Snow Cancellation Project — Blizzard Bags (15 minutes)

Transcript (~41 min @ 1:50:55)

Speakers identified by voice; unnamed voices are numbered within this recording. Auto-caption text — verify against the video.

▶ 1:50:49 Jessica Dugan: great job thank you and last on the EP MP agenda tonight is discussion around a school cancellation project proposal blizzard bags we will hear from the superintendent have an opportunity to ask questions have conversation this evening but we will not be voting on this until our next meeting which is two weeks from now the superintendent assures us that a vote at that time if we move forward will give us the time we need to or the time she needs to submit

▶ 1:51:22 Speaker 2: necessary paperwork so I'm gonna correct you because that's not true anymore okay

▶ 1:51:26 Jessica Dugan: so just I will just want to say and then I'll let you take over we did receive a tremendous amount of feedback from the community around blizzard bags we thank people for sharing that it was a lot of support but also some interesting folks who did not support the proposal and we very much appreciate the input from folks who wrote directly to the committee I know the superintendent has brought the proposal towards some of the site councils and is making that circuit as well so just want to make sure that we acknowledge that and know that that will inform our thinking over the next few weeks as we consider so I think

▶ 1:52:06 Speaker 2: we're under a little bit of pressure to think about this in more in a more immediate way aside from the fact that I live in fear of the weather first of all

▶ 1:52:20 Speaker 2: I want to stop at thanking my colleagues Kim Smith and Eric Conti and David Hodgson, Wakefield, excuse me, Burlington, and Gateway, in that order, who shared with me their work in this area, especially Kim Smith and Wakefield, who basically met with me, North Andover, and Saugus and said, here, do what you want with everything I've already done. So I thank them for that. There's not enough days in the year. That's the bottom line. We can't get everything that we've gotten done and I listen to your questions tonight and you keep circling back to PD PD PD and there's just not enough days in the year and you know our teachers have families they have obligations and what we have found is lots of our people can participate up until June 30th it gets

▶ 1:53:24 Speaker 2: tougher over July and August I reached out to the state already in anticipation to this and first of all stop calling it blizzard bags the state does not like that that's New Hampshire's term and it does not indicate Massachusetts expectations on this New Hampshire's expectations are on this very differently and I had a great conversation with a very helpful woman at the Office of Charter Schools and Redesign those of you who do not know Desi's been reorganized again and that's her department Shay Edmond and there is no application process okay I had sent her a a pre-intent letter and asked her could you give me feedback on this so I could get take her feedback here tonight night and her answer to me was your pre-attent letter covered all the bases it covered everything we expected you to cover at this point it's between you and your school committee you do not have to apply for this and what Massachusetts calls this just so everybody has the correct terminology is alternative structured learning day programs I can't even come up with an acronym I'm sorry

▶ 1:54:41 Speaker 2: okay and you can google it on the on the on the department's website it's under

▶ 1:54:53 Speaker 2: school redesign so and let me read to you just some of it because it is two

▶ 1:55:07 Speaker 2: pages long with and again and what basically what she said to me is this is pre pre a preventive yes she said this is a preventive approach as opposed to a reactive approach in other words we're planning ahead of the event she says you cannot use this for anything but inclement weather it could only be used for inclement weather so I said to her so my friends who lost electricity for three days if they had this in place they could not use this and she said no they could not because that was reacting to an event not inclement weather so they're very clear this is about inclement weather only so if we had a gas leak you couldn't use it we had a power outage you couldn't use it we had a tree fall on the middle school roof we couldn't use it you could only use it inclement weather and let me just read you this middle paragraph while the concept of alternative structured learning day programs is relatively new in Massachusetts the department recognizes that such programs are designed to reduce the number of additional school days beyond the 180 required days and minimize student learning disrupted by weather related emergencies by providing alternative learning activities for students that may be completed at home these programs may be an alternative option for schools to pursue as long as they can assure that the programs meet the standard for structured learning time and that the assignments or projects are substantial these programs must also be accessible include appropriate oversight and teacher involvement rather than resembling traditional homework assignments and be approved by the district school committee okay that's it so we have provided you with all the literature that we have helped to that we've developed with again Kim Smith's help about oversight responsibilities monitoring this project and everything else and at this point in accordance to Jesse this is between this is your decision at this point so it's

