ORDER-2017-165 : Proposed Revisions to City Charter for the City of Melrose as recommended by the Charter Review Committee for consideration by the Board of Aldermen

Transcript (~1 h 26 min @ 1:02:03)

Speakers identified by voice; unnamed voices are numbered within this recording. Auto-caption text — verify against the video.

▶ 1:02:11 Peter D. Mortimer: thank you very much anyways we have an order that was detained in committee

▶ 1:02:16 Peter D. Mortimer: due to a motion to adjourn the other night and so we will proceed with that it is ordered president

▶ 1:02:24 Speaker 6: khan please yeah mr chairman just before we start discussing the merits of this order could you um please just reiterate the legislative process relative to this order continuing so that Is it anybody who is interested will know what will transpire in the future?

▶ 1:02:41 Peter D. Mortimer: Yes, I would be glad to do that, sir. Rita now, we are in the midst of an order, 2017-165 concerning proposed revisions to the city charter. As required by the city charter every ten years.

▶ 1:03:01 Peter D. Mortimer: We had an ad hoc committee, the charter committee, made up of a group of Melrose citizens, concerned citizens, and knowledgeable citizens, including Alderman, all the men, Zwirko, and Tramatozzi. They attended, what was the total number of meetings, eight that you had? Five. Five, they had five meetings, and they came up with a litany of changes that they would recommend. We are now in the midst of discussing those. We're on page 31 of our agenda tonight. For anybody who wants to go to it, we're going to pick up where we left off. And we're going to continue discussing that laundry list of proposed changes from the Charter Committee. The unofficial ad hoc Charter Committee. Then, any aldermen are free to add any changes they would like to make that they see might be appropriate. And then we're going to make a motion to recommend whatever order we come up with, whatever we're able to hammer out here in the Appropriations Committee. It will likely not happen tonight, but it is possible. And then it will go to the full board where further discussion and amendments and changes and crafting of a good charter. It's a document that lasts for 10 years. So although the work may seem arduous and painstaking and sometimes a little long, like this speech I'm giving, it's worth it because it's a document that lasts for 10 years. So that's why we're taking our time with it and doing it very carefully.

▶ 1:04:53 Speaker 6: And Mr. Chairman, if I might add, the public will have the opportunity to speak at any meeting in the future where this order is discussed until there is a final vote taken on the order. So any members of the public who are watching and are interested are invited to come to our meetings and make their views known. As with all of our meetings, the public can speak on any order that is on our agenda.

▶ 1:05:18 Peter D. Mortimer: That is absolutely correct. we saw some healthy public participation tonight and any further appropriations meeting regarding this charter will of course have public participation and when it goes to the full board there'll be a further opportunity for public participation and that may not even get resolved at one meeting of the full board so there may even be yet another chance for public participation And of course, we're always open, we receive emails, we have email accounts. I know all of us answer our phones and return our phone calls. So we're definitely interested in what the public thinks and what they have to say about any order before us.

▶ 1:06:03 Peter D. Mortimer: With that, we will proceed now to this order. It is order 2017-165, proposed revisions to the city charter for the City of Melrose as recommended by the Charter Review Committee for consideration by the Board of Aldermen.

▶ 1:06:31 Peter D. Mortimer: Let me quickly switch to page 31 of tonight's agenda.

▶ 1:06:36 Peter D. Mortimer: I think that's where we left off.

▶ 1:06:46 Peter D. Mortimer: I think the last one we had was- 20. 20, requiring the signatories for addresses for citizen initiative measures and requiring the designation of a clerk for the initiative section 8-2A. And in the ad hoc charter committee, it passed 8-0, and I think we recommended it for passage at our last meeting. That's where my notes have that we left off, and it seems that by the nodding heads, I see that the aldermen here assembled concur. The next order we have before us, excuse me, the next section we have before us is section 21. adding setting of water and sewer rates to those measures ineligible for initiative or referendum procedure, section 8-411. And this passed at the ad hoc charter committee by a vote of 8 to nothing.

▶ 1:07:44 Michael P. Zwirko: Motion to accept the recommendation by the charter review commission on this.

▶ 1:07:48 Peter D. Mortimer: Second. Second. Alderman's Worker has made a motion to accept the recommendation of the charter committee on this. was seconded by Alderman Inferno on discussion. Alderman Zwerchel please.

▶ 1:07:58 Michael P. Zwirko: Thank you Mr. Chairman. Just very quickly the reason that this was inserted by the Charter Review Commission and approved unanimously is because as most of you folks know should no one in the City of Melrose even turn on the water we still owe the MWRA a bill and therefore we think that it is best to have this legislative body discuss the setting of those water and sewers rates in conjunction with not only the executive branch but also the city auditor in order to set a rate that we feel we can pay our bills for leaving this open to a public referendum obfuscates that process and that's why the decision was

▶ 1:08:34 Peter D. Mortimer: made in the Commission thank you Thank You aldermen Search alderman Medeiros

▶ 1:08:37 Monica C. Medeiros: please thank you I don't I should say I don't think that I would see this

▶ 1:08:42 Monica C. Medeiros: necessarily come before the board the the city is a ballot initiative but at same time i think it's absolutely something that should be within the rights of the public to vote on if at one point in time the water and sewer was part of the regular city of melrose budget and it could possibly be that at some point in the future somebody would want to move that back into the regular city of melrose budget and although you know we might find it unwise to do so i think that would absolutely be within the purview of the voters of Melrose to to do

▶ 1:09:24 Monica C. Medeiros: we have possible votes on the overriding proposition two and a half for instance somebody may decide that they want to put forward a ballot initiative to to change to change that and include that we don't I can't foresee the future but But I think that we shouldn't take that option away. So I would not support changes.

▶ 1:09:52 Peter D. Mortimer: Thank you very much. Alderman Medeiros. Are there any other, President Kahn, please?

▶ 1:09:58 Speaker 6: We're required to set the water and sewer rates every year. It's probably the most unpleasant thing that we do. We get all kinds of controversy and whatnot relative to it. This is a year to year vote. I support the committee amendment, we have to budget each year for our water and sewer. We can't have referendums interfering with the budget process. It's not like an override where we're voting a future appropriation to do another project. So I would support this, and I would hope that the committee would do so as well.

▶ 1:10:38 Peter D. Mortimer: Thank you, President Kahn. I've seen no further Alderman wishing to be had, to be heard. We have adding setting of water and sewer rates to those measures ineligible for initiative or referendum procedure. There's been a motion to do exactly that by Alderman's Worker, one second by Alderman Inferna. All in favor, please say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Opposed. One opposed. So that will go into the record as one that we're going to recommend for now to the full board. The next item we have before us is item number 22. Removal of the requirement that the alderman periodically review the ordinances as overly burdensome and not appropriate for the charter. Section 9.5, and this passed at the ad hoc committee by a vote of six to two.

▶ 1:11:37 Peter D. Mortimer: Motion or commentary, please.

▶ 1:11:38 Speaker 6: Commentary.

▶ 1:11:43 Speaker 6: If this suggestion were adopted, this would not mean that we could not do this. It would just mean we didn't have to do it on a set schedule. So this is not a cessation of power to do it. It's just not making it be done at a recurring time that may not be the appropriate time. We might want to review the ordinances in a year or 18 months or something like that in a shorter time. So I would move that we adopt the committee recommendation, Mr. Chairman.

▶ 1:12:11 Peter D. Mortimer: President Kahn has moved that we adopt the committee recommendation on this item. Second. Duly seconded by Alderman Forbes. On discussion, Alderman Zwirko, please.

▶ 1:12:21 Michael P. Zwirko: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Just one additional clarification. At the last meeting that we held, we actually approved this review, just went through the clerk and the city solicitor just, so where we stand at this point in time, we are up to date as most feasibly possible. So this is a good time to, and I agree with Alderman Kahn, this is a good time to agree with what the Charter Review Commission passed at this point. So I would support it.

