ORDER-2017-27 : Bond in the amount of $400,000 for Design and Project Management Services for Modular Classrooms at the Winthrop and Hoover Schools and Renovations to the Horace Mann School

Transcript (~1 h 16 min @ 47:52)

Speakers identified by voice; unnamed voices are numbered within this recording. Auto-caption text — verify against the video.

▶ 47:48 Robert A. Boisselle: chairman like to make a motion to take order 2017-27 out of order and begin

▶ 47:56 Peter D. Mortimer: discussion on that. Alderman Boycella has made a motion to alter the order of business to take order 2017-27. Out of order and next. Who's seconded that, please? Alderman Medeiros has seconded that motion. All in favor, please say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Hearing none, we will take up that order, the number 2017-27. It is a bond in the amount of $400,000 for design and project management services for modular classrooms at the Winthrop and Hoover school and renovations to the Horace Mann school is there a motion to suspend the rules please so moved Alderman Forbes has made a motion to suspend the rules duly seconded by Alderman Inferno all in favor please say aye any opposed hearing none we are under suspension for this order and the presentation it looks like we'll begin by mrs. work Oh who's adjusting the screen and the mayor the superintendent of schools and it looks like our chief financial officer and city auditor mr. de la Rousseau is coming forward a city planner is Gaffey

▶ 49:28 Speaker 3: is here great thank you everybody you're all set please proceed thank you

▶ 49:45 Speaker 6: after a lengthy and inclusive process we present to you a proposal to move forward on a plan to address student population increases in the city of Melrose and the need for immediate need for more classroom space in our schools population increases are extremely hard to predict predict and track the city in cooperation with the schools has made many modifications to the current school structures including building new classrooms renovations etc we have now reached a point due to a dramatic increase in the school age population in the last two years it is time to act we began this process well over a year ago with a good demographic study a presentation of several options by our superintendent was done publicly we had a well incredibly well attended and meaningful and vocal community meeting to discuss the issues a review by our permanent school building committee has found that the presentation that we're making before before you today is endorsed unanimously by that committee and we may have made a presentation in the school committee has done a full review and the school committee too has a unanimous recommendation for the plan that we bring before you tonight what was clear was that the community has a true commitment to our current expanded neighborhood school model that includes the k through five elementary schools as well as grades six through eight at our middle school and nine to twelve at melrose high school the proposal approved by the school building committee and the melrose School Committee endorsed by myself includes the use of module school additions as well as a renovation to the Horace Mann Elementary School that provides a long-term solution the challenges that we face tonight we're asking you to provide funding to our architectural team to proceed further with these designs and plans the team that presents these recommendations to tonight is the exact same team that built the melrose veterans memorial middle school that renovated melrose high school in the hoover elementary school as well that has led all of our school projects over the last 15 years they are second to none in terms of the knowledge of this community in the high standards that we keep they are keenly aware of cost and quality and have an outstanding working relationship with our superintendent our principals and all of our senior school staff the plan that has been recommended recommended is i believe the best plan for students first and educators it protects the clear desires of myself and others that fifth graders should remain in our elementary schools that eighth graders should remain in our middle school and that our high school again should be nine through twelve I would also argue that the plan provides additional school improvements, such as greater ADA compliance, open space improvements, and advancing educational equity in our schools that currently doesn't exist. I ask for all of you to support this measure after your consideration this evening as we advance our solution to this great challenge that this city faces. Thank you.

▶ 53:06 Speaker 4: Thank you very much.

▶ 53:13 Speaker 4: man Dolan so president Khan please oh they're further presentation that we

▶ 53:16 Speaker 2: would like to make first so then you could focus your questions more specifically with the board's indulgence very good please proceed with the

▶ 53:30 Speaker 7: presentation good evening my name is Charlie hey I'm a principal at tap a architects in Boston thank you for giving me the opportunity to speak to you this evening I think you may have already seen these slides but we were going to take the opportunity to go through the kind of we did a limited feasibility study level exploration of this issue as you're all are aware this summer and into the fall and the written the findings you would that we present you this evening came out of that study the we looked at all five elementary schools early on the decision obviously was that your two newest schools the Lincoln and the Roosevelt word we're not kind of and we're not applicable for additions both because they're large because they have adequate spaces for students and because they don't really have any site available for additional capacity and a lot of this study was about kind of the carrying capacity of the various sites I mean that's what it comes down to ultimately so the three schools that we ended up focusing the attention on relative to possible ways of increasing elementary school level capacity were the Hoover and the Winthrop in the Horace Mann this is an aerial picture of the Hoover School which is the first school that we looked at and the dis in and obviously the decision here was we have a nice thing advanced screen button forgive me technical glitch I didn't know what I was doing it may not be working but Suffice it to say that the area that makes sense in terms of the Hoover School is at the rear where the community garden is now. It's a flat area. It would easily accommodate modular construction. The decision early on was to consider modular construction for a number of reasons, but probably most pressing to the city is time to get it complete. and and with modular construction you can actually get classrooms done by next fall and that was seen as a huge benefit so we looked at the the rear of the Hoover where the community gardens are and the possibility of adding three classrooms at the rear while still maintaining the the pickup drop-off circle and still maintaining the track and play area so with this plan you're able to add three classrooms to the school without impacting negatively on the site or the school itself those would be fully accessible classrooms they would have bathrooms they logically would be built for the small for the youngest students and the only real issue here is that we would be there you see the three classrooms we would be relocating the gardens but we have a location to do that along the fence line of the law the fence law excuse me right

