ORDER-2020-75 : Authorizing a Bond in the Amount of $1,425,471 to pay costs of purchasing and equipping an aerial ladder truck for the use of the Fire Department.

Transcript (~55 min @ 42:14)

Speakers identified by voice; unnamed voices are numbered within this recording. Auto-caption text — verify against the video.

▶ 42:08 Christopher Cinella: to recommend by councilor Tramontozzi seconded by councilor mcmaster all those in favor aye any opposed hearing none the motion passes for a recommendation to the full board thanks very much thank you appreciate it our next order is order number 2020-75 authorizing a bond in the amount of 1,425,471 to pay the cost of purchasing and equipping an aerial ladder truck for the use of the fire department. And just a reminder, the rules are still under suspension and we have Chief Kalina with us tonight if you want to. Good evening. Good evening. A prepared statement.

▶ 43:09 Speaker 4: Those of you that don't know, my name is Ed Kalina. I'm the fire chief for the city

▶ 43:14 Speaker 4: And I respectfully request adoption of this order regarding the purchase of a new ladder truck, also known as a aerial truck.

▶ 43:25 Speaker 4: The purchase of this truck is desperately needed to replace our current ladder, which is 13 years old.

▶ 43:32 Speaker 4: The ladder, a ladder truck for the city is a very critical piece of equipment used to remove trap occupants windows or roofs used by members to ascend to the roofs rooftops and upper floor windows to ventilate the structures in buildings during

▶ 43:47 Speaker 4: structure fires it's also carries extrication tools the airbags bottles a variety of ground ladders of assorted sizes it's pretty much just a big toolbox but it's critical to our operation replacing our ladder now is critical due to the fact that we've had to place it out of service many times for mechanical issues over the past few years and it's currently up in the shop now for multiple issues however was noted that Thorp some corrosion developing on the frame of the truck we placed in the 2007 ladder truck which far exceeds its usefulness as a frontline piece of firefighting apparatus is extremely critical at this time the truck is tired and becoming

▶ 44:42 Speaker 4: unreliable and spending more time in the shop the National Fire Protection Agency the NFPA recommends frontline apparatus being serviced 10 to 12 years and then then move it into the reserves the men and the women of the department deserve to ride on operate and work with safe equipment so that they can provide as they always do their finest quality of service in a safe and efficient manner the purchasing of this new ladder truck will also well not only improve our operation efficiency it'll be a great asset to the city for the next decade plus I appreciate your consideration and hope you support this order happy to answer any questions that you may have Thank You counselor Tramontozzi Thank You

▶ 45:29 John N. Tramontozzi: Mr. Chairman, so as you know, public safety is one of the most important priorities for myself and as I feel for the city. This aerial ladder truck is indeed a critical piece of equipment for the department. By the way, how many aerial ladder trucks do we have?

▶ 45:52 Speaker 4: We own two.

▶ 45:52 John N. Tramontozzi: Two. And is this one the oldest of the two?

▶ 45:56 Speaker 4: No, this is the youngest of the two.

▶ 45:58 John N. Tramontozzi: what happened how come such i know you said it's 10 to 12 years is the average life is there was anything in particular about this particular truck that uh deteriorated quicker than the others

▶ 46:13 Speaker 4: no the truck runs hard in the city you know Thorp a lot of responses training we're constantly out moving about it's just the wear and tear of a truck

▶ 46:24 John N. Tramontozzi: what would happen with them with this where we replace it do we get any do we sell it we junk it do we get anything for it I would like to keep it as a

▶ 46:33 Speaker 4: reserve because it still has a useful though not as a front line and replace our 25 year old ladder truck which is the e1 so the older one is 25 years old

▶ 46:52 John N. Tramontozzi: That's not used as a front line. This one here is a 13 year old one is the front line one.

▶ 46:58 Speaker 4: That's correct.

▶ 47:00 John N. Tramontozzi: And then it's funny that a 25 year old one is probably in better condition than this one, maybe.

▶ 47:07 Speaker 4: No. No? We've spent countless tens of thousands of dollars keeping it afloat. But again, it's 25 years old and Thorp problems with that as well.

▶ 47:18 John N. Tramontozzi: The amount that we're looking for, I suspect putting the cop before the horse, this isn't being put out to bid yet because we don't have the funding source for it, but do you anticipate that this is the amount that's going to be required to purchase such a piece of equipment? It's a lot of money. That's why I'm- Extremely- Is that what they go for? Have you shopped around? Do you know- That's what the truck is going for with equipment.

▶ 47:41 Speaker 4: Equipment is aging as well. It's a truck and equipment. equipment is aging as well so it's a truck and equipment I don't I don't

▶ 47:47 John N. Tramontozzi: imagine Thorp many companies that sell these type of equipment Thorp two to

▶ 47:54 Speaker 4: two or three manufacturers that make tractor-drawn aerials so Melrose is a tight condensed city so navigating around is it's challenging especially in

▶ 48:06 John N. Tramontozzi: the winter time we would obviously they'd be put this off the bid when that time comes to get the best price and the best quality. I have some questions about the funding source. I guess that would be directed to Mr. DelaRusso, if you want to come forward.