▶ 1:12:46 Peter D. Mortimer: Thank you very much. Seeing no further, Alderman, wishing to be heard, the motion by President Kahn and seconded by Alderman Forbes to accept this item, all in favor, please say aye. Aye. Any opposed, hearing none, this item will be accepted. Recommended for acceptance by the full board. The next item we have is item 23. It is adding a school committee appointee to the charter review committee for periodic future reviews. And this passed eight to nothing. Section 9-6 of the charter. Alderman Ferner has made a motion that we accept the committee recommendation. It will be seconded by Alderman Wright. On discussion, Alderman Wright please.

▶ 1:13:32 Francis X. Wright Jr.: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. To me, this is a no-brainer. The school budget is more than half of the city budget. It just makes sense to have somebody who is regularly involved in school policy and school budget matters to be represented on the Charter Commission. It will be one member of a rather large charter commission who may bring some insight that we otherwise might not get, whether or not a school committee representative.

▶ 1:14:06 Peter D. Mortimer: Thank you, Alderman Wright. Are there any other aldermen wishing to be heard? Seeing none, the motion was made by Alderman Inferno and duly seconded by Alderman Wright. All in favor, please say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Hearing none, this item will be recommended for passage.

▶ 1:14:27 Peter D. Mortimer: to the full board the next item we have before us is item 24 this is continuing to have no provision for the recall of elected officials a yes vote equals no provision in the charter for a recall and this item passed eight to nothing at the ad hoc charter committee

▶ 1:14:47 Michael P. Zwirko: alderman's work hopefully just like um it's all discussed but i just want to make a motion to recommend uh this item as approved by the charter review commission second alderman's work always

▶ 1:14:56 Peter D. Mortimer: made a motion to accept the recommendation of the ad hoc charter committee duly seconded by alderman

▶ 1:15:04 Michael P. Zwirko: forbes and just very quickly on this one so this came up um there was some public feedback that we the charter review commission received during the series of meetings that we held so there is no provision currently in the charter and the proposition that was raised by the public to the charter review commission was to insert some sort of a recall petition there's a lot of discussion on what that would look like ultimately the committee felt that a recall petition need not occur in the charter so just as background purposes thank you very much alderman's

▶ 1:15:34 Peter D. Mortimer: werco seeing no further alderman wishing to be heard all in favor of accepting the ad hoc committee recommendation please say aye aye any opposed hearing none that will be recommended to the full board as well the next item we have item 25 it is removal of the mayor as the seventh member of the school committee section 4-1a in the charter this failed at the ad hoc charter committee unanimously by a vote of zero to eight alderman Medeiros police thank you uh first on

▶ 1:16:08 Monica C. Medeiros: discussion I think this is actually probably the most significant vote that is contained in this Charter review in its entirety and the and I would propose actually removing the mayor from the school committee this this city has

▶ 1:16:36 Monica C. Medeiros: had a charter since 1900 until 2005 that included no mayor on the school

▶ 1:16:47 Monica C. Medeiros: committee it it operated very well without it with nine members all elected at once for two-year terms and we changed this you know 12 years ago give take by ballot initiative in 2005 since that time I can't say that the schools

▶ 1:17:16 Monica C. Medeiros: have operated I don't think that it's been an overall positive impact on the schools and I know that there's been discussion saying that most cities have a mayor on the school committee I did speak about this in the Charter Review committee my comments are included I think it's something that I heard as I listen to other comments and I read through some of the commentary I think it's one of the most common things that I have heard brought up and as I speak to members of the public when we look at cities many of them have the mayor on the school committee but when we look at we looked at say the Department of uh elementary and secondary education and we look at the state in rankings of different schools and their outcomes it's it's almost all towns before you get to any cities in terms of

▶ 1:18:10 Monica C. Medeiros: the ones that are the highest performing and those towns do not have a mayor and therefore don't have a mayor on the school committee i believe not having the mayor on the school committee allows

▶ 1:18:28 Monica C. Medeiros: allows issues and things that might be before in the shorter term as well but and but in particular allows issues to come up and bubble up through the system through their natural process and have a better airing so that the schools can

▶ 1:18:44 Monica C. Medeiros: function more efficiently and address their problems in a more free-flowing manner and I think not looking at you know this is not at all meant to to be specific to the individual who is our mayor but in terms of the position of mayor that you know that that role in this city government is very strong we have a very strong mayor we have in terms of the government structure and we have many opportunities we you know we have the whole city budget come before us but we have many opportunities to have the mayor give us input and be involved and to express his direction and I don't think that that would be hindered by not having the mayor on the school committee so I would move actually to remove the mayor on the school committee alderman Medeiros has

▶ 1:19:44 Peter D. Mortimer: made a motion that we include in the Charter or remove from the Charter or amend the Charter to the to effectuate the change that would require that the mayor would not be a part of the school committee and I have some language that

▶ 1:20:03 Peter D. Mortimer: may I just interrupt you for a moment and then you can continue to have the floor if your motion gets a second we need to determine that so if you need

▶ 1:20:16 Peter D. Mortimer: language for the motion yeah okay yeah do you want to use specific language for your own motion go ahead so I don't have to paraphrase it go ahead make your own

▶ 1:20:24 Monica C. Medeiros: motion please to change article for school committee section 4-1 a to read a composite composition there shall be a school committee which shall consist of seven members each of whom shall be nominated and elected from the voters of

▶ 1:20:47 Peter D. Mortimer: the city at large all right thank you that that's good language do you have that madam clerk of committees and you can you can give it to her later and electronically as well and essentially it means the mayor would not be on the school committee is there a second to that motion second the motion okay so we We have, from Alderman Forbes, a second to the motion that would remove the mayor from the school committee.

▶ 1:21:15 Peter D. Mortimer: So the second has been made, but I do have already in queue, I think I have you in queue, Alderman Inferna. All right, okay, so, and then you're next, Alderman Forbes, and then you, Alderman McAteer-Margolis. Did I see you too, Alderman Zwerchel? Okay, please proceed, Alderman Inferna, on discussion. unless you want to say more you still do have the floor uh i i'll yield the floor very good

▶ 1:21:40 Peter D. Mortimer: okay alderman Medeiros says yielded the floor to alderman inferno please proceed alderman inferno

▶ 1:21:47 Gail Infurna: thank you very much um while i do support a mayor being on the school committee um and pending on what the outcome of this particular motion that's on the floor right now um i have an amendment to make pending the outcome of this so i'd like to be recognized after the vote of um this um this motion um all right just to throw it in there yeah um okay it's just not the time to

▶ 1:22:20 Gail Infurna: make the amendment yet until we know what this motion is that you know to see how this motion

▶ 1:22:28 Speaker 6: gov that's correct very good thank you i think organically as the discussion goes forward that other aldermen may have opportunities to make other motions right um yeah this this is an open

▶ 1:22:42 Gail Infurna: motion at this point um okay well i support i'll just say i i do support it i think um a mayor on the um school committee certainly can give them um the insight um of some important information i i think he's i i just think it's really an important um person on there it um he he is the mayor he is in charge of this you know of the of the big budget and to have his his insight I think it's very important to them what I would like to say that if we keep the mayor on the school committee which I do support I would like to make an amendment to it to say that the mayor should not ever be

▶ 1:23:31 Peter D. Mortimer: chairman of the school committee all right so we'll we'll discuss this motion

▶ 1:23:35 Gail Infurna: it's there oh i just was reading it and the powers are there because i was reading it because

▶ 1:23:42 Gail Infurna: okay yeah that's okay i must be reading with my eyes closed or one eye oh they only have one okay then we'll erase that and i'm sorry because i do support the all right we'll uh discuss the

▶ 1:23:49 Peter D. Mortimer: instant motion the motion on the floor uh before us and proceeding with discussion we have next in

