Snow Cancellation Project - Alternative Structured Learning Day Program (15 minutes) vote required

Transcript (~44 min @ 1:46:48)

Speakers identified by voice; unnamed voices are numbered within this recording. Auto-caption text — verify against the video.

▶ 1:46:54 Jessica Dugan: the title right hold on school cancellation project we're returning to this after a conversation at our last meeting the superintendent have any updates or additions before our deliberation no at this point the will

▶ 1:47:12 Margaret Raymond Driscoll: of the committee is to yes so there is a motion on the can you refresh us on what

▶ 1:47:18 Speaker 1: that motion was last meeting no I have it right here was it simply a motion to

▶ 1:47:47 Speaker 3: approve the motion that was approved last week was or two weeks ago was to

▶ 1:47:53 Jessica Dugan: old yeah the motion was to hold the motion the original was to approve the

▶ 1:47:57 Margaret Raymond Driscoll: snow cancellation project with a three-day limit with updates to the committee at the next meeting following the use of two of those days and with the reconsideration by the committee in September of 2018 so that is the motion

▶ 1:48:16 Jessica Dugan: that is now being returned returns but it does not need another second it had a

▶ 1:48:22 Jessica Dugan: second so it's so with that live motion are there questions comments mr. O'Connell

▶ 1:48:27 Speaker 4: thank you very much and through the chair to the superintendent I think inevitably we're going to go over some old ground here madam superintendent but you're gonna have to bear with us we've gotten a tremendous amount of feedback that's that's proven valuable I think to our thinking about this three questions perhaps to get the discussion going if you'll indulge me the one I've been seeing a lot and I'm gonna give you all three at once if I may first question what's the rush why now the second question and I think it's going to be incumbent upon all of us to answer this as a result of what we do tonight is the second question is how could this possibly be the equivalent of a day of school and the final question at least for the moment how will this program impact special education students and families so I don't see a rush the state

▶ 1:49:41 Speaker 1: gave us permission last year last spring I wanted to research it speak to other people that have gone down this road before I went down that road this road I had already been the pioneer on late start I didn't care to be the pioneer on this for sexly and gathered my evidence gathered my input as I told you met with Kim Smith from Wakefield spent some time with her and two other supers as we explored this and then I came forward with it it was in a timely manner we have not had snow yet time is slipping away so i don't see this as a rush um number two how can it

▶ 1:50:24 Speaker 1: be the equivalent um i don't mean to disabuse anybody here of what they think happened during

▶ 1:50:32 Speaker 1: a day but um we look at this as similar to when we do tutoring for a kid who's out of out of school for a while you get one to one hour of tutoring per day of school because it's a one-on-one experience it's a more direct intensive experience it's not so much a classroom experience so we feel that it's that it's productive and useful and ultimately what matters is the product and so we feel if we have quality

▶ 1:50:55 Speaker 1: products coming then we're doing them then children are gaining the sped children I have miss Whiteley right speak to that but I think there is a misunderstanding or an overstatement about what happens when kids miss services there are incidental circumstances in which kids miss services that we do not make them up child is sick the teacher is sick kid goes on a field trip you have a fire drill those services are not made up services are made up when they reach a point where we believe there would be be substantial regression if we were ever in a situation where we had whether you had snow days or blizzard bad days or whatever you want to call them and we were pushing five six seven days at that point miss White-Lambright would get concerned come in my office and say we got a problem but when you have incidental circumstances where kids miss services it's just that it's incidental

▶ 1:51:57 Speaker 4: so if I may ask a quick follow and I apologize for interrupting but I don't want to lose this absolutely so compensatory services first time I've heard this so this is an educational process politics is a learning profession as it turns out this this is a this this isn't this is a planned event so a pre pre planned contingency so this isn't something that happened out of the blue and I'm talking about cancellation or missing of services so does that change the equation with regard to providing compensatory services and really what I want to hear about is whether the onus is going to be on the parents to seek these services so if we have five blizzard bag days or even if we have one or two and there's a concern on the part of a parent a caregiver or family about these services is it we creating another obligation for them to get these services or alternatively and I hope this is the answer are we because this is a pre-planned event are we going to be prepared to address that on our initiative so two answers one I'll answer