▶ 48:28 Speaker 5: Good evening.

▶ 48:30 Speaker 6: Good evening, everyone.

▶ 48:32 John N. Tramontozzi: Obviously, this is a capital investment, so this isn't coming from our general budget, city budget. in order to purchase a piece of equipment like this you have to go through the bonding route which means borrowing money could you could you tell us the process and how that is accomplished

▶ 48:54 Speaker 6: uh yes i can and if i may um i'd like to just pass out a handout briefly which i think we're going to be able to reference during the conversation all right should be one

▶ 49:36 Speaker 6: for everyone please if i have one too thank you thank you um first and foremost i believe you all should have an amortization schedule that looks like this one page that says ladder truck equipment 1 million 425 471 should be in your packet no this separately besides outside of what I just gave you oh okay yes you also through the chair should have the long order format which was this page identifying the language that provided by bond counsel for the truck if you don't have that I can make that

▶ 50:22 Christopher Cinella: available right now I don't see I have that okay it's attached to the water all

▶ 50:26 Speaker 5: All right, thank you.

▶ 50:26 Speaker 6: So, those two items, we always put in any request to do any bonding. But we also provide and always strive to keep up to date, which is what I just passed out, which I'll take a moment, if I may. Some have seen it, I think, on the council. Others have not. I think it goes directly to your question, Mr. Tramontozzi, outside of the mechanics of actually going to the market, which the treasurer-collector can speak to afterwards. But what we have here in Melrose is a 30-year debt management program. It's been here and in existence since I actually was part of its development back in the early 90s and what this shows you in the very front sheet you'll see two bars one is the gray bar on the bottom that's debt that's already been issued and the dock bar on top of it that's called projected debt that's debt that is in the queue to be issued or to be considered by the council in that black bar is the ladder and a number of other capital projects that the administration is working on now. But this is everything that we know of to date that we are considering going to fund through a bond through this chamber at some point over the next, I would suggest, within two years.

▶ 52:18 Speaker 6: But if we turn to that page here, What this shows you, and the numbers will demonstrate it, is that approximately 75%, actually it's more than that, of our debt is paid off within ten years. The number right now is 78.2% of the city's debt. It's a position that we strive to hold. We provide this model that we've developed for the community. It strives to hold no more than 5%, no more than 5% of the city's operating budget in debt. So that we never balance the books or fund items that go on the credit card and that we could actually cause tremendous stress to the operating budget both on the school side and the city. And what this model provides us is also the capacity in the out years as you can see as you proceed through the model. tremendous capacity so that no matter what administration is in office with the needs of the community on a capital basis can be responsibly funded food debt responsibly that's not the same I'll say approach that a lot of other communities use we use it we always have 5% is a phenomenal number we've held it for years um it's something that i'm very proud of and i'm proud of the boards and the councils that have worked to literally to make that happen and it provides us an opportunity to always always have capacity to address our needs on a capital basis without jeopardizing the sensitive operating budget of the city one of the things we always um come back to is that we really are a bedroom community 95% plus residential we're not going to see Amazon coming to town so in that sense we realize we're not going to have a new growth of large capacity just based on our demographics so what the model does the model accepts that premise and we live within our means and by doing that the council this council the council after you the council before you always had confidence that they were doing the right thing for the community and they weren't putting the community in harm of any kind to back that up if you take a look at the last bond rate in this past October from Standard & Poor's it's dated October 17th 2019 I think everyone if you haven't had a chance to look at it it's out there if you like I'll give you a copy to send me an email I'd be happy to provide it with you but if you take a look at this report because this community has a double a plus rating which is one step away from Triple A one step away from Triple A and if you go right into and for the purposes this evening just I just want to highlight with what I think is sort of what we are embracing this evening

▶ 55:30 Speaker 6: taking one more debt for the community if in fact the council approves this order under the section it says strong debt and contingent liability profile this was a standard and poor's rating agency and it reads as follows in our view Melrose is debt and contingent liability profile is strong total Total governmental fund debt service is 5.4 percent of total governmental fund expenditures and net direct debt is 53.4 percent of total government fund revenue. Overall, net debt is low at 1 percent of market value and approximately 78.2 percent of the direct debt is scheduled to be repaid within 10 years, which are in our view positive credit factors. So by having a positive debt structure, and debt is actually good, let me qualify it. Managed debt is the best, which is what we have in this city. This is the best managed debt because it proves to the outside world, stand and oppose Moody's investor services that we invest in our community and by investing in your community you're retaining value and enhancing value which helps every single citizen you're also minimizing the interest cost when you do go to market you get the very finest rates that the market can bear you'll get a lot of people that actually bid on your bond which we've been talking about earlier that's one of the profiles you can get seven eight or nine bidders that's phenomenal people that will be within very thin margins just to secure a note for Melrose because Thorp so much confidence in this community so it's really a very proud thing to know and to have we often don't talk about it but it's something that we it's done intentionally and we strive to keep it just like this you'll never get a request for debt in front of this council that doesn't have this and also if I'd like to turn to the first page

