WR # 31135450 4 Glendale Ave - Joint Pole Installation

Transcript (~25 min @ 1:16:32)

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▶ 1:16:21 Bradley Freeman: Motion to approve Made by council fro Seconded by Councillor Kim Chetty. Any discussion? All in favor? Aye. Aye. Any opposed? The ayes have it. And the motion to approve passes.

▶ 1:16:34 Speaker 11: Thank you. My next one is, uh, to petition a poll in front of 76 Hesseltine Avenue, which would be on the side of four Glendale F This is required, uh, since the pole in front of 76 Haseltine is leaning. And to prevent that from leaning further, we would replace the pole as well as include a pole that would pull it so that it doesn't lean again towards the house in the future. So it's more of a reliability issue.

▶ 1:17:03 Speaker 6: Thank you. Any questions from the council? Councilor? Nagarro?

▶ 1:17:08 Cal Finocchiaro: Sorry, I just have one question. So you're installing two poles. One to keep the other one erect.

▶ 1:17:13 Speaker 11: So one pole is, uh, already there in place. We are just going to replace it since it's in back condition. And then I'm putting another pole on the opposite side to prevent, um, this new pole from leaning again

▶ 1:17:27 Speaker 4: On the episodes of the street,

▶ 1:17:29 Speaker 11: Um, on the side towards the house.

▶ 1:17:32 Speaker 4: I see. Okay. Thank you Chair.

▶ 1:17:35 Bradley Freeman: Any other questions? Is there anyone here from the public who'd like to speak on this petition? Please come up and approach the table.

▶ 1:17:48 Speaker 1: So Eric mad you lose at 79? I live at 76 and I've complained about this pole for like 10 years and that's when I live on the corner where the pole is. Uh, so one question I have is you're gonna replace the pole. Why are you putting another pole? If

▶ 1:18:03 Bradley Freeman: You wanna sit, sit down. So the microphone's gonna pick up your voice.

▶ 1:18:09 Speaker 1: So if you put a new pole there, wouldn't that take care of it? The situation? Why do you have to put another pole with a guy? Wire over to it

▶ 1:18:16 Speaker 11: Over with time it would start leaning again.

▶ 1:18:18 Speaker 1: I think it's just a defect of old pole that's, that's been there forever. Uh, so your, your proposal is to put another pole next To it. Pass these around? Yeah. Can I see? So just for framework, uh, two things and then I'll pass back to Roland. This is the first picture here is Roland's house. He's at seven six. I'm across the street. And I'm not sure if that's how you explained it, but they would actually put the pole in front of my house on the other side of the street. Oh, you can pass it around because It's actually on the frontage of for Glendale, which is right next to his driveway. Yes. Which I will show, but Correct. His driveway is right here. So this is for Glendale that's on a corner. The corner is Hessel time. So it really has nothing to do with Glendale, right? Right. It's on the frontage of, for Glendale, which Is, so this is my next door neighbor across the street from me. And this is my house. And so what they're proposing is replacing the pole that you can see is clearly slanted at his house that he's been rightfully complaining about for years to get it resolved. And they wanna put a pole on the opposite side of the street. And then they want to put, I believe it's called a guy wire that holds it, which we can get into. But essentially we're gonna create an enormous patient safety risk. A patient, sorry, I work in healthcare, use the same patient safety. We're gonna, we're gonna, I'm gonna That's awesome. Seriously hurt a child because I can't even see outta my driveway. And when I should, my view will be like with a telephone pole in front of it. I, the city is gonna be liable for a child and my life is gonna be ruined from hitting a child. This is unacceptable. The tar man's school is a block away. Kids come up and down out street. I Can't tell you in This The pole I've superimposed. So this is my house and the picture right next to it when I pass it around, shows where they're putting a pole. The other question? Yeah. And then they're gonna have a guy wire coming down off of that to Sidewalk, see my picture backing up. And then the pole, they literally can't see outta my, I can't, I have a brand new car that has automatic braking. I can't tell you how often it goes off because I can't see people walking. And I two young drivers, a 21-year-old and an 18-year-old, and I teach 'em to go extremely slow. I can't tell you how many times people walking their dogs. And in the summer, how many kids, horse man is one block from our house. How many kids are Dr. Taking their bikes home on the street? I am going to hit a child if you approve this. This is unacceptable. Mm-hmm.