▶ 1:53:24 Speaker 1: and one Patty will answer Patty will talk to you about compensatory services if you read this whole document the assignment for the paraprofessionals is to plan on how to work with the child when they come back so that when we come back on the next day the paraprofessionals are ready to go with this is what the assignment was the child had nobody to help them this is what i'm going to do to help them okay so we we accounted for how the paras will be preparing for the child's return on the day that we're not in session so that's that's planned for okay um all the ots the pts and everybody else has to do work planning on that day about how they'll address situations when they come back yeah I'll leave it to Patty to talk about compensatory services thank you

▶ 1:54:19 Speaker 2: so compensatory services in regards to special education is really based on an individual basis so there's not a blanket one-size-fits-all just as special education this whole idea of individual the piece that you're looking for is that because of an extended period of time and exactly what that extended period of time would vary for different people is there an impact so is there substantial aggression is there also an extended period of recoupment

▶ 1:55:10 Speaker 2: okay so it is extremely unlikely that missing a day is going to have a significant impact on a student's ability to progress so they would not have the absence of one day of service they're not going to have substantial regression or need for substantial recruitment time so as far as that component of compensatory service if we had an isolated day in February and then a day in March that would not be a great concern around that particular issue the issue would be is if I am certainly hoping we do not experience this snow season that we have in a couple of years ago but if we had an extended period of time off that would be a concern I just you know just to tell you how we think about that I just had a meeting with my ETFs and I was reminding them hope we'll be coming up to our winter break our special ed teachers engage with all of

▶ 1:56:26 Speaker 2: their kids and then in some depending on what it is and then they do the same type of activity when they return because we're looking to collect data how did kids do without having instruction for a week or for six days so an isolated day here would not be something that I would be concerned around or would not meet a criteria of needing to explore compensatory service

▶ 1:56:56 Speaker 4: okay that's a fair and reasonable answer and thank you for that just a quick follow-up if I may I'm sure so again my concern is us shifting a burden or putting the onus on the parents so if there is god forbid a five-day situation or a significant one that would trigger in your estimation as a professional for example the need for compensatory services I want to be sure if we go forward with this as you've just described in anticipation of winter break there'll be a proactive approach on our part I don't want to create a situation where we're creating an obligation that doesn't presently exist perhaps uh for parents

▶ 1:57:45 Speaker 2: yeah good thank you absolutely no i would be as concerned um as any parent if i would we had an

▶ 1:57:53 Speaker 4: extended period of time great thank you for that manager i have other questions but i'm so i'll

▶ 1:58:02 Speaker 1: yield i need to expand on that thank you if god forbid we had the blizzard of 78 and we were out 10 days the urgency when we come back is regardless of when you

▶ 1:58:15 Speaker 1: make up those five days the urgency when you come back is kids have been without service for 10 days what are we going to do about it now it's not oh gee I'm going to pick up where I left off and gee I'll make up the days in June because the urgency, Mr. O'Connell, has become ten days without. Do you understand the point I'm trying to make?

▶ 1:58:38 Speaker 4: I absolutely do. I mean, one of the pluses of doing this is that we don't lose touch, hopefully, with people completely for ten days. So I hear what you're saying, and I understand it, and I think that's part of the value here, ironically. Again, Madam Chair, I have more questions that clearly yield to my colleagues.