▶ 1:23:59 Scott M. Forbes: queue alderman forbes please thank you mr chairman um i guess i'm gonna approach this at somewhat of a different angle i i i do support uh the order that was presented by alderman medeiros perception is everything and if you have the mayor as a member of the school committee and you have vote after vote after vote going unanimous there is a perception that maybe that there is a driving force that maybe not one member of the school committee would feel like that they wanted to cast that one no vote now that may not happen but it

▶ 1:24:35 Scott M. Forbes: may happen for me I would look at the school committee being a a group of elected officials by the city of Melrose the mayor can come over to any meeting and provide as much input as he needed as he needs he doesn't need to be a member of the committee in order to do that if there's any question if there's any model that needs to be addressed or pushed or described in more detail the mayor has the opportunity to sit on any one of these meetings and invoice his decision and voice his opinion and i think that that feedback is critical in order for the school committee to actually make a valid decision now does he have to be a voting member on that committee in order to do that i don't think so and it gives an opportunity for somebody else from the city of meadows to be elected into that chair and to cast that vote i mean that's what this committee should be for so if there is that one person that's thinking about saying no and because he's sitting across from the mayor then i agree with what mr lillo said tonight and i really wasn't thinking about it that way but now that i've sat there and kind of analyzed things i i do agree with uh the motion set by Alderman Barris, and duly seconded by myself.

▶ 1:25:43 Peter D. Mortimer: Thank you. Thank you, Alderman Forbes. Alderman McAteer-Margolis, please.

▶ 1:25:49 Mary Beth McAteer-Margolis: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. When the charter was first revised 12 years ago, I was not in support of this. Having just served four terms on the school committee, I really did not think it was a good idea. However, as I have come to this role as an older person, as I have watched the school committee function I have come to the conclusion that I think it is a good idea to have the mayor on there and maybe there are some other options to consider but I think more so than the mayor I mean I think it's important yes for the mayor to offer his input but I think it's more important for the mayor to listen and for the mayor to understand what is going on in the school committee and with the schools in a very hands-on way those are meetings that are generally frequently attended by the public the public frequently has a lot to say at those meetings and I think it's important that the mayor hear that directly and I also think that yes the mayor could certainly come in and sit in on a meeting but if you are not an integral part of a committee and you just come for a particular portion of a conversation or a discussion I think you can easily the the big picture can easily escape you I think the big picture is something that that the executive office should be aware of particularly in terms of crafting the budget I think the more the mayor hears of the goings-on in the schools and the more the mayor hears from the public the better he can he or she can weigh the decisions that need to be made in terms of the overall city budget I also think you know it maybe we should consider if we really feel that there should be an opportunity for another representative of the people to run and have a vote maybe we should put seven voting members on and make the mayor and on voting member but make the mayor obligated to go I I do not think that the mayor should be allowed to designate someone to go on his behalf I think that defeats the purpose of having the mayor be present so I would support the mayor being on but I would I would entertain and think of if somebody had a another thought and was really strongly in favor of having seven representatives and the mayor not be a voting member I would consider that and I also think some of the things that the public said tonight you know we're a little kind of both sides of that issue you know one one side was Joan and nobody has to stand up for me I can speak my piece but the other side was oh if some so-and-so was sitting there I might be intimidated not say what I feel I mean you can't have it both ways you need to be able to say if you're gonna stand up for yourself and say what you feel and you disagree with the executive branch I think we have strong enough elected officials that that they can do that so at the moment I am I do support the mayor being on there but I would consider an amendment should

▶ 1:29:13 Peter D. Mortimer: alderman inferno still have one to thank you thank you very much alderman

▶ 1:29:18 Francis X. Wright Jr.: MacMaster my goal is alderman Rita please Thank You mr. chairman I guess in a lot of ways I would echo alderman MacMaster my goals is comments I don't think we give the school committee members enough credit if we imply that they'll someway be intimidated by sitting on a committee with the mayor there were members of this board who've sat on the school committee and I don't think those individuals were intimidated by the presence of the mayor in more recent history we've had plenty of votes by the school committee that were not unanimous we've had members who have been willing to vote know when the mayor's voted yes or vice versa I think the mayor brings a unique perspective to the school committee as the chief executive of this city who runs the city on a day-to-day basis which you know the school committee of individuals who meet a couple of times a month who have other jobs and I think the mayor brings that perspective to the school committee so while I understand where other people are coming from I haven't seen any harm done by the mayor I think it's been positive and I support keeping the mayor on this on the school committee Thank

▶ 1:30:47 Speaker 6: You alderman Rita president Khan please I would agree to the to the initial opener that Alderman Medeiros made about this being an important issue and what I'd like to say here is that I don't know let me let me circle back for a

▶ 1:31:07 Speaker 6: minute most of the issues that we've been discussing today and in our prior meeting they're important issues but they're not fundamental to the structure of the city government i think that if we make a change to the composition of the school committee it's making a fundamental change and when we started out this whole process uh you know months ago when we were designating people to be on the committee and whatnot the way i looked at this is there are issues to a certain level which i'm comfortable with the board of alderman making and seeking a home rule approval from the general court I think if we were to change the composition of the school committee then that would be something that I would think that we should send to the voters by a referendum so for that reason I would not support us making this change and sending this along to the legislature I it's a it's an issue that's worthy of discussion but But I think that if there was sentiment to make this change, it should be done via the ballot.

▶ 1:32:22 Peter D. Mortimer: Thank you, President Kahn. Any other aldermen wishing to be heard for the first time? Seeing none, Alderman Medeiros, please.

▶ 1:32:29 Monica C. Medeiros: Thank you. I very much do agree with President Kahn's sentiment that this is the type of change that should go to the ballot. however I know there was some discussion some opening at the last meeting that most of these changes might be just simple enough for us to do them I really do think that if we're going to make I know I've made comments in the past that any change to the Charter is the change like a change to our Constitution of the city and they're pretty significant so I mean this this proposal to keep it the same I guess was on the list of what we expected to see but I don't think there's anything that prohibits us from moving our proposed changes along to the ballot and in fact you know if we were ever going to make a change this is the time to do it this is you know the called for review of the Charter and you know I don't think there's anything that prohibits us from moving this along to

▶ 1:33:40 Monica C. Medeiros: ballot should we come up with a a unified decision about what we want to do but i i think that there's nothing that prohibits us in fact at the end of this process instead of moving it directly to the to the great general court we could move it right along to the ballot and then depending

▶ 1:33:57 Peter D. Mortimer: on the outcome there move it to the great general court thank you thank you alderman medeiros anyone else for the first time seeing none alderman inferno please thank you i just wanted

▶ 1:34:03 Gail Infurna: to clarify my little amendment that i was trying to just to do about prohibiting the mayor from being chairman of the school committee uh it is written here kind of you know not so clearly but on section 4-2 the school committee shall organize by electing one of the persons elected to the office of school committee member to the serve to serve as school committee chair and i apparently aware the mayor is not the elected one so that was the key word and i was looking for the word mayor so i just wanted to clarify that i was reading and thought i had it but so elected was the key word

▶ 1:34:43 Peter D. Mortimer: thank you very good thank you alderman inferna are there any other alderman wishing to be heard on this motion the motion is to remove the mayor from the school committee essentially Made by Alderman Medeiros and duly seconded by Alderman Forbes. All in favor, please say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Opposed. The vote fails nine to two. And the item is now before us.

▶ 1:35:14 Gail Infurna: Motion to recommend.

▶ 1:35:16 Peter D. Mortimer: Alderman Inferno has made a motion to recommend the ad hoc committee's recommendation. Second. Seconded by Alderman Zwirko. Mr. Chairman, can I make a point of order, please? You may, sir.

▶ 1:35:30 Speaker 6: Is it necessary for us to vote on things that are not proposed changes?

▶ 1:35:40 Gail Infurna: Actually, a motion to recommend would do that.

▶ 1:35:48 Speaker 6: I just think, it's your meeting, Mr. Chairman, but I would suggest that what we might want to do is recommend the things that we're in favor of.