▶ 1:57:27 Speaker 2: interesting it's an interesting time in education as we explore CBE online learning blended learning dual enrollment independent learning in every other configuration that we are exploring beyond brick and mortar all

▶ 1:57:48 Speaker 2: right I was amazed when this woman said to me well this is just another way to learn and she used the words beyond brick and mortar which I found very reassuring considering the rest of the work we're doing so it's that shift in where do kids learn and how do they learn and I think the key to the whole thing is the design of the assignments we give them the other key to the process is making sure that those children who for some reason may not not have accessibility to some of the tools that are needed have a time and

▶ 1:58:36 Speaker 2: support when they return to school to do the work and we think we have included

▶ 1:58:42 Speaker 2: that I will tell you staff is excited about this and not because they're going to be home doing nothing because if you read the literature you will see that they have responsibilities especially at the secondary level but but they are very much engaged in student agency and student independence and they see this as an extension of student agency and student independence and I was very reassured last night because when I went to the meeting with the medical parents and again they have just as much access as anybody else here a little known fact that I picked up in preparation for another project is there are seven million people in the world and six million of them have cell phones and that's more people than have access to toilets so we're very connected society

▶ 1:59:33 Speaker 2: but one of the things I heard from my parents last night that reassured me is the question was posed to them what are your kids getting from school and they all talked about their kids independence their kids ability to monitor their own work their kids pride in their own work and I said to myself my god we're

▶ 2:00:01 Speaker 2: getting it done I know that some of the responses that we got from some of the parents were concerned that they would have to do the work I don't know how to to disabuse parents of that desire or that obligation you know we try to say

▶ 2:00:18 Speaker 2: to parents you only step in when your kid struggles to the point where it's so frustrating they can't do it we try to encourage children to do their own work we certainly try to discourage parents from doing their children's work the mayor is fond of telling me he can't do his son's work it's beyond him so he

▶ 2:00:51 Speaker 2: just told me it is okay so I think part of the part of that one of the steps we would have to take is to make sure that our teachers at their PTOs talked about parents about whose job it is to do the work and whose job it is to maybe just

▶ 2:01:11 Speaker 2: encourage but I think it's an opportunity for us as we move more and more away from the constraints of brick and mortar I will I will never deny a teacher in front of you is the most valuable thing I you know I fight for it every day but I also think that we want kids to be independent self-directed learners and for all of you who have college children and know that that's probably one of the most difficult skills for them to take to college it's a skill we have to help them master so can you before we have questions can you

▶ 2:01:48 Jessica Dugan: help us understand I mean this is a significant investment of time reading through those responsibilities there what why is this you know we already get out of school earlier than many districts around us in June because we start before Labor Day. We have not in the last few years come up against an end of June deadline in a very long time. Seems plenty of time for PD at the end of school. So why is the time and effort that this will take such a priority right now? We just heard that we don't have time to develop science units what what's the why is this so why is this happening now so well it's happening now because

▶ 2:02:37 Speaker 2: you're seeing a shift to this across the whole state two years ago when we had a very bad winter I think and many other districts went right up until June 30th they lost valuable PD time and things like that I think while right now we get out early we're not always guaranteed to get out early and the closer we get to july 1st the less participation we have in pd because people have made their summer plans i think you heard from parents we have a tremendous amount of working parents in this district and one of the things i kept reading was now i can plan my life and i know having been a working parent how difficult that is i've been in that situation where you make summer coverage plans for your kid and you pay for them and all of a sudden oops i'm losing a week's whatever i think there's a lot of different factors that come into this

▶ 2:03:39 Speaker 2: i also will tell you that the later you go in june the tougher it gets in the buildings um you know one of the reasons when you go to school in other parts of the country they begin school mid-august and get out the end of may it has to do with the weather um you know uh we're very we're very hung up in um a new england station it's nine states for those of you who don't know it it's new england new york pennsylvania new jersey who is enamored of this concept about being out of school until labor day and having a february and april vacation

▶ 2:04:17 Speaker 2: I for one would go to a March vacation but I never said that out loud right I think that it will help us in a lot of the things we're trying to get

▶ 2:04:33 Jessica Dugan: accomplished questions discussion from the committee mr. O'Connell thank you

