ORDER-2019-48 : Petition of National Grid and Verizon New England, Inc to relocate 3 jointly owned poles on Howard & Green Streets-- poles 176-1,177, and 208 out of the center island of the intersection of Howard St and Green St per request of the city of Melrose. Work Request #27869322, dated 2/12/2019

Transcript (~34 min @ 40:34)

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▶ 40:31 Speaker 2: motion to open the public portion of the public hearing so moved second we have a motion to open the public portion of the public hearing made by honor Mortimer second boys now all in favor any opposed this will open the public comment portion of our public hearing on the order just read I would welcome forward anyone in the audience who wishes to speak on this order I would point out that this is dealing with the relocation of three poles at Green Street and Howard Street this is the part of a planned construction in the area however the board this evening is not voting on the plan we are not the plan is not before us for approval or disapproval it is simply to approve or disapprove the moving of these poles we do have a member of the audience already in front

▶ 41:16 Speaker 1: of us thank you sir hi good evening John jankowski 170 Medford Street in Malden Mass I'm representing National Grid National Grid thank you for being here

▶ 41:25 Speaker 1: this evening so actually this exactly we are going to relocate that intersection into a rotary type of intersection just going to relocate those three poles from

▶ 41:40 Speaker 2: the center island to the exterior the members of the board may have additional questions for you following some of the public comment so if I could ask you to just step back briefly and we will hear from any members of the public and then we'll close that portion of the public hearing thank you sir good evening my

▶ 42:10 Speaker 2: name is Gerard Canton. I live at 164 Green Street in Melrose. As you know, you probably

▶ 42:20 Speaker 2: had the agenda of me being a resident in that area for over 50 years. I have quite a history in that area. I've seen a lot of changes, a lot of different aspects. I just quickly,

▶ 42:37 Speaker 2: i'm just going to go over this here i understand the polls this is still moving polls around putting me in front of people's houses putting me on sidewalks and this is just part of this whole thing that going on as far as i'm concerned we should have actually had more public participation in what another alternative could have been for this area to take and remove a triangle area that is very appealing to the neighborhood and to put the stuff in a thing that's going to be cement and tar to an area that this rotary should actually be in an area that's in a much larger street location, an area that is much more in a commercial area. The other thing is, as I said before, this is a business area. It was business zoned, and now we're taking some parking spaces away from the businesses in the area, which are going to suffer. That's the last thing we need to do is take parking away from businesses. That area is very strifling for parking.

▶ 43:59 Speaker 2: The other thing is we're just going to make sure that all these poles are going to be in proper positions. And the other thing is, while we're talking about poles, there's a pole number there, 176. It's in that same area. It is so narrow between the pole and the wall there that people with a stroller that have a two-person stroller has to go out in the street because they can't get between the areas. And it's right in the same location. And that should be really looked at if this is what we're going to have there. But I really think, when this is all done, that a roundabout is not made for this area. There are other alternatives to slow traffic down. We know that. We know that we put speed signs there that have worked. The traffic commission has even said so. We should try these other alternatives before we take and ruin a nice little green space. And looking at this storm, boy, I don't know where you're going to put the snow when you got a roundabout it's going to end up in front of people's yards that's where it's going to end up I am just sorry to see that we in Melrose are putting in something that should not be there we're making the place more look like a city and that's not where we are thank you for your time thank you sir if

▶ 45:45 Jennifer L. Lemmerman: you could sign in thank you thank you I would just reiterate for the public as well as members of the board we the board the board has no authority to vote on whether there is a roundabout in this area we are not that is not before us if anyone has comments on the moving of the polls the locations of the polls that's what is on our agenda this evening or the process by which the polls will be