▶ 1:35:57 Peter D. Mortimer: All right, that certainly works. I just wanted to include it because it was on the list, but just for, I was thinking yeah, why don't we do it just for clarity? And then our clerk of committees will have it that item 25, all the men in front has made a motion that we-

▶ 1:36:16 Gail Infurna: No, I'm going to withdraw my motion. I'll withdraw my second. And I will make a motion to not to pass.

▶ 1:36:26 Speaker 2: Yeah, we did that on the last one.

▶ 1:36:29 Mary Beth McAteer-Margolis: Point of order on number 13, Which was recommended to fail, which was recommended as failing from the commission. Yes. We did make a motion on that one, ought not to pass. From my records, maybe the clerk can clear that up for us. All right.

▶ 1:36:48 Speaker 3: We have a number of them.

▶ 1:36:49 Speaker 2: We have a couple of them, yes.

▶ 1:36:50 Peter D. Mortimer: We'll take this item. Very good then. As Alderman Aferna has made a motion that item 25 ought not to pass, a recommendation that it ought not to pass, duly seconded by Alderman Zwirko. Yes. On discussion? Seeing none, all in favor please say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Opposed. And the same vote as before, 9-2, so the recommendation that the mayor would stay on the school committee. The next item we have in the section, delineated specific changes, is item 26.

▶ 1:37:29 Peter D. Mortimer: go ahead Alderman Zwirko if you'd like to this is a we're working committee so please I just

▶ 1:37:34 Michael P. Zwirko: wanted to make a motion to suspend the rules we hadn't didn't do so earlier when we started deliberating this order and we do have a member of the Charter Review Commission with us as well as the city solicitor so if we were to suspend the rules if there was questions that the board would like to proffer to them for their interpretation or guidance I just we haven't

▶ 1:37:51 Peter D. Mortimer: made that motion so I wanted to do so all right we have a motion to suspend the rules by Alderman Duly seconded by Alderman McAteer-Margolis. All in favor, please say aye. Aye. Opposed, hearing none. So the rules are under suspension of this order, and if the need arises, we have our city solicitor, Robert Van Campen, and a member of the ad hoc charter committee, Kristen Thorpe, in the gallery. So we'll be able to streamline them right to the table without further motions if we need you. Thank you for standing by.

▶ 1:38:22 Speaker 6: I thought you guys were just interested spectators.

▶ 1:38:29 Speaker 3: I just wanted to observe, Mr. Chairman. Too late. Thank you very much, sir.

▶ 1:38:37 Peter D. Mortimer: Proceeding then with item number 26, 1-7, definitions, adding to the definition of local newspaper the following. So, to the extent no general circulation paper exists within Melrose, local newspapers shall also include online publications, end quote. And this passed in the ad hoc committee unanimously by a vote of eight to zero. Alderman's worker was making a motion that we accept the recommendation of the ad hoc committee. Second. Wait a second, he's not making that motion. I'm not making that motion. Okay, he's not making that motion. I thought I saw a hand, but-

▶ 1:39:18 Michael P. Zwirko: No, I do have a hand because- on discussion then correct thank you and after the meeting that we held on July 24th I received an email from the clerk of committees Amy Camosa specific to this definition change and I just wanted to raise that now and may even actually need the assistance of the city solicitor on this item just very briefly to back up so the the worry was during the Charter Review Commission was that because this isn't a review that occurs every 10 years given where things are going especially in media there may not be a physical newspaper available 10 years from now and I know we discussed this a little bit already so anyway so in my communication with the clerk of committee she had recommended that we modify the definition in one seven where it reads local newspaper we actually make it a quote-unquote local news publication a news publication of general comma regular circulation within Melrose she also at further added that we changed references to news publication instead of newspaper making it a little bit more broad to encompass other types of outlets in which a news or media source may exist in the future state so I just wanted to throw that out there so that would be a motion to amend correct all right alderman's work oh has

▶ 1:40:36 Peter D. Mortimer: has made a motion to amend item 26 in conformity with the language he just delineated. Said motion was duly seconded by Alderman Medeiros. Since a lot of the intelligence for this idea came from you, I'm sure you have the language written down, so you have that, so that's good. So that point of procedure is addressed. And on discussion, we have Alderman Medeiros, please. Thank you.

▶ 1:41:08 Monica C. Medeiros: I would like to ask for the—I think this in general makes sense, and we don't know what the future news publications will be that are of general circulation. However, I know that sometimes there are certain state regulations and laws that require certain things to be actually published in the local newspaper of record that we may have to abide by. so I'm wondering if the city solicitor or perhaps some of the I know we have a lot of legal intelligence in this room who might be able to weigh in thank you

▶ 1:41:45 Peter D. Mortimer: very much Alderman Medeiros mr. chairman the only thing I would suggest with

▶ 1:41:47 Speaker 7: respect to the language and I don't have the current amendment in front of me I have the old language here the only thing I would suggest is if you're going to characterize it as an online publication or I'm not sure can you read

▶ 1:42:02 Michael P. Zwirko: it to me Alderman Search sure so it reads it's really changing just instead of local newspaper it's local news publication but the definition as recommended by the Charter Review Committee says to the extent no general circulation paper exists within Melrose local newspaper that will be changed shall also include online publications okay so what I would suggest is adding

▶ 1:42:20 Speaker 7: at the end of that that phrase after the word publications to the extent permitted by law period and that should encompass Alderman Medeiros concern about statutory requirements to post in newspapers versus online and would you

▶ 1:42:39 Monica C. Medeiros: read this to mean that you know right now we I would say between the Melrose Free Press and the Melrose Weekly News we do have newspapers of record would passing this mean that all of a sudden now next well I mean assuming this whole charter change in whole past that immediately our city clerk would no longer publish things in the newspaper or would that only be if for instance

▶ 1:43:15 Speaker 7: the newspapers went out of business my understanding from this and I don't want to get into the intent of the Charter Committee that Alderman's workbook can to that i miss thought but in the event no general newspaper no general circulation newspaper exists then you would default to an online publication is that correct that is that is correct

▶ 1:43:36 Peter D. Mortimer: thank you thank you very good and um that language is clear that language is clear to our clerk i'd

▶ 1:43:42 Michael P. Zwirko: like to amend my motion to accept the suggestions from the city solicitor well first first we have

▶ 1:43:45 Peter D. Mortimer: to withdraw okay your other motion to amend and you have to withdraw your second done copacetic

▶ 1:43:55 Michael P. Zwirko: okay withdrawing so that's done now i'd like to make a motion to amend number 26 that we're voting on here to add to the definition of local news publication changing that throughout with uh the the addition at the end of the phrase ending publications to the extent none such ex i'm sorry permitted by law as such permitted by law correct second so alderman's worker has

▶ 1:44:16 Peter D. Mortimer: made the motion to amend duly seconded by alderman Medeiros on discussion seeing none all in favor of the motion to amend this item aye aye aye any opposed hearing none the item as amended is now before you motion for passage we have a motion for passage from From Alderman McAteer-Margolis, a motion to recommend, actually duly seconded by Alderman Zwirko. Seeing no further discussion, all in favor please say aye. Aye. Item 26 will be recommended to the full board for passage. Presumptively, presumptively, but still this is a working order, so. Item 27, section 1-7 of the charter, definitions, adding, quote, the city of Melrose website, quote, to the definition of city bulletin boards. And this passed eight to zero at the ad hoc charter committee.

▶ 1:45:23 Speaker 3: Motion to recommend. And it is before us.