▶ 57:06 Speaker 7: but it's below the classroom below the classrooms along the fence line there's an area that's essentially equivalent in square footage that we can relocate those gardens. And they would be fully accessible gardens and actually they'd probably be a better layout from accessibility point of view. So that would give us three new classrooms at the Hoover. The next location we looked at was the Winthrop. There you see the front of the Winthrop with the formal front entrance and the green space and the front parking. Here you see the rear with the large play area, the existing tarmac and play structures. And in this case, the decision was made to consider two additional classrooms at this location and the only real place to consider putting them is in the existing green space because it's the only place that we have a flat area that's actually relatively level with the first floor so that we can have a fully accessible connection between the new construction and the existing construction. However, there is some displacement of green space. So the proposal here, and you can see it below the white building, there's a kind of a green triangular space. The proposal is to actually take some of that pavement that's out there uh... and create a new field area for the students so while doing this project we not only are able to add two classrooms to the winthrop but we are able to uh... dramatically improve the outdoor area for students uh... the two classrooms would probably make up a four uh... for kindergarten for now anyway a four kindergarten uh... area at the front of the building and we have color coded these these these plans and i know you've looked at them and they propose a configuration but of course this is a change in configuration because your bubble will travel up through the classroom so what may be you know in any one of these plans what may be a four kindergarten plan one year may be a four first grade plan another year uh... so it's not static which means that School administrators will have to adapt that to that reality And so that's that plan that shows the two kindergarten classrooms. This of course at this juncture is a very conceptual You know a thousand foot look at the this this issue But it gives us a good sense of what the possibilities are for the sites This would allow us to bring in in this case. It's for modular units to create two classrooms. These are 14 foot wide Units are proposed. They could be 12 but it allows us to have classrooms that have cubbies that have storage that have bathrooms and have a direct connection to the existing school the final site we looked at was a Horace Mann and in this case after a great deal of discussion it was really quite evident that this site does not have the carrying capacity to accommodate an addition it is it has got all kinds of limitations around the play areas that heavy use for recreation in the city all your existing parking it would have to be obviously as anybody can see the only possible place to put an addition would be in the parking lot so you're talking about a significant displacement of parking the only place that would make sense would be off of the rear that is the rear we also have significant accessibility issues at this school as you can see students and visitors and staff and parents all have to go upstairs to get into the building which is also the case on the front at the existing entrances so we we just we as a committee in a group decided that probably the best approach here was not to increase capacity however the the opportunity after looking at this kind of raised its head which was if we reconfigured the interior we could have an improved entrance we could have a permanent designated library space in a permanent designated art and music space and part of the purpose of this study also was to try to achieve reasonable equity amongst your five elementary schools and in terms of what programs were physically offered within the facilities and this really gets us to a place where we have some equity around that and this is showing a larger scale plan of the area that we would be renovating that green box would become an art music area the blue triangle would become a library area and the gray box would become administration we'd have a new entrance the entrance right now is difficult from a security point of view and from a bit from from a visitor point of view this would be a much better sequence it would allow the students to enter from the other side of the building so it was seen as a good way to actually maybe I came in advance it further a good way to achieve equity among all our facilities I think we're close enough that I'm not gonna worry too much about it but anyway we've come so essentially we have a three a three building program here two of them include um modular additions and one of them includes a more traditional interior renovation and reconfiguration thank you very much sir

▶ 1:03:01 Speaker 6: yes please do that the only uh there are two issues that we face one is this we have to do something there is not a single room available in the Norris public schools next year not a room in fact at the Winthrop school we turn some classrooms in that there are suitable classrooms but are not ideal to say the least the second issue is the idea of moving the eighth grade to the high school Displacing central administration, as well as the construction that would be made to have to do that. Rivals the cost as well as the educational shake up that this proposal does.

▶ 1:03:57 Speaker 6: and it it clearly was not clearly a desired outcome that we received as members of the building committee as members of the school community that the community did not want any part of so as we move forward I just want to be clear

▶ 1:04:12 Peter D. Mortimer: of that Thank You mayor Dolan we're ready to proceed with some colloquy from the horseshoe our first in line we have aldermen's work oh please

▶ 1:04:24 Michael P. Zwirko: thank you mr. chairman appreciate the study and I did attend a couple of those public sessions over the summer so they're very well informed and appreciate you doing that I know that a lot of this spoken to many residents and you know this is it's kind of an interesting situation because it's a good problem to have right you know we've got a lot of new families that are moving to the city a lot of kids that are joining the ranks of the public school so um you know we're buttressed by this great problem um so obviously we have to address it and um you know i got to take a page out of your book mr mayor you you often say when uh we're working and tinkering with the city this is like the fenway park plan and that's one of the things i like the most about this is that it's taking what we have that's existing and actually improving in small ways for the better i i really appreciate the use and the improvement of the green space at winthrop i think that where the modulars have been placed are completely appropriate and you know won't create a you know a huge need for over construction and impeding on the neighborhoods as well i think it's completely practical and pragmatic so you know it's well thought out so i'm greatly appreciative of the plan that's been laid out here and i know that there was a lot of work and that work was also rushed due to the need to get these modulars up been running for the fall of 2017 so you know all that being said you know thank you and I also know that we have a member of the board that serves on the school building committee and I know that the work was equally shared and certainly a burden at times so so thank you for that it doesn't go unnoticed I really I don't really have much to say here you know I approve of the plan as as proposed and I know that this is just the first start this evening the four hundred thousand dollar authorization there will be you know more to come but you know like I said I think the schools in Melrose and all we can ask is that they're improving they certainly are we heard about that last month when scores were released that's certainly no slouch to our administration that's here and I also just wanted to mention that it's nice to see that we have both current and former members of the school committee that are joining us this evening this certainly is a community effort so I'm supportive of the proposal I appreciate the hard work and I look forward to the comments by my fellow

▶ 1:06:34 Peter D. Mortimer: members thank you mr chairman thank you alderman suarco president khan please uh yeah thank you

▶ 1:06:37 Speaker 3: was there any any kind of financial analysis done relative to the various proposals uh

▶ 1:06:51 Denise Gaffey: that were kicked around yeah yes yeah and this information was presented to the school committee back in the spring when we were when the the school department was actively looking at various options so as the mayor mentioned we did look into this concept of an eighth grade Academy at the high school and and did and did get some numbers to try to figure out approximately what that would look like for cost actually we ran the

▶ 1:07:22 Speaker 2: costs of that reclaiming BB right we ran the costs of you know we explored asking build a building but that's a six-year project so we i had put forward um nine proposals eight and eight a and b came to nine proposals and we and we try to run rough estimates of each of those

▶ 1:07:41 Speaker 3: proposals is is there a document that was prepared relative to that analysis could you please get

▶ 1:07:48 Speaker 2: that to us sure yeah but as as the mayor said when it came down to um the two most viable choices either the reconfiguration of the whole grade span k through 12 to move the eighth grade to the high school and the fifth to the middle school in this it was almost as expensive to reclaim my office space and the high school moved the eighth grade over as it is maybe to do um you know the

▶ 1:08:18 Speaker 3: modules at some of these buildings so you did a cost analysis of reconfiguring

▶ 1:08:23 Speaker 2: very rough analysis without bringing in anybody to do estimations and what what was the ballpark

▶ 1:08:31 Denise Gaffey: that we thought would so the ballpark for the um eighth grade academy concept at the high school was roughly 1.5 million dollars to do that construction to build out those classroom spaces but that doesn't take into account the displacement of the administrative staff i mean that was It was basically taking the whole administrative wing and moving them out of the building. So we did actually look at some properties at the time, there's not a lot on the market. But the properties that we're looking at, for example, the car funeral home, was-

▶ 1:09:00 Speaker 6: Yeah, it was 1.6 million, we're talking about another million and a half build out. There was no, it was almost like I was house hunting. We were going to three or four places a week, and they weren't big enough, it had to be retroed out, it weren't handicap accessible. wasn't there to meet their needs, and at the same time, we were dealing with a public that didn't want the fifth graders going to the, the eighth graders going to the high school and the fifth graders going to the middle school.