▶ 1:59:04 Margaret Raymond Driscoll: I saw mr. skull yes so the reason I made the motion that I did with parameters around the amount of time is to basically provide an environment to try something new that was intended to solve some problems so I think that one thing I think is really important for us when we talk about providing educators opportunities to think outside the box and to do things and see how they work and in a safe space is safe to fail if it doesn't work and that's why the the you know the confines around this was the intention but I think as a committee providing you know certainly within reason an opportunity to support problem-solving and exploration coming back with data coming back with oh this is or isn't working is an opportunity for us to explore within our oversight role an opportunity to try something something a little bit different and I know the superintendent talked about five days and I kind of like three days because it's it's pretty limited but it also gives her the flexibility to to it a shot and see how it works and to have parents try it and who knows we may parents may find that they like it more or like it less than they um anticipated they might so i i think it's a great opportunity to see what happens um in a safe space thanks mary dolan um my mind remains open but but

▶ 2:00:48 Speaker 5: i don't support this at this time um for a couple reasons one um i don't see a problem

▶ 2:00:59 Speaker 5: there are a lot of problems to be solved and i don't see this being at the top of the list we go back before labor day therefore we have plenty of room the idea the great consequence has always been doc going into school into july we have no chance of going into school with july under our current schedule right i've also seen a trend in you know maybe i don't know you know it's sometimes when i said something happened two years ago was really seven but i don't remember the distance right when the idea was the hours and the number of days in school i've seen a shift now towards going to school less and the superintendent would agree i think that four or five years ago when we called off school we used to get a lot of calls don't call off school why are you calling off school it is the extreme opposite now where not only do they want us to call off school they want us to call off school by six o'clock the night before and we just don't get the calls of of why i'm having school the push now is to not go to school right so we need to have kids in front of teachers i get it right and and i understand that that different things can be attempted i think the goal here all right is not our responsibility with all due respect as someone who has a family who likes to go on vacation when they get out of school to tell people exactly when they could go on vacation on an exact day that's our responsibility is to educate kids for

▶ 2:02:33 Speaker 5: 180 days a year right but what I think we do don't have an obligation but what could be helpful is ensuring take for this year June 20th is truly the last

▶ 2:02:46 Speaker 5: day of school right so I don't like the idea of starting off with this program I think it should be the avenue of last resort if we were to have a winter like 2015 I would be open after X amount of day three four when we're approaching that critical mass of going into close to August I've been going to July the The superintendent would have at her disposal the right to implement this program in that situation only. But to start with this program and limit the number of days in which teachers are in front of kids, I think is not the direction we should be heading.

▶ 2:03:29 Speaker 1: So if I understand you correctly, your proposal is similar to Margaret's but flipping it.

▶ 2:03:36 Speaker 5: well I'll be I'd be open I'd be open to it in an extreme winter situation for a couple reasons one and a ribbon I could close yeah well there's certain realities that we have to deal with in terms of the DPW is a good job moving snow but I've also seen a trend in the weather when we get hit we get hit now there's no longer those simple you know six to eight inch storms it's now you know 14 inches over 24 hours right if I I think that is a couple reasons one once you get to late June there is a certain there's a certain heat drop-off within the school day and what's actually being achieved it could get up to 80 90 degrees in a Horace main classroom right that's a reality in late June and that affects learning environment right but there's also your your pretty comprehensive very comprehensive professional development courses that you run out of Morris high school that need to be protected in our interest in taxpayers interest I appreciate parents telling us that you know like cancel April vacation and February vacation and make it March and I've heard this send home a bag with parents and that's not just the gentleman's here today I hear that all the time we live in a unionized environment in which all those things have to be negotiated when we don't have a lot we don't have anything to give back in terms of that negotiation everything currently in a contract is it in perpetuity so the reality of that happening is incredibly small right without a strike of the teachers right that's a reality I this should be a program of last resort another issue is I don't think we're prepared to implement it this winter I just don't think I don't I don't think we're ready right the other question is what happens

▶ 2:05:34 Speaker 5: if the kids don't do the work we're not gonna know till we try I don't I don't I just don't I don't I guess at the core of it I don't see a problem I have great