▶ 1:45:26 Peter D. Mortimer: Second. Who made it? Alderman Inferno has made a motion that we accept the ad hoc charter committee recommendation, duly second by President Kahn. All in favor, please say aye. Aye. This will be recommended to the full board for passage. Item 28, section 2-7 of the charter, access to information. Adding the following sentence, colon, quote, not withstanding all notices directed to employees of the school department, shall be directed to the school committee chair, quote, end quote. Amended to read, quote, copies of all notices directed to employees of the school department be concurrently provided to the school committee chair end quote and this passed eight to zero at the ad hoc charter committee alderman McNaught margolis please um thank you mr chairman i

▶ 1:46:32 Mary Beth McAteer-Margolis: believe we had some communication from a member of the public um earlier today that um who who has also served on the school committee although she was speaking as a member of the public and i believe she she was recommending that we add um to that and the executive secretary of the school

▶ 1:46:56 Mary Beth McAteer-Margolis: committee who is the superintendent so in that case i would like to amend this to add that

▶ 1:47:01 Peter D. Mortimer: language second alderman mcintyre margolis has made a motion to amend item 28 um and that motion to amend was duly seconded by alderman inferno on discussion of the motion to amend seeing none all in favor please say aye aye aye any opposed uh the item as amended is before you

▶ 1:47:29 Peter D. Mortimer: motion to recommend as amended parliament inferno has made a motion to recommend for passage as amended duly seconded by alderman McNaught margolis on discussion seeing none all in favor please say Aye. Aye. Opposed? This item will be recommended, item 28 will be recommended to the full board for passage. The next item is item 29, section 3-3 of the charter. Appointments by the mayor, removal of the following language as redundant. Begin quote, accepting only persons serving under the school committee and persons serving under the board of aldermen, end quote. It is passed eight to zero at the ad hoc charter committee.

▶ 1:48:17 Peter D. Mortimer: Is there a motion on discussion, please?

▶ 1:48:19 Michael P. Zwirko: Motion to recommend as approved by the charter review commission.

▶ 1:48:22 Peter D. Mortimer: Alderman Zwirko has made a motion to accept the recommendation of the charter committee. Duly seconded by? Second. Alderman Tramontozzi on discussion?

▶ 1:48:35 Peter D. Mortimer: Seeing none, all in favor please say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Hearing none, this item number 29 will be recommended to the full board for passage. The next item is item 30, 3-10B. President of Alderman to serve as mayor. Removal of the language regarding mayor's outside income as redundant. And confirming that a president of the Board of Aldermen may use the language, candidate for re-election, end quote, on the ballot if such president is seeking re-election as alderman and not as mayor. And this passed eight to zero in the ad hoc charter committee.

▶ 1:49:27 Peter D. Mortimer: Motion or comment? People, wake up. Motion to recommend. Second. President Kahn has made a motion to recommend this order for passage. Is there a second? Second. Alderman Forbes has made a second on item 30. On discussion, Alderman McAteer-Margolis.

▶ 1:49:46 Mary Beth McAteer-Margolis: I have a request for information just to ask that you or the clerk refresh our memory regarding the vote that we took about the removal of the ban against the mayor receiving outside compensation. I believe we held that. We held it. So I don't know if we should, in fact, be removing that part of the language as redundant if we have not voted on the previous section 3-1A.

▶ 1:50:20 Mary Beth McAteer-Margolis: All right. But someone can certainly refresh my memory if I'm wrong or correct me if my procedural information is incorrect.

▶ 1:50:28 Peter D. Mortimer: Thank you for your point of information. It is before us. Alderman Zwirko, please.

▶ 1:50:32 Michael P. Zwirko: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. it's a good it's a good point of information by Alderman McAteer-Margolis these things sometimes when you get to positions further along in the Charter you have to make sure that they're in concordance with previous recommendations from the Charter Review Commission certainly if a president of the Board of Aldermen was thrown into the role of mayor we would not we the Royal we would not want to impose any income restrictions because it wasn't done so via an election and that decision was something that was thrust upon him or her in their role and duties of power laid out in becoming an acting mayor so we would certainly not want to hinder that um and the provision because we voted to retain uh maybe we didn't um the provision on outside income uh that's something that could be handled um you know

▶ 1:51:22 Peter D. Mortimer: through an election thank you alderman Zwirko motion to hold this order pending our determination

▶ 1:51:28 Peter D. Mortimer: of the prior item mr chairman second uh very good so you to president khan and alderman forbes are the two who made and seconded the other motion uh by virtue of the making of this new motion and the second of this new motion uh i am going to presume that you are withdrawing your previous motion in your previous second and everybody has heard the motion to hold this uh order for further of the discussion pending the outcome of the previous question just iterated by our clerk of committees. All in favor, please say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Hearing none, item 30 will be held presently. The next item we have is item 31, section 4-1 of the present charter school committee, changing the title of article four from school department to committee. And changing the titles of section 4-1 and 4-1A to be consistent therewith. And this passed in the ad hoc charter committee unanimously by a vote of eight to zero. Motion to recommend. All right, I'll accept that. Alderman Zwirko did have his hand up, but I'll accept your motion to recommend. Alderman Zwirko? Second. seconded the motion on discussion this just appeared to be a Scrivener's error

▶ 1:52:53 Michael P. Zwirko: simply put school department versus committee this is a section dedicated to the composition and the terms of office and the powers therewith so very good

▶ 1:53:04 Peter D. Mortimer: thank you for that information I've seen no further discussion all in favor any opposed hearing none this item will be recommended to the full board for

▶ 1:53:22 Peter D. Mortimer: passage the next item we have is item 32 it is section 4-2 of the Charter 4-2 B powers and duties of the school committee chair adding the words quote or designee unquote and this passed by a vote of 8 to 0 at the ad hoc Charter

▶ 1:53:42 Peter D. Mortimer: Committee motion our discussion please Alderman McAteer-Margolis I saw you

▶ 1:53:51 Mary Beth McAteer-Margolis: Discussion, I would like to have more information about what designee means. My recollection is that if the absence of a chair, a committee would elect a president or chair pro tem. So I don't know if that's what this means or if it means that the chair can say I'm not going to make the meeting, I want Monica to chair.

▶ 1:54:12 Peter D. Mortimer: Very good, thank you for your point of order. And I think at this point there's no motion on the floor at this time, and that's fine because we are in committee. And next in queue we have President Kahn. Yeah, I'll pass. And President Kahn has yielded the floor. Alderman Tramontozzi, please. We are in suspension of rules. Maybe we can hear from Ms. Thorpe, because she did have some input at the child review committee about this.

▶ 1:54:45 John N. Tramontozzi: yes please in your experience what was the rationale we just talked about

▶ 1:54:51 Speaker 2: adding or designee because the the sentence says that the school committee chair will preside at all meetings of the school committee and sometimes it is a subcommittee chair President or sometimes it is the vice chair we just said or designee because it can't always be the chair that's all it was pretty

▶ 1:55:16 Peter D. Mortimer: simple would would excuse me for stepping out of my role as chair for one second would it be said designee must be a member of the school committee would

▶ 1:55:25 Speaker 2: that be helpful but I don't think anybody would ever have somebody else but if you need to do that that's fine I'm just telling you what we what we

▶ 1:55:34 Peter D. Mortimer: talked about I know I'll figuratively step out and let the the horseshoe take

▶ 1:55:43 Monica C. Medeiros: care of this alderman Medeiros please back if you know if this were for the

▶ 1:55:50 Monica C. Medeiros: Board of Aldermen we might say per the rules of the Board of Aldermen which is

▶ 1:55:54 Speaker 2: fine we have bylaws we have a policy we we certainly have rules so I might

▶ 1:56:04 Monica C. Medeiros: suggest adding per the as an amendment to this per the in accordance with the

▶ 1:56:11 Monica C. Medeiros: rules of order the importance with the bylaws of the school committee oh they

▶ 1:56:14 Speaker 3: are bylaws rather than rules okay is it bylaws or rules

▶ 1:56:22 Peter D. Mortimer: second all right alderman Medeiros has made a motion to amend adding the the language in accordance with the bylaws and policies of the school committee. Said motion to amend by Alderman Medeiros was duly seconded by President Kahn. On discussion of the motion to make said amendment, seeing none, all in favor please say aye. Aye. Any opposed? The item as amended is before us now.