▶ 46:03 Speaker 2: moved thank you good evening madam president my name is Rosa Dutucci and my family owns the property at 150 Green Street and I'd like to say that I thank you personally for the attention that you have paid to me and my concerns regarding this project. And I had already sat down before you said you can't talk about the project, so forgive me. Indulge me, please. I'll do this very, very briefly. This project, first of all, no one in our family had been apprised of the fact that was even happening we were told after the fact we didn't we were never given a notice nothing about this project when I saw the plans I was at first very excited I thought how how lovely some green space you know modernization of that intersection and then I realized that this particular rotary in that particular place would decimate the utility of the property that we have there it is a six unit it's brand new it's beautiful but it will literally remove the one free the one the only access to the front of my building from the street there will be no parking there will be no trash pickup it you're literally taking away the utility of this entire building I'm asking that and I know that this is a different discussion this evening but please understand that what's happening here really is a case of form over function and that as pretty and as lovely and as avant-garde as this project could be it is actually impacting the residents and the property owners in that location in ways that you may not know because frankly some of us were not informed and And we're not able to give our viewpoint. So I know this is a different issue. But I would ask everyone, please, please, take into account the concerns of the residents, the owners in this location. Allow us to give input. Take a look at other alternatives. Because this is really fitting or shoehorning a solution into a very tight space. And to get this to work there, you have to take away the utility. And what you're doing is hurting the residents for the sake of a very lovely roundabout. So I would beg you, please, do not make it impossible for the people who live in my building to move in and out for an ambulance to come, for the trash to come. It's a serious situation, and there are implications here that have not been thoroughly discussed and thoroughly taken into account. Thank you for your time, and once again, Madam President, thank you very much for your responsiveness to me.

▶ 49:24 Jennifer L. Lemmerman: MS. There's further comment regarding the polls and the movement of the polls as laid in the order.

▶ 49:31 Peter D. Mortimer: MR. Motion to close the public comment portion of the public hearing, Madam President.

▶ 49:34 Speaker 2: MS. Second. MS. We have a motion to close the public comment portion of this public hearing, Mortimer second by Alderman Forbes all in favor aye opposed the public comment

▶ 49:44 Speaker 2: portion of this public hearing is now closed seeing that we do have the gentleman from National Grid here I would recommend that we we are under suspension of rules we bring him forward allow for any questions from the board and finish with this order prior to recessing to the appropriations as we under suspension I will invite you forward thank you and I would note that

▶ 50:19 Jennifer L. Lemmerman: we do have representatives from the we have the city engineer here with us as well I'm sure there be questions regarding the movement of the polls as it relates to the city side of things as well we could bring her forward do we

▶ 50:34 Monica C. Medeiros: have questions from the committee thank you and in particular I if miss Paracas Ellis could come I want to start by saying a couple of things so this area and although I'm an alderman at large right now I'm was previously the ward alderman for this area for six years and it's an area in which I often received calls of concern especially during times of snow and that there was no place to put the snow I often received calls with concern about not having adequate parking in the area and that there wasn't enough spaces and frankly there aren't any public spaces in that area Alderman Medeiros I

▶ 51:28 Jennifer L. Lemmerman: apologize I do need to reiterate what I've been saying which is that the roundabout is not before us we the design of this project is not what we voting on there have been several meetings in the process my understanding is the engineer's office is still working on things like perhaps on parking space that continues and I would encourage any aldermen who have a concern with that to reach out to that office we're discussing the polls this

▶ 51:52 Monica C. Medeiros: evening that's right we are discussing the polls this evening in order to make this change from an existing green space that has a veteran memorial in the middle of it and change that to be a roundabout we have to do a number of things and including moving four poles including taking away the green space and including taking away as of the last traffic Commission meeting it was nine parking spaces that you know I think this is a severe change to the area I know that the resident who had come forward previously when this order was introduced to us as well as tonight had an alternate plan design which I don't believe has been looked at it has been and I know there are concerns about

▶ 52:42 Monica C. Medeiros: moving these poles and the you know this is you know the the goal of this whole project is to include increase pedestrian safety and access and so some these poles that are kind of in existence already do make it tight to

▶ 53:08 Monica C. Medeiros: get by could you speak to the the changes in terms of how much width will be there on the sidewalk once we move these poles sure so as noted the the