▶ 1:20:53 Bradley Freeman: Thank you. Do you have any more comments before we turn it back over to Yeah,

▶ 1:20:56 Speaker 1: I'd like to have more detail what they're proposing because they also mentioned then notice of Stub Poll. So they doubling up my pole on my side. You don't, it says stub pole on there. So what's happening?

▶ 1:21:06 Bradley Freeman: We can just have your comments. Then we'll have DW National Grid respond to them. Okay.

▶ 1:21:10 Speaker 1: So that's one question. And then how do you propose to connect the two poles across the street? Is it gonna be a steel cable at X feet across the elevated across the street. And then are you gonna have a guy wire going down to the pavement? 'cause there's an X on the painted on the sidewalk. So is that gonna be on the sidewalk? Um, or is it gonna be in the person's yard at Fort Glendale? No, it's just be on the sidewalk. So how do people, how do you propose people to walk down the street without tripping on that? It's gonna be coming down at an angle like this? No, it won't. Its the

▶ 1:21:38 Bradley Freeman: Sidewalk. Can, I'm just gonna have national grid. Can you respond after? Okay.

▶ 1:21:41 Speaker 1: Sorry. So that we just didn't have a diagram of anything of how this was gonna take place. Oh, I think they wanna see on the other side, and I'll just say from my standpoint, in addition to the safety, which is paramount and my biggest concern, it's devaluing our properties. Like when you do the, the buddy poles, it looks atrocious. You've seen them around. You see 'em in different cities, it looks terrible. We have an a very nice community. It looks, it's devaluing our properties. And then to put another pole on the other side of the street to hold it up. And frankly this is not your fault, but they've also, a wire came down a year ago. No one has come back. Even though I called and they have a warning sign, it's like, you know, because it's Draped it's Draping longer because it was draping, but no one even bothered to take it away. It, it's making our community look. And one, Chris, one other point too, there's no other poles on this whole side of the street. This would be the, all the poles going down. Hessel Tyner on my side. Not on your side. Yeah. So this would be the only thing. And it's only a makeshift, I think it's a makeshift means to hold this pole up or the, the new pole

▶ 1:22:51 Speaker 6: Council Naro, you have a question?

▶ 1:22:53 Cal Finocchiaro: Yes. Um, is there, this is for National Grid, is there any other solution to this? I mean, clearly this doesn't sound like it's working for the, the residents there that they're gonna direct. It's directly impacting, um, the way that the existing pole is now the one that's sagging. I mean, how long did it take for it to get like that? And um, is there any way to support the existing pole that's there without adding another pole across the street?

▶ 1:23:21 Speaker 4: Um, I would How long it

▶ 1:23:23 Speaker 7: Takes again, to stay. Could you speak into the Microphone? Yeah, why don't rest us. Please.

▶ 1:23:28 Bradley Freeman: Do you want to get up? If you're both done with your comments, we can have. If you're, if you have anything else to offer, please do so.