▶ 2:05:39 Speaker 1: faith in our kids I think most of them would do the work especially our secondary students would look at it as an opportunity to work on their long

▶ 2:05:48 Speaker 5: term project I get it but if you're in class and don't do the whole the quiz or

▶ 2:05:52 Speaker 1: assignment you have five days to make it up just like as if you were absent and if you don't make it up after the five days and it's just like when you don't

▶ 2:06:01 Speaker 5: make up any other work I get it I'm not listen I'm the first one to support the schools when they want to do anything creative or in any department I have to say I cannot accept that this is the same as going to school in front of a teacher for a full day how I can't I can't come to grips with that however I i am willing to vote for something and the board may proceed forward and that's the right of the board right here that that gives you the power in an extreme winter to utilize this as a tool to manage your school district as you see fit in the case of a winter like 2015 or as you articulated the blizzard of 78 and if we're in that situation then this isn't it still has been a problem because we're looking at massive budget cuts because that's that's that's the the reality that's my take obviously majority rule and I'll support the

▶ 2:06:56 Jessica Dugan: majority just for a point of clarification right now our 180th day is June 13th it plus 5 is it and and then if we have snow days it would extend for five days to the 20th but right now when 180 is June 13 I'm sorry June 13 June

▶ 2:07:10 Speaker 4: 13 14 was that miss Hogan's clarification that we got a couple of ago is it the 14th or the 13th this is this year's calendar what you saw a few

▶ 2:07:27 Jessica Dugan: weeks ago was very good Wednesday June 13th is the 180 thank you very much mr.

▶ 2:07:39 Speaker 3: Sam thank you I did a fair amount of review of last meeting as you might recall I was not here so I felt I had a homework assignment that I myself needed to accomplish and instead of getting five days I got 14 as was previously

▶ 2:08:03 Speaker 3: noted we had a inordinate volume of email and communication from various parents within the community on this topic and this is to put it mildly a

▶ 2:08:28 Speaker 3: complicated very complex topic I find myself between those parents that want to have the school day to be a treasure childhood moment because you know their kids are in a fast-paced environment and those who want more stringency in our academics and better performance on tests etc there is some credence to the idea that 90 minutes or at the primary level one hour is not equal to 382 minutes of a teacher in front of you give or take understanding that there's some break time and a small amount of time that students can actually attempt to eat lunch this is a situation that while I feel a trial is warranted I'm also deeply uncomfortable with us using our students as trial lists or guinea pigs I am heartened to know that other school districts have tried this to mix mixed results and it's those mixed results that make me concerned I also

▶ 2:09:37 Speaker 3: struggle here with the idea of social emotional learning the idea that we want to be cognizant of student stress and the concept of teaching students to self-learn and have self-directed studies but the idea that they've got five days and if they don't get it in because they've got a dozen other assignments that they're dealing with at middle school or high school level that's an additional additional level of stress but I as a parent with the two

▶ 2:10:18 Speaker 3: children that I have have to be cognizant of and finally there was a an interesting stat that was mentioned last meeting that a survey pointed out or

▶ 2:10:30 Speaker 3: brought to the attention of this body that there were roughly only about 1% of students who were not connected virtually at home through you know their phones or computers or what-have-you but with the idea of educational equity in mind I'm concerned about that 1% I'm concerned that that one that we're shortchanging and requiring students that need to log into Google classroom or whatnot have to use their phones rather than a terminal a laptop an iPad tablet what-have-you and thus find themselves in a unable to fully participate in their classroom environment their same time or FaceTime or what-have-you with their teachers etc and then lastly let's talk about the teachers for just a minute if they're setting up a Google classroom and by rights most of them already have such but if they are setting up a secondary go bag if you will for in case of emergency for this situation that's one more thing we're asking our teachers to focus on above and beyond the 20 students boards of 25 in some cases that they have in front of them and if we're asking for a all right so ballpark it here if you've got 20 students and one teacher and they're spending an hour on each granted there's a fair amount of overlap time there but if they have to answer questions for those 20 students we're not talking one hour or even six hours that could be an all-day thing into dinner into the next day the teachers want this I brought it