▶ 2:04:36 Speaker 5: very much I always wonder where the song lyrics and it come from during the song lyrics and clearly here it's blue skies nothing but blue skies coming our way focusing on the positive and among the many positives I think with this proposal has been the feedback and the chair spoke to that it's hugely important that we get feedback both pro and con it really goes a long way toward informing our decision-making so we're grateful for that likewise we're grateful to our chair because it falls to our chair to respond to all the emails we've received as a committee so thank you mr. is cool for that with regard to dropping the blizzard bags I don't think there's any chance that in

▶ 2:05:34 Speaker 5: fact I think it's a big well give it given the response you know I think we may want to think about blockbuster budget Bonanza enrollment Armageddon and school calendar Smackdown because it clearly generates a lot of interest

▶ 2:05:49 Speaker 5: yeah that's not that's not happening that's not happening one question and maybe through the chair to the chair about the feedback we received I never thought about this before but how much of it other than our discussion of it here tonight goes to the superintendent do we ever share that kind of yes we do

▶ 2:06:13 Margaret Raymond Driscoll: well when we receive a an email from a parent and it affects the schools ninety

▶ 2:06:22 Margaret Raymond Driscoll: nine point nine percent of the time as opposed to something like your school committee goals or something like that I copy the superintendent on the reply so she has received a reply and the original email on every single email that we received

▶ 2:06:42 Speaker 5: great thank you a couple of follow-ups if i may i appreciate the detail of the proposal and i appreciate you thanking your fellow superintendents particularly helpful the roles and responsibilities document and the assignment examples and uh not just here tonight but in in my meetings with the site councils uh people have been talking about that as they've looked at our agenda packet or our meeting packet and i also appreciate the out of the box thinking that i think is reflected here i want us to be pushing the envelope and trying new things am i understanding correctly that this we are still treating this as a potential pilot program

▶ 2:07:32 Speaker 2: you can decide whether you want it as a pilot you can decide if you want it as a year-to-year decision you can decide whether you want to limit it to just the five days we would be required to make up and if god forbid we had a blizzard of 10 days we still had to make up those five you know those net five days you can decide you know again my guidance from DESE is this is ultimately your

▶ 2:07:57 Speaker 5: decision how you structure this so and this is my last question for the moment to follow up on a question that the chair asked and it was the why now question you know what's this push about at this point and I do have a sense and I think it was reflected in some of the input that we got from parents it does feel like this is very much part and parcel of a larger push toward increased online learning spoke to that we've been seeing it and feeling it I think as a criticism but but you don't view it that way necessarily no again I don't think

▶ 2:08:42 Speaker 2: online learning is ever a substitute for the debate that happens in a class the conversation that happens among students or the guidance that a teacher can provide but I think we're foolish to think you know the teacher is the purveyor of all knowledge is going to continue into the future you know in education circles we talk about teachers as facilitators more than teachers as providers of all knowledge and again technology is a tool it's one of many many tools that is in this that is in our tool bag but I think you'll also have to understand and I'm going to speak to this a little bit in a few days is the world we're setting our kids up for it's a very different world than we all experienced and you can talk about your own personal experiences you know my own son who is in the technology field works from home one or two days a a week I have other friends who have national jobs and they don't have an office they may go to an office in Canada once every couple of weeks it's just you know the nature of the world that our kids are going to enter and they have to have a good mastery of information gathering information creating as they move in to their futures so when we talk about the use of technology and learning it's not because it's a substitute but because it's recognizing the reality of their lives I mean I sit here and out of a corner of my eye I look at Miss McAllister-Grant ask her what she does every day and actually we had a very humorous conversation about it and you can relay that story I won't steal your thunder but our our kids and we all know that she teaches at you know the world's greatest University hitting her course on that that kids don't recognize paper anymore there to that point you heard in

▶ 2:11:09 Speaker 2: response to miss Cassa tell his question about writing that our digital literacy specialist is working with the kids about creating digital portfolios when our kids submit papers to our teachers they don't nobody goes like this anymore

▶ 2:11:29 Speaker 2: they go like this send one of my English teachers is up back he opens the Google Doc he makes his notes he sends it back this is the world our kids live in and

▶ 2:11:46 Christine Casatelli: going to work in Ms. Castatelli so I agree with this is how grown-ups do work in the workplace but you're missing one component i think in the in the workplace we use webex we use go to meeting and i don't see any technology here there's google hangouts but that's limited in scope in this plan so i'm my fear is that there's a snow day um a teacher will just hand