▶ 57:48 Speaker 6: right after it and if you take a look briefly in the Thorp a number of columns Thorp five columns and if you take a look in under 2020 it has the net debt the amount that this act city was actually committed to fiscal 20 the year that we're in three point three million plus then it's a five percent limit it that's the limit five percent of our budget which is the maximum we would commit to debt for the fiscal year Thorp our projected budget the budget we're living in now for 20 and that's 3.91 percent that if you check that number on the far right it goes 3.91 3.62 right down to 2.73 after 10 years 2029 that's how the model works in the very next page It demonstrates to you the capacity in the far right column each year that you could have taken on more debt service should the community have desired to do that. So if you look at the first number, it's 947,523, 1.2 million, and it goes on from there to 2.5, 2029. So it always provides you assurance that by supporting a note, the anticipated debt of the community is being projected and it's also being serviced in such a way that you're not overextending. We also use very, very conservative rates for interest. The Treasury can speak to that if you'd like to this evening, which makes it a further additional assurance that these figures will be held and that they're going to be actually less come in less than what we anticipate but that's that's the nature of how this model is is developed we work with our certifying bank for southwest hilltop securities hand in hand with this model it's a model that we jointly have together and through them and through us we're able to you know keep the city's debt portfolio in a position that we can actually talk about doing three or four projects right now prior to july 1st so it's a it's a good um opportunity to have that conversation

▶ 1:00:06 John N. Tramontozzi: tonight is this is this particular uh debt service for fiscal year 21. great question

▶ 1:00:21 Speaker 6: i should have that schedule for that yep for the yes for the ladder truck we're looking at a period um the first debt service payment will be due 6 15 actually 23 a principal and interest of over 35 000. um it's typically a eight years bond two years of temporary debt service typically we try to do and the treasurer can speak to this if we care to is we try to go out on a temporary basis for a year or two depending on the other bonds or the notes that are that we're considering so that when when we are able to go to market which would be when you actually turn this stock bar to the lighter gray which meant we went to market we actually bonded it not not considering taking on that debt then we would turn that darker bar into gray so we typically do a couple of years of temporary interest we try to minimize the issuance cost so instead of it doing one two three times we try to do it on a collective basis if possible so we're not paying for the same I'll say service more than once if we don't have to so that even that part of it is thought out so it's it's a great question so is this

▶ 1:01:40 John N. Tramontozzi: is this particular bond for the lot of truck the first one that we will be issuing for that fiscal year Thorp actually two of the notes that we're

▶ 1:01:48 Speaker 6: considering one would be the salt shed that's also before you as well as the Memorial Hall renovations and we could speak to those two at that time together

▶ 1:02:01 John N. Tramontozzi: but yep considering those three because this is if you 1 million for and it's approximately I'm gonna guess it's about one third of our five percent limit so So the other bonding proposals would, Mr. Flavin, why don't you come forward.

▶ 1:02:20 John N. Tramontozzi: I'm a dummy when it comes to this stuff, so we're going to have to speak in dummy terms.

▶ 1:02:26 Speaker 3: 5% is your amortization, your payments off the debt schedule, certain things. It has nothing to do with the 1.4. What you owe on an annual basis is the piece that you're looking at, that first year. On the right side you'll see, what, 80, I don't know the number.

▶ 1:02:45 Speaker 3: the principal or 35 35 right so that's that's minuscule against them they wouldn't have that

▶ 1:02:48 John N. Tramontozzi: yeah so so you calculate the what the 35 the payment uh principal interest towards what you

▶ 1:02:56 Speaker 3: consider to be the five percent and again you all i mean you're all new to this we've been doing it a while and this yeah this is a process and these are these are estimates these are educated guesses that we've done numbers of a number of years in this situation he's going to order the truck it might take two years to get here we aren't borrowing a dime until we get that if we need some money we go out and do short-term interest debts short-term interest things where they're

▶ 1:03:24 Speaker 3: giving the money away under one percent so we usually shave a couple of years off we can do up to three before we have to make a principal payment so we take advantage of those short-term interest rates blast them out and do this for the purposes of this presentation you're getting amortization schedules at five percent that's a whole that's a whole other kettle of fish what you have to understand about muni bonds is they are sold for their tax exempt basis so when we go sell this bond 1.4 million and we go to the actual street what the the underwriters usually do is give us a slug of money and they you know like 600 they might give you i mean the last time we did the school modules we got 700 000 we took that 700 000 and reduced the amount of the issuance so although the authorization authorization might have been 5.650 we've only borrowed like 5-1 or 5-2 and we split it out among the other things in that situation so this is not a black and white situation it's a bit arcane and it grows over time you know you figure it out over time that's why why they sit me in the seat I sit in and why I work with professionals at First Southwest and Bond Council. So I don't know if that makes it any clearer.

▶ 1:04:36 John N. Tramontozzi: Well, the debt service schedule that we have here is an estimate, really.

▶ 1:04:40 Speaker 3: They all are.

▶ 1:04:41 John N. Tramontozzi: Right, because one thing I looked at was it's a coupon, 5%. I mean, we can borrow money at 1, 2%.