▶ 2:12:35 Speaker 1: to the Union first I want to spend time developing it if I thought the teachers

▶ 2:12:42 Speaker 3: were going to fight it you mentioned that but we also know that this is a a particularly interesting time with regards to unions and everything gets codified or at least contractually obligated which brings me to a roundabout point I was getting ready to make which is to say that for more actually to ask would we need a side letter to implement this so what's to

▶ 2:13:09 Speaker 3: what obligates the teachers in as much as we're asking them to to prepare this

▶ 2:13:19 Speaker 1: because they're honorable people and the professionals I want to believe that I

▶ 2:13:22 Speaker 3: really do I want to believe everybody's honorable I want to believe everybody's a professional but just as we heard earlier with the youth risk behavior services everybody lies I think that's a really I'm having a lot of difficulty

▶ 2:13:44 Speaker 1: with that statement about about staff about adults and if if the union says to me we're committed to this and we will help you make this happen I have to believe them because if I do not have trust with them we get nothing done so I'm having a really hard time right now with that statement that's totally fair

▶ 2:14:17 Christine Casatelli: thank you miss Castelli so we got our the school cancellation project two weeks ago and we've gotten some positive feedback and we've gotten plenty of our

▶ 2:14:26 Christine Casatelli: share of negative feedback and still even tonight we've gotten some and I guess what this tells me is that we haven't done our jobs communicating the benefits of this initiative to our families or and or we haven't demonstrated the supports that will be in place to help this initiative succeed and of course we haven't because this is only two weeks old so that leads me to believe that the school cancellation project is not ready for prime time at this time not for five days or three days or one day it's just not ready and it may have some potential and there but there still needs to be some education that needs to take place to get the communication to get our community on board and we are just we're not there yet so until that happens I cannot support this motion tonight although I do like the idea of a teacher blizzard

▶ 2:15:33 Speaker 2: bag for professional development thank you miss McAllister grant so I see some

▶ 2:15:39 Speaker 2: positives in this proposal in that it's moving in the direction that we're trying to move with our students we're trying to to think about student agency and their ability to do work independently and just sort of explore their interests more independently to use technology in new ways so I think I see a lot in this proposal that goes in the direction we're trying to go with our students I agree with miss Casatelli that I think we could do more education around it with our parents in our community I think it's a good opportunity for one someone in one of their emails called it like a culture shift or a culture change that it's thinking about education in a new way that we've been talking about but we haven't necessarily done on this broad of a scale so I do think some additional education would help my thought for for whatever it's worth is that we got a lot of very thoughtful feedback from parents more than I think we've gotten on any other topic and really detailed thinking point by point through all the different dimensions and as the superintendent has said this is ultimately the committee's decision so it's up to us to decide I would be very interested in having a working group including some of the parents who might be interested who shared that thoughtful feedback to advise us on what what the best approach is and to take some time to think thoughtfully about what is our goal what is it we're trying to achieve what's the best way to achieve that and what do they recommend that we do and so it doesn't feel like a rush and it feels like we've considered all the proposals and we have an opportunity to have a little bit longer conversation and do some education and hopefully put some scaffolding in place around you know you'd be able to reach out to your librarian and this is what it would look like and you know just to give people a better sense of what the positives are to miss Cassidy's point so thank you mr. O'Connell so having the capacity to