▶ 2:12:16 Christine Casatelli: a kid some work and say okay we'll see you when the snow melts so so what you

▶ 2:12:29 Speaker 2: got here is not the finished product we've we have discussed this with the union at labor management and again everybody's waiting on your vote it once you give approval the teachers are going to sit down and they're going to just they're going to fill out this chat a lot of this was just examples and they will fill out this chat the content facilitators the coaches the principals the department heads will sign off on the quality of the of the work

▶ 2:13:01 Christine Casatelli: assignment again well we saw we see that the quality of the work result who is

▶ 2:13:07 Christine Casatelli: who is we well I'm I'm interested in seeing this as a pilot but I want to make sure that the work that we get after a snow day is high quality work

▶ 2:13:17 Speaker 2: there is a requirement here to I didn't want to use the word audit but to review the work and and make that assessment there it there is a review process built into this the technology that is in the the template document quite frankly is my limited technological ability believe me my staff surpassed me you know I so I

▶ 2:13:48 Speaker 2: will leave it to them to flesh out the details of what is possible for kids my

▶ 2:13:53 Christine Casatelli: second question do we know that we have a hundred percent that our students have

▶ 2:14:02 Speaker 2: internet connectivity 100% we think it's 99% miss Arnold did a little bit of a survey for me a couple of years ago actually she did it thinking that we would find out we had an issue and she reported back to me that she was surprised at how many of our kids are connected don't forget for a lot of our kids this is a walking computer but as I said we built into here opportunities for kids who aren't connected we also are trying to build out low-tech there some of my clumsy examples in here of trying to build out low tech um so kids have options

▶ 2:14:42 Speaker 2: low tech for those of you who don't know like low tech is a pencil and a paper

▶ 2:14:50 Christine Casatelli: so um so i would support this as a pilot i think it needs some face-to-face mechanism built in so

▶ 2:14:57 Speaker 2: then i would say limit it to the five days make we already have in the calendar and anything beyond that we have to make up that would be my suggestion to you and speaking of pilots

▶ 2:15:09 Jessica Dugan: I actually would consider have it kick in after the five days that to me would be something that I would be more comfortable with then we know that we're not going up against then later in June and families can plan by April for their time in their camps and we still are prioritizing face-to-face learning time

▶ 2:15:34 Speaker 2: and camps deposits is due in February I would love to know camp that was in

▶ 2:15:40 Jessica Dugan: deposit was due in April I do think sorry I didn't mean to interrupt

▶ 2:15:44 Margaret Raymond Driscoll: mr. school thank you so I feel that the documents and the explanation are tremendously thorough I think there's always going to be questions I very much agree with miss Casatelli that this should be a pilot and I'm not comfortable with five days I think it's too many I'd like to start it even on a smaller scale so I think three days it's still a couple of days but I'd like to see what it what it looks like what is it and then I want to hear from families and I want to get some feedback so but I do believe in I mean taking the first step and I think we can do that tonight on a limited basis based on the the input we've received based on the level and substance of the documentation based on your call with the department but in a limited way that's respectful to our students and our staff so I would make a motion to approve this concept with a limit of three days with an update back to the committee after two days where this has occurred and we a reconsideration of this procedure if you will in September of 2018 can you just clarify what you mean by three days

▶ 2:17:02 Speaker 2: I don't understand it for three days so did you never use it I can never measure

▶ 2:17:05 Margaret Raymond Driscoll: it right so it's we never three days but after the three days it's the days are tacked on to the end so you try it and see how it works okay and what was the

▶ 2:17:17 Margaret Raymond Driscoll: second part about two days that you so after after it's happened twice so it happens January 6th and you know February 6th so after February 6th at the next school committee meeting yes on the agenda under EP and P goes how basically how did it go a report from the superintendent on its efficacy okay

▶ 2:17:43 Christine Casatelli: is there a second second for purposes of additional discussion there's a motion

▶ 2:17:46 Jessica Dugan: made by mr. school seconded by miss Casa telly discussion and Olin yeah I would

▶ 2:17:52 Speaker 1: just I think your idea is fine but I'd like to hear a little bit more feedback I mean I don't think people really know there's a circle of people that are on the internet in terms of the community Facebook page that got a hold of this consent is a blast of dozens and dozens and dozens of emails that doesn't mean the whole community has an understanding of what's going on I this is a relatively new topic i think if we give it one more cycle of one more meeting i think they'd be it could be