▶ 1:23:33 Speaker 1: Uh, the only other thing I'd say is that if you do that guy wire that it's so narrow and those sidewalks freeze constantly. It's a safety issue. I I don't even have enough room. People are gonna be falling and hitting their heads on that metal wire. It, it is just not an acceptable option, nevermind the fact that it's devaluing my property in his property. And the only other thing I wanna say is if you put a new pole and, and not double up that pole, I would think that new pole being straight would hold. It's going in three different directions down East Highland, down the other end of Heselton. And my, in my end of Heselton, it's a three way directional pole. And that's why they don't really want to address it. I think it's a pain. I can, I understand that, but if they put a new pole there and it's properly supported, I think it would be self-supporting by itself. That pole is defective and over the years it's just gone dried out and it's gone, pulled the way towards East Island. So I think one pole is a solution to cut and then systematically cut over every utility onto that new pole. I know it's time and money to do that and there's a bazillion utilities on that pole, but you gotta do it. There's fire alarm on that pole. There's all the data, all the power, it's all gonna get cut over one at a time. That's the solution. I think My last comment is just, I would appreciate at the end of all of this, like every time cities or national grid, when they do this, they just spray paint everywhere. It, it looks disgraceful. Mm. And it it's embarrassing and it, it devalues our property. Mm-hmm. And my friend here won't say this is actually his business. Right. He, he's a mechanical engineer who works in this industry, knows what he's talking about. And I'm gonna just say that for him to validity on what he says. And then only thing I'll say is, how do you say this pole is gonna fall again when every other pole in the city is upright? Why, why is this one pole can't stay up but every other pole stays up straight? It, it just makes no sense. You're gonna hurt a child If you're not putting a step pole next to it. If you're truly putting a brand new pole in and then cutting all the utilities over, then take the old pole out. That should be fine. That's, that's my argument.

▶ 1:25:50 Speaker 6: Thank you. Thank you very much.

▶ 1:26:02 Bradley Freeman: All right. Council for nu a question then. Council Mki?

▶ 1:26:06 Cal Finocchiaro: Yes. Thank you. So I, I I know I had asked that but I'll I'll reiterate it. It's, um, I'm basically asking if there's a way to install a new pole and secure it in a way so that we don't have to add an additional pole across the street. Um,

▶ 1:26:19 Speaker 11: Definitely adding a new pole will, will mean that, you know, it's not leaning right away. Um, I think the only other way is like regular maintenance in that case, if you, if we don't wanna have a step pole on the opposite end.

▶ 1:26:33 Cal Finocchiaro: So, I'm sorry, could you, could you say that a little bit louder? I

▶ 1:26:36 Speaker 11: Couldn't hear you. Um, so I think the only way would be like regularly maintaining the pole and case cleans. Again, I think that's the only way out. Okay. If we don't want to stop pole.

▶ 1:26:46 Cal Finocchiaro: Do you know, sorry, my second part of my question before that I'm just remembering is do you know how long it took that pole to lean? If

▶ 1:26:54 Speaker 12: So, so thank God the pole hasn't fall right now, but who, who, who can know if in a, in a, in in the next storm may fall? So like, usually like, like the National grid standard, it says like an, uh, a pole that is older that was installed like before 1975 should be replaced. Mm-hmm. Not only like, because my fault also, like for the new standards, probably this, this is an old pole is not too high and probably needs to get bigger. Mm-hmm. But the real issue and the safety issue will be like, we don't know when it my fault. So that will be like even like a riskier or uh, a bigger safety issue because it will be like energized wires on the on, on the ground and national agree in that case will be responsible. It is. And it is like a life, it's not only like the value of the asset that I I agree what they just mentioned, and I appreciate that they come here because usually sometimes no old resident came and expressed their, their opinion. Mm-hmm. I, that's something value, however it is in this case, it's a safety issue. And I feel that the, the, the priority is the safety of the, the people, then the safety of our assets. So that's the reason. And obviously we don't need that. This has to be approved. This is not for the, like an next project, but this is a safety concern that we can definitely take it back, look something new, we can replace it like a new pole. Obviously it can be, it's not gonna be like a double pole. We can do it what we call like, uh, the same hole couldn't kick. And like, like the eng like the engineer here mentioned. Yeah, it's gonna take some time when all the facilities gonna be transferring into, into the new pole. Mm-hmm. But definitely we need like a new pole mm-hmm. To, to tie it. And obviously the, in the, in the sidewalk, the sidewalk fixture is like what we call like an extra guide that is kind of like, like a big metal bar. And obviously with, with the city engineer, we, we make sure that at least like it has the minimum requirement for, for like a wheelchair mm-hmm. That anyone can pass through without a problem because that's is not, that would be like something that is not possible to do it compiling the standards and also responding about the the painting Yeah. Is it's ugly, but we need to that for Dig Safe. It's the only way that Dig Safe can check and, and authorize us before any digging. So that's the reason that also we paint in the streets in oil utilities also. Any, any people that ma must dig. Okay.