▶ 1:09:27 Speaker 3: Right, but on a purely financial analysis, it would have been about a million five to do the change within the school to accommodate it. But then you needed to find a home for a central administration.

▶ 1:09:37 Speaker 6: Which is about two mil. Correct.

▶ 1:09:39 Speaker 3: And what did they tell us, or what do we think it would have cost to retrofit the BB to use that?

▶ 1:09:49 Speaker 6: John did that.

▶ 1:09:50 Denise Gaffey: Yeah, I think the number was $1.75 million to do the capital cost that would be needed in that building.

▶ 1:09:59 Speaker 6: Plus the loss of rental.

▶ 1:10:01 Speaker 2: Right. And then operational costs, because then we would have to put in administration there, custodial there. um support staff there as well so there's what's the term of our lease that we have there now mayor

▶ 1:10:14 Speaker 2: we're in the middle of renegotiating that lease right now okay now um and and i understand tap

▶ 1:10:19 Speaker 3: a has a long history of doing projects in the city but i'm sure the public would like to know what kind of a process was undertaken to select them could you get into that please explain for

▶ 1:10:35 Denise Gaffey: us what happened you bet i mean to be selected anytime i do um a capital project like this um and they i do a designer selection process i mean we have to procure an architect we have to procure architects and project managers for vertical construction through a designer selection process so i put together an rfp a request for proposals advertise that on the central register and in the newspaper and here at city hall at least for two two weeks two to three weeks two weeks at a minimum and then collect proposals and so that occurred back in early July I put the issue the RFP I kind of let it got a fair amount of interest in the proposals we ended up having two firms submit so and tap a architects was the most qualified firm and then the firm we

▶ 1:11:26 Speaker 3: chose now you know this is the question that nobody wants me to ask but what do anticipate the cost of this project to be and I understand you know it's not

▶ 1:11:39 Speaker 3: something I'm gonna hold you to but are we looking at three million five million

▶ 1:11:44 Speaker 6: ten million okay so so I always tell people I'm not gonna hold you the cost I was telling you I won't hold you the cost unless you're wrong right here are are the pros we feel that we have uh the experience to to give a fair estimate okay if i were to today right and i come to this board of alderman the project we feel and this is with a good contingency fair contingency 4.4 million and that's today right we feel that that is the that where we are we're at today we we feel that is a good figure right the issue that is different on this project than any other project that none of us can control is the modular market there is a run on modulars from east coast to west coast and there are so many communities arlington has had a very difficult challenging modular maybe mainly because they didn't get enough right but it it I mean I'll let Charlie speak to it it it is not a market where you go to the house of modulars and you have experienced people that know modules they they the modular as an example some of the condominiums that have been built apartments in the city have been modulus the ones on Green Street they work in several different markets and we're used to usually dealing with people that focus on schools or focus on fire stations that is the variable uh president khan that that that does i want to say it keeps me up at night that it makes me concerned a bit about this project that and be able to get it done on time as a result of this backlog and i'll let you speak to that i don't have to i think the

▶ 1:13:28 Speaker 7: mayor has articulated the issue very adeptly i don't know that i have too much data i would only say that that it is completely true that we know the conventional construction marketplace we we We have backlog of data. We know where the bids come in. There are many, many capable contractors out there doing the kind of work. You can know what the scale is. You can know who the players are, and it's a consistent marketplace. With this modular marketplace, there are a limited number of potential bidders. It depends on how busy they are or are not, and they may or may not submit when you send out an RFP. As a result of that, it's very difficult to know precisely what kind of a number we're going to get. And that is, I think as the mayor has very aptly put it, the issue where we're probably less comfortable with the numbers than we would be with a conventional construction project.

▶ 1:14:24 Speaker 6: And we're slower in this process. We were originally going to give the big number tonight and maybe go forward with it. And the reason why we're going forward with not just, but a sizable portion for is to let tap a really mind down what we're doing here for we can we can truly get the best price and certainly be able to share with the board when we go forward a cost that is that is reasonable that we will never have to come back for seconds that we can we can manage the project I mean Denise correct

▶ 1:14:56 Speaker 7: me if I'm wrong but I think your intention was to come back for a full appropriation with that's right with the number in hand with actual numbers we

▶ 1:15:04 Denise Gaffey: We would, the funding that we're asking for tonight would take us through to bidding the project. So design, the full design, putting it out on the street, getting the bids, and then we would come back and request the full fund.

▶ 1:15:17 Speaker 3: Yeah, no, I understand where we are in the process, but with all due respect to my colleagues, once we vote the bond, we're not going to not do the project. We're kind of, we're going down the road, so, and this is an important, it's an important step.

▶ 1:15:30 Speaker 6: If I were to go before today, it'd be 4.4, that's where we're at right now. We came around the table to agree to that number at this time. If it comes in a little bit more, it's not because anyone did anything wrong, it's because the market, with supply and demand, if more people want modules and less people building them, the price is going to go up. The question is then, do we not pay that or do we revert back to another option? Do we have music and art in all the classrooms? I think, again, these are are not considered temporary solutions i want to make this clear the public because i always hear this yeah people want to know what the useful life is this this is a real this is a actual building that is attached to the school it's a real building it's not half a building it's not kind of a building it's a true structure and i don't know if you want to speak to you

▶ 1:16:18 Speaker 7: the uh the modular companies would say this is a 20-year building so conventional construction they'd probably say a 50-year building, but this would be a 20-year building.

▶ 1:16:29 Speaker 3: And I presume you folks have worked on additions using modular in the past. And do you have like a spec of what you want that's overly simplified in things?

▶ 1:16:39 Speaker 7: I think that you would find they're very simple, and it's a flat roof, and it's going to have simple siding, and then the interior will seem just like any conventional classroom. It'll have drywall walls. It'll have acoustic ceiling tiles. It will have good, high-quality lighting. It will have good flooring. It will have conventional casework and cubbies, so it will feel good windows. It's going to feel to a student like a conventional, nice, new classroom with plenty of light, big windows. So it will be a very nice learning environment. The exterior will probably be, you know, less exotic. I mean, less handsome than a new brick building.