▶ 1:04:52 Speaker 3: they do is they give us that slug of money and then they charge they put a coupon on it of five percent that we pay back down the line so it makes it more attractive to the guy trying not to pay taxes on his interest people go out and buy these for the interest-free the tax-free income but are

▶ 1:05:08 John N. Tramontozzi: we but did we actually paying five percent on the borrowed money we will but we're going to get that

▶ 1:05:16 Speaker 3: slug of money and reduce it up the front the premium band bond premium they give you a premium up front so that they can charge that image that money down the thing and then sell it on the

▶ 1:05:24 John N. Tramontozzi: street well um when they sell it on the street is it it's at four and a half or five percent

▶ 1:05:29 Speaker 3: and these are restaurants and typically we're seeing three and a half or four now i was going

▶ 1:05:34 John N. Tramontozzi: to say five five seems a little high that might that made the glory rate maybe less than that i'm going to stay with what we've done for years right exactly so when we go out to to bid it and get it it may be less than the five percent that we made i mean today who knows it might be higher

▶ 1:05:53 Speaker 3: let's hope not no but i'm not paid to prognosticate i'm paid to just execute and this

▶ 1:06:00 John N. Tramontozzi: is how we execute them this is what we do right and in in the reality is too we would only go and bond what the what we uh actually need so if it turns out that we can get this lot of truck for correct less than a million force it's just a million that's all we're not going to be bound by by this 1 million for a general obligation bond right now just what I know that I just want to make it clear that this is not set in stone and we won't know that necessarily until it's time to actually make that purchase we put it out the bid but but it but it's a lot of money we know it's Thorp going to be a lot of money, but as Pat said, we do have some debt that's coming offline- All the time. All the time. And we could replace it with some other debt.

▶ 1:06:47 Speaker 5: Exactly. Exactly. Okay. Good. Well, thank you.

▶ 1:06:51 Speaker 1: Great point. I'll open it up to others who might have questions.

▶ 1:06:53 Jen Grigoraitis: President Grigoraitis? Thank you. Thank you all for being here. At first, I just wanted to thank Mr. Flavin for your service to the City of Melrose. My understanding is you'll be retiring and that you've been with us since 2006. Thank you for all that you've done. Thank you. and i have i think questions for both the chief and for mr delarusso chief can you talk a little bit about i'm assuming Thorp been advances in aerial ladder truck technology since 2007 will there be any additional features on this vehicle that will enhance our ability to respond to fires

▶ 1:07:26 Speaker 4: and or enhance the safety of our crews the truck the manufacturing of the trucks uh the electrical harnesses are a lot better today than they were 13 years ago when we purchased our last one so the current truck we have an onboard hydraulic generator that produces power and now on the new

▶ 1:07:46 Speaker 4: trucks they can just run right off the power of the tractor would need the additional so

▶ 1:07:53 Speaker 4: that would provide more space for more equipment because the truck is the truck size is the truck

▶ 1:07:56 Jen Grigoraitis: size and where will this truck be housed which station right here at center house and then for mr delarusso for um as you reference Thorp a couple bonds that are currently before this committee are those the anticipated costs of those bonds included in these projection numbers

▶ 1:08:13 Speaker 6: you're absolutely correct and that's a great question these projection numbers right here that are before you with this that again the doc that includes the ladder it includes the salt shed it includes memorial hall it includes the BB an estimate for the BB and it also includes money ten million dollars for the library project if that is actually embraced by the community those are the projects that we have in the queue that we're anticipating may become commitments to the community again through the council's approval and it's also one other that we're contemplating which would be another road bond come the fall to continue the process that we've had in the past and once that gets formulated and again moving it to the council at the right time but that's exactly correct so we are we are putting in here everything so that by approving this you're not discounting the other projects that i just brought up and addressed and everyone can see black and white anticipated costs and in the run out and it should always flow that way by design it should always flow down

▶ 1:09:29 Speaker 6: thank you thank you yep thank you great question that was a great question thank you mr chair

▶ 1:09:35 Robb Stewart: thank you for being here tonight um i'd like to come back to uh the the fleet of trucks that you have uh available and with this addition because it's not a replacement it sounds like it's more of an addition can you talk about the the total number of trucks that we have available uh in

▶ 1:09:56 Speaker 4: morose well just a correction it would be uh would be getting rid of the oldest ladder truck so we'd

▶ 1:10:01 Robb Stewart: still maintain the current fleet okay so the 25 year old truck you're you're going to just sell it off okay is there uh specific plans of selling is is that projected in all this do we have a disposal cost or is that something like in more tbd i don't have a disposal cost i i actually

▶ 1:10:14 Speaker 4: wouldn't even know what what the market would be if i truck that old okay what's timing for that

▶ 1:10:21 Robb Stewart: what are you thinking in terms of getting rid of that timing wise well for the construction

▶ 1:10:28 Speaker 4: of a new truck once uh it goes out and gets approved and we decide currently today we're looking at 333 working days all right for manufacturing so you're looking at about a

▶ 1:10:45 Robb Stewart: year and a half sure before delivery sure okay okay that that's a lot more clear because when i when i first heard it sounded like you're going to maintain three ladder trucks but that's not