▶ 1:29:54 Cal Finocchiaro: I, um, I mean I know you're representatives of National Grid. Yes. Like you created these plans and we appreciate you coming in front of us all the time. Um, I would feel more comfortable approving this if, if it was just that one poll that was larger and stronger in that spot. Um, I feel like usually when you have residents come in here with strong opinions, I, that's important to me. I'd like to see what the rest of the counselors say, but um, that's kind of what my input

▶ 1:30:21 Bradley Freeman: We have, uh, councilor Reky next, followed by Chen Koal and Williams.

▶ 1:30:25 Speaker 1: Yeah. I just, uh, I agree with Councilor Ro uh, and the context of safety. Uh, if it's that much of a safety concern, uh, shouldn't we just completely replace the pole with a stronger pole?

▶ 1:30:37 Speaker 12: Yes. That that's something that we gonna be done, we gonna be doing. So that's the easy way to do it, just to replace the pole. But in our opinion, in our experience, definitely it's going, it's gonna happen the same thing in the future.

▶ 1:30:52 Speaker 1: What, what? So why, why do we think it'll happen again if it's not happening elsewhere? Can I just add something? Yes. Ly um, just speaking on behalf of physics, the reason this pole is leaning and not every other pole in the city is 'cause a lot of 'em have counteracting forces. This one is on the corner and all wires are pulling it in one direction. Right. Which is why the stub pole across the street is to counteract that force. So that's why National Grid believes that over time, because the force is pulling that pole in one direction, over time it will start to lean again. Could you use a, so could you use a different style pole that's stronger? That's a national good question. I'm not sure.

▶ 1:31:31 Speaker 12: I'm say that's something that, eh, but it has to be solved with another pole. So

▶ 1:31:36 Speaker 1: It'll have to be what It has

▶ 1:31:37 Speaker 12: to be solved also with another pole. So like,

▶ 1:31:40 Speaker 1: So you're saying there's no way around the one pole.

▶ 1:31:43 Speaker 12: Only one pole. So like I say, I, I would like, because all the opinions we can check it back and we can try to find another option and we're gonna bring it again. So that's something that we definitely can do. Yeah,

▶ 1:31:56 Speaker 1: I think would appreciate that

▶ 1:31:59 Bradley Freeman: There. Councilor Chen, My questions are answered. Councilor Al, my questions are answered. Councillor Williams.

▶ 1:32:10 Ryan Williams: Thanks. Um, the only thing I wanted to add that was said before by the, by the folks is that this, you know, I'm, I'm not a huge fan of the, um, the guy in the sidewalk, right? And we have one on Bitton Street where I'm at. And it does create, even with the minimum widths, it creates sort of a pinch point for people that are crossing two by two, you know, one by one, side by side, whatever. Um, so I don't love that. I wish that the fence in that house wasn't right up to the curb like that, but it's a side, it's a corner lot, so they're allowed to do it. Um, and I guess I would suggest maybe getting creative, although a little more expensive with relieving some of that lateral tension up hesseltine if possible. Um, so that you only have two directional poles on that pole and you have something that's more anchored, taking some of the stress off. Um, because I, I don't think under any circumstances I would be in favor of a, of a, of a guy overhead butting right up on a fence that comes all the way up to the edge of the sidewalk. 'cause it's gonna have to go on the sidewalk. You can't, you don't have access to the yard, which is unfortunate, but, um, you know, it is what it is.

▶ 1:33:13 Speaker 6: Councilor Vandiver,

▶ 1:33:15 Kimberly Vandiver: Thank you. Yeah, I was just, when you were commenting about, um, you know, it's lucky that the poll hasn't come down entirely. It could go down in the next storm. It, it sounded to me like you were talking not just about the current poll, but if we did this in the future with only one pole, that it would also be dicey because it, because it wouldn't have enough support. Was I understanding that correctly, that you think it would be a safety risk to put in a single pole?