▶ 1:17:28 Speaker 3: And we feel that this population bump is not a one or two year scenario here. This is something that we're going to be dealing with for some time.

▶ 1:17:34 Speaker 6: Yes, yes. And I also want to make it clear, President Conn, that after we go through this process and get the designs, our goal is again to have neighborhood meetings in each of the neighborhoods affected to allow not just parents, but abutters to take a look at these facilities and go through that same process again, we have final we have final well in you know again probably not a fair question

▶ 1:18:00 Speaker 3: but what what percentage of this project if you can give it a percentage do you

▶ 1:18:11 Denise Gaffey: think the renovation of the harvest main school would be so it's about maybe a little over a third so it is essentially two different projects if you want to look at it that way there's modular construction which is procured differently than the than this building construction so we would treat it like two separate projects and um i think the way the estimate was shaking out and it's about a third or slightly more than

▶ 1:18:35 Speaker 3: a third of the cost for the horse man okay and and to mr delarusso uh my standard bond question i'm just going to abbreviate it can you give me the terms of the bond the annual cost when we'll start paying and everything else that i usually ask you and if you forget anything i'll ask it That sounds like a deal. Typical note would be 20 years and I believe you may have this in your packet. Mm-hm. Probably about $35,000 a year, I think, on average for the $400,000 note. We're using 5% interest, which we're all hoping in this room that's less than that at the time. But we've been conservative and that's worked for us.

▶ 1:19:20 Speaker 3: We went back and we have a 30 year model for debt. I think it's really important that we refresh ourselves as to where we're at. We have a 30 year model with debt for the general fund. And what's interesting is that two-thirds of our debt service is paid off within ten years. So if you look at the scope here from 2018 to In 2028, you'll see that two-thirds of the city's debt service is paid off. And it's on a slope that we all want, so that this means two things. It means you're doing the right thing. You have not exceeded, you haven't even exceeded 4% of the year, let alone five. For the duration of the note, which is wonderful, 5% of your budget, general fund was our limitation. We haven't even touched 4% yet. And having said that, this tells you that you have capacity for future projects. You're not limiting yourself, is what I'm trying to say, in the future. You're not limiting the future administration. And I think, again, the same policy of when we present to this board, we ensure that, as Darlene Kahn's point, that we never exceed 5% for the next, that we wouldn't be here tonight and that we maintain that same portfolio of being very conservative on our estimation of cost. For the actual note, so that this is not in any way the cost minimized if we don't do that. We've never done that here. And we also have, which at the board's this pleasure I can provide before the next meeting is both page one which shows that each and every year we're under 4% of debt service. associated debt service by year and I also like page two unlike the state assessments which is page two on the recap I mean the chair sheet but also shows capacity by year in the event that the board wanted to do more acquisitions for capital in the future it gives you a nice ballpark as to where you stand and what type of capital you're able to absorb in future years so dollar wise It's a nice plus percentage, it meets all those guidelines, sir. And Ms. Gaffey, tell us what your timeline is in terms of how this project would unfold.

▶ 1:21:42 Denise Gaffey: So it's an ambitious project. We really were hoping to get a vote soon so that we can move forward with the design and get the projects to bid by you know the end of the year or early January the modulus would be fabricated in a factory and then they would be delivered by truck to the site so we would be we would be able to do some site work at the two on one elementary schools in the spring just cordon the space off and do that and they would be ready to accept the modulus next summer in terms of the Horace man we it's this getting the time frame that we have the amount of time that we have available is is a challenge I mean we hope to be able to accomplish the project in the summer months next year we have enough time to do the design work and the procurement and get a contractor in place but whether we can get all of that construction done in a 10-week period is a little bit of a

▶ 1:22:49 Speaker 3: challenge okay so you're looking for the board to act on this within the within the next couple of weeks and then you want to get uh get bids out get moving on the complete the

▶ 1:22:57 Denise Gaffey: design so we can put the um construction documents together and by january february time right yeah

▶ 1:23:06 Speaker 7: does that sound right to you january or right i think you want to have them i think you need to have those modular proposals back in january i'm not sure you'd have the bids in hand for the Horace Mann but then however that's a lot easier yeah and I spoke to miss

▶ 1:23:19 Speaker 3: Gaffey about this really today if I can get whatever financial analysis you had relative to the various options I was appreciated that's probably more than

▶ 1:23:31 Peter D. Mortimer: enough thank you very much president Kahn Alderman limelight please thank you

▶ 1:23:36 Jennifer L. Lemmerman: mr. chair thank you all very much for being with us tonight to explain all of this I as was mentioned in the presentations was a very long process that I it's been going I think since I've been a member of the school building committee so very excited as I'm sure you all are as well to have it at this point in front of the board and I think that you know I can say obviously that I support it as a member of that committee and and having gone through that process in this committee obviously that committee has obviously supported it we had the public input a lot of public input that this was sort of the route that people preferred and the financial analysis and even just anecdotally speaking to other towns that have modular classrooms I've heard you know people fight over who gets to be in the modulars because they're beautiful and they're climate controlled and they're they're nice so you know I do think this is a great option for us one of the things I wanted to touch on a little bit and President Kahn alluded to it as well that you know bubble maybe isn't necessarily the right term for this we are projecting growth for many years ahead I think my yet to arrive child is going to be in like first grade by the time this Peaks out to you know sort of display quite how long we're looking at this so one of the conversations that really happened a lot during this committee and I wanted to you know ask you to elaborate a little bit on this was how to make sure that we weren't planning for too much and that we were being conservative in that regard but allowing the flexibility that we may need in the future for the amount that we can possibly project and wanted