▶ 1:10:56 Robb Stewart: the case okay and you answer a lot of questions about the bonding it because the five percent was it sort of stuck out like a sore thumb but that really is something that will be what the market will bear as as we get down to when we

▶ 1:11:15 Speaker 3: issue right yeah i mean Thorp the part i left out i mean they put the coupons out there and then

▶ 1:11:24 Speaker 3: they always vary up to four and a half five percent but when we go to market we get typically

▶ 1:11:31 Speaker 3: get six to eight bids um go on the street and we we have to take what's called the true interest cost so they take that van bond premium and they apply it into the into the numbers and come up with the true interest cost and usually the bids are within 20 or 30 basis points of each other and that's how they get to buy it is buying through that coupon sure and then when i retire you know six months and i want to put some money away and have tax-free interest i'll buy some melrose municipal bonds there you go

▶ 1:12:06 Speaker 7: that's very helpful that's very helpful um that's all thank you sir thank you very much

▶ 1:12:14 Mark Garipay: counselor a lot of my questions have been answered but uh i do have a couple uh with regards to the ladder truck that we're going to be taking offline as it's going to be more or less a spare truck it won't be used every day or that's correct um and now that it's a year and a half out my question was going to be is there any investment that we're going to need to put into that to keep that up and running structurally or you had mentioned that the current current ladder truck has got some potential structural issues and that's correct and what we do is

▶ 1:12:48 Speaker 4: preventive maintenance we'll deal with the issues as they arise you know exhaust things like that

▶ 1:12:54 Speaker 4: oil changes greasings so but when it's not running every day the preventive maintenance is performed on engine hours so the more the engine operates the more you have to have the PM to prevent the major problems some of you may may not

▶ 1:13:17 Speaker 4: know that the engine was basically blown and it costs a significant amount of money to get that piece back into service plus not being able to use it

▶ 1:13:29 Speaker 4: for three months so you know a good preventive maintenance program would prevent those types of things so that's why you need to have a good solid backup

▶ 1:13:39 Speaker 4: not for an everyday running because it's old but it can run in a short term with

▶ 1:13:44 Mark Garipay: this type of ladder truck it's it's two piece get the power and you get the ladder that's correct useful life the same on both components that sometimes the power the tractor so to speak might have a you a lesser useful life than the than the ladder another component does it if it's anyone ever looked at maybe doing one component of the other or it's a useful life on both components the

▶ 1:14:11 Speaker 4: same well we've looked at that but so the tractor the tractor part of the truck is what carries the hundred feet of hydraulically driven aerial and it

▶ 1:14:24 Speaker 4: also carries a large amount about a hundred and seventy feet of ground ladders of assorted sizes plus all the equipment Thorp a lot of stress on the

▶ 1:14:34 Speaker 4: rear axles but the the aerial itself has to be stress tested every every year and Thorp a lot of when you're operating and moving it Thorp a lot of twisting

▶ 1:14:48 Speaker 4: and talking so um when they find weaknesses that you know you then you can't operate it it has to

▶ 1:14:56 Speaker 4: be fixed so that's that's some of the minor problems that were developed we found now with the latter one it's in the shop about it's going to be about a month while those are getting fixed so it can have be safe for the men and women to operate on it

▶ 1:15:08 Mark Garipay: the reason why i asked that i was just trying to see if you could spread out the fleet aging because we're going to have two two pieces of apparatus coming up and in 10 years that's going to be closer to two and a half two and a half million dollars so if you can spread it out or age it out i was just trying to see maybe the hit down the road maybe less that's correct but the

▶ 1:15:28 Speaker 4: two pieces that we're seeking uh this year the two different types one's a pumper truck and the other

▶ 1:15:37 Mark Garipay: one's a hero um with with regards to the the truck the main truck that's going to be a spear the only place it it fits we all know is in in main street correct where um what do you think you're going to be able to store that uh when the time comes well if you'd like to give me a

▶ 1:16:00 Speaker 4: new fire station that'd be i'd find a spot for it but uh i have some ideas uh possibly tenting it on one of the outside station properties

▶ 1:16:09 Speaker 4: or actually building a garage, like a steel structure to house it, things along that line. But we have about a year and a half to figure out some sort of resolution to that.

▶ 1:16:21 Mark Garipay: I just have one question for Patrick. I think we know the answer to this, but if we're looking at the debt service on the ladder truck, you said everything's included in your projections. So, in 2024, we have an annual debt service of 217,982, correct?

▶ 1:16:49 Speaker 6: Yeah. I believe the first principle will be due on the ladder in fiscal 24. Twenty-

▶ 1:16:54 Speaker 3: Two years of-

▶ 1:16:55 Speaker 6: Twenty-

▶ 1:16:58 Mark Garipay: 186 and 31, 875 for-

▶ 1:17:02 Speaker 6: The 214, 875? No, the one above it. And then the one above it, 217, 982, 78.

▶ 1:17:08 Mark Garipay: Yeah, so take the 217-982, and that's included in the variance for that fiscal year on chart 2, correct? So we still have $1.229 million that you could go out and do other projects with.

▶ 1:17:27 Mark Garipay: In the variance, you have a, you have-

▶ 1:17:28 Speaker 6: And you're looking at 24, what, are you on the second page? You have to be careful with it, because this stuff won't come online.