▶ 1:33:43 Speaker 12: So it depends of, of many things. In this case, this was like a, what we call like a safety catch. So sometimes there are like poles that are already leaning somebody, hey, this pole must be replaced. Or also like with other poles we found, like when we are doing like jobs or designing new projects, we definitely check, oh, this is an old pole even, it's not like this directly involved, we should replace this pole. So in this case, because it was found that it's already leaning and we know that it's an old pole, so we just want to be sure that it can, it, it's not gonna fall in, in, in a, in a, in a storm.

▶ 1:34:23 Kimberly Vandiver: Okay, great. And are there, I, I assume there might be some standard guidelines as well as far as number of connections, amount of force, amount of distance. Is this is what you're proposing right now? Is it the standard or is it one of several options that would all work according to the normal standards you use?

▶ 1:34:41 Speaker 12: So usually, for example, I say it is something about like mechanical forces. So the common sense say that if we have like more than three forces in a in a point, it's not gonna move. We, we think that it's okay. But in this case when we have like two, so the sum atory of those forces is like where the post gonna be leaning. So we need to add an extra one to supporting these guys. Is the, the, the guy, the still the still guy. So there are other options for example, like on a stop pole, but it's the same. It's like a big metal deep foundation pole.

▶ 1:35:23 Speaker 12: And so, so, but probably, I don't know, may people might say that it's not, it's pretty, it's prettier or not, it depends of personal taste. But yeah, what

▶ 1:35:39 Speaker 11: You say, I mean, the issue here is that again, even the stop pole would still be in front of for Glendale, um, exactly property. So even a stop pole, a metal stop pole would not work whether it's metal or wood. We still have the issue that there is a pole in front of the four grand left property.

▶ 1:35:56 Kimberly Vandiver: Sorry, could, could you repeat that please?

▶ 1:35:58 Speaker 11: Um, so like my colleague was saying about metal stop poles, but essentially it's still a pole and uh, that would still be near the driveway like around four feet away from the driveway of four Glendale, um, which, um, the property owner would not be happy with. So even like whether it's a stop, uh, a metal or a wood stop pole, it's, it's the same look, um, except that the metal one would not have the sidewalk anchor, but it would, you'll still have the poll there. Yeah.

▶ 1:36:31 Kimberly Vandiver: Okay. Yeah, I, I guess, uh, just, uh, I certainly do think we should be responsive when we can to the way to people's preferences for their neighborhoods. Um, it sounds to me like this is a reasonable solution and I personally, I I, I feel in favor of it, but I I'm also all for, you know, making sure that we've presented all possible options. Seen if, if there are alternatives that would work better for them. But I, you know, I I think safety as far as a pool coming down is, is important. And I, I also would wonder, I, you know, I know there's some concerns about safety as far as packing a car out and things like that. I wonder if there's some other creative solutions as far as, um, you know, the rounded mirrors, lowering a fence, changing a curb cut. I mean, I, I just wonder if there are other things we could offer to think about that part of the problem too. Not necessarily National Grid, but I wonder if there's some things that could, that could solve that part of the problem, um, once this happens. Because it, it seems like this will come back and some version of this may need to go in. So that, that's all I have. Thank you. Thank you.

▶ 1:37:40 Bradley Freeman: Councilor Park, followed by Councilor Williams and fro.

▶ 1:37:43 Speaker 1: Thank you. Um, just a, a a a, a quick point and a question. Um, so like, like my fellow council, Ryan, I, I actually do not like, uh, anchors into the sidewalk. IFI find that they, they're a barrier and kids will actually not use the sidewalk altogether simply because they just find it to be intimidating when they're riding their bikes or scooters and they just creating a more danger than, than just simply having something else there. Um, so I would urge you to as feedback to go back and see if you can avoid that anchor in the sidewalk. Uh, the second point, our question I had was, uh, a hypothetical if, if this pole, this existing pole, let's say, went down in the next storm as you, as you, as you alluded, what, what is the protocol at that point? How do you fix the poll?