▶ 1:25:21 Speaker 2: to have you just a little bit of that so we struggled with this because we recognize the financial burden on the city by taking on another bonding project even though you have capacity so as we worked our way through the process for which you were present we came to the conclusion that we would rather be conservative and build a little bit less than over build and part of what Miss Gaffey and I were you know talked about is if you get an estimate from MSBA it's always under because they don't want you to over bid if you get an estimate from NASDAQ it's always a little over because they don't want you to under under build the demographic studies so we are trying to take a balanced approach so when the issues began to evolve on the placement as mr. Hay has point pointed out we realized it was an opportunity to step back and be a little bit more conservative in our how many modules we built out so we chose five instead of six the worst case scenario on the projections that many of you saw last spring when we did the whole presentation is and again I don't call it a bubble like I call it a wave or a trend is there's a year I think it's 20 21 21 22 where we need 88 classrooms so we creep up to 88 and then we begin to fall again but we don't fall at least within the 10 years of the study below 84 so worst case scenario and I'm checking with Denise because she has my numbers right there worst case scenario is there may be a couple of years where we have to do either out on the cot or we have to put another module in but by then hopefully the city's bonding has increased again the ability to bond has increased and we have some flexibility if not two years is not a bad struggle in the lifetime of a school what we're having a struggle with now if we had to do this for 10 years or 15 years we have not just a capacity problem an equity problem so the Horace man where I hope your child will go you know they do art in the auditorium on the stage and when the art is winding down the lunch ladies come in and they start pulling down tables or if it's a rainy day for Jim we've got a problem you know who goes where and things like that so that so that's one issue the mayor referenced you know that at the Horace me and the Hoover and the Winthrop we took classrooms and converted them to libraries they don't have beautiful libraries like Winthrop Lincoln and our Roosevelt we have multi-purpose rooms there's no getting around that it's a given at the Winthrop we had to add we've added a classroom a grade a grade classroom for two years at the Winthrop we added a fourth last year fifth this year they are totally out of space we took the old computer room thankfully we're now mobile again thank you and we converted that to a third grade classroom I've been through that room three times and every time I go through that room I'm saying it's a little close for the type of instruction we prefer to

▶ 1:28:55 Speaker 2: do nowadays at the Hoover two years ago mr. Schenner and I made a decision to take a former kindergarten room and cut it in half to build out space so half of the room maybe the size of that suite over there is art music and the other

▶ 1:29:16 Speaker 2: half is special ed space now at the Winthrop we took a book room we converted it to sped space at the Horace me and we took another classroom we cut it in half for sped space you have to remember when a lot of these buildings were built the programs that were now required to offer did not exist so you you had a classroom and you had kids sitting in rows six by six however many it may be and it was a very different educational model now with special education intervention ESL student centered model we are very crowded and so it was both a capacity issue and an equity issue while we can't reproduce the Lincoln and the Roosevelt we certainly want to make sure that our students at the other three elementaries have the best possible facilities we can offer them given the constraints of the buildings so that's where we're at thank

▶ 1:30:24 Jennifer L. Lemmerman: you you mentioned Horace Mann so I do have a couple of questions and comment about that of being in my my ward and it is a school that has not experienced equity for a while now as you know you know that room that you mentioned lunch in there art in there library comes in there music is done in there we vote in there I mean it's everything happens in that room so it's great to see some see these renovations that will make up for some of that space I wanted to ask and I see we have the principal there if she wouldn't mind if I could call on her a

▶ 1:31:09 Speaker 2: little bit but the change there and what is existing to the new plan it does also sort of takes the reception area and the principal's office and the nurses area and puts it all together and in a more accessible place than it is right now it's sort of set back a little bit right now but then we do lose in the corner there a fairly large kindergarten classroom that I know is a well-loved room right now and then it moves it over to another space can you talk a little bit about just the the impact on the school from your perspective on making that that change in that whole sort of quarter so that front quarter there'd be there are three big impact spaces that I see one in moving the library into that first kindergarten classroom into that permanent structure it kind of puts it in a central focal point we use our library for we wish to use our library number of things not just as a depository but it's also a site where community volunteers come in they read with children and we would like to utilize that space so that we could have it as more of an instructional space the second big impact and was a particular importance to me is to address some of the ad a regulations for that building and making that building accessible to families to children into the community so as the engineers put forth you can can see clearly that with the exception of our all-purpose room there are stairs at all our entrances although a wheelchair can come in to the all-purpose room we do have a ramp to help support that coming into the school that itself cannot be to code because it would extend into the middle of my cafeteria where we have lunch art music physical education assemblies and voting so I see the second big impact would be a more open equitable space for the community to access the building the third large impact has to do with security so if you have been up to the Hoover School in that beautiful front entrance where you have all glass you have increased camera security you have visibility for people coming in we do have camera at our back door which is our front door off our parking lot if you've been out to Horace me in and we also have a second security door but as of right now in order to get eyes on someone very well they are well into the building and that is of a huge concern as it is for the community I would imagine and finally moving the kindergarten classroom into what is now a shared music instrument lesson in library space years ago and I'm not going to quote the year because I don't know exactly it was not in my tenure nor the one before me that space actually was a kindergarten classroom it's only equipped with the smart board it's fully equipped with storage um in the square footage albeit less than the present kindergarten space is uh sufficient if you look at i'm sure that it's in your packet they did a lot of work on square footage it is it is equal if not bigger than some of the other classrooms in the building so there's a personal loss i think for the teacher that has to be recognized as someone who was in a classroom for many years you fall in love with your classroom but it is she who makes that space wonderful so wherever we put her I'm confident that that impact will be will be well thank you very much for coming and speaking to us about that great I

▶ 1:34:35 Jennifer L. Lemmerman: think those are all of my questions the Horace man one in particular you know that was sort of a later a later change in plans after really looking at everything and so wanted to make sure that we had a chance to kind of hear a little bit about that so thank you very much thank you mr. chairman Thank You

▶ 1:34:50 Peter D. Mortimer: Alderman Lemmerman. Next we have Alderman Boisselle please. Thank you for coming. The

▶ 1:34:56 Robert A. Boisselle: report looks very impressive. Lots of information which I'm going to pass back to you now. The term modular, modular construction, modular units. What's the difference between this concept? Between modular units versus modular

▶ 1:35:18 Speaker 7: construction? Yes. Well there are two. I mean what we're talking about in what we what we're proposing are custom-built purpose-built units that are built for this project in a factory and brought via truck to the site placed on a foundation that's constructed in the field and then connected to the buildings the systems are connected to the building you can get trailers that are pre-manufactured that roll up that you would more likely see you know as a construction trailer or something like that so basically so and the roofs are

▶ 1:35:58 Robert A. Boisselle: all built in the warehouse then trucked out they are so they they say the the

▶ 1:36:02 Speaker 7: modular company would tell you that it's about 90% complete when it arrives so it's like a big Lego set putting together and and and they knit them together and they are built they're built to be able to travel over roads so they're legal which means their width there's a limitation to the width which is why they are knit together which is why even a single classroom doesn't come as a single classroom it comes on multiple trucks and is put together as a

▶ 1:36:33 Robert A. Boisselle: single classroom okay I heard that I heard the time period for the lifespan of these units are 10 15 or 20 years but as you get towards according to the industry as the years progress after 15 years you're requiring a very high level maintenance and serviceability does this put a burden upon the DPW at this point to maintain these buildings because they're all self-contained I believe with air conditioning and heating units it's it's additional square footage to

▶ 1:37:07 Speaker 4: clean maintain but the way it's going to be connected into the building into the existing systems to the existing security system into the system fire alarm system some may have separate services so I mean it's additional square footage that the budget will probably increase slightly to adapt but it's the same custodian same facility staff there's no additional staff that's going to be required to take you know to take care of these additional spaces I I mean, it's just more square footage and-

▶ 1:37:40 Robert A. Boisselle: Very good. Now, you mentioned hooked up to the building. That would mean the infrastructure, the power, you're gonna have toilets in there, so the underground, and you're gonna have a concrete slab, and all connected to the building, almost like a permanent building for the next 15 to 20 years. Does this go before the planning board for a plan review of any sort? I mean, does the planning board get involved with this now? There's no trigger for that, no.