▶ 1:56:52 Speaker 2: Motion to recommend.

▶ 1:56:53 Peter D. Mortimer: Alderman McAteer-Margolis has made a motion to recommend. Second. The item as amended. Duly seconded by Alderman Boycelle. Seeing no further discussion on the motion to recommend the item as amended, all in favor please say aye. Aye. Any opposed, hearing none, the item as amended will be recommended to the full board for passage. The next item we have before us is item number 33, section 4-5 of the charter school committee powers and duties. removal of language as superfluous because school committee's powers and duties are set for by state statute. This failed by a vote of one in favor, six opposed, and one abstaining.

▶ 1:57:46 Peter D. Mortimer: The item is before you, ladies and gentlemen.

▶ 1:57:52 Peter D. Mortimer: Alderman Zurich, all police.

▶ 1:57:53 Michael P. Zwirko: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. When the Charter Review Commission reviewed this item, and it did fail, I want to say that it failed. I say this to myself, I don't want to speak for the members of the committee, more so not because of the merits of it, more so because of the concern that it was specific in this charter that these powers were outlined, but I also want to direct to the comments that we received today from Margaret Driscoll member of the public and she asks to remove this language due to the powers are expressly of the school committees in the Commonwealth Massachusetts are part of the general laws so the committee was hesitant to remove because they thought that there was a purpose at the time of this being drafted for these powers to be outlined but if you look at our administrative code that outlines the powers and duties of like the city auditor and they're very detailed and this was an interesting discussion this was something that actually took a little bit of time but ultimately it did fail to pass and i would like to say it wasn't because of the merits looking at this and seeing the comments that were made from the public as well as you know members of the school committee i'm inclined to support the removal of the language as superfluous so i would i would i would support that but i'm not going to make a motion at this time i know other people have to chime in so that's all i wanted to say thank you all right but

▶ 1:59:22 Peter D. Mortimer: but it's your viewpoint that we should go contrary to the charter committee and and remove this language at this point that is correct all right but no motion yet correct thank you very much alderman's worker president khan please yeah um respectfully and i think we're trying to get to

▶ 1:59:37 Speaker 6: the same outcome here i don't think we should vote this tonight i think we should place this on hold i don't think we're going to finish our overall discussion of the post charter review and um since i'm kind of in the same business as uh mr van kampen when you come to a meeting and you get questions that you haven't been asked before thrown at you it's called shagging five balls and what i would like to do is give him an opportunity to have time to make an informed opinion relative to this issue so i think we should hold this and get legal confirmation from

▶ 2:00:17 Peter D. Mortimer: mr van campen second the motion of holding committee very good uh thank you i think uh alderman MacMaster my goal is beat you by an instant alderman forbes to second president khan's motion uh saying that we retain this item number 33 in committee pending further review by our city solicitor and perhaps in conference with other members of the charter review committee mr solicitor you look like bill belichick back there you you're going behind the paper all the time with the headset the uh very good all right so uh all in favor of that motion please say aye aye any opposed Those hearing none, this item will be held in committee. The next item we have before us is item 34. Section 6.2, annual budget policy, removal of the last sentence. Quote, begin quote, the superintendent of schools shall be present at this meeting, end quote. this item passed seven to one at the ad hoc charter committee motion or

▶ 2:01:32 Peter D. Mortimer: discussion did I see you Alderman Medeiros yes I'll let Alderman Medeiros is yielding to Alderman Tramontozzi yeah I think if my memory serves correctly at

▶ 2:01:46 John N. Tramontozzi: the at our committee a charter review committee this discussion was came up not that the superintendent would not be called before us to review the budget of schools that will that this is just the that joint meeting that the mayor calls where he just presents his budget and it just there was comments about whether the superintendent needed to be there at all because the superintendent doesn't say anything or has no input I think at that time it's not a review of the budget it's just the mayor making his opening at the joint meeting between Board of Aldermen and school committee I think that's what that this was this

▶ 2:02:29 Peter D. Mortimer: addresses Thank You Alderman Tramatozzi Alderman Medeiros please thank you I do

▶ 2:02:32 Monica C. Medeiros: recall being a spectator for some of this discussion during that that meeting I believe and I actually would support keeping the language I know there was

▶ 2:02:54 Monica C. Medeiros: some discussion about whether or not you know the Board of Aldermen or the mayor had any right to compel the superintendent to to come to the meeting or not come to the meeting and of course really we don't exactly and they don't

▶ 2:03:07 Monica C. Medeiros: and so this was the the language to keep it there because this was sort of an important meeting both both literally and I guess and figuratively to have the head of the the acting executive secretary of the public schools there at this meeting and so I think it is important to have that presence there and there's if we take it away there is no requirement that that the superintendent be there but I think it is important for the superintendent to

▶ 2:03:42 Peter D. Mortimer: be there thank you thank you very much alderman Medeiros alderman MacMaster

▶ 2:03:47 Mary Beth McAteer-Margolis: Margolis yeah I would tend to agree with alderman Medeiros and I just wonder if maybe I appreciate all of internment Ozzie's comments if almonds Marco has

▶ 2:04:00 Mary Beth McAteer-Margolis: any recollection of why it was removed I mean it does say it's the mayor caused this meeting before the commencement of the budget profit process to review the financial condition of the city revenue and expenditure forecasts and other relevant information so I mean why wouldn't the superintendent need to be

▶ 2:04:23 Mary Beth McAteer-Margolis: there or want to be there that's my question through the chair to Alderman

▶ 2:04:26 Peter D. Mortimer: Zuerka very good Thank You Wildman MacMaster I'll just add that Alderman

▶ 2:04:28 Michael P. Zwirko: Tramontozzi is correct I guess any any caveat I would say was just because it's absolute in the sense that the superintendent shall be there I mean a superintendent could get into a car accident for I mean you could I know I understand that but I'm just the reason was it was so absolute and because it's really a budget hearing of which you know essentially an overview and a speeches given outlining budgetary processes that the superintendent need not need not be present but overwhelmingly likely will be thank you

▶ 2:05:03 Gail Infurna: alderman inferno please thank you very much just want to state that really it really is the job of the school committee it's their responsibility for the budget so I would make a motion to recommend this alderman inferno has made

▶ 2:05:19 Peter D. Mortimer: I made a motion that we accept the Ad Hoc Charter Committee language on item 34. Second. And remove the last sentence, which I previously read, and it was duly seconded by Alderman Zwirko. On further discussion, if any. Seeing none, all in favor, please say aye. Aye. Aye. Any opposed? Opposed. One opposed. Two. Two. Two opposed, thank you. Three opposed. So, this item will be recommended for passage to the full board. That was item 34, and the next item we have is item 35. It is section 6-3 of the charter, submission of operating budget, budget message. Changing the deadline of the school committee's submission of its budget to the mayor 30 days before the submission of the Mayor's budget to the Board of Aldermen to, begin quote, within a reasonable time, end quote. And changing words in the last sentence from, begin quote, superintendent of schools, end quote, to, begin quote, school committee chair, end quote. And this passed at the ad hoc charter committee by a vote of eight to zero.

▶ 2:06:41 Peter D. Mortimer: President Kahn, please.

▶ 2:06:47 Speaker 6: Yeah, the way I look at this is the mayor can't send his budget down to us without the school budget. So from where we're situated, really our concern is just to make sure that we get the entire budget as submitted by the mayor. So I don't think that setting an arbitrary period of time before we get the budget for the school committee to submit is necessary.

▶ 2:07:12 Speaker 6: And so I think that this change would be something I would be supportive of.

▶ 2:07:15 Peter D. Mortimer: Thank you, President Kahn. Is that a motion, sir? Yes. President Kahn has made a motion that we accept the ad hoc charter committee recommendation on this language, duly seconded by Alderman Inferna. Is there further discussion, please? Seeing none, all in favor of item 36, excuse me, item 35, please say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Hearing none, this item will be recommended to the full board for passage. The next item we have before us is item 36. Section 733 of the charter, preliminary election, adding, quote, mayor, unquote, to the title. And this passed eight to zero in the ad hoc charter committee.