▶ 2:17:49 Speaker 4: count to four I can see where this is going but I'd like to go over a couple of points, if I may. First of all, I agree wholeheartedly with what Ms. Driscoll said, and I think I spoke to this a little bit a couple weeks ago. This is the kind of stuff that I want to see you doing, and I said that and believed it about CBE. You were right out front on that. You're not quite right out front to the extent that Wakefield and Burlington beat us to the punch on this, but we're right there with them, as it turns out, because Wakefield's really doing it for the first time this year. Planned it last year, doing it this year. So there's no data, there's no results. Burlington's was much different, to mixed reviews, I might add. So I feel very strongly about supporting you proposing things like this. In the absence of us doing it, we need you to do it. So I appreciate that. I also appreciate the fact that you reached out to the site councils to get feedback. to the extent that we talked a lot about operationalizing the site councils and invigorating their relationship with us and with the school community you've done that in this instance every every one of the site councils I went to they were talking about this this was on the agenda and it's important to note that because that's not just parents it's not just us but it's teachers it's community members as well and like the feedback we got honestly the the feedback from the site councils was mixed I think we all saw the feedback via emails and probably the people we talked to was running slightly in favor of this but as has been pointed out some of the more thoughtful comments were really against this if I could ask a couple of questions and I see where it's going I don't want to belabor it but I I don't want to just walk away from this the trigger I think mr. school has proposed a three-day trigger as I'm calling it where we would have three snow days and then this would go into effect okay so

▶ 2:20:09 Speaker 4: I agree with the mayor then and there we go with all the respect to the chair and I think this is what Burlington is doing too if I understand it again what the mayor is suggested and what I'm talking about such that we would use this for two days and then go to I'm sorry we would have two snow days well I would

▶ 2:20:35 Speaker 4: say two because if school ends on a Wednesday my thinking is we'd have snow days on Thursday and Friday and rather than going to that next week we would trigger the blizzard bag proposal or whatever we're calling it I think that's what Burlington's done after having tried this a couple of times they don't

▶ 2:20:54 Jessica Dugan: have a specific number of days defined they do it based on I think it's where they're at saying that the weather situation yeah so I mean to the extent

▶ 2:21:01 Speaker 4: that we were talking about doing this as a pilot I would want to have snow days for two days and then rather than going to the next week having to make up school that we would do this instead another thing that I thought made sense the Burlington did and is doing is the live hotline on days when they do this clearly there's angst about this one way to deal with that and what Burlington has done with success both in the first year and if it goes into effect this year as well is having a way for people to call from home and say okay what do I do you know how do we deal with this likewise in Wakefield and we might as well cherry-pick the best of these things if we do this now or whenever we do this the dedicated webpage you know with a link from the the Melrose schools dot-com page where people can go to see those frequently asked questions again to see an overview of the program to see the thinking behind it and also a place to host assignments and or links to assignments I think that's something that Wakefield is doing very well the other thing I feel strongly about is the program review and I know you were a little hesitant when we talked about it two weeks ago when I asked about this madam superintendent but in Burlington again to success there was a survey of parents and teachers and I think we would want to get that kind of feedback so I would support this and if this was going forward I would want to make friendly amendments but again I think we can all see where this is going unless I'm reading the tea leaves wrong so I think people felt rushed by this I every teacher I talked to was in favor of this every teacher and I think this is as much about moving and where we're all

▶ 2:23:09 Speaker 4: moving toward online learning and the use of technology and I think a part of this if we're being honest is really about socializing people to that end but that's the reality we're dealing with so I would support this with with some caveats but I'm not sure that any of those caveats as I've described them are

▶ 2:23:39 Jessica Dugan: enough to sway the members thank you further discussion questions the motion

▶ 2:23:46 Margaret Raymond Driscoll: on the floor is to approve the snow cancellation project with a three-day limit with updates to the committee at the next meeting following the use of two of those days and with reconsideration by the committee in

▶ 2:24:03 Speaker 3: September 2018 mr. some through the chair to the superintendent would you elaborate on why the teachers are behind this I'm stuck between why there's so much angst against it on the parental front and so much enthusiasm on the teacher front