▶ 1:38:03 Speaker 2: I mean, it's all gonna fit within the zoning envelope.

▶ 1:38:06 Robert A. Boisselle: No, you're adding a, you're adding a new addition, I mean, a lot of the, well, my constituents are adding new parts to their homes and so forth, and they have to go before the planning board to get permission. Do, does the city have to go before the planning board with these plans for these new units? I don't believe it.

▶ 1:38:22 Speaker 3: Okay.

▶ 1:38:23 Speaker 8: It's required.

▶ 1:38:29 Robert A. Boisselle: Is there going to, I mean, we're talking a lifespan of probably about 20 years, we'll say maximum 20 years. Most of our schools are going on 50 and 60 years of age now. is it going is there some sort of phase-out plan that's going to be involved here after 20 years are we going to replace them or tear them down or are we thinking of what are we going to do with these after 20 years well I

▶ 1:38:57 Speaker 6: think it's gonna be more than 20 years right I would say this there's no phase out plan at this time but I think this community and I don't know if any of us will be here at that time when it's done has to start having preliminary conversations about a new bigger Winthrop school in which the city at some point would have three major elementary facilities Roosevelt Lincoln

▶ 1:39:33 Speaker 6: and the Winthrop in two smaller 12 room class 12 room classroom schools at the Hoover and at the Horace me that is down the road but ultimately that if you want a permanent long-term kind of solution after the 20 years that's where it has

▶ 1:39:53 Robert A. Boisselle: to come from okay now we mentioned because I would just say this that the

▶ 1:39:59 Speaker 6: width of school is coming towards the end of its of its life it's not there today but it's it's gonna get there as the middle school was right and as all our schools as we are I think you know we're gonna have to I don't want to get into this because I think we have enough on our plate right now but that's the

▶ 1:40:27 Robert A. Boisselle: road that the city's gonna have to go all right final aspects of this we talked about the financial aspects the design service is going to cost us about four hundred thousand dollars from what I see here in the bottom line is really six hundred seventeen thousand with the two hundred seventeen thousand dollars of worth of interest so now if we move that into the projected cost of four point one million for all the modules even taking fifty percent the total cost of these modules will be just about six million dollars close to it plus or minus depending on what we get for interest and that's will be probably the true cost of the project and one last thing I noticed the Hoover and the Horace man all had community gardens the Winthrop has a community garden and it wasn't identified it doesn't seem to be in the area of construction at this point so I just make it aware that the Winthrop does have a community garden

▶ 1:41:29 Denise Gaffey: You're absolutely aware of that and I think this project does not impact. That's correct. I just wanted to make that clear

▶ 1:41:35 Robert A. Boisselle: All right. Thank you very much. Very good. Very good job

▶ 1:41:40 Peter D. Mortimer: Thank You alderman boys. L next in queue. We have alderman Forbes, please

▶ 1:41:46 Scott M. Forbes: Thank You mr. Chairman and thank you all for being here tonight As far as the modules are concerned I Prior life as a as a lending officer I think I've built or have been involved in construction loan process about two thousand two dozen modular homes two of them actually here in Melrose in each one of those cases the modular homes are better quality than a stick-built home because depending upon where they're being shipped from they don't know the code so they have to over build on the codes that's been my experience on them she you're shaking your head so I think that you you understand what I'm talking

▶ 1:42:18 Speaker 7: about well I think the quality is very good if nothing else because they're being built indoors in a warm area with high level of quality contracts correct

▶ 1:42:28 Scott M. Forbes: I am in favor of this project the couple of questions I do have to ask is the modulars themselves like in the Hoover for example we're putting three of them there are we doing three individual modules or are we getting one building that's going to be spliced into three classrooms that's actually three

▶ 1:42:45 Speaker 7: classrooms ends up being six trucks okay arriving right because they get bolted together yeah they get spliced together and then obviously it's a conventional foundation the floors will be wood but they'll have to probably have a rat you know some sort of a slab a slab underneath them but but they get you know driven onto the site and dropped essentially and at the Hoover Inn and

▶ 1:43:08 Scott M. Forbes: the Winthrop there is going to be some type of I assume brick-and-mortar construction because you're going to connect them to the structure in the form of a hallway or a breezeway right so that's of the me that'll still be the

▶ 1:43:18 Speaker 7: responsibility of the modular contractor but it's quite possible they'll do that as a conventional connector or something actually the one at the the one at the Hoover really does just butt right up against it but you still have you know you have flashing you have flashing in the roof there's there's various pieces to that that will be can you know completely conventional that will be done and that's the whole enabling piece that happens once these things arrive on

▶ 1:43:43 Scott M. Forbes: site yeah I think it's important that it maintains the the configuration and the integrity of that building in that neighborhood and also just one last point I mean my my daughter goes to school up in New Hampshire she had a module classroom for three years we had our we had all the parent-teacher conferences in those in those buildings that was actually detached from the main building which was a concern but you know it it was one of the classrooms that most everybody wanted to go to so I'm not I I don't have concerns about the project I think it's a I think it's a it's going to end up being a good investment for the community as a whole and I know it does give us a little bit of time so we can see where the continuing enrollment numbers move forward but it does give us a window of opportunity to re-examine that down the road I thank you for all your hard work here tonight and I appreciate it thank

▶ 1:44:36 Speaker 4: you mr. chairman Thank You alderman Forbes next we have alderman Medeiros

▶ 1:44:41 Monica C. Medeiros: please thank you thank you well I have a dr. Cobbs here I just wanted to say congratulations on becoming a level one school and I know that you've been particular have expressed some of the concerns concerns about some of the problems that this particular project would address to me over the years especially about security so I'm I'm happy to see that involved I'm wondering probably to miss Gaffey especially because this project the horse man piece in particular really increases accessibility and are there any grant opportunities for us to pursue not I mean not really like this would not be a