▶ 2:08:05 Peter D. Mortimer: On discussion or motions? Motion to approve the- We have a motion to accept the ad hoc charter committee's language. Language made by Alderman Zwirko, duly seconded by Alderman McAteer-Margolis. On discussion, seeing none, all in favor please say aye. Aye. Any opposed? This item will be recommended to the full board for passage. The next item we have before us is item 37, section 75 of the charter. Adding the language, quote, with a report and representative from the office of the city clerk. quote and this failed at the ad hoc charter committee unanimously by a vote of zero to eight alderman Zwirko oh no no no okay anyone comments motions alderman Medeiros please

▶ 2:09:09 Monica C. Medeiros: thank you i just uh want to make sure i understand where it says to add the language with the report and representative from the office of the city clerk but uh there's a lot of sentences and

▶ 2:09:22 Speaker 5: in 7-5 as a section.

▶ 2:09:25 Peter D. Mortimer: Everybody's looking somewhat bemused. May it be a good idea to just hold this?

▶ 2:09:32 Peter D. Mortimer: I see if someone would like to call the city solicitor up, he wishes to grace us with his knowledge. So if somebody would like to hear from him, we're under suspension. Let's do it.

▶ 2:09:46 Speaker 5: Welch, perhaps more from me.

▶ 2:09:49 Speaker 3: All right.

▶ 2:09:51 Peter D. Mortimer: From one of the- You have the floor, Alderman.

▶ 2:09:54 Monica C. Medeiros: alderman medeiros you have the floor it's not clear where this language was intended to be in certain inserted in this section i i tend to think that i probably agree with the committee recommendation that it doesn't need to be there but uh just in terms of making sure i understand

▶ 2:10:14 Monica C. Medeiros: what the intention of it was um that perhaps alden's worker who was on the charter commission

▶ 2:10:18 Peter D. Mortimer: could answer that i don't know if you want a point of information while you have the floor through the chair do you want to ask all the because in the queue i have alderman in q i have alderman Rita excuse me in q i have alderman wright president khan and then alderman's worker but if you want to make a point of information through the chair to alderman's

▶ 2:10:39 Monica C. Medeiros: worker directly i'll allow it i'd like to make a point of information to uh through the chair to alderman's worker or one of the other members that of the charter review commission who are here who may recall exactly where that language was intended very good alderman Medeiros thank you

▶ 2:10:50 Peter D. Mortimer: alderman Zwirko would you care to answer that thank you mr chairman this actually came up

▶ 2:10:55 Michael P. Zwirko: somewhat organically when we were reviewing this section and the reason that this came up was because as it as it read before the proposed language failed it said the board of aldermen shall from time to time but at least once in each 10 years review these wards to ensure their uniformity in number of inhibitors there wasn't the feeling was at the time is that there wasn't any guidance or anything that came from the city's clerk's office who actually the clerk of the election clerk that really brings forth the new wards the amounts etc so this was just to codify that it's the board of aldermen with a report and representative from the office of city clerk shall etc so it was an expansion of the language to include that information from the

▶ 2:11:43 Peter D. Mortimer: city clerk's office thank you very much for responding to that point of information and

▶ 2:11:47 Monica C. Medeiros: you still have the floor that would mean after the last period and the last sentence of the after the word inhabitants in the last inhabitants sorry in the last uh sentence in that section

▶ 2:12:02 Michael P. Zwirko: on that further point of information it's an amendment to the last sentence that starts with the board of aldermen and ends in inhabitants thank you i alderman trey matosi as a member of

▶ 2:12:08 Peter D. Mortimer: the charter committee i will allow you to respond to the point of information as well please proceed thank you the last sentence it would read the board of alderman shall karma with a reporting representative from the office of the city of clerk karma and then the rest of the sentence

▶ 2:12:31 Peter D. Mortimer: does that make sense okay thank you alderman Tramontozzi alderman medeiros you continue to have the floor um and hopefully those uh answers were sufficient uh yes i i i would have expected

▶ 2:12:43 Monica C. Medeiros: this to somehow this section to somehow address the city census or but but this

▶ 2:12:56 Monica C. Medeiros: I I think I would agree with the Charter Review Commission's proposal not to

▶ 2:13:02 Peter D. Mortimer: include it all right thank you very much alderman Rita please thank you mr.

▶ 2:13:07 Francis X. Wright Jr.: chairman I was actually supporting your idea that the city solicitor come forward and comment on this that said I think we've clarified it so that will

▶ 2:13:19 Peter D. Mortimer: not be necessary all right so you we won't need the city solicitor or you won't need the city solicitor others may but so there we are president Kahn any

▶ 2:13:27 Speaker 6: commentary that I would have at this point would be beating a dead horse very

▶ 2:13:38 Peter D. Mortimer: good alderman's work oh okay you were just on the queue you were in the queue Yeah, so we need a motion.

▶ 2:13:42 Mary Beth McAteer-Margolis: I move not to pass.

▶ 2:13:44 Peter D. Mortimer: Okay, Alderman McAteer-Margolis moves that item 37 be recommended ought not to pass to the full board. Second. Seconded by Alderman Boycelle. Seeing no further discussion, apparently, this voice is really dead, all in favor please say aye. Aye. Any opposed, hearing none, item 37 will be given a recommendation ought not to pass to the full board. The next item we have before us is item 38, it is section 8-2B of the charter. Adding the word, quote, executive, unquote, before, quote, secretary of the school committee, end quote. And this passed by a vote of eight to zero at the ad hoc charter committee.

▶ 2:14:30 Mary Beth McAteer-Margolis: Motion to recommend.

▶ 2:14:31 Peter D. Mortimer: Alderman McAteer-Margolis has made a motion to recommend this order for passage to the full board. Duly seconded by? Second. Alderman Inferno, on discussion. Seeing none, all in favor please say aye. Aye. Any opposed? This item will be recommended to the full board. Do you have discussion, Alderman? Okay, this item will be recommended to the full board for passage. A point of personal privilege, Alderman Zwirko.

▶ 2:15:04 Michael P. Zwirko: For these next four items, I'd like to make a motion to treat 39 through 42 in concurrent action. Section 10 has to do with transitional provisions. It's essentially stating when the applicability of said charter will go into effect. I don't see any need to take them all individually. Happy to do so, of course, but I make the motion to seek concurrent actions on item 39, 40, 41, and 42.

▶ 2:15:27 Peter D. Mortimer: Alderman Zwirko has made a motion to see concurrent action on items 39 through 42 inclusive. Duly seconded by, who was that? President Kahn. I will, just for the benefit of the public at home, I will read the Orders 39 through 42. 39 is section 10-6 of the charter. Time of taking effect, removing, quote, ratification by the voters, unquote. And replacing with, quote, approval by the legislature, end quote. And that passed eight to zero. The next item, 40, section 10-62. Time of taking effect, amending the year 2007 to 2019 as the first citywide election to take place under the newly amended charter. This also passed unanimously eight to zero. Item 41, 10-63, time of taking effect. Adding the words, quote, of each even numbered year, end quote. And this passed unanimously eight to zero at the ad hoc charter committee. Item 42, 10-6, 5 through 7, time of taking effect. the deletion of these sections in their entirety as obsolete. And this passed eight to zero unanimously at the ad hoc charter committee. The conjoined orders are now before you.

▶ 2:17:07 Speaker 5: I don't think we took a vote to conjoin them.

▶ 2:17:10 Peter D. Mortimer: We didn't take a vote to conjoin them? Vote to conjoin. All in favor of taking the vote to conjoin them, accepting the motion to conjoin them, please say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Hearing none. The orders are conjoined. Move to recommend. Second. President Kahn has made a motion to recommend the four conjoined orders, duly seconded by Alderman Forbes. On discussion, Alderman Medeiros, please.