▶ 1:17:37 Speaker 3: Because this stuff won't come online, you see it drops off to $898,000 and all this other new stuff comes online, so if you go spend $1.2 in 2021, you're going to be $400,000 short two years from now. You're going to knock that number way down.

▶ 1:17:55 Speaker 3: That's the number for that one year. If you go authorize something for 5, 10, or 15 years, whatever you pull out of that, it

▶ 1:18:09 Speaker 6: So I think the answer to your question would be the layering, what we try to do again is that we layer as debt rolls off that we would look to put a debt comparable in that sense so that you're not creating a higher level. So debt would be consistently rolling off and then you come up, replace, keep it constant. BUT AS IT ROLLS OFF, THAT GIVES US THE OPPORTUNITY TO EMBRACE THIS NOTE.

▶ 1:18:36 Mark Garipay: THE VARIANCE IS KIND OF THE GAP THAT IN FAIRY WE WOULD HAVE AVAILABLE IN FAIRY, YEAH. FOR ONE YEAR. FOR ONE YEAR, CORRECT. SO REALLY YOU'VE GOT TO LOOK THREE YEARS OUT, SO WE'RE LOOKING AT ABOUT EIGHT OR NINE HUNDRED THOUSAND, SO ON AND ON.

▶ 1:18:51 Speaker 3: OKAY. ALL RIGHT.

▶ 1:18:53 Speaker 1: THANK YOU. COUNSELOR McMASTER.

▶ 1:18:54 Shawn M. MacMaster: THANK YOU, MR. CHAIRMAN. THANK YOU ALL FOR BEING HERE. THANK YOU. CHIEF, JUST A FEW QUESTIONS FOR YOU. Will this vehicle be custom built? Yes. And I think that's an important point for the public to understand, considering that the request is to authorize a bond in the amount of over $1.4 million. But to put that in context, an engine would probably be around 700 to 750,000, is that fair to say? That's correct. Okay, and this is a much larger vehicle that has a greater capacity.

▶ 1:19:28 Shawn M. MacMaster: Do we have the current capacity, Chief, to store the truck that you have in mind at the Main Street station, considering the space there and other vehicle-related needs?

▶ 1:19:42 Speaker 4: The space at headquarters is tight. Anybody that's been there realizes that. But the truck would be specced out and engineered to fit into the station.

▶ 1:19:54 Shawn M. MacMaster: So I think that's a good preface to the following question, Chief. Is there any trepidation about moving forward on this particular purchase for the truck that you have in mind with the uncertainty of our public safety buildings?

▶ 1:20:13 Speaker 4: Obviously, I would like wider doors, but I don't have any concerns because it would be spec'd out pretty much identical to the current specs of that truck.

▶ 1:20:23 Shawn M. MacMaster: So, by moving forward on this purchase, and this goes back, I think, to what the President alluded to, are we going to be missing out on a future opportunity to have the structural features to this apparatus that may not be conducive to the current environment at Main street but that might be conducive at um a larger building beyond the doors that you referenced is there anything else that we could potentially have on a ladder truck beyond the doors um that in an ideal world we could have if the the space um was different right now

▶ 1:21:08 Speaker 4: yes you would have be able to have the truck designed to accommodate more cabinetry to put more equipment on the truck could be higher not so much wider and we actually wouldn't want to go up that much more in height anyways because we have the uh the trestle over at uh on uh

▶ 1:21:32 Speaker 4: morrow street we have to try to get under you know the truck is long um i don't know the exact uh

▶ 1:21:37 Speaker 4: length of it offhand if orlando said she'd tell me because we engineered it for the rotary

▶ 1:21:42 Speaker 4: The roundabout. The roundabout, yes. It's all about the tractor-drawn part of the apparatus, the cab.

▶ 1:22:00 Speaker 4: We would be able to have more, a wider cab, a longer cab. We're kind of restricted that way because of the archway of the station.

▶ 1:22:06 Shawn M. MacMaster: And how does the length of the cab, what, if any, role does the length of the cab play in your ability to respond to...

▶ 1:22:16 Speaker 4: it would be more more room for the members inside the cab so currently like we want to keep our

▶ 1:22:21 Speaker 4: medical bags and everything has to be secured down in the cabinet locked down with webbing so god forbid there was an accident equipment doesn't fly and injure the the members on the piece so anytime you're building our cabinetry then you're taking away riding positions

▶ 1:22:43 Speaker 4: and things like that so Thorp a Thorp a what they call a clean cab concept now where we're not putting our scarf bottles inside the cab because we're trying to uh reduce the carcinogens that

▶ 1:22:55 Speaker 4: the members being exposed to carcinogens so when you take the the bottles out of the cab the packs that we wear where do you put them so we need more space so if you had a bigger cab

▶ 1:23:05 Speaker 4: you could build in a in a closed cabinet to be to get the equipment out from the

▶ 1:23:13 Speaker 4: exterior so yeah I mean I think it presents a dilemma because we obviously