▶ 1:45:29 Denise Gaffey: school building assistance program type of project for one thing we would have to wait we'd have to get it on a list and wait many years to do it but they wouldn't do a small component of a building like this it would have to be a major a major project so that you know so we don't really have that opportunity to tap into I'm not aware of any other grant opportunities for for handicap accessibility I'm if you're if you know of any I just like that I'd be happy to

▶ 1:46:05 Monica C. Medeiros: look into we can look into that I don't off the top of my head and then I just wanted to talk a little bit about the expectations of population growth I know back at one of the meetings over the summer mr. McLaughlin who's the co-chair of the school building committee had mentioned that this is a problem where we were going to need six to eight classrooms over the next ten years is that really still the case is that accurate so if you look closely at

▶ 1:46:31 Speaker 2: mr. Hayes drawings there's internal recapturing of space that's factored into that so that's how we came to to get some of the extra numbers by reconfiguring how we use space so again in you know Mary Ellen's building she us we're taking a classroom that was was a library and building her a real library at we've already taken two classrooms at both the Winthrop and the not the one that excuse me the Lincoln and the Roosevelt as you know we've taken their computer classrooms in their music classrooms converted those to gen ed classrooms so we've captured some rooms there one of those things that we're talking about at Hoover and we'll have to see how it plays out is the room that we actually build out two years ago we could reconvert to a regular classroom you know if we needed to so we're looking at the flexibility this gives us within each structure as well you know mr. Hayes said earlier the principals are going to have to be adaptable and they're going to have to be adaptable we're doing the best we can with the resources the city can give us and it's not a perfect situation it's not an ideal solution but it does increase capacity so it's a lot more manageable than it is quite frankly

▶ 1:48:03 Monica C. Medeiros: today so and I know you mentioned that at the peak we would need we're projected to need 88 classrooms but not go below below 84 how many do we have

▶ 1:48:23 Monica C. Medeiros: today as of today we are 82 and we're anticipating that really coming into the end next school year starting next fall so currently have a problem currently we

▶ 1:48:36 Speaker 2: have I'm doing for many years you had a 12 strand grade you had 12 fives 12 fours then you begin to creep up to a 13 now you're at a 15 we have a 15 classroom one a 15 classroom K if you have 15 next year you can see how this

▶ 1:49:01 Monica C. Medeiros: progresses over time so in terms of some of the the cost and lifespan questions I know you mentioned the 20-year life span. I would like to know in today's dollars and obviously, you know, what it would cost to remove these modulars and maybe if we could get that for our next meeting just so we can have some concept of what kind of burden we might be placing on the future generations.

▶ 1:49:33 Speaker 7: I feel like in order to ‑‑ So you're asking in 20 years what it would

▶ 1:49:36 Monica C. Medeiros: cost to take them away what would it cost today to remove these classrooms if they were done in today's dollars so if if today was the day that they useful life is is done and and we're ready to get rid of them what is what does it cost and you know at least we'll have some kind of ballpark about what that will be we can't really you know guess what the cost of money and anything will be really in 20 years as much as we can try and predict but at least we can have some concept of what it is today. Likewise to Mr. Del Russo, the numbers that you just showed to us that was just for the design bond. Could you possibly speak to what we might be looking for looking at if we were to say bond 4.4 million for the full project assuming we move forward? Yes what I did do and it's

▶ 1:50:30 Speaker 3: That's a great question.

▶ 1:50:37 Speaker 3: I also, with myself and the treasurer collective, put together a chart assuming we're using four million as a round number here.

▶ 1:50:52 Speaker 3: And again, the same dimensions, the-

▶ 1:50:54 Speaker 6: I'd just like to make the point again. Yep. The numbers that were used, the reason why we're before you tonight is to find out real, Actual numbers, the numbers that we're using today are the numbers that we have done to the best of our ability without actually going through these costs, understanding the escalation of costs right now. In the construction business, as well as the fluctuating market of modules.

▶ 1:51:19 Speaker 3: Thank you, and in the same portfolio, again, this is on the left, it's 2012 to 2042. have a 30-year model that we use with our certifying bank Peter Frazier and it does the same basic thing in essence and only one year does it even touch four percent that's 2019 all of the years it's it's under four percent that's a

▶ 1:51:44 Monica C. Medeiros: great question thank you because as we embark on this you know our plan is going to be to move forward so yeah sorry back to lifespan is there any kind

▶ 1:51:56 Speaker 7: warranty on these I don't believe that there is sort of a lifetime warranty and I think that the modular companies give the 20-year or better number as a guidance but to be honest with you I think that they will last longer than that I just don't think that anyone wants to say that because they they don't want anybody to hold them to it but there is I don't I don't believe you could ever get a warranty that was that long we might see something like a year

▶ 1:52:24 Speaker 7: usually get a year you usually get a year or on some materials a three-year warranty or maybe a five-year warranty on a product but you don't get a 20-year

▶ 1:52:34 Monica C. Medeiros: warranty typically and with the construction of these modular units would they would this meet our green building code it will happen it's not

▶ 1:52:52 Monica C. Medeiros: right I know I appreciate that and my only other question is at the Winthrop the green space does that take away parking spaces for staff there's no

▶ 1:53:05 Monica C. Medeiros: parking on that side the building no parking there so this is just making a playground which is now impervious as you know the winter playground is

▶ 1:53:15 Speaker 2: nothing but asphalt and this is actually an improvement and hopefully improvement

▶ 1:53:17 Monica C. Medeiros: with drainage too so thank you very much I I do I think this I think this solves you know some of our problems is no no we have a problem is no real easy solution is no solution without cost unfortunately you know certainly from talking to the public I don't think the will is there to to move grade levels up and move you know eighth graders to the high school or fifth graders to the to the middle school and you know this does allow us to keep the the neighborhood school system intact and I think that once we get through the

▶ 1:53:58 Monica C. Medeiros: initial construction it will be a positive thing for thank you Thank You

▶ 1:54:05 Peter D. Mortimer: Alderman Medeiros Alderman Inferno please thank you very much mr. chairman

▶ 1:54:10 Gail Infurna: I'm gonna have to start writing smaller because I think Alderman Medeiros looked at my paper thank you for all your work that you're doing on this I think it is the the best of the best plans that we could possibly go for I did have a concern with the ADA handicapped things thank you dr. Cobb for addressing that and responding to the ADA concerns of the community so but that's a great opportunity that we have here. I can't imagine, Denise, that there aren't any grants out there that we may be able to pull aside. I don't know if we could really look into that just to see if there's anything ADA is, they're changing things all the time and doing different things. So I'd appreciate if you could really look into that. And Ms. Taymor, I think you mentioned at one point the year 2022 about ADA. know what 88 classrooms would be Oh 88 I'm sorry I heard a DA and I was just like what are we waiting to eat the year 2020 2022 so thank you at that I was just like goodness also with this these modules that you have here and the plan that you have here and we're talking about the growth that we have here in Melrose if in you know 15 more years or anything is there any room on any of these lots or these school sites to put another modular if you needed it yes