▶ 2:18:25 Speaker 2: flushed out just a bit more well i'm not going to ask teachers to put the time and the effort into creating assignments that i don't know if they're not going to they're going to be needed i will say that to the committee we have other work we need to concentrate on in the meanwhile

▶ 2:18:37 Speaker 8: i don't think anyone's asking you to do that yeah

▶ 2:18:42 Speaker 3: miss McAllister grant so I I do support this proposal I think there's a lot of positives and a number of the emails we received pointed that out learning beyond school walls student agency use of technology lots of good stuff not leaving probably most importantly securing dedicated time for teacher professional development which I think is critical to where we are right now I i also see opportunities which some of the folks in the emails mentioned as challenges so one opportunity to speak to ms casatelli's point is technology how will students get support beyond their parents hopefully not their parents on these days i think there was a mention of the ask a librarian option that there might be the ability to chat with our media and technology experts while students are doing work i think that would be huge and a general scaffolding skill that we want to build into how they're doing research every day not just on a snow day other folks mentioned this is a culture change there could be support around that i agree cbe is a culture change it's all part of the same movement and i think if we can be intentional in the way we talk about that that can really help and another email mentioned the tools that are currently used i think in the secondary level for teacher to student and teacher to family communication that those are not necessarily the best and perhaps we could look into something more effective or trying something different so i think if that could be part of this pilot effort thinking about supporting our students to access through technology their research support and building their communication with their teacher that would ultimately help our efforts you know and scaffold our efforts to to learning beyond school walls broadly so so i thank you for this proposal and i thank

▶ 2:20:47 Speaker 3: everyone for the feedback and I will support it I think I don't know that I

▶ 2:20:56 Speaker 3: need to I think I want to wait two weeks as well and give people a chance to give

▶ 2:21:06 Speaker 5: us further feedback mr. O'Connell I too support in general terms as a pilot program and with all due respect to the chair I would also like to wait my one last question about this for the moment madam superintendent will the program review include collecting and considering parent feedback on this we

▶ 2:21:32 Speaker 5: could it could so my question is now a recommendation or request that it it does I know there are a lot of other factors but if we could have that as an as part

▶ 2:21:48 Jessica Dugan: it that would be great thank you so i'd make a motion to hold okay motion to hold um so i i second okay sorry second made by mr school seconded by miss custody um i would say i i'm i am not in favor of the proposal um mostly because i feel like the need isn't um identified well enough to me to warrant the amount of time and effort that it will take of our staff to do it well i'd rather see us go deep on something i i think there's a huge value in exploring learning outside of brick and mortar i think there are intentional ways to do that when it can connect directly to the learning that's happening in the classroom but for this it seems like learning experiences will be created and then put on hold until a snow day not necessarily tied to what is happening uh within the day and and i would love to hear if that's not um that's not

▶ 2:22:48 Speaker 2: true so if you read this carefully there's three levels of there's three levels of types of uh assignments the teachers can give they can give immediate assignments they can give intermediate intermediate length assignments and they can give long-term assignments so that if so you have to remember there is nothing that we do that is a one-time learning assignment everything is connected to the final outcome at the end of the year whether it's increasing kids writing ability increasing their application of math skills increasing their understanding of the scientific inquiry method everything is a cumulative experience and anything you do on any given day that reinforces any of the skills that we expect children to be able to master by the end of the year whatever we do to reinforce it is working towards that mastery you know I that's how I feel you know you want my teachers to come forward and talk to the about this they can come forward and talk to you about about this but I'll tell you one of the things that we do and you were all concerned about the science is come the second half of the year actually the last February

▶ 2:24:08 Speaker 2: March think about it winter season we do spiral reviews of all our science topics why because of the way that exam is set up if we do not do the spiral reviews we have a concern that kids will not remember what they learned in third and fourth grade to take the fifth grade exam this is a perfect opportunity for spiral reviews this is a perfect opportunity for narrative writing we got hit on narrative writing on the mcast this is a perfect opportunity for a kid to take the scientific inquiry method and apply it at home to a simple science experiment anytime we give a kid the chance to either improve his mastery of skills or to apply what they have learned is a bonus for us because it in because that it it internalizes that much more what they are learning when I

