I think if we had included at that time we're going to change the name of the Board of Alderman City Council it's still would have passed that's just my opinion with regards to Alderman Forbes point um and and and i say this with all due respect to alderman forbes um as someone who works every day in municipal government so i have a better sense of this uh and i think it goes to prove all the malevolence point when you say why don't we just call ourselves selectmen we aren't selecting selectmen are in towns alderman and counselors are in cities

▶ 1:26:22 Francis X. Wright Jr.: so if there's confusion as to what a selectman is versus a counselor versus an alderman then I think that goes to that point and I think people do understand what a counselor is and I think people live in towns understand what a selectman is but there seems to be some disagreement as to what level of

▶ 1:26:42 Francis X. Wright Jr.: understanding there is as to what an alderman is and I do mean that with all due respect to everybody and their points they made this is my opinion as to what I experienced ten years ago what I understand as to the terms council of selectmen alderman and for the purposes of clarity only I'll support this order because I think people do better understand when all them and what counselor is versus and the City Council is versus an alderman and a board of alderman so i i respect historically calling this board a board of aldermen i think if it was up to me and it was just my little club i would call it a board of alderman but it's not it's there's people moving in for the city and there are people who lived here a long time who are just getting involved in politics and i think because of the way the world has changed they better understand the term city council and city council than they do all of them thank you thank you alderman wright

▶ 1:27:50 Mary Beth McAteer-Margolis: alderman MacMaster my goal is please thank you mr chairman this is so interesting because um i i really hadn't made up my mind before i came in here tonight and i feel like i still see both sides of this issue so clearly um again having grown up in melrose and having similar experiences to Alderman Medeiros and Alderman Inferna, despite that she was in a neighboring community. I feel that there's something about being a member of the Board of Aldermen, and that's generally how I phrase it, because to me that makes it gender neutral, if you will, and I've never really considered it in that respect, but I understand how it could be, for some people, perhaps offensive, as President Khan has even mentioned.

▶ 1:28:47 Mary Beth McAteer-Margolis: I do feel, though, that we are a very unique community. I think we are innovative. I think, despite that, we are also quaint. think we are one of the smallest cities actually in the state of Massachusetts so I I think there's a lot to be said for the tradition of maintaining ourselves as Board of Aldermen and I also think that Alderman Wright is correct because I was finishing my term on the school committee when we were making that charter change and I remember coming in for several of the meetings and I don't know what happened in the back room with the slugfest or whatever and what was discussed with all of the different segments of the Charter change but I do know that most people were focused on the changes that affected the school committee and maybe that was just because I was serving in that role at that time but I also think I find myself agreeing with people I don't often agree with here and not just people on this board I have to say with

▶ 1:29:59 Mary Beth McAteer-Margolis: all due respect that you know it is it is perhaps time to be looking at the bigger picture here of a Charter change and of looking at the things that need to be done and and no disrespect intended president gone but no I do think that there are issues that perhaps as we have new people moving into this community we should be looking at and addressing and you know maybe maybe this could be the leader in getting to that point whether or not we do it now through this mechanism which is legal but I found reading social media getting emails from people talking to people in the street it was really like a 50-50 for me and I really sort of feel like I'd like more information from the public on this I'd like to have a better representation from people you know I called a few people who have been around for a long time and they said it doesn't really matter and then some people said oh my gosh don't change it and then I talked to some new people who said yeah like what what is that Alderman thing all about anyways on the other hand I think people hear the word City Council and they have certain assumptions which may or may not be correct so maybe an opportunity to say well alderman do thus and such is kind of more of an entry for them as opposed to oh okay you're on the City Council and then like I don't know what they really do but you know they they do something down there on Monday nights yeah I'm still feeling somewhat conflicted about it and I feel like it should be part of a bigger picture that includes more comment from the public and more direction from our residents as to what they think this body should be and how they feel we should be representing them so I'm still not

▶ 1:32:19 Speaker 2: saying yes or no sorry sooner or later we'll have both yes right next in queue

▶ 1:32:21 Peter D. Mortimer: we have President Khan please yeah just very quickly I just want to be clear

▶ 1:32:26 Speaker 4: about the question that I was asked on a point of information was whether the issue of the name change was discussed was I believe what the question was and And the answer to that is yes, and I was at meetings at which it was discussed. The document that was generated by the consultant called the body the city council. So there was discussion by the charter committee and there was a conscious vote by that committee not to change the name. Do I know what was in people's heads and what their priority was and what they were focusing on? No, but I was responding to the question as to whether the issue was discussed, and yes, it was discussed.

▶ 1:33:10 Peter D. Mortimer: That is all. Thank you very much, President Kahn. I see no one else desiring to be heard at this time. There was a motion made by Alderman Lemmerman to recommend this order for passage to our next full board meeting. Thank you very much for your commentary, City Solicitor Van Kampen, as you step away, sir. And once again, there was a motion made to recommend this order for passage by Alderman Lemmerman, duly seconded by Alderman Wright. Seeing no further discussion, all in favor, please say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Opposed. It looks as though with ten members in attendance that three were in favor and seven were opposed. The motion to recommend this order for passage fails.