▶ 1:23:22 Shawn M. MacMaster: want our firefighters to be to be comfortable and to be safe and to have proper storage space but at the same time this is something that's needed it's something that I know I raised with the prior administration and I appreciate this being one of the first requests made by the current administration because it's it's really long overdue and i'm inclined to support it but again just i think it's compounded by that uncertainty of not knowing the future of our you know of our public safety buildings and that's something that we've all inherited it's something that the current mayor has inherited and it presents no easy answer Thorp no easy Thorp no easy solution to this but Thorp no doubt in my mind that firefighters deserve more than they currently have that takes me to the question of a replacement plan as you referenced that it's standard for a ladder truck to have a service replacement plan after or for to be taken out of service after 10 to 12 years but typically there there would be or there should be some sort of uh a replacement plan do we currently have an apparatus replacement plan uh in the city no has there ever been an

▶ 1:24:41 Speaker 4: apparatus replacement plan uh not that i'm aware of i mean chief o'brien um had scratched at it but um you know these are big ticket items and it's it it all depends on the uh i guess it would depend

▶ 1:25:00 Speaker 4: on the sustainability of being able to afford all of it so we always try to get a little bit more out of it but Thorp Thorp a cost risk to that too so one of the things to think about chief

▶ 1:25:05 Shawn M. MacMaster: because i don't think it has to be codified in an order from from the council or even a directive from the mayor's offices perhaps being you know proactive as still a relatively new chief with a considerable amount of leadership experience having served as captain before now um you know maybe coming up with some sort of uh an apparatus uh you know replacement plan um that would i think maybe prevent us from 15 years from now and who knows how many of us will be here being in the position that prior councils have have found itself in which is last year and the year before i believe the vehicle maintenance line item was about 34 and i know last year you had to come before us and request i think an additional 75 000 or maybe a hundred thousand dollars all of which is needed but i think you know i'm the type of person who tries to look around the corner and think 10 steps ahead i know that is the value that our current mayor shares as well so i think to the extent you with your expertise can provide the tools that maybe help us plan you know moving forward so we don't find ourself and that i think i think that might be helpful

▶ 1:26:23 Paul Brodeur: it's easy to talk about because i can't take credit for it um and it's a baby step towards what you were talking about and that is um last year and the auditor will correct me from if i'm wrong um the council at that time had the wisdom to set aside i think was out of free cash don't $250,000 in free cash as a kind of a capital reserve fund so that the order that we're going to be discussing on Monday around the pumper truck is going to show a $500,000 cost. The cost of the item, as you pointed out earlier, is $750,000, and $250,000 of that is going to come from monies that your predecessors set aside, recognizing that this expense is coming up. Again, it is not a full-term funded capital plan, but it's the beginning of a recognition, again, that started before I got here, that we need to get away from the kind of crisis management purchasing, if you will that has kind of been the historic pattern for some of these big ticket items in the

▶ 1:27:34 Shawn M. MacMaster: past thank you mr mayor and i'm inclined to vote to support this tonight thank you thank you thank

▶ 1:27:41 Leila Migliorelli: you councilman migliarelli um thank you chairman um just a quick question most most of the questions i have um have been answered but um chief kalina just following up on a question that counselor mcmaster had do you have a sense of what the cost difference would be if you were to get the fire truck that you would want if you had the appropriate sized station to house it in

▶ 1:28:01 Speaker 4: it would most likely maybe be a hundred thousand dollars more because it's really just in the the uh the build out of the cab the tractor we can't go too long because we want to be able to

▶ 1:28:20 Speaker 4: navigate around streets but uh you know our ladders here's a reason the ladders lay on their on their beams and it would be better if it was up on a vertical for pulling them out so you have to the members have to struggle a little bit harder to get them out but the reason why they're designed that way is because we have to get the truck in the archway so that extra eight inches i know you visited the station and they back you can see that Thorp not much room for any error

▶ 1:28:50 Speaker 4: YOU KNOW IT TAKES ALL OF IT TO GET IN SO UM BUT THAT'S IT IT'S ALL IN THE DESIGN THE ENGINEERS

▶ 1:28:58 Leila Migliorelli: ARE ACTUALLY FIGURED IT ALL OUT HOW TO GET IT IN AND OUT SAFELY THANK YOU UM A QUESTION FOR MR DELARUSSO UM THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE TONIGHT I THINK UM JUST FOR THE BENEFIT OF THE PUBLIC AND PERHAPS THE COUNCIL I KNOW WE'RE LOOKING HERE AT YOU KNOW A 1.4 MILLION DOLLAR BOND UM GIVEN everything that's going on in the city right now that we're preparing for this crisis i wonder if you could maybe share any thoughts that you might have on how you're preparing financially if we do have to make some sort of emergency commitments to residents you know people who might be disproportionately affected by the covet crisis if you could talk a little bit about that how this that sort of planning is different than this type of planning yeah if i may i'll do the