▶ 2:17:37 Monica C. Medeiros: May we please have the city solicitor come before us for a moment?

▶ 2:17:42 Speaker 3: We certainly may.

▶ 2:17:45 Monica C. Medeiros: Thank you, Mr. Van Campen. If you might be able to address the time of taking effect, removing the ratification by the voters and replacing it with approval by the legislature is this taking away the ability for the voters to ratify this charter change just give me a

▶ 2:18:27 Monica C. Medeiros: minute to look at that language so what is your question again alderman if we were to accept

▶ 2:18:34 Monica C. Medeiros: the recommendation in 10-6 time of taking effect removing ratification by the voters and replacing with approval by the legislature would we be taking the opportunity for the public to vote

▶ 2:18:48 Monica C. Medeiros: on this charter away so there are two ways to adopt the city charter or to amend it one is

▶ 2:18:55 Speaker 7: for ratification by the voters at an election and the second one for our purposes is by the legislature following action by this honorable board. This particular charter, assuming the board decides to send it to the legislature as a home rule petition, would be ratified not by the voters, but would be approved by the legislature. So for purposes of what this document would look like at least for the next 10 years, it would be approved by the legislature.

▶ 2:19:31 Speaker 5: This is specific to this document. Correct.

▶ 2:19:33 Speaker 7: whereas the charter that we're working on this evening was ratified by the

▶ 2:19:39 Monica C. Medeiros: voters in 2005 okay thank you very much for the clarification there and I and I guess this goes back to some of the discussion in one of the proposed changes earlier tonight I would suggest that at this time we should we have several items that we haven't taken final votes on we still have the ability to make changes ourselves and we may in fact want to make some changes that are substantial to this Charter and I think that we shouldn't take that option away yet to to decide in which manner we would vote on this in finality whether it would be sent to the ballot or sent to the legislature and I think this should probably be the last very last vote that we take pending making all of

▶ 2:20:30 Peter D. Mortimer: our other changes thank you entertain a motion mr chairman Welch there's a motion on the floor

▶ 2:20:37 Speaker 6: i want to make a privileged motion very good then i would move to divide this order from the

▶ 2:20:40 Speaker 3: orders that have been joined okay um to love the guy who moves to join the orders

▶ 2:20:44 Peter D. Mortimer: well we we had the vote in the past but as uh people here know under the rules of our Board of Aldermen, anything that's logically capable of division, except for numbers of dollars, can be divided. So now we have divided.

▶ 2:21:07 Speaker 6: 39 is divided out.

▶ 2:21:08 Peter D. Mortimer: They're all divided out, I suppose. Are you asking only for 39?

▶ 2:21:12 Speaker 6: No, I'm only asking that 39 be divided.

▶ 2:21:14 Peter D. Mortimer: Okay, only the 39 be divided, that's a privilege motion. It's automatic, requires no second, requires no vote, so 39 is before us.

▶ 2:21:25 Speaker 6: Motion to hold 39, Mr. Chairman.

▶ 2:21:27 Peter D. Mortimer: Second. Okay, first I need you to withdraw your motion to pass, recommend for passage.

▶ 2:21:35 Speaker 6: My motion to pass is just to the orders that have not been divided.

▶ 2:21:37 Peter D. Mortimer: Welch, it was for all four of them. So you withdraw that, Alderman Forbes, will you withdraw your second on 39? Yes, I will. Okay, so that's divided. Now you have made a motion that we hold item 39. That is the third motion that I make relative to item 39, Mr. President. And is somebody going to recommend the second that order to hold 39? Seconded by Alderman Medeiros.

▶ 2:22:01 Speaker 6: If we can have discussion on that briefly.

▶ 2:22:03 Peter D. Mortimer: Of course. So you have made the motion to hold item 39, duly seconded by Alderman Medeiros. On discussion.

▶ 2:22:11 Speaker 6: I do agree that we probably should wait until we have a final product, until we make this motion. If we go the way we're going, we may just seek a home rule petition. So it's probably wise for us not to cross that bridge tonight.

▶ 2:22:26 Peter D. Mortimer: Very good. So any further discussion on the motion to hold this item 39 in committee? Seeing no further discussion on the motion to hold it in committee, made by President Kahn and seconded by Alderman Medeiros, all in favor please say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Hearing none, item 39 will be held in committee for further reflection and discussion. Still joined are the orders that I read a moment or two ago. Items 40, excuse me, the items I read a moment or two ago. Items 40 through 42 inclusive and they are before us. President Conner. Mr. Chairman, I'd like to make a motion to recommend those votes. President Conner has made a motion to recommend the conjoined items 40 through 42. Second. Duly seconded by Alderman Forbes on discussion.

▶ 2:23:21 Peter D. Mortimer: Seeing none, all in favor of recommending to the full board for passage items 40 through 42, please say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Hearing none, items 40 through 42 inclusive will be recommended to the full board for passage. President Kahn, please.

▶ 2:23:38 Speaker 6: Mr. Chairman, I'd like to make a recommendation to the committee as to how we proceed from here. Please do. We've taken more than 40 votes relative to different orders. What I would suggest is that we consider this another time in committee that prior to that meeting that the chair and Ms. Camosa come up with a schematic that indicates the votes that we've taken up or down on each individual item so we have that all available to us. we vote on the final product and that we also entertain discussion of any other issue that any other alderman wishes to bring before the committee before we send it across to the full board and included in that discussion would be what format we're going to utilize in terms of passing whatever we recommend if in fact we do recommend it so i would suggest that that might be the way

▶ 2:24:42 Peter D. Mortimer: that we might want to proceed if that's a motion i'll second it okay uh the capital idea and we'll take it as a motion seconded by alderman medeiros all in favor on discussion alderman medeiros

▶ 2:24:52 Monica C. Medeiros: please yes and i i would just like to uh here maybe we have the city solicitor here so this

▶ 2:25:01 Monica C. Medeiros: would actually be good in in if there were motions that the individual members uh wanted to bring forward obviously we could make them at any time during discussion of this Charter but I would suggest and think that it would be easier to sort of digest if there were some kind of written written proposals if members have suggestions if we write if we wrote them down and submitted them but I don't want to violate the open meeting law so perhaps the city solicitor could suggest I'd like to like for instance I'd like to suggest a couple of revisions but I would also kind of like to give them to the Board of Aldermen to think about

▶ 2:25:46 Speaker 3: before getting into this chamber so how can that be a festival running a foul a

▶ 2:25:49 Speaker 7: suggestion I would make if I understand you correctly would be to attach your item to the agenda packet which is a public document obviously we don't want deliberation and electronic or other format among members of the board or a quorum for majority of the board that is probably the only suggestion I could make is to attach any any written motion you may wish for consideration at the next committee meeting to be attached to the agenda packet thank you very much so

▶ 2:26:19 Peter D. Mortimer: just just so people here are in the chamber and members of the public at home watching there may be outside of the recommendations from the ad hoc charter committee ideas for revisions to the charter that individual alderman may have and alderman Medeiros was concerned that if she submitted those for the reading and reflection of the full board that we may be running afoul of the open meeting law the city solicitor has given us his counsel and stated that if they are just submitted and added to the agenda packet uh for all the public to see available to the public and not discussed among a quorum of the

▶ 2:27:11 Speaker 7: board of aldermen we will not to further clarify this i would just recommend if anyone does that that the document be titled proposed motion for september 11th meeting of the approach or something along those lines so there's no confusion about what that document is all right so i think

▶ 2:27:25 Peter D. Mortimer: I think that's fairly clear to us, and I hope that's clear to anybody watching at home. That any ideas, just for the sake of expediency, so we don't get surprised or as President Kahn referred to it, so we're not all sitting here shagging fly balls with an idea we heard for the first time. All the men who have their own ideas about how to revise the charter can and We probably should submit them under the heading of proposed revisions, proposed motions for revisions to the charter at whichever meeting it may be occurring.