▶ 2:24:24 Speaker 1: i think teachers recognize a couple of things they recognize the difficulty of teaching in the month of june as the mayor has has talked about the later you get in june the more difficult

▶ 2:24:40 Speaker 1: it is um and i'm also to bring up a contractual issue our contracts are written that teachers have 14 days before the issuance of um report cards to do their grades so i want you to think

▶ 2:24:58 Speaker 1: about that in terms of a calendar can you explain that they do their grades if you're if you're closing on june 13th their grade they have they have until the end of may to do their grades and turn them in 14 days before the report before before the report cards are issued it's a contractual issue so basically I want you to think about the impact on

▶ 2:25:22 Speaker 1: teaching and learning all right in June all right you don't want me to discuss it here I've been advised against discussing it here I'm going to discuss

▶ 2:25:27 Jessica Dugan: it does that does that date change if there are snow days yep but still so if

▶ 2:25:31 Speaker 1: you go to that if you go June 25th that means teachers start calculating their grades June 14th it's not like term one two and three where you can carry

▶ 2:25:48 Jessica Dugan: forward work whatever the last day of school is whether there's snow days or

▶ 2:25:53 Speaker 1: not it's 14 days before that that they have to start calculating their grades now I will tell you most teachers especially at the high school do not do that because they do finals they are there at that last day calculating grades getting them in that's also part of the reason why we do early release at the high school for finals is because the teachers have to get their stuff graded and get their grades in but that is not necessarily true at the

▶ 2:26:23 Speaker 1: elementary schools all right I also want you to think about June with the number

▶ 2:26:31 Speaker 1: of field days would sorry so they're thinking about productivity they're thinking about getting things done while they can they all recognize the difficulty of teaching in June I don't have an answer for that besides contractual issues there are reasons why down south they get out of school the end of May and go back mid-august they are also enthusiastic about this for the very reason that mr. O'Connell especially at the high school level the very reason mr. O'Connell referenced teaching is changing it's a very difficult shift for people I will venture to say that Jamie's baby will not spend 900 hours in a classroom by the time she gets to high school I will venture to say that by the time she gets to high school she may be sometimes in the building sometimes at home sometimes at a field assignment because that's

▶ 2:27:30 Speaker 1: where we're going and this is very much part of that we've made a commitment as district to stop thinking about brick and mortar because we know that this is not real life anymore this is another example of it but again ultimately the

▶ 2:27:50 Jessica Dugan: decision is yours so the question has been moved all in favor what was your motion to move the question so means we take a vote immediately on the current motion on the table which was the one that mr. school has read those in favor

▶ 2:28:11 Speaker 2: did we get a second to that yes there's a second yeah and there's a post I'm sorry that's okay you said move to so the motion on the floor right now but

▶ 2:28:24 Jessica Dugan: you don't need a second she has a second she had no Rob doesn't need a second his is just a call for us to stop deliberation and take the vote okay that's all it is so all those in favor those opposed

▶ 2:28:37 Jessica Dugan: miss McAlister grand in favor in favor okay those post okay so the motion is declined three four and four against thank you madam sheriff a point of

▶ 2:28:50 Speaker 4: privilege just before we leave this there's also the the matter of us being put in a box financially as we come up on our budget season and that's part of this that we haven't really been talking about and it because our community we collectively have made a decision to effectively tie our hands financially we have to be creative like this we have to think outside the box particularly with regard to alternative learning approaches and this is one of them so those who would oppose this kind of thinking and this kind of idea I would just suggest you know we all need to look in the mirror because we have to do things like this we have to think about things like this not just because technology is cool not just because it's the wave of the future but because it's 97 degrees sometimes in the Hoover School in June and when I have teachers telling me that and I have no response in terms of us being able to bring resources to bear to fix that these kinds of ideas are almost a necessity so

▶ 2:30:17 Christine Casatelli: thank you miss Castelli so I agree we have to move in this direction but this proposal is not ready it is half-cooked and for it to succeed it needs to be