▶ 1:55:51 Gail Infurna: yeah all of them so that you know if this really needed to go on or something like that and we still weren't ready to build new or whatever you could there is room to put another one on and my last question is I heard that these modular homes a flat roof as we concern ourselves with flat roofs in any building and modular just kind of strikes me that they're 20 years as opposed to a 50 year building John do you have any concerns about snow if we should have those really bad winters is there any more of a chance for the snow to collapse on that they really build them they build just like on any other right okay great thank you very much thank you again thank you alderman

▶ 1:56:42 Peter D. Mortimer: inferno alderman MacMaster my goal is please thank you mr. chairman actually

▶ 1:56:47 Mary Beth McAteer-Margolis: Alderman Medeiros was looking at my paper but that's okay we're all here to share and find out the same information design the design phase that we're in now is the four the four hundred thousand is including the modulars and the horseman and tap a Charlie is ting is going to be doing all of that right

▶ 1:57:14 Denise Gaffey: and all of the consultants to we have not in the limited feasibility study

▶ 1:57:19 Denise Gaffey: that we did under during the couple of months that we have this summer we we didn't do all the soil exploration and it has material exploration and all subsurface surveys things of that nature geotechnical surveys so consultants like that would also be built into our built into this you know and it also includes

▶ 1:57:35 Mary Beth McAteer-Margolis: project management on the owners project management going forward or just for this particular way it's going forward going forward okay and so mr. de la russa sometimes I know when we do those preliminary bonds we and then we go further with the project we end up kind of like rolling the original bond in is that a plan that you would be looking to do or no yeah I believe that we're gonna

▶ 1:57:59 Speaker 3: wait until we actually ascertain that the full cost mm-hmm so we'll do a temporary nature okay and then it's when we do finalize the figures at that point you'd probably roll them together you know do it all at once and the temporary

▶ 1:58:14 Mary Beth McAteer-Margolis: bonds usually are a little higher interest rate is that why you've got the

▶ 1:58:20 Speaker 3: five percent or no that we were shown actually it and mr. trip flavors you are to show on but we believe would be a bonded cost the temporary bonds are usually lower than that so okay but we're just trying to demonstrate that even at that level it fits into the program and going forward as Alderman

▶ 1:58:35 Mary Beth McAteer-Margolis: just to clarify Alderman Medeiros this question the additional 4.4 million is still going to bring us under the four percent total capacity it'd be into five percent it would

▶ 1:58:49 Speaker 3: be under five percent i'm just using four for illustration purposes you know i only touched it once and that was 2019 at 4.02 percent so at some point the other year was under four could

▶ 1:59:00 Mary Beth McAteer-Margolis: you get that um projection to us that you were showing us with how it was falling off and absolutely where we would be headed going forward because i think absolutely probably most of us feel if we're we're going this far unless it's you know totally prohibitive and we have to go in a different direction this is this is where we're going to be going to be headed in in that regard one thing that I haven't heard the superintendent speak to in terms of adding classrooms and capacity is class size is this going to help us in any way with reaching certain goals that the school committee may have set for class size depends on your

▶ 1:59:43 Speaker 2: enrollment doesn't it always I mean you know yep so you know if we have 15 classrooms in the enrollments at maybe 310 then maybe you run about 2021 if the enrollments at 330 you're running 2425 it all depends on the enrollment please remember that the school committee has policies that are designed to balance class sizes at that entry point for children and that's why we have inter-school choice and not neighborhood schools because we that's how we manage it you know it may vary as the kids get older and they come and go and things like that but at the K level that's where we're really trying to control class size and influence the future and you don't see the committee undertaking any reviews of those policies regarding not in the future if you wanted to go to 2020 per classroom then you better start building another building tomorrow morning because that's what you're asking we had 21 plus or

▶ 2:00:42 Mary Beth McAteer-Margolis: minus when I was on the school committee but that was some and of course when I was at the horseman I think I was the six by six desks with probably 35 kids in my class I am very happy I'm not happy to see the kindergarten class go but I am happy to see that it's going to be a library and that's I'm reading that right correct yeah if we're just flipping the two spaces yeah no it's all it is yeah and I think it's I think it's great that it's it's a beautiful room and I think it'll be nice that the whole student population can visit it on a regular basis and not just really be in it for some of them for one part you know for one for one year so I am happy to see that and I'm very pleased with with the ADA compliance and I think that's long long overdue this part so I'm very happy to see that you were diligent enough to to build this you know to build this into the project one of the questions I had and I think you touched on it briefly mr. Shana was the systems so maybe you were Charlie could speak to this the systems they'll have some self-contained but then otherwise they'll be tied into the main building so what will probably happen is for

▶ 2:01:57 Speaker 7: instance heating and cooling will just be rooftop units so those are they're gonna be their own brand new systems right there's something like plumbing it'll be brand new sinks and toilets but we got to get water to them and we got to you know so we're gonna have waste lines and probably going back to the building in water hot and cold water going back to the buildings unless we find and John did mention this that it makes more sense to bring a separate service in and we just don't know that we haven't done that exploration same goes with electrical it probably will all tie back to the primary power that comes into the existing schools however it's conceivable that that will end up with secondary power coming from somewhere else for some reason those are the kind of explorations that were not undertaken in the first phase of this

▶ 2:02:50 Mary Beth McAteer-Margolis: study so but are you confident that if need be the systems that are in place have enough capacity to handle you don't really know that's what word that's what

▶ 2:02:59 Speaker 7: I'm saying is we until we until we explore that we don't know that fully so that will be good but obviously they're going to be code compliant and adequate for the spaces and if the buildings don't have adequate service will bring

▶ 2:03:16 Mary Beth McAteer-Margolis: in separate service okay so I think that covered most of my questions that weren't answered previously and I'm happy to to thank you for your hard work on this and to support this thank you very much

▶ 2:03:28 Peter D. Mortimer: Alderman McAteer-Margolis having come to the end of our dialectical analysis is there a motion please we have a motion for passage by Alderman Lemmerman duly seconded by alderman Forbes all in favor please say aye aye any opposed hearing none this will be recommended for passage of the full board everyone thank you very much thank you one at all