▶ 53:16 Speaker 4: impetus for this project was complete streets so everything's being done with complete streets with accessibility with ability to cross the street safely and navigate around on foot or on a bike safely all of those considerations have been made so the proposed locations in an attempt to make the dots more visible on the aerial that I put together they they look like they may encroach on the sidewalk but that's not the case initially I just had a tiny little dot that was more to scale and I was told that you couldn't see them so I made them bigger but they are in fact in the grass strip what is the current grass strip completely off the sidewalk in all three locations the the locations we've selected because the veterans memorial will be moving from the center to the the large green spaces to the north of the proposed roundabout we we wanted to

▶ 54:19 Speaker 4: get the poles well we have several considerations one is the poles have to able to move before we start the project so their ultimate location can't be what is currently in the middle of the street so that was one driving factor and then secondly we met for about an hour out in the field with national grid the poles need to be able to support the wires that are there structurally without needing to add more poles to keep those poles from falling so these locations allowed all the existing wires to still hold up the poles in their new locations without having to add guy poles or guy wires or anything structural and then the third consideration was we didn't want to impact um directly within the area that was going to become the new war memorial or any really negative impacts right in front of somebody's house like right in the center we always try to not put the poles you know right in front of somebody's front door or we try to put them you know approximately at the edges of property lines so in this case we're proposing the two on the north side will be in the grass strip that's existing and the house that's behind that is set fairly far back from the street and we are to the side of their front walk we're not right in front of their front walk and then the one that's moving over to the corner near Haverhill place it will be basically on the street corner and again not right in front of

▶ 55:48 Monica C. Medeiros: somebody's home thank you thank you and while I recognize this is an order to move polls I have to say I I really am concerned with this design and the lack of spaces and the removal of the green space and the drainage in this area this is the only vote that this Board of Aldermen will have as far as I'm aware in regard to this project I know there is a traffic Commission meeting coming I I will not be supporting this order tonight in the hopes that perhaps you might consider taking this back up again at the Traffic Commission next week and considering a different proposal that might increase some of the green space and not decrease so much of the loss of parking.

▶ 56:35 Speaker 4: We are looking at increasing the parking again in front of 160 Green Street. the engineers do think we can pick back up at least a couple of spaces if not more so we're in the final design we're trying to see how many more of those we can get back in and we did consider our alternative that we considered at the first public meeting was very similar to the gentleman who spoke alternative and that did get voted down because it just didn't have some of the benefits that this proposal had in terms of the accessibility for pedestrians and the um the way in which it slows the traffic um it was just not deemed to be as as good of a proposal and then i did also send his design to the um even after we had voted on this in place of the one more similar to that i did send his design to our consulting engineers to take a look at it and they similarly felt that it was not it didn't meet all of our objectives whereas this does um so i i don't want anyone to think that we haven't considered it or that we didn't give it a serious consideration i spent at least an hour with the residents and so we're we're doing everything we can to try to satisfy everybody's interests thank you for doing that and i appreciate that anything that you can do to you know bring spaces back and especially some green space would be greatly appreciated thank you thank you thank you alderman Letter

▶ 58:01 Kate Lipper-Garabedian: garabedian yes um i think i just have two questions thank you both so much for being here tonight one of the public commenters mentioned an existing poll 176 are you familiar with that poll and his suggestion then it's so narrow that people are walking into the streets to to get around it where would that be where would that poll be I see there are a couple existing polls to remain but they're not listed yeah that's taken that one was proposed to stay as is but you know when we were out there I didn't notice that encroaching on the sidewalk but we will definitely take a look that wouldn't require a grant of location because it would just be probably a cut and kick if it was to move and if it is impeding the sidewalk and where this is a accessibility project I think it would be reasonable to have that pool moved at the same time if it's an issue okay that's great I'm not quite sure on which side of the street it is it's on my aerial it's just the one that says existing pole to remain okay so that's almost that's close to the church I think yeah it's closer closer which is where the Melrose family room is I'm a member so that's very frequented by families with young children so I think it would be great to take a look so thank you for thinking to do that we also have attached to our order a memorandum that establishes some conditions for the project and I noted that you are planning to notify all residents who will be impacted 48 hours prior to any work beginning and what kind of impact will this work have will they have loss of electricity for a period of time or how does that work no they set the new poles and then they move all the wires just transfer it yeah

▶ 59:32 Speaker 4: so no one should have any loss of service unless something goes wrong but typically we we haven't seen that nope so it'll just be more activity and yeah the road works in front of their house and and it might take a few weeks for all the different entities to come and move their wires some of these have fire alarm that the city needs to move streetlights that our contractor needs

▶ 59:58 Kate Lipper-Garabedian: to move um comcast okay so how so maybe i'm sorry that brings me how long do you think this entire project will take and is it sort of every day someone will be there or was it sort of more sporadic if if the city has the control over it that we'd like we would like it all moved within a month because we need to get the roundabout built to to meet our complete street schedule to qualify for the next round of four hundred thousand dollars if we don't have everything

▶ 1:00:22 Speaker 4: completed by May 1st we lose our opportunity to apply again for funding

▶ 1:00:32 Robert A. Boisselle: okay thank you so much excuse me okay you have two three poles are any wires coming across the high across the roadway to itself in connection excuse

▶ 1:00:44 Speaker 4: me in connection the same wires that cross right now will still be crossing they'll just be crossing in slightly different places so how tall are these

▶ 1:00:51 Robert A. Boisselle: pole is going to be that's i mean that's quite a distance from the new poles to 177 into the other poles coming across the roundabout be a standard 45-foot pole so it's not going to be one of the

▶ 1:01:05 Robert A. Boisselle: new the new ones that are almost 55. no it should not be no should not be okay so is it isn't going

▶ 1:01:14 Robert A. Boisselle: to be any sort of dip in the wiring it's going to be a straight tighten on the wiring itself that is correct so the trucks are coming through the oversized trucks shouldn't touch these wires at all now are you attaching any other cables to this uh to this particular uh these poles like the the verizon comcast and others and that's a jointly owned pulse of verizon and i'm

▶ 1:01:39 Speaker 1: assuming comcast will be involved in it okay so the power line has a top top space and then they

▶ 1:01:45 Robert A. Boisselle: keep coming down that is correct yes will that be a problem for these other groups putting their

▶ 1:01:56 Speaker 1: wiring in well that's why we'll probably put a 45-foot pole that gives more space the real tall ones utilities correct and those poles have been there for for a long time they're probably just 35 or even a 40-foot pole so you're going to give five extra feet right for that okay good thank

▶ 1:02:09 Robert A. Boisselle: Thank you very much. Thank you, Madam Chair.

▶ 1:02:11 Speaker 2: Thank you. Alderman Mortimer.

▶ 1:02:12 Peter D. Mortimer: Thank you very much, President Lemmerman.

▶ 1:02:18 Peter D. Mortimer: I'm concerned about this and your point that we are not here to discuss the pros and cons and the nuts and bolts of whether or not this project as a whole should go forward are well understood by this alderman. But I also appreciate the perspective of Alderman Medeiros when she said, we don't have a lot of power over this, but the one power we do have is that if we say no to these polls, it sends a clear message that maybe we don't want this project to destroy this guard and adopter site that's there. and it's a big conversation and again out of respect for your very appropriate direction I will not go into the nuts and bolts and pros and cons but this is the one power we have if we say no to these polls then that the the chain of dominoes is stopped the ripple in the ponds no longer spread out I have

▶ 1:03:28 Peter D. Mortimer: concerns about it so I'm inclined to vote against this I think we need to pump the brakes on this and take a look because this is a step in the direction to the completion of the project and and not to discuss the project but I think there needs to be a little bit more of a look a little bit of a pumping of the breaks take a pause let's look around before we destroy and adopt a site or change the character of the neighborhood and we haven't we've heard comments from people the public against it we haven't heard any people come in with comments in favor of the operation on these polls so my inclination is to vote against

▶ 1:04:21 Manisha Bewtra: this at this time thank you very much thank you can you clarify this point you just made about complete streets again and if we were to vote in favor against how that might impact that funding so if we're not able to move

▶ 1:04:41 Speaker 4: these polls at this time if we were to wait I'm not sure how long even a couple weeks we're up against a very tight deadline right now so the next application round for Complete Streets is May 1st and we have to have all three of our Complete Streets projects done and reimbursed in order to apply for the next round of Complete Streets funding so we would be potentially sacrificing the ability to apply for another four hundred thousand dollars in grant funding if we can't get this project done on the timeline that we had accounted for and and we spent a considerable amount of time in the fall working on getting buy-in for this project in fact when we went to the first public meeting we the city was as open to both options as as anyone we had no preference we heard the concerns and the opinions of the folks in the room and it was after that meeting where we decided that we thought the roundabout was the best option and then that's when we had Stantec take it to the next level of doing this preliminary design so that we could present it to the traffic Commission for approval which was a second public meeting and it it received a good amount of support also at the traffic Commission meeting so there's been a lengthy public process the two residents who spoke tonight are the two residents who I've had a dialogue with since then other than that I have had nothing but positive comments with regard to this project and then with

▶ 1:06:04 Manisha Bewtra: regards to and so those public forums our public hearings sounds like we're a

▶ 1:06:14 Speaker 4: butters notified and yes in both cases everybody received a hand-delivered notice okay I do recognize that where the resident at 150 Green Street said that she did not receive a notice I believe she's a property owner and has a tenant so there are two two factors at play one the tenant might have taken it but two I will say that we're not always 100% when we distribute to a larger building you know we try to leave enough copies for everyone and hope that everybody gets one but unfortunately it doesn't always play out so I apologize if the folks at 150 Green Street did not receive the notice but I'm guessing it's a factor of the multi-unit building thank you those are all my questions for

▶ 1:06:56 Jennifer L. Lemmerman: thank you the other alderman wishing to speak for the first time thank you my I

▶ 1:07:06 Monica C. Medeiros: had attended the the last traffic Commission meeting in which this was voted on my understanding at the end of that meeting I know there had been some discussion about whether or not to separate this roundabout from the other work at elm street and clifford and howard um and the understanding that that that work could be

▶ 1:07:31 Speaker 4: considered of independently potentially in terms of our complete streets project we ended up considering the traffic independently in terms of construction so that we could advance one part first and then the other part separately but mass d.o.t still considers this all one project and until we've spent the funding that they've given us we we can't resubmit so we've spent some funding up at the intersection of Howard Nelson and Ruggles where we put in the rapid flashing beacon we spent obviously a good chunk at the Clifford Elm reconstruction but we still haven't spent all of it so if we were to submit to MassDOT just what we've done and say we're not going to do anything at this intersection I'm not sure one that they considered a complete project and two we would certainly be sacrificing that differential of

▶ 1:08:26 Monica C. Medeiros: the money we haven't spent yet and um what is the time frame to actually do this begin this work

▶ 1:08:39 Monica C. Medeiros: we want to begin as soon as the snow stops um at this time i i you know continue forward and i hope that this is discussed at the traffic commission meeting and perhaps something like

▶ 1:08:51 Michael P. Zwirko: thank you thank you madam president thank you for being here this evening um i'll try to be brief uh you said that a firm was hired to review the plans when it was decided by the city to go forward with the roundabout view stantec are they an expert engineering firm absolutely so they they routinely draft projects of this nature yes and they understand transportation flows as well as uh issues with restructuring roadways accordingly definitely okay so this would be

▶ 1:09:23 Speaker 4: compliant with uh current standards yes it meets all the standards for turning radii and and it's considered a mini roundabout which is what they deem the most appropriate for a residential neighborhood it's not a rotary it's not a full-size roundabout it's basically as small as you can make it and still comply with all the regulations for allowing you know emergency vehicles and everything else to be able to get through the intersection thank

▶ 1:09:43 Michael P. Zwirko: you and you did express interest in trying to I know we're just discussing polls but maybe enhance the project from stages here on out if possible yes as

▶ 1:09:53 Speaker 4: much as we can bring parking back in where we previously thought it would have to come out certainly as much green space as we can fit we do have some big green spaces that are going to result and I know that the mayor's office has been looking at I believe the memorial that's in the middle just reached a hundred year anniversary I think of the death of the gentleman who the memorial is for and I believe they're looking at doing a ceremony when it gets moved across the street to a location where pedestrians can now actually access it and go visit the plaque and the stone and do some sort of a dedication rededication for the hundred anniversary well thank you for that and I know in my

▶ 1:10:31 Michael P. Zwirko: experience working with not only the engineering division but also members of the traffic commission they take great care in the comments and the concerns that they received from the residents this is a project that went through a major vetting process and they're even still responsive after the fact I'm inclined to support this based on the work and the history that they've done and the integrity that they've shown and projects of this nature thank you thank

▶ 1:10:57 Kate Lipper-Garabedian: you Alderman Lipper-Garabedian thank you madam president just one more piece to add to to second aldermen's work those points I'm also planning to support this and this project also went through the complete streets working group so I'm a member of that as a Representatives for birth to five but I know there's an alderman Representatives there's a Representatives from the police a Representatives from the schools from the pet bike from your office I may be

▶ 1:11:25 Speaker 4: missing any other members mass in motion that's right the mayor's office so it's

▶ 1:11:31 Kate Lipper-Garabedian: Representatives group that brings forward a bunch of different perspectives and and we then retained this firm to do a very careful study it sounds like the traffic Commission also has been involved so there have been multiple stages in the design of this and I'm very pleased that you're still receptive to additional considerations and I think I just look forward to seeing this continue to improve before full implementation thank you one last thing

▶ 1:12:06 Robert A. Boisselle: you said you've been reviewing some of this material in the plans and you you were going to add how many new parking spaces it's since it's still in the

▶ 1:12:16 Speaker 4: final design phase with the engineers I don't know exactly how many but I know where they will be added which is right in front of 160 green so if you look at the map so the spaces that we're losing were basically the entire frontage of 160 and 150 green and then two spaces across the street um at a minimum i think we'll be able to add in a couple of the spaces back that are right in front of 160 just beyond the natural food store on the south side of green street on the south side of green street yes the parking we were losing the parking in front of the natural food store was to remain and then it was the spaces after that in front of 160 green that's where they were going to start being eliminated but we should be able to add some of those back in we don't see so much of an issue with someone pulling over in parking on that approach to the roundabout it's that we really can't have people pulling in and out parking in the roundabout because that becomes a safety hazard okay thank you very much thank you

▶ 1:13:16 Jennifer L. Lemmerman: any further comments okay well since we are all taking some leniencies this evening if i might take one moment as the ward alderman for this area and just mention that there has been a lengthy process as I mentioned around this the engineers office has been incredibly responsive and willing to go out and stand on the street with residents and people who have been concerned this has gone through the complete streets project it's gone through multiple neighborhood meetings I have reiterated as have many the deep concern with parking as the engineer has mentioned this is being taken into consideration this is a dangerous intersection as it stands and the complete streets project goal is to change that there's some businesses in town particularly a grocery store where walkability is a little bit more moot because you have an armful of groceries you might need your car and it's important that people are able to do that and I respect the engineers office promise to look into that and we'll support this as well

▶ 1:14:12 Peter D. Mortimer: alderman Mortimer I am concerned with the points I made before but from the comments I've heard subsequently I do have an open mind and I can't change my mind and one of the major bulwarks in my contemplation of any issue is what the ward alderman says and it's your ward and you made your comment so I'm inclined to reconsider my previous position thank you thank you what is the

▶ 1:14:40 Jennifer L. Lemmerman: will of the committee motion recommend second the motion to recommend made by Alderman Swirko second by Alderman Letter-Garrett Bedian on discussion all in favor aye any opposed opposed one opposed it passes we have a motion to adjourn or recess so that we may return to the Appropriations Committee meeting second we have a motion made by Alderman Mortimer second by Alderman Boisselle all in favor aye opposed we are in recess