▶ 1:29:43 Speaker 6: chair Thorp a couple of things um one is that we're we've already directed departments that any expenditures that are related to this to this um matter before us now that we cognizant to document it and to provide us with the details at the um the end of the um event if you want if I can call it that for the sake of because the times where with you know we're out of state emergency if there are any federal state funds that we may be able to get to reimburse us the most difficult thing is that if you wait till the end and then try to go back and recreate with why you spent the money and where it's a lot harder so we're taking we're proactive in that sense we also um have an emergency fund for the community which has over 189 000 in it right now That's also part of an opportunity to help those that become necessary to use those funds. We have free cash that is still uncommitted of just under $3,480,000 between now and July 1st. And as you're aware, we have a rainy day fund of over $2 million. So from my vantage point with the mayor, I think we're very confident that we can take an adverse situation and really have no impact on our day-to-day operation, which is everything. Because we want to continue the continuity of service in the community, and oftentimes it's no different than if you had a reduction in state aid mid-year. You want to always position yourself for that happening in your planning, which is what we do, so that everything happens on Monday that happens on Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday, and you don't see services impacted. That's the number one goal, and it's a great question, and it's something that we're very sensitive to. As I indicated, we've already put policies out. but I also spoke to Rick Stinson just today about products for cleaning, et cetera, because there will be an enhanced expenditure for those items, and we are making provisions to address that cost as we proceed so that everyone's, if you use that term, on the same page. So they minimize the surprises. It's always what you don't know that hurts you, not what you know. And in our position, the more we know and the sooner we know, better we can prepare for it and that's a that's that's our job and so that's what we're doing in the mirror I want to commend the mayor again I think some of the leadership as far as setting these protocols up has been you know truly noteworthy and again it's such an unpredictable situation but thank you

▶ 1:32:43 Paul Brodeur: that's a great question if the council would my I will address it a little bit fuller more fully at the end of the meeting we are keeping an eye on the bottom line to be sure and there are certain impacts that we're going to see in terms in particular loss of rental income through the schools and to Memorial Hall but as mindful as we as we are of that please understand the public should understand that we are making decisions based on what is best for the public health and safety of the community and if we have to take some I I don't want to say financial risks, but that will drive our decisions about spending. We're not going to be profligate spenders by any stretch, but we will do what it takes to keep the community safe.

▶ 1:33:31 Speaker 8: Thank you.

▶ 1:33:31 Speaker 1: Thank you. Any other questions? Councilman Melodin.

▶ 1:33:37 Maya Jamaleddine: Thank you so much for coming today. You've mentioned that the older truck you would like to get rid of. and then you're gonna keep one of the trucks do you know not that we can tell about if we're gonna assume how long do you think it's gonna serve us more well

▶ 1:34:08 Speaker 4: then it gets into yes certainly you know another seven years okay not longer because the NPA standard recommends retiring at 20 years.

▶ 1:34:18 Maya Jamaleddine: So, great, so now that would take me to another question. So if, and I want to, hopefully we have other constituents that are thinking the same way, but I don't know, I had this question, so if we take these two trucks and we sell them, might be very crazy question or thought. sell them wouldn't help us to get, you know, replace it with another truck that can serve us for longer term.

▶ 1:34:56 Speaker 4: When you say sell the two trucks, you're talking the 25-year-old?

▶ 1:35:00 Maya Jamaleddine: So now your plan is to get a new truck, right? But we have two other trucks that are still in-house. If we sell these two trucks and replace them with another truck, is that something that's going to cost us more money?

▶ 1:35:22 Speaker 4: I'm not sure I totally understand the question, but if we sell both ladder trucks, the 1995 truck and the 2007 truck, and we purchase a new truck, and we'll only have one truck, So then when that truck goes down for maintenance or mechanical failure, we will not have a truck to put into place.

▶ 1:35:45 Maya Jamaleddine: No, I'm going to. So and I'm sorry if I'm not explaining it right. I'm going to try my best. So now you're proposing to purchase totally new truck. OK, so that we're done with that. Hopefully we're going to approve it. Now we have two other trucks that your plan is to sell one of them and to keep another one. If we sell these two combined, would that help us to replace it with another one?

▶ 1:36:14 Speaker 8: So we will have two new trucks.

▶ 1:36:16 Speaker 4: Two trucks. Well, yeah, but then you'd be looking at about the same amount of cost. So I don't think you would-

▶ 1:36:21 Speaker 8: It's not gonna, okay.

▶ 1:36:23 Speaker 4: And then you'd have two trucks in or around the same age. So it would be better to try to hold on to the seven truck for a few more years and to get that gap so that you constantly will always have a good good piece of

▶ 1:36:39 Speaker 7: fire apparatus fair to say that the resale value of a fire truck I assume

▶ 1:36:46 Speaker 7: is pretty low in terms of like we tried to flip it after five years a new truck after five years or newer truck it's not a ton of money Thorp a market out

▶ 1:36:54 Speaker 4: there but not not in a population like Melrose got it okay thank you any other

▶ 1:37:05 Speaker 1: questions and what is the will of the committee motion to recommend second

▶ 1:37:08 Christopher Cinella: we have a motion to recommend by councillor Tramontozzi seconded by councillor Garipay all those in favor aye any opposed giving none this motion will move to the full board

▶ 1:37:23 Jen Grigoraitis: thank you thank you very very much next order may I make a motion to ACCEPT THIS DOCUMENT INTO THE RECORD FOR TONIGHT'S MEETING SECOND SECOND SO WE