▶ 2:25:07 Speaker 2: began to look at this as a couple of assignments assignments here I'm not crazy about but again I'm not spending my time reviewing this and and working with my staff on it until I know it's a go my time is spent as it is I don't have enough hours in the day so but I would I I really have a problem with that with that I mean that's like saying telling God kids with what what saying that you don't see this connected to what we do and into the outcomes that

▶ 2:25:40 Jessica Dugan: were with I'm sorry my the comment was connected to what they were doing the day before and the day after it's not necessarily an opportunity to continue I'm not saying it's not valuable at all but I'm just saying it I don't see that

▶ 2:25:55 Speaker 2: is necessarily connected well the high school people in the middle school people certainly see that connection because they work in longer units and you know let me tell you you know there's many a time that you know you talk about conferencing writing conferencing my ELA teachers you go and you look at their schedule for the week maybe Wednesday is their student conferencing day what is the difference between conferencing in the building all day long while the kid is sitting in the room and conferencing over Google Doc from everybody's home it's conferencing that's in the middle of a unit I just disagree maybe because I am in the business of planning units and thinking long term every you know as a teacher when I was a teacher but again this is your decision in the end yeah I have presented to you a plan I've run the plan by teachers we're running the plan by school site councils you have input from parents in the end it is this committee's decision and the teachers

▶ 2:27:01 Jessica Dugan: and I will abide by your decision I I think that the proposal is challenging to me as well because it was brought to us relatively quickly without a lot of notice so to me this is more than a procedural decision this is a decision for us to deliver some of our 180 days in a different way with a different educational model I think that's a significant decision it's not one that I would personally take lightly as a committee member and I do think that it takes time I also think it takes collaborative input and effort from the folks who are on on one part of it which is families I'm not necessarily gonna sit down and teach my children how to do the homework but I am going to have to make sure that they'd sit down and do it so I wouldn't claim that I have to sit there and teach them that's your teachers jobs and they do it well but I am but I do have to manage their time that day and that is a challenge that I don't think that we should belittle what parents have that concern I certainly

▶ 2:28:09 Speaker 2: don't belittle it but you can really see when you read the comments that you when this committee got you really see a difference in how people approach what they view as homework and it's an ongoing struggle for the district as a whole I agree you know and I know you I know I know you agree with that and and I don't look at this as homework I look at this as classwork I do have another

▶ 2:28:37 Jessica Dugan: concern and maybe it's something that I'm happy to look into it over the next two weeks but because we do get out of school already earlier than a lot of the schools around us and maybe that will change in the next few years if more people start doing this but certainly for this year I don't know a tremendous amount of camps that start June 13th maybe I'm wrong but I do think that most of the camps I know start later in July because they're waiting for schools to get done so that's something that I will look at and I'm happy to share if people are interested but I do think that there's a disproportional effect on some of our families that are working and is one of the concerns that we heard from community members who wrote in that now they take days off to cover snow days but they don't win those days back at the end of the year they have more days actually that they have to cover for childcare in the summer than they did before so I think there's additional effect there I'm interested in also hearing a little bit more and it was well fleshed out but I'm interested in the effect on our special ed students I know there are services that they can get if they like but it almost felt like that wasn't necessarily you know that that's a that's a significant effort on your staff again I'm not sure that this is the the way we should be asking people to spend their time when we are working on all the other initiatives in our district right now to me it's taking the time to learn a little bit more the site councils have been asked to share their input but I know that not all of them have met I think it's critical that that they have the opportunity to weigh in as well and are part of a proposal that is developed collaboratively so that's my hesitation not that I think it's a bad idea in the long run but that I think it's something that needs to be developed a little bit more intentionally and deeply I do think sounds like we've decided to hold continue the conversation for next okay

▶ 2:30:45 Jessica Dugan: so is there any further discussion on the non blizzard bags on the hold

▶ 2:30:55 Jessica Dugan: correct further discussion on the hold all those in favor of holding that

▶ 2:31:02 Jessica Dugan: carries unanimously is there any further discussion on blizzard bags this will

▶ 2:31:10 Jessica Dugan: be something that we return to in two weeks we do want to make sure that we can vote and make a decision and give the superintendent time to to move forward if that's the will of the committee thank you very much that

▶ 2:31:24 Margaret Raymond Driscoll: concludes EP&P thank you next we have the policy and planning subcommittee