▶ 1:38:37 Speaker 12: So probably they will do that, what we are doing right now, but just as bill, like for emergency. So they will do it like without asking it. It's an Emergency, Right? Because it's an emergency, so they need to solve it. Like, so the, probably they will do what we are proposing right now.

▶ 1:38:52 Speaker 1: I see. So, okay. So, so they would need per, uh, a permission or, or the feedback for the council?

▶ 1:38:58 Speaker 12: Not probably. I don't know if they gonna be doing like, maybe, maybe then we can formalize the, the petition and getting the grant of vacation of that pole. But probably in an emergency they, they would like obviously to replace the pole that fold with a bigger pole and probably like adding a new pole if they think that they need it in on field.

▶ 1:39:18 Speaker 1: Okay. Thank you. Council Williams?

▶ 1:39:21 Ryan Williams: Um, my friends at National Grid. You have come before us many times and we have approved a lot of polls and we've had some that were a little, you know, yeah. Questions. Um, so I want to ask you, how long do you think it would take you to present alternative designs in this? Would it take you a couple of weeks? Would it take you a few days?

▶ 1:39:37 Speaker 12: Yeah. How much do you think?

▶ 1:39:39 Speaker 11: I think a couple of weeks. Couple of weeks. But it also depends if we actually find the solution or whether we just decide to replace the poll in place where it is. Sure.

▶ 1:39:50 Ryan Williams: Would February 23rd be enough time, you think?

▶ 1:39:55 Speaker 11: Sure. Yes. Okay.

▶ 1:39:56 Ryan Williams: So what I would suggest is pursuant to rule 64, I think, I think it's 64, um, yeah, 64 because we don't have enough information and it sounds like people are split opinions. I would make a motion to postpone this hearing to February 23rd, 2026 at the city council meeting to be reconvened, discuss the options and make a decision one way or the other. Second. Second. Okay.

▶ 1:40:21 Bradley Freeman: There is a motion on the floor to postpone to February 23rd pursuant to Rule 64, made by Councilor Williams, seconded by Council Romanul. Any discussion? All in favor? Aye. Any opposed? The motion is approved and postpone to February 23rd. Thank

▶ 1:40:40 Speaker 12: You Guys.

▶ 1:40:40 Speaker 1: Thank you. So can I ask something?

▶ 1:40:45 Speaker 3: So one thing I'm trying to your attention, I'm out

▶ 1:40:50 Speaker 1: and I obviously very passionate about this,

▶ 1:40:54 Bradley Freeman: So I don't Know. We'll, we'll we'll be sure to communicate with you beforehand and make, give you options to weigh in on the design prior to the hearing. In fact, I got this a week ago.

▶ 1:41:01 Speaker 1: My neighbor who this also impacts is in Aruba and he hasn't even been home since this

▶ 1:41:06 Bradley Freeman: Was brought. Thank, thank you. We'll, we'll, we'll be sure to communicate one on we're we're in a close the public hearing right now, but I will, we will be sure to communicate with you.

▶ 1:41:16 Speaker 1: My last comment, sir, I've lived there 18 years and my neighbors lived there longer. We both want the pole replaced. There's no disagreement about that. He's been asking for this for I at least 10 years and we have emails back where National Grid redirected him to Verizon. No one's taken this on and now all of a sudden we're gonna like just rush into it. And I have to disagree with you. Like, I cannot see around that fence. I a child is gonna get hurt, sir. And I agree with your point. People are not gonna

▶ 1:41:50 Bradley Freeman: Walk. We, we appreciate your comments and we'll be sure to communicate with you prior to the 23rd. Okay? Thank you very much. Thank you. I'll now move by Unanim Unanim consent to close the public hearing. Seeing no objection, the public hearing is closed. We'll move back to our full